Estimates put the number of unpaid interns every year between 500,000 and one million. So, in a country where working for free is mostly illegal, a student population somewhere between the size of Tucson and Dallas will be working for free, in plain view. — theatlantic.com
25 Comments
ARGH!!!!
ARGHARGharghharghargharghhRRRRR. Pay people for fuckssake!
And that's as articulate as I can be on it right now.
Donna. I could not agree with you more.
Additionally, I am begging other young graduates, like myself....
Please please please PLEASE, don't devalue yourself. Don't go somewhere and work unpaid. It may take a while to find a job. It did for me, but there are many other ways to get involved without being an unpaid intern.
By working for free you are devaluing the profession and helping the employers' bottom line. For every action there's a reaction.
argh indeed. although i'll point out everyone's getting squeezed. we have been invited to do a competition for a house, for which the winner would be paid a small sum. however, they also wanted to stipulate a pre-determined 5% total fee upfront, including all engineering and full CA. the total construction budget? 300k. do the math. oh, and they wanted to take the competition prize money out of that fee, but also to have 2 more rounds of SD.
yup. these are the times....
all that is simply to say, there are days where i understand why free labor can be so enticing. it's not always about 20M projects needing free labor...
Gregory, that is crazy. Sorry to hear that. I have been doing small projects for peanuts too, but at least they are my projects. Working for someone else for free is bullllsssshhhiiitttt.
This profession will never get better as long as this "internship" IDP shit remains.
By working for free you are devaluing the profession and helping the employers' bottom line.
This is true, but! Possibly more significantly you're helping the bottom line of the client, who is likely someone (developer? government?) who can afford the money that is not being paid to the client.
America is supposed to be a free market democracy. If people want to work for free (and many do choose this) then they should be allowed to.
There's nothing unethical about it. And it will not destroy the profession any more than anything else will.
Handsum, are you saying there's nothing unethical about working for free, or about not paying for work?
A registered business not paying people for work, except under very strictly defined circumstances, is illegal AND unethical. Once you enjoy the benefits of being a legal business entity you have to suck it up and accept the requirements, too.
From the intern's point of view: maybe their personal circumstances mean that they can afford to not get paid, and if so good for them. There's nothing unethical about doing something without getting remuneration. But: I can have a business transaction, say with a store, that is on the face legal and ethical. But if the store is getting its goods via illegal slave labor - children in a developing country, for example - the transaction itself isn't ethical AND is contributing to a vastly less ethical world than most of us want to live in, right?
Every choice we make has consequences. Every rich intern that works for free means the equally talented but poor intern next to them can't get paid AND the field of architecture as a whole is devalued and can't charge fair market rates for work. That's contributing to a culture that's bad for all of us.
And you forgot to say it so I'll say it for you: yo.
Gregory,
That is unfortunate ... I would almost have to say "don't do it" as it seems like this competition you speak of is part of the culture and the problem.
jai-x: " This profession will never get better as long as this "internship" IDP shit remains".... I keep hearing this EVERYWHERE in this forum ... does no one want to put in their dues anymore and just expects to be an architect upon graduation? or is it that there are no jobs so getting hours and experience are impossible? I know things are bad, IDP has to come up with someway to not keep people in Intern Servitude forever, but there has to be some threshold for the profession besides just reading some books and taking some tests ...I know the learning curve for everyone is different, but 6-8 years of full time work seems to be a reasonable time to me before you truly can have enough experience to practice as an independent architect. As far as I know IDP is still at 3.
Ryan, perhaps this is a special case but your statement "6-8 years of full time work seems to be a reasonable time to me before truly can have enough experience" falls flat with me. When I was working with a multi-disciplinary firm in Beijing (where I was paid peanuts as an intern coming straight out of school) I was often the most technologically savvy and also design forward person on a project team. My experience there was generally helping these mid to late career architects / landscape architects with understanding / applying modern design trends / technologies and also helping with computer work (sketchup, illustrator, etc.)
I think there is a real disconnect in the arch / land arch profession between paying for experience and paying for skills. Quite simply, regardless of age or experience you should always be paid for the skills and work you bring to the team. Ageism seems to be a real problem and rather than firms unfairly using young talents wouldn't they rather utilize and mold their talents and also reward them as a result in order to keep them around? Idealism of youth...
I agree with drewfur
here in the EU when you graduate with a diplom (and no debt) you are licensed (some countries you only need 2 years experience, fill out some papers and you are an architect). Therefore you can already have your own practice when young. Sometimes I think this ageism culture in North America is only around to keep the young down, make them believe they useless in order to keep the class system in tact. This free internship BS also supports the current class system to remain as it is.
Imagine what a threat it is if a poor young architect fresh out of school wins a Europan and the project gets built?
This free internship BS is disgusting and I think young architects are better off either getting a paid placement for the summer (while in school). If they cannot get a job when done school (or during the summers) just do some competitions on your own....not for someone else
Ryan, IDP is a useless system. First of all, IDP requires a job. People are not hiring "interns" because there are plenty of experianced people out there who are applying for the same jobs. If you have the money and mobility to relocate wherever the work is (and work for free or peanuts) then you can most likely find an entry level position in NY or CA, if not, then you are pretty much fucked. Many graduates just cannot move around for a job that may not be permanant. Some of us have families, debt, houses, etc... IDP favors those in such privilaged positions.
IDP is a ridgid system and does not allow for alternative paths. It does not produce better architects either. Look at the shit architecture in this country. In most of the european countries that archinet speaks of, the architecture is much much better despite the lax regulations.
I agree with archinet! The current internship system in the US is designed to keep the young people out. If we had control over our own careers then we would not be complaining.
Paid internships promote good work and guarantee better end results. Incentive people ! As simple as that !
finally, HANDSUM $$ lets slip the secret of the free-marketeers; free market = you either work for free, or suffer the indignity of begging for table scraps. idiot.
If you are for the "free market" then you should support a more inclusive and autonomous path to licensure. There is no real free market without diverse competitors. Let everyone play the game and the most capable will prevail. Most so called free market advocates really want a monopoly where competition is limited. If you truley believe in the free market then ability and talent will equate to success and the practice of architecture will be self regulating.
Who needs pay? I have been living on a diet of trace paper that my office generously provides.
Yeah, I agree w/ Donna: Don't Do it. If you can afford to work for free, then you are pursuing a Hobby & should just keep your Arch experience in your own (or Daddy's) Ivory Tower. If Archts want to be taken seriously, then we don't need to give our only assets (our abilities) away.
If you can't get a job that pays (& many of us can't right now), then go build something for yourself out of whatever you can scrounge - then take some compellin' photos & put 'em on on of them free Portfolio sites.
If we move to abolish the free work of the intern, shouldn't we also refuse to participate in any more competitions?
Granted, some competitions are 'paid' and others 'invited'. However I've never seen a competition in which the competing firms did not go above and beyond the financial limitations, often putting in tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars of essentially free intellectual property.
There's a running theme in this profession which essentially amounts to this: If we as an architectural community continue to devalue the worth of our services, how on earth can we expect clients to not do the same?
I apologize in advance, but this is just how ludicrous the whole concept of competitions appears to me:
'A Competition for Architectural Services:
This is a competition for clients to potentially achieve a work of architecture. Of course, this work may be built or not, and may be a work of genious or mediocrity. Each client will pay my firm eight weeks worth of salary and benefits for a team consisting of two architects, four designers and two assistants. My firm will then own all salaries and all benefits. The client with the best salaries and best benefits will then win the competition. The prize will be a few half assed ideas, a set of drawings that are incoherent and unbuildable and a nebulous and vague contract.'
yeah but competitions do not violate any laws, free labor does.
Preaching to the choir ...
doesn't matter, i've been proselytized. I really think you need some dues peeps, 6-8 years, to give the community some real experience. If you think you've got it before that, good for you ... but I will doubt it. I don't care if you have techy savy ... you need this much time to figure out the profession and how to really put a building together.
Great article, glad someone said it.
DOnt even get me started on unpaid overtime!
MY Soapbox. I think they are called "SCABS" by those who are committed members of the Labor Force.
What I did: I was paid $40/day + Tips as a waitress in a dive Italian joint. I wore tight pants and tight T-shirts. I afforded a minimum-existence. I was NOT going to put up with an Arrogant Architect suffering the egoistic "FLW-Syndrome".
Why Free Draft-Monkeys Make Sense: In America, the Design stage can sometimes be unpaid. There is little respect for Architectural Design Service and lack of awareness of what beautiful construction documentation can do for a project. Few American Contractors even know about it, but some do. Architectural designers DEAL products most of the time, taking cuts for specifying things (maybe). The INVENTION of detail is virtually dead. The canonical architectural design drawing is Intellectual Capital specifically for a single project, in the ideal case; it is not a automated BIM/lego land that is thoughtless. And for crying out loud to those of you who are working in Architectural offices... READ & REVIEW what you're issuing in the SPECIFICATIONS & SCHEDULES? If you don't understand it get off your highhorse and get another job: SLUTS! Americans are sluts for status and commerce, that's why it makes sense.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.