has great videos

Focus on Illustrator before InDesign (although both are great at what they do - you can get by without ID, but not without IL)

Personally, I learned from books, but that was prior to Lynda's videos.

i disagree with trace

i learned photoshop initially, then gradually learned illustrator and indesign side-by-side.

essentially, illustrator has more diagramming potential and interfaces with CAD and Rhino linework really well

but I believe a foundation in photoshop, which has more montage and compositional potential, works best for someone learning graphics software for the first time

and don't feel you HAVE to learn indesign to lay out a successful portfolio, far from it, in fact. if you had to invest in one of the three programs i would totally suggest photoshop.

i did my portfolio in photoshop. yes, it takes more time, but you have way more control over your total composition, especially when many of the elements are complex

To clarify, Photoshop is definitely the first to master. Illustrator second. You can get by without learning ID, and even when you do, an hour tutorial and you'll be fine for making portfolios.

Illustrator is great for making single page layouts because it is fast. You can move text, linked images and plans around very quickly. In PS it is just so slow (but possible). You'll also retain the vector quality of fonts/plans/diagrams in IL.

I would suggest bringing up all 3 together. Particularly because after you master one, you'll resist the others more because of the slight differences in tools, commands, etc. Look for a course that introduces them concurrently, and make yourself use them in a project right from the start. Add flash later if you're still looking for more skills.

LML is right. learning the software is one thing. applying it to a project is another. I learned by doing silly little things similar to this webpage: worth1000.com – it’s a site that does competitions within photoshop and compete with other amateurs. Little by little you start getting better at it that you can venture in another adobe application.

Thanks guys- very useful advice.

I didn't realize Illustrator was considered more important than InDesign... I thought InDesign was for publications/layouts, while Illustrator was used to make animated graphics. Guess I was wrong.

The truth of the matter is, even if I DID learn how to use Photoshop, I can't claim to know what to do with those skills, besides cleaning up the backgrounds on pictures so it looks all-black. I don't know where people get their ideas for M.Arch 1 portfolios (no background).

Anyways,

we got lynda.com-

any other forums where I can learn these 3 programs simultaneously? thanks, guys!

For what it's worth:

I would recommend learning BOTH Photoshop and Illustrator because they are not really interchangeable programs.

This is why:

Photoshop is a raster based software designed to work with images. What does this mean? It means it treats everything as an image, so things like text, line drawings, etc which would normally be a vector graphic or not rastered as an image. Aside from making the text look really bad, it's going to slow down the program immensely. It's just not designed to handle it. What Photoshop is meant for is to clean up images... resize, color, random effects.

Illustrator is the yin to Photoshops yang. Illustrator does all the things Photoshop isn't so hot at - like text and line drawings - but isn't so good for image modification. In fact, like Photoshop, when you start resizing and manipulating images in Illustrator, aside from slowing down, your file size will become huge. Like 2gb huge. Trust me on that mistake.

The interface of both programs, let alone most Adobe programs, is so similar that learning both at the same time won't be a big deal. Your going to find that for almost any graphic work you do, you are going to require the use of both programs.

InDesign is really meant to take the image work you did in Photoshop and the Vector work you did in Illustrator and put them together in a layout. Although it does have a few additional type and paragraph tools that Illustrator doesn't have (or are hard to find) it's not the most essential program. When it comes time to put together your 80 page thesis prep book, InDesign will be amazing. But for a few page document, I always use Illustrator. To me it's faster and easier to use.

Cherith-

thanks for breaking it down for me, I appreciate the explanations.

So, how does one use the 2 programs (Photoshop and Illustrator) together?

Take my pics into Photoshop and adjust, then export them out to Illustrator, where I then add text, designate page size and layout stuff?

Or modify images in Photoshop, text in Illustrator, and then import both of those into InDesign to make a portfolio?

PS - bitmap based. Photo editing program, so good for things like adjusting renderings, adding people to renderings, cleaning up photographs

Ill - vector based. What vector based means is that it is all based on mathematical calculations - lines and fill make up everything (vs. PS that is pixel based). This is what Autocad (or any cad) program is.

What this means is that you can scale the artwork in Ill and it will not distort (because it is vector based). This is what graphic artists use to make logos, so you can print the logo on a business card just as easily as a billboard.

Floor plans are vector based.

Illustrator is also great for simple layouts (single pages), as you can quickly move text (fonts are vector based), link photos, etc.


You need both. InDesign is great for more complex presentations, like magazines, multi page presentations, etc.

thanks, trace and cherith and everyone :)

while i have y'all's attention-

i have been scouring the internet looking for 'standard' sizes for dance studios, auditoriums, etc. Is there a good online source for this? My school's library has Neufert but it's from 1975!

I don't even know if I'm Googling the right terms- "dance studio standards"/ "dance studio specifications"

well if the human body changed dramatically since 1975 you should get a new neufert. The principle is still the same, maybe some regulations changed but for a M.arch application you don't have to be that specific I suppose. Otherwise there should be a more up-to-date neufert pdf floating around somewhere, scribd is quite a valuable and legal(?) resource for that matter. You can also use websites where they post recent projects such as archdaily etc. and see if they posted dance studios or whatever you need.

for what it's worth, I've come to notice that the biggest factor between people with great computer skills and those with less great ones tends to be their attitude towards the computer. People who are fearless, willing to mess around and break the software will be more successful because they gain a greater understanding of what the software is capable of and what its limits are. You have to be willing to push buttons that you don't know what they do. That said, go play.

Hi Everyone-

Sorry to re-awaken the thread, but I have some follow-ups to Design Questions, regarding MAKING GRAPHIC PRESENTATIONS of TECHNICAL DRAWINGS. (sorry, in caps to draw attention, ...hopefully?)

I have a bunch of AutoCAD drawings and am unsure how to get them looking spiffy on a poster, for better presentation.

I did this really lame PrintScreen thing, and in InDesign made the background black to try and blend... it was pretty bad.

Anyways- I know there are 'work orders' or some sort of process A-->B-->C when it comes to making presentable documents. What are they?

How can I capture CAD documents (preferably to size) and get them on a poster? If I want to color parts in, do I do this in Photoshop on each picture individually, and then send it all on to InDesign for final assembly?

I'm trying to teach myself here... how do people learn this stuff for all those beautiful poster presentations I see online here all the time?

Copy and paste from ACAD to Illustrator. Then you can bump up lineweights and what not. You'll get much cleaner linework in Illustrator that PS...but that's bee covered before (raster v. vector)

If your lineweights are where you want them when you print (you setup your CTB or PTB file to print the way you want), you can print a .pdf and open the pdf in Illustrator. Illustrator can fill regions too.

I've done all of my presentations/portfolios in Illustrator.

I'll trade you if you have some sweet nunchuck skills.












sorry. It had to be done.

from autocad make a printer that plots-to file. it will come out as an eps file. you can manipulate that in illustrator.

i usually take care of line weights in autocad and only use illustrator to fill backgrounds and so on, it saves more time than doing it all in illustrator, at least for me.

good luck.

If you set all of your lineweights and types in the layer manager, then export and open the dxf in Illustrator, all you have to do is change the color of the lines and for dashed lines change the gaps and dashes to look right. This is the way I use and I feel it gives me quite a bit more control over how the drawing looks.

You can also export to pdf, then open the pdf in illustrator.

Main thing is you want to keep the dwg in a vector form (eps, dwf, pdf will do this).

Wow guys, thanks!

2 Follow-ups:

1. I am supposed to "clean up the images"- my teacher said don't give all the info you would normally give in work documents, these presentations don't need to be as technical, plus the images need to be shrunk a little. So can Illustrator do this- erase dimension lines and hatches and stuff? Or should I clean all this up in AutoCad BEFORE exporting?

2. For those who said the File to Print method, and for those who suggest Export as PDF-
Will those be in scale when I open in Illustrator?

3. @ THEaquino:
My lineweights are all pre-selected on my template in the layers manager in AutoCad (you only see the weights when you print them/preview them in Layout)
How do I "bump up lineweights" in Illustrator?

------------------
I feel like I've been fooling around with Photoshop, and all along Illustrator had the answers! I didn't know it could alter .dwg the same way AutoCad does.
THANKS AGAIN!

1. Get rid of lines in autocad, it's easier.

2. yes, if you print to scale, ditto for export

3. if lines are different (stroke, color) then you can "select by" and manipulate only those lines. I find it, therefore, nice to save layers organized by color-to-lineweight relationships (printing using ctb, but also helpful to export in color). I usually "select by color" into groups then fiddle with the stroke (lineweight).

The day I gave in and picked up Illustrator in grad school was one of the best days of school.

i use indesign for page layouts, illustrator for any work of a single page whether its a poster or an index card. i don't use photoshop as much as i thought i would. primarily to dewrinkle myself for my match.com profile. but as has been stated, great sources exist on the youtube and on the help sections of the programs themselves.

depending on what you've got to bump up you may just use your pen tool and redraw the plan.

example i just made a poster for a film series my friend is running. i grabbed the high res images off of google and cropped them in photoshop. then i merely placed them in illustrator where i designed the poster. before printing i saved the poster and flattened the image before making a pdf.

what does "get rid of lines in autocad" mean?

I delete (or turn the layers off) all dimensions and most text in acad before exporting


"Select by" works quite well in Ill


To elaborate on vr's post, I fill in the walls with a solid color. We do this for every client's plans for presentation, then line weight doesn't really matter much (and your average person can understand it).



And in addition to wrinkly minimizing, it PS is quite handy getting rid of those nasty bags and blood shot eyes. Works wonders!

My guess is that they mean instead of trying to erase or cover up lines in Illustrator or PS in the pfd or eps file after you've plotted, to simply turn those layers off in AutoCAD before you plot to file, or make a new plot with those layers turned off. Easier to hit one button in AutoCAD than trying to cover each individual line up with Adobe.



The first program I leaned was PS, and that was probably a good 12 years ago at least. I'd say 95% of the graphics stuff I did in undergrad I used PS for. That being said, PS isn't the best way to go for everything, like described above.

I first used ID a year ago, it reminded me somewhat of the old Pagemaker program (anyone remember that?). Our whole studio used it for one presentation, and then I'm planning on doing page layouts for my upcoming M. Arch portfolio in it. You can do layouts in PS, and I've done them before, ID just has better tools to do it with.

As for Illustrator, it's on my list of things to do (along with Revit, kerkythea, and some other stuff). It doesn't do so well with photos from what I know, but for line drawings, sketches, logos, fancy text, etc, it works nice.



So, to sum it up, I'd agree with some of the posters above and learn Photoshop first, since pretty much anything you need to do probably CAN be done in PS, then Illustrator, then InDesign. Or you can try 2 or 3 at once, since you'll most likely be going back and forth between each program anyway in your work, it won't hurt to get used to going back and forth while you're learning.

that makes sense about the lines thing. that i how we do it too. also ditto for the filling the walls.


i learned PS shortly after it came out back when there was no undo function and no layers, just painting. it wasn't much use, got to admit. but then again we had really horrible 3d software too, like UP-FRONT.

PS is very versatile now. still, would never use it for layout. in-design is much better for that. wouldn't use illustrator for layout either. it's just too heavy and the one page at a time thing is not so good for when you want to shuffle images from page to page when putting a portfolio together.

i figger to be most efficient learning all three is the best...

i found this website last week deprocess.org they helped alot another is tudelft put that in google. Another helpful website is slowhome.com these are just some websites that i found they helped and i will promote the shit out of them.