Check out the salary poll on this site. I would hope you'd be at least in the 45 range. No clue how NYC is though.

pre-recession, $39,000 to 49,000 seems to be a common starting salary range for the biggest corporate firms in NYC, for architectural designers working toward IDP reqs and on a track to become architects. One or two pay in the low-to-mid 50s.

If you have to ask...

thank you yorke and urbanist for answering. it was a question out of curiosity. i was making 45 in chicago pre masters and i was just interested in what the 'going' rate was. What to expect, etc.

Bergin - i dont appreciate your comment, if you have nothing worthwhile to say, then leave this post and dont say anything at all. goodbye

hokay - you might not attract quite so much sarcasm if you had demonstrated even a modicum of prior research into this topic.

hokay......in case you haven't noticed yet......a lot of architects/designers are complete assholes! Welcome to the profesion!

oops....let me correct that before anyone else gets the chance....."profession"

Not assholes. Just Egomaniacs. Me Me Me. When you ask them to back up their talk they cry like little girls looking for mommy.

:) What I meant was...

You will make whatever you are worth, and whatever you can talk your employer into paying you. Salary and value are things that you negotiate, there is no 'market value' for YOU.

If you have to ask... me what your market value is: you are asking for less than you are worth.

Believe in your value.

for big firms, things are pretty standard for jr staff, Michael. If I was just starting out, I would've appreciate knowing what their ranges are. It's a lot easier for us relative old-timers to do what you propose, Michael.

Hi Hokay,

Thank you for the question! I'm just about to finish my Masters of Architecture in Australia and have been working in an Australian based, multinational firm for almost three years and have been wondering the exact same thing.

I'd like to get a transfer to the New York studio when I finish but have absolutely no idea what type of salary to be able to ask for. It's helpful to know what a realistic salary range is in order to be able to negotiate in a reasonable manner. Some of the responses in this post are a bit sad...I know in Australia, there aren't specific guidelines for salaries aside from a minimum starting wage for graduates and registered architects. Salary polls also, aren't overly helpful or reliable.

Anyway, I just wanted to put my two cents in because I'm in a similar position and wanted to post a similar question.

there has been much discussion about downward pressure on salaries but from this thread, it sounds as though they are holding up

can anyone explain?

on the one hand, you hear/read of ppl making 10-30% less and it being unclear if/when salaries will bounce back for quite a while

but these rates for new hires with a little experience don't sound like they've fallen much at all

I'm not sure that starting salaries for architecture graduates can get much lower! The starting salary in Australia is AU$42 - low, considering a graduate teacher or engineer (across all disciplines)can expect around AU$56. Its interesting that architecture salaries are similar in the US.

if you're working corporate in NY and have a masters, 48k is definitely on the LOW end for starting salary. low 50's is more accurate.

I'm not privy to the NYC market but in cities I'm familiar with in the mid-west and west coast there have been basically two methods of enduring the current economy.

#1 - keep salaries pre-recession level. Cut other fringe benefits (401k, etc) and do massive layoffs to balance work with staff.

#2 - minimize layoffs by slashing salaries 10, 20, 30%. Also implement reduced work weeks to balance work with staff.

So yes, pay has some downward pressure right now. Also, don't expect anyone to hire production staff at pre-recession levels, even if there weren't firm wide pay cuts. Think of production Architect's as a commodity. We are in vast supply right now. Nobody is going to pay top $ for something that is in clear abundance.

i had a job interview this morning for a junior architect job. when the guy asked me my salary i said "i am sure whatever u r offering is fair."

tomorrow, i have another interview there with this guys partner. this guy wrote me an email saying "have some idea of what you are willing to accept $ wise. If its under 50 he should be good "

whats ur opinion? do i name a # tomorrow or do i delay as much as possible? i know the rules r that u need to delay giving a # as much as possible but i am worried he might get frustrated and pass over me and get someone cheaper!

i live in NYC and have an m.arch and 3 yrs work exp.

Man, last time I worked in NYC (before finishing my thesis) most I ever got paid was $14/h (+paid overtime). I saved a bunch of money and lived like a king. This was 10+ years ago... Things have changed.

@35K/year you will be barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck while living in a bedbug infested share in the seediest part of Brooklyn.

@40k/year you stop drinking PBR as the gut rot takes a toll. For the first time in a while you can afford a glass of wine once a week or so.

@50k/year you now have some spending money! You can even save $50/paycheck for retirement! You still have 3 roomates, but they are not all musicians and now you live in an up-and coming neighborhood!

@60k/year you have a rental of your own! The toilet is a separate room in the stairwell and the shower is in the kitchen, but hey! It's all yours. For the first time in years you can afford an actual vacation that doesn't involve visiting your parents. Life's getting good!

@70k/year you just moved into a 200 sq.ft. studio in east village. You're king of the world!!! All of your tech gear is less than a year old. You have $500 designer frames on your face. Mature women start taking note. There's a certain strut in your movements as you walk down the street.

@75k/year you are the first one to get cut at the first mention of recession.

@80k/year not sure what happens at this stage, but I'm sure it involves plenty of blowjobs.

This chart is brought to you by the friendly folks at NYC tourist bureau of 5 year fantasy vacations.

steelstuds - you are hilarious! you should write comedy.

on a more serious note, i already live in NYC, i am not relocating here. so my living situation is already set.

next - what do u think is a good salary to ask for? i have the 2008 AIA Compensation Report and it breaks down all the jobs into categories like intern 1, 2, 3 and unlicensed architect 1,2,3. i would attach it to this post but i dont think u can attach to these posts. all the descriptions sound the same and i am not sure where i am on the chart. do i bring this document with me to the interview tomorrow or no?

i am trying to obtain the 2009 and 2010 compensation report....do u happen to have it?

@fixbopixy: seems like this position already has a budget limit. If 50k if the ceiling, then I would say to them "I'm fairly flexible, very eager to get back to work and would be very happy with 55K" A slight nudge above their ceiling would be a good way to solicit a direct response.

If I remember correctly, all money above 50k ends up being taxed very heavily in NYC. 50k to 60k rise will only put about 5k in your pocket.

Try to negotiate decent benefits. Fully paid medical is good. Almost noone in NYC offers a meaningful dental plan any more. Getting 3 weeks of vacation (instead of standard 2) would be a huge benefit and well worth taking a slight paycut. Matching retirement plans are also a nice perk provided you can actually afford to put any money on the side.

A 50K salaried job costs your employer closer to 70K. It's just that most people are bad with maths and can only handle simplest of figures.

2008 AIA report appears to validate my personal observations: salaries jumped dramastically between 05-08. No idea what happened to 2009 report. My guess is that survey results were too volatile for any meaningful data analysis. It's like trying to continue charting of life expectancy after a massive massacre.

its nice

I served on the national AIA advisory committee for the 2008 Compensation Survey. The data collected was for the calendar year 2007 -- which, as you may remember, represented "boom times" for most of the profession. During that particular year (2007) there had been significant upward pressure on salaries, as firms could not find enough qualified labor for the available projects .

The survey was published mid-2008 -- right as the bottom was falling out of the profession and layoffs were starting in a big way. I can remember that the month the survey was published, my own firm went from a hiring-mode to a layoff-mode almost overnight.

My personal recommendation is to take the 2008 survey numbers with a grain of salt. I don't happen to believe that much of the data - if any - represents market conditions in the summer of 2010. There simply is too much in the way of unemployment, underemployment, low fees and salary reductions out there for me to believe that particular set of data is anything like a reliable gauge of the "market" for either employees or employers.

Quiz, do you think the 2005 report would be more accurate source?

"I will be seeking full time employment in NYC, anyone have any insight?"

Full time employment as what? Architecture? or something you can get a job in?

Unicorn: Personally, I don't think any survey offers much useful information in the current economy. I think about the best anybody can do is figure out what you need to live, make a strong case for what you have to offer in the way of productivity and then negotiate the best deal you can over your cost of living.

There simply isn't anything like a "standard" to look at in this situation ... you have to do what you can, not get your back up over some theoretical concept of "worth" and, if you can't negotiate what you need, move on to the next opportunity you can find.

@quizzical: "theoretical concept of "worth""

Nice manifesto, or should I say: Great book Marx!! It will change everything forever!

I have been both grossly underpaid and overpaid at positions that changed their scope of work at whims of market winds. While I agree that there is a large uncertainty in the overall professional stability, what's so wrong about understanding how your peers are being compensated?

There's a lot of mental abuse that comes built in with architecture. It's nice to know that (God forbid) you may one day exchange the fruits of your labor for something comically silly as property ownership.

Even with shrinking fees there is a lot of money to be had in this profession. I see a lot of money mismanagement in design firms. One of (real) starchitects I consulted with owned a private jet, yet most of the office was staffed with young, impressionable, ambitious grunts that were willing to work for next to nothing in exchange for that great pie in the sky called "awesome experience". Turnover rate was under 12 months...

Your "worth" is directly proportional to your understanding of "value" you bring into a given project. The exact amount of compensation is tricky to master, but definitively worth investigating into.

Architects of this world: UNIONIZE!!! arrrrrr!

There is nothing wrong with that ... my point - my only point - is that there currently is no reliable source of such information to help job seekers gauge their compensation expectations.

@quiz: fair enough. I suspect compensation surveys have ever been a 'reliable' source of compensation. I don't recall any of the companies I worked for ever being polled. Nonetheless, it's a useful general guide.

In lieu of such updated guide, asking around these forums is more than valid. If for nothing else, than for the sake of comedy!

I only responded to your comment because there was an underlying Marxism meets libertarianism tone to what you said...

thanks so much for all your posts. to answer 'on the fence's" question above - i tried to nail the interviewer down on what exactly my job title would be. i even threw out some suggestions - junior architect? architectural designer? he said that they don't really do titles there but sure, i could call myself a junior architect.

anyway, interviewer offered me $52K + medical benefits, 2 weeks vacation, etc. based on the 2008 AIA compensation report for the NYC metro area, intern level 3 (thats what i think i am bec i have 3-6 yrs experience) this is the data:

mean $50,000
lower quartile $46,000
median $51,800
upper quartile $53,000

so i guess i am in the right ballpark....thanks for all ur feedback!

Congrats on the job offer!

i have a question about salary of senior architects and principals. does anyone know the average or typical salary of someone like that, at both small firms and large firms?

like does a principal at SOM in NY make $80K or $100K or more? What about SOM in a diff city? And what about a small arch firm? Do you make more money if you own your own business typically?

@ fix- you can also go to glassdoor.com and type in the firm name and find the ACTUAL salaries of people with the title you were offered. titles actually do make a big difference in the corporate world of this profession...

and btw, the higher the title, the greater the bonuses. just because a "salary" is one thing, often a principal will be offered stock ownership, the rights to buy a certain amount of stock in the company, a bonus (which upends everyone else's bonuses), in addition to more bonus "pools"...
the "number" for a salary means nothing compared to the additional perks...