Im in my mid 30's and licensed. I spent a year laid off in 2001 and was hired back at 34K in a large city in 2002. I earned 2 raises, promotions if you will, by jumping ship. It actually worked because in the large firms I was in there was absolutely no chance for any upward mobility. There 15 people on the letterhead for God's sake. Ive been licensed 5 years now, and the 2005-2006 year was my best earning year at $65K in a large city medium sized firm. Ive taken pay cuts and no bonuses 2007, 2008 and 2009 and most like 2010 will be no bonus as well on top of the salary roll backs still in place. Last year I earned less than most interns would expect to make but I actually have a job so I'm ahead of the curb I like to think. The problem now is the competition for work against my employers. I do some side work in order to augment my income and my superiors do not like it. But I dont like them taking 4 or 5 vacations a year while cutting wages. Something has to give in this stalemate, its not just my situation either. There really is a problem where in the face of deteriorating fees, work opportunities and professional respect for our product, the established crowd of Architects needs to maintain their status and in doing so it erodes the wages and jobs for the new architects. In short, Architecture Sucks and getting worse by the week with no prognosis for getting much better for a long time. Your timeline may actually be a little short.
you gotta throw some layoff time in there, adjust for inflation, anticipate another industry setback, perhaps a mid life career change cause your so fed up... when does this movie start?
archgradslc - you can try to outline your life and career advancement but it will not end up like that. If you are basing life decisions on what you anticipate your income and promotion path might look like you'd best take a step back.
Take all those anticipated wages and chop off 25%. Might as well add 5 years to all the ages too. Still want to be an Architect? In reality that could happen, or you could be making $200k at age 50. Nobody knows, so my advise, don't get into this profession at all unless you really really really want to be an Architect.
If you went back and asked a 26 year old me where I'd be by age 40 I probably would've said principal. Hell, I got a few more years to make that happen, but when reality sinks it it can be a real bitch.
Your timeline is certainly possible, except for the 100k part; I actually don't personally know any architects who make that much, including principals. A more reasonable rate for a principal at that level would be about 80k. (Yes, the design studio heads at SOM and other large firms make bank, but there are very few of those people, and we're talking statistics here.) If you're a firm owner you have the potential to make in the 6 figures, but many firm owners right now are having to drastically reduce or even forgo salaries entirely in order to keep their firms afloat. So firm ownership appears to be a wildly fluctuating boat.
Anyway the other thing I would be prepared for, if I were you, is that IDP is very hard to complete in 3 years. The average time is running about 7 years at the moment (or at least, pre-recession - it's probably longer now actually). I had plans similar to yours and I'm ahead on some of my target ages, but ended up wildly behind on the licensing one (and I'm kind of intensely ambitious and have no spouse or children, which will definitely slow your time-table). So I would give yourself a more realistic 7 years to finish IDP + Licensure and re-adjust your timetable accordingly.
like my old professor once told me at IIT,
" if you want money or respect, why don't you go to law school it's right across the street and less painful"
ha ha. law schoool... the idea is attractive, but i'm pretty sure i'd stab my eyes out from all the reading and memorization. err, what's law school like anyways?
ha ha. law school... the idea is attractive, but i'm pretty sure i'd stab my eyes out from all the reading and memorization. err, what's law school like anyways?
Architecture, a lot of reading and memorization - only thing is, that in the office, if you forget anything, "you’re fired" people w/o perfect short term memory, need not apply and eventually get drummed out of the profession.
right now I have 6 years for licensure. 4 for idp and 2 for the tests. is that really too optimistic? how is this profession still alive if thats the case?
Jobless claims are up today
Dow is down (yet again)
Hi-Rise developments still in trouble (Related just put two in Miami into bankruptcy)
European mess broadens
China real estate crash on the horizon
Save the cash on education, buy a cabin in the mtns, guns, water, canned food and a lot of alcoholic beverages.
That'd be a good a investment in the future!
My lawyer still charges $225/hr, acct. charges $150/hr, architects are working for free at this point.
On a brighter note...oh, wait, right, no brighter notes
Seriously, though, some optimism is a lot of people think there will be pent up demand once there is a clear improvement (economically). Inventory for cheap homes is vanishing, buyers are moving up in home price to the next available limit, won't be long before prices will justify new construction (hopefully). And, hopefully by then, banks will have some regulatory clarity and start lending again.
This is good for real estate and architecture.
You could bet on anything. Food, water, guns and alcohol are the only sure things, though.
I wouldn't be surprised if real estate hasn't hit bottom yet. With the tax credit having expired, home sales are falling off again. There are a lot of past foreclosures still working their way through the system and more still to come. Looking at the inventory on the market, a lot of what didn't get snapped up in the tax credit craze is overpriced - sometimes close to mid 2000's bubble prices. I assume these sellers are underwater and have no room to come down in price. Most of those trying to sell an underwater house in this market are probably in a position of distress so we'll eventually see a lot of these turn into short sales or foreclosures. This effect could be exacerbated when interest rates start rising. That will keep downward pressure on prices and put people further underwater. I don't see a resurgence in residential real estate happening until home prices and wages come into balance and until we get some job growth - and except in a few markets we just aren't there yet.
Commercial real estate seems to have stepped back from the brink, but there's still a lot of vacancy and demand is still way down.
All that said, I don't think the picture I've painted is entirely gloomy for architects. We may see homeowners staying put longer in houses where they previously wouldn't so there may be opportunities for us there for additions/renovations, especially for those of us who are good at making the most of a small space or small lot. There's also likely to be a return to renting and a demand for mid-priced rental units that were eaten up by condo and luxury rental conversions.
The bottom line is you can settle and start a different career that you don't care about, and end up at 36 starting a new career. Or you can throw yourself into what you love and see how life turns out.
career timeline, step into my future.
ill be 26 in sept.
b.s. arch studies this may. begin m.arch this fall.
(since i can't find any freaking work im assuming ill start my internship after the m.arch)
28 when i graduate with an m.arch.
start somewhere the 40k's (utah market)
31-32 when i finish i.d.p.
33-34 when im finally licensed.
wife may or may not have survived the process.
now making somewhere in the 70k's
happy with my job, neat work environment, interesting people, actually contributing on projects.
get to design a building at 50. making 100k. can afford to take my family on a trip besides camping.
sound right?
worth it... not worth it?
Im in my mid 30's and licensed. I spent a year laid off in 2001 and was hired back at 34K in a large city in 2002. I earned 2 raises, promotions if you will, by jumping ship. It actually worked because in the large firms I was in there was absolutely no chance for any upward mobility. There 15 people on the letterhead for God's sake. Ive been licensed 5 years now, and the 2005-2006 year was my best earning year at $65K in a large city medium sized firm. Ive taken pay cuts and no bonuses 2007, 2008 and 2009 and most like 2010 will be no bonus as well on top of the salary roll backs still in place. Last year I earned less than most interns would expect to make but I actually have a job so I'm ahead of the curb I like to think. The problem now is the competition for work against my employers. I do some side work in order to augment my income and my superiors do not like it. But I dont like them taking 4 or 5 vacations a year while cutting wages. Something has to give in this stalemate, its not just my situation either. There really is a problem where in the face of deteriorating fees, work opportunities and professional respect for our product, the established crowd of Architects needs to maintain their status and in doing so it erodes the wages and jobs for the new architects. In short, Architecture Sucks and getting worse by the week with no prognosis for getting much better for a long time. Your timeline may actually be a little short.
you gotta throw some layoff time in there, adjust for inflation, anticipate another industry setback, perhaps a mid life career change cause your so fed up... when does this movie start?
archgradslc - you can try to outline your life and career advancement but it will not end up like that. If you are basing life decisions on what you anticipate your income and promotion path might look like you'd best take a step back.
Take all those anticipated wages and chop off 25%. Might as well add 5 years to all the ages too. Still want to be an Architect? In reality that could happen, or you could be making $200k at age 50. Nobody knows, so my advise, don't get into this profession at all unless you really really really want to be an Architect.
If you went back and asked a 26 year old me where I'd be by age 40 I probably would've said principal. Hell, I got a few more years to make that happen, but when reality sinks it it can be a real bitch.
Your timeline is certainly possible, except for the 100k part; I actually don't personally know any architects who make that much, including principals. A more reasonable rate for a principal at that level would be about 80k. (Yes, the design studio heads at SOM and other large firms make bank, but there are very few of those people, and we're talking statistics here.) If you're a firm owner you have the potential to make in the 6 figures, but many firm owners right now are having to drastically reduce or even forgo salaries entirely in order to keep their firms afloat. So firm ownership appears to be a wildly fluctuating boat.
Anyway the other thing I would be prepared for, if I were you, is that IDP is very hard to complete in 3 years. The average time is running about 7 years at the moment (or at least, pre-recession - it's probably longer now actually). I had plans similar to yours and I'm ahead on some of my target ages, but ended up wildly behind on the licensing one (and I'm kind of intensely ambitious and have no spouse or children, which will definitely slow your time-table). So I would give yourself a more realistic 7 years to finish IDP + Licensure and re-adjust your timetable accordingly.
like my old professor once told me at IIT,
" if you want money or respect, why don't you go to law school it's right across the street and less painful"
ha ha. law schoool... the idea is attractive, but i'm pretty sure i'd stab my eyes out from all the reading and memorization. err, what's law school like anyways?
ha ha. law school... the idea is attractive, but i'm pretty sure i'd stab my eyes out from all the reading and memorization. err, what's law school like anyways?
Architecture, a lot of reading and memorization - only thing is, that in the office, if you forget anything, "you’re fired" people w/o perfect short term memory, need not apply and eventually get drummed out of the profession.
huh, rethinkit? get drummed out of law?
im not after money or respect...
but im also not after 0 money and disrespect.
right now I have 6 years for licensure. 4 for idp and 2 for the tests. is that really too optimistic? how is this profession still alive if thats the case?
so basically... in 8 years (2 left for m.Arch then 6 for licensure) I can be licensed in arch...
that is the worst thing I have ever heard!! ah!
I could be a dentist in 5 if I really wanted!
archinect is scary.
You really can't plan out your life like that with any career, especially architecture.
You can't plan your career like that because life will happen in the meantime...
Jobless claims are up today
Dow is down (yet again)
Hi-Rise developments still in trouble (Related just put two in Miami into bankruptcy)
European mess broadens
China real estate crash on the horizon
Save the cash on education, buy a cabin in the mtns, guns, water, canned food and a lot of alcoholic beverages.
That'd be a good a investment in the future!
My lawyer still charges $225/hr, acct. charges $150/hr, architects are working for free at this point.
On a brighter note...oh, wait, right, no brighter notes
Seriously, though, some optimism is a lot of people think there will be pent up demand once there is a clear improvement (economically). Inventory for cheap homes is vanishing, buyers are moving up in home price to the next available limit, won't be long before prices will justify new construction (hopefully). And, hopefully by then, banks will have some regulatory clarity and start lending again.
This is good for real estate and architecture.
You could bet on anything. Food, water, guns and alcohol are the only sure things, though.
I wouldn't be surprised if real estate hasn't hit bottom yet. With the tax credit having expired, home sales are falling off again. There are a lot of past foreclosures still working their way through the system and more still to come. Looking at the inventory on the market, a lot of what didn't get snapped up in the tax credit craze is overpriced - sometimes close to mid 2000's bubble prices. I assume these sellers are underwater and have no room to come down in price. Most of those trying to sell an underwater house in this market are probably in a position of distress so we'll eventually see a lot of these turn into short sales or foreclosures. This effect could be exacerbated when interest rates start rising. That will keep downward pressure on prices and put people further underwater. I don't see a resurgence in residential real estate happening until home prices and wages come into balance and until we get some job growth - and except in a few markets we just aren't there yet.
Commercial real estate seems to have stepped back from the brink, but there's still a lot of vacancy and demand is still way down.
All that said, I don't think the picture I've painted is entirely gloomy for architects. We may see homeowners staying put longer in houses where they previously wouldn't so there may be opportunities for us there for additions/renovations, especially for those of us who are good at making the most of a small space or small lot. There's also likely to be a return to renting and a demand for mid-priced rental units that were eaten up by condo and luxury rental conversions.
Yeah, I wouldn't be making plans until after the 2012, because the world might actually end.
Start this timeline at 36. Then you have my life.
The bottom line is you can settle and start a different career that you don't care about, and end up at 36 starting a new career. Or you can throw yourself into what you love and see how life turns out.
I say that you go for it; as Burham says --
"make no little plans"
Have you started your NCARB Council Record -- you can gain IDP credits without a position using the EPC.
Find a mentor and network, network, network.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.