This is more of a venting of frustration post then anything else. Therefore, be warned. Feel free to discuss your issues with salary, employment or job conditions. Or just drop a reply about what you think.
I am an Associate Architect working at an architecture and construction firm somewhere in South East Asia (in a developing country I am not going to mention which one). I have been working at the same firm for about two and a half years. My starting salary was US$206 per month and no we are not paid in US$. Believe it or not this is the average starting salary here.
Anyway after about 2.5 yrs later my salary has been raised to only US$258 per month. Its pathetic. As a student I thought that a B. Arch was like nothing else, it would lead to a high paying job or professionalism that is unmatched in any other career. The reality is it doesn't work like that here. The highest paid jobs here are managers in banking and telecoms sector. Office hours are 8 hours per day but you don't get paid for overtime and overtimes are almost regular. The company only pays good salaries to a select few namely an accountant and a site engineer on whom a lot of the management depends on directly.
Not to mention a colleague of mine, he is also an associate architect who just got an MS in Sustainable Design from UK. His salary after rejoining was US$357. Its not good either, but unfortunately the guy doesn't even know how to draw cad drawings properly and doesn't even show a hint of sustainable design influence in his designs. He struggles with a computer can't work in 3d and what not.
Then there is the issue of the directors of the company who are architects from the institution of choice here in this country, even thought the standard of education is not different than in any other universities here. They don't trust us Associates to decide independently yet they complain that we don't take direct control of a project. They won't let us design freely without intervening in everything, they won't let us choose colors, materials no nothing goes through without them modifying it, even if our designs were better they change it just for the sake of changing it.
The salary issues is still not being fixed even after bringing this to the attention of the Professional Architectural Institution. They are still conducting surveys. Some firms have taken control of the situation and have decided to implement a better pay scale and kudos to those who are lucky enough to work there. But these firms are only a few about 3-5.
There is a lot more topics to complain about from freelancing due to low salary, to no implementation of BIM throughout the industry, we still design the ancient A CAD way. Then there is the issues of how engineers here design more buildings than architects even know of because the public is so uneducated about the existence of this profession. Surprisingly those who do know about architecture here know very well how this country has had its successes in the past and how we do produce good designers who win awards.
I could go on but that would exceed the scope of this post. So, what do you think of this situation. Do you face similar difficulties. Are you better off? Through me a lifeline and I might just take up on it and decide to immigrate to your country. I am tired and am I underpaid?
258 dollars a month? So you mean roughly $1.49 an hour?
You refuse to name your country so I am unsure of the living expenses you may face. Are you really able to survive, let alone enjoy living, with 1.49 an hour? It does seem very sad. I would save up for one-way ticket out to a developed country and I wouldn't think twice about it.
Assuming starting salary at $3,750/Mo ($45k a year) in New York City, assuming $1500/Mo Rent, your rent to salary ratio is 0.4. If it is lower than that you are being underpaid by New York standards.
I don't know what country you're working in but you could practice architecture without any education in many asian countries. xD Why not start your own firm? I think its much easier to do that there than in a western country.
what does rent cost you? groceries, etc ? I wouldn't complain about your pay..because your not getting paid - you're working for free. That is, unless you live in some back-in-time economy where gas is 9 cents a gallon and you can buy a house for $6k. In 1900 in the US; a new home cost $5k on average. So perhaps you are in a time warp stuck in 1900 or so.
i do find this funny that you said: "As a student I thought that a B. Arch was like nothing else, it would lead to a high paying job or professionalism that is unmatched in any other career" .. . that was funny lol.
If PM's are so competent, then PROVE IT! Don't sit around and do nothing! Get licensed! I'm sick of people not putting their money where their mouth is!
This question is impossible to answer without a point of reference to understand the cost of living in the country you're in. By American standards this would be a horrifying if not impossible salary to live on. But for all I know it could be the average in your country relative to the cost of living. It's always misleading to judge salaries in developing countries by the US Dollar when it's out of context.
regardless of the relative pay at his location and economy... the OP has to consider that it would take several lifetimes to save any real money or pay off any student debt if he/she intends of moving back to the UK (where I assume where the B.Arch degree was earned).
He/she is earning what young architects in the US and I assume UK basically earn in a single day... 2.5 years of essentially working for free can really set you back ... and I'm not one to believe in 'free learning experience internships'... a bogus concept and dentrimental to any profession on so many levels. Get a one-way ticket out of there!
Okay time for some perspective. I live in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Rent here is roughly $0.2 per sft, which means you pay $245 a month for 1200sft 3/2 bed apartment. Which is why people who do decide to pay rent do so in groups often times like students living together in a single apartment. I am lucky enough to live at my dad's place, at the same time its discomforting that I haven't been able to move out.
I actually did my B. Arch locally, it costs roughly $10, 000 at a private university (much cheaper at public institutions). So mostly the well off can afford this degree.
Some of my batch mates have done a little better with salaries near $350. But its no use, the expenditures are extreme, starting from membership fee for the professional institute of architects, to paying for their new building funds, to paying for mandatory courses for professional courses. Then there is the horrendously overcrowded (50,001 people per square mile) public transport system which in itself needs roads to ride on being built as we speak, my office is 9 km from my home and the only other transport alternatives are all expensive. Fortunately a lot people here have private sedans.
The sad truth is Managers, Businessmen, Telecoms officials, Bankers and Medical practitioners here fare far better, even University faculties earn $1000 a month but you have to have years of experience, experience you can't have because no one is willing to hire an inexperienced freshmen. But architects have no such luck I can think of a handful of architects that earn a good living they account for the well off firms, the well established and politically well connected firms, doing business since the beginning. There is no chance here as a new player.
The general public sees design and planing as a free service. If you don't build it you don't get paid. And you don't get commissioned to build it if you don't pay some percentage back to them. Stealing your designs are commonplace here. Therefore we have learned to forgo printing and file sharing. We simply show our development designs to clients on a laptop until we get paid.
Funny thing about the internet and how I came to be here is that internet here is somewhat cheap. You can get a 1mpbs unlimited fiber connection for $18 a month. I can afford this because my work day doesn't end after 8 hrs of office work. I still have to do freelance design and visualizations to pay for my net and electronics.
A lot of young architects are in fact looking towards their own firms, as am I but first you must work for 2 yrs for free pay. And then comes the over saturated market. Architecture is only practiced in one city Dhaka and roughly nowhere else. With five or more registered universities churning out architects. There are more firms then there are designed buildings.
The situation here is hopeless for architects. I will get burned for this post if someone from my office recognizes me. However I am hopeful for the future as I got my admission to Master of Construction Project Management in Australia. I hope to never come back.
Firestreak, leave immediately if you can. I make more in Canada in one normal day than you do in a month. Complete a competent master's program, build an intelligent portfolio and move to a location with labour laws and/or basic worker rights.
send me your portfolio. We are looking for qualified freelancer to do our architectural design projects. I believe our pay is much much better than your current job.
there ya go firestreakz... Bangladesh wont pay you for design and pay you a measly $200+ dollars a month but Shirley will pay you for your design services and a lot more than your current pay... if you're any good
freelancing is the key for you ^^
May 28, 14 11:18 am ·
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Am I being underpaid as an Associate Architect with a professional B. Arch degree?
This is more of a venting of frustration post then anything else. Therefore, be warned. Feel free to discuss your issues with salary, employment or job conditions. Or just drop a reply about what you think.
I am an Associate Architect working at an architecture and construction firm somewhere in South East Asia (in a developing country I am not going to mention which one). I have been working at the same firm for about two and a half years. My starting salary was US$206 per month and no we are not paid in US$. Believe it or not this is the average starting salary here.
Anyway after about 2.5 yrs later my salary has been raised to only US$258 per month. Its pathetic. As a student I thought that a B. Arch was like nothing else, it would lead to a high paying job or professionalism that is unmatched in any other career. The reality is it doesn't work like that here. The highest paid jobs here are managers in banking and telecoms sector. Office hours are 8 hours per day but you don't get paid for overtime and overtimes are almost regular. The company only pays good salaries to a select few namely an accountant and a site engineer on whom a lot of the management depends on directly.
Not to mention a colleague of mine, he is also an associate architect who just got an MS in Sustainable Design from UK. His salary after rejoining was US$357. Its not good either, but unfortunately the guy doesn't even know how to draw cad drawings properly and doesn't even show a hint of sustainable design influence in his designs. He struggles with a computer can't work in 3d and what not.
Then there is the issue of the directors of the company who are architects from the institution of choice here in this country, even thought the standard of education is not different than in any other universities here. They don't trust us Associates to decide independently yet they complain that we don't take direct control of a project. They won't let us design freely without intervening in everything, they won't let us choose colors, materials no nothing goes through without them modifying it, even if our designs were better they change it just for the sake of changing it.
The salary issues is still not being fixed even after bringing this to the attention of the Professional Architectural Institution. They are still conducting surveys. Some firms have taken control of the situation and have decided to implement a better pay scale and kudos to those who are lucky enough to work there. But these firms are only a few about 3-5.
There is a lot more topics to complain about from freelancing due to low salary, to no implementation of BIM throughout the industry, we still design the ancient A CAD way. Then there is the issues of how engineers here design more buildings than architects even know of because the public is so uneducated about the existence of this profession. Surprisingly those who do know about architecture here know very well how this country has had its successes in the past and how we do produce good designers who win awards.
I could go on but that would exceed the scope of this post. So, what do you think of this situation. Do you face similar difficulties. Are you better off? Through me a lifeline and I might just take up on it and decide to immigrate to your country. I am tired and am I underpaid?
258 dollars a month? So you mean roughly $1.49 an hour?
You refuse to name your country so I am unsure of the living expenses you may face. Are you really able to survive, let alone enjoy living, with 1.49 an hour? It does seem very sad. I would save up for one-way ticket out to a developed country and I wouldn't think twice about it.
Assuming starting salary at $3,750/Mo ($45k a year) in New York City, assuming $1500/Mo Rent, your rent to salary ratio is 0.4. If it is lower than that you are being underpaid by New York standards.
how can you afford an internet connection let alone a useful device to post a question to this forum at such a low pay?
Move as far away from whatever country you live in, I am sure there are places that will pay you at least $3/hour.
I don't know what country you're working in but you could practice architecture without any education in many asian countries. xD Why not start your own firm? I think its much easier to do that there than in a western country.
what does rent cost you? groceries, etc ? I wouldn't complain about your pay..because your not getting paid - you're working for free. That is, unless you live in some back-in-time economy where gas is 9 cents a gallon and you can buy a house for $6k. In 1900 in the US; a new home cost $5k on average. So perhaps you are in a time warp stuck in 1900 or so.
i do find this funny that you said: "As a student I thought that a B. Arch was like nothing else, it would lead to a high paying job or professionalism that is unmatched in any other career" .. . that was funny lol.
maybe in Vietnam? I know the cost of living is pretty low there but even so probably not low enough to live off of those wages.
You can literally make more money jerking off in the US. Sperm banks pay like 50$ a load. lol
If PM's are so competent, then PROVE IT! Don't sit around and do nothing! Get licensed! I'm sick of people not putting their money where their mouth is!
sperm banks? xDDD how come i didn't know about these .. I'd be a millionaire by now
This question is impossible to answer without a point of reference to understand the cost of living in the country you're in. By American standards this would be a horrifying if not impossible salary to live on. But for all I know it could be the average in your country relative to the cost of living. It's always misleading to judge salaries in developing countries by the US Dollar when it's out of context.
Im quite sure he is working in my country, Indonesia.. my opinion is, get out from that country as soon as possible.
regardless of the relative pay at his location and economy... the OP has to consider that it would take several lifetimes to save any real money or pay off any student debt if he/she intends of moving back to the UK (where I assume where the B.Arch degree was earned).
He/she is earning what young architects in the US and I assume UK basically earn in a single day... 2.5 years of essentially working for free can really set you back ... and I'm not one to believe in 'free learning experience internships'... a bogus concept and dentrimental to any profession on so many levels. Get a one-way ticket out of there!
Okay time for some perspective. I live in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Rent here is roughly $0.2 per sft, which means you pay $245 a month for 1200sft 3/2 bed apartment. Which is why people who do decide to pay rent do so in groups often times like students living together in a single apartment. I am lucky enough to live at my dad's place, at the same time its discomforting that I haven't been able to move out.
I actually did my B. Arch locally, it costs roughly $10, 000 at a private university (much cheaper at public institutions). So mostly the well off can afford this degree.
Some of my batch mates have done a little better with salaries near $350. But its no use, the expenditures are extreme, starting from membership fee for the professional institute of architects, to paying for their new building funds, to paying for mandatory courses for professional courses. Then there is the horrendously overcrowded (50,001 people per square mile) public transport system which in itself needs roads to ride on being built as we speak, my office is 9 km from my home and the only other transport alternatives are all expensive. Fortunately a lot people here have private sedans.
The sad truth is Managers, Businessmen, Telecoms officials, Bankers and Medical practitioners here fare far better, even University faculties earn $1000 a month but you have to have years of experience, experience you can't have because no one is willing to hire an inexperienced freshmen. But architects have no such luck I can think of a handful of architects that earn a good living they account for the well off firms, the well established and politically well connected firms, doing business since the beginning. There is no chance here as a new player.
The general public sees design and planing as a free service. If you don't build it you don't get paid. And you don't get commissioned to build it if you don't pay some percentage back to them. Stealing your designs are commonplace here. Therefore we have learned to forgo printing and file sharing. We simply show our development designs to clients on a laptop until we get paid.
Funny thing about the internet and how I came to be here is that internet here is somewhat cheap. You can get a 1mpbs unlimited fiber connection for $18 a month. I can afford this because my work day doesn't end after 8 hrs of office work. I still have to do freelance design and visualizations to pay for my net and electronics.
A lot of young architects are in fact looking towards their own firms, as am I but first you must work for 2 yrs for free pay. And then comes the over saturated market. Architecture is only practiced in one city Dhaka and roughly nowhere else. With five or more registered universities churning out architects. There are more firms then there are designed buildings.
The situation here is hopeless for architects. I will get burned for this post if someone from my office recognizes me. However I am hopeful for the future as I got my admission to Master of Construction Project Management in Australia. I hope to never come back.
Firestreak, leave immediately if you can. I make more in Canada in one normal day than you do in a month. Complete a competent master's program, build an intelligent portfolio and move to a location with labour laws and/or basic worker rights.
send me your portfolio. We are looking for qualified freelancer to do our architectural design projects. I believe our pay is much much better than your current job.
there ya go firestreakz... Bangladesh wont pay you for design and pay you a measly $200+ dollars a month but Shirley will pay you for your design services and a lot more than your current pay... if you're any good
freelancing is the key for you ^^
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