i started undergrad in mechanical engineering and then switched to architecture. at the very least, it made structures courses and technical portions of the ARE a snap.

i think most firms would have a hard time utilizing someone with both a PE and RA. you'd most likely get shoehorned into a specialty.

otoh, having both would be fantastic if you had your own firm.

One major problem you might encounter once you get out of school is the "me architect. you engineer. my dad beat up your dad." mentality that exists as far as architect ego defense goes.

Petty? of course but its reality.

I've found that architects are generally an insecure lot and are about as territorial as a common junkyard dog who rabidly patrols his territory and pisses on any and all scraps to claim them. Esp. when it comes to a perceived threat of a P.E. "invading" their turf.

Watch out for marginalization due to architect triggered ego defense mechanisms. They are definitely set on a "hair-trigger" sensitivity too.

Thanks for the responses so far guys. I suppose part of me was motivated by architects like calatrava who dabbled on both sides of the fence.

Winston (or anyone else for that matter), do you think that I will carry the "engineer" stigma with me even after I complete an accredited M.Arch program and pass the ARE?

I will have an accredited undergraduate engineering degree, and and accredited graduate M.Arch degree- technically I could go down either path for licensure.

I did my undergrad in Mechanical Engineering, and worked for a while, before entering a 3-year M.Arch 1 program.

I've found that my background in engineering has been incredibly helpful for architecture. having a basic knowledge of structure, air flow, whathaveyou is nice, but i think the real benefit is familiarity with the software. I've been using CAD forever, and my undergrad experience with LabView has been really helpful for graphical programming like Grasshopper...

however, i've found that people don't really care what you did for undergrad, it almost never comes up in conversation, even in job interviews.... I could go for a PE (took the EIT a few years ago), but honestly I wouldn't want to work for an engineer for the time it would take to become eligible for the test... not when architecture is so much more satisfying.

"Winston (or anyone else for that matter), do you think that I will carry the "engineer" stigma with me even after I complete an accredited M.Arch program and pass the ARE?"

Not if you are not a P.E. and/or are able to keep it a secret.

Generally engineers make 25% more than architects which translates into 4X more after adjusting for the cost of living. I wish I would have gone into structural engineering.

Curiously, engineers are generally more open minded to Architects "invading" their territory...must be that they are that much less insecure.

What is all this nonsense about insecurity and ego? And territorial, architects are NOT. If we were, the field wouldn't be like this right now.

If you have the time and you can make engineering and architecture degrees work for you in the professional world, bravo.

As for this: "was thinking that a healthcare design firm would value a dual licensed engineer/ architect". I guess that would depend on what kind of engineering your background is, but it would have to be related (i.e. structural engineering won't help you design a better health care facility or manage such a project)

I am in architectural engineering- I am essentially a bastardization of mechanical, electrical, structural, and construction engineering. All of my work experience/ internships on the engineering side have been in MEP systems design- I figured this would be the portion that would benefit the healthcare design.

For those of you that switched from engineering to architecture:

How was your M.Arch experience? Did you find that your background was a benefit, or was it something that professors viewed as a hinderance to the creative process? I am somewhat nervous of encountering the latter.

engr10

I think it depends on the individual and their ego to be honest.

student 1 and student 2 case study

there was one kid in a studio who had a ME background and any critique he would defend his design with some engineering theory he picked up in undergrad......well this worked for a while until one day for reviews we had a guy who had a bachelor in Civil and b.arch. an M.Arch and M.Structural and a phd in Structural Engineering. needles too say student 1 got his **** handed to him.

student 2 also had the same undergrad degree and just came in to Architecture school wanting to be creative. He was really good at creating an Arch w/ Design attitude and not Engineering and then Design or Design then Engineering attitude.

Like i said it depends on the person student 1 was never wrong and student 2 wasnt afraid to push something design wise (while knowing what engineering implications may arise) and then use his engineering background to solve the issues he designed in an innovative way

WInston,

I don't know what structural engineers you were able to deal with, but it is my opinion that you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip regarding these guys.

Ask them a simple question and they'll ask you firstly to explain to them your level of epertise and why you may require the information as to ascertain how they will shoot you and your request down.

Pric*s, the whole lot of em.

I have a degree in civil, and I would say it has helped quite a bit in relating to engineers and contractors. I also have a BArch and an MArch, and for me relating the two disciplines has been a focus I pursue in my own work. I never experienced any push-back related to my earlier education in engineering, but I also tried to let that way of thinking go at least for the early part of my design education. I think if you can go into Architecture school with an open mind, no decent educator would look down on such a challenging degree. In fact, there are many offices around the world that actively work towards unifying these professions.

Winston are you related to the poster Piggy? He/She made the same claim in regard to cost of living and no one can figure out his/her math – even us engineers. Please explain it.

And, as far as architectural egos….The best engineers (and architects) are the ones who collaborate with each other most effectively. Maybe its my background, but I’ve always had enormous respect for the engineers I work with - provided they made an effort to understand the creative motivations of a project and design accordingly. I agree with Slartibartfast. If architects are as egotistical as you claim they are, why did we ever marginalize ourselves so much by releasing responsibility (and in turn control over our work) to engineers?

"Ask them a simple question and they'll ask you firstly to explain to them your level of epertise and why you may require the information as to ascertain how they will shoot you and your request down."

If the average architect were smart enough, this is how the architecture profession would still be. The marketplace would still pay us more and architects would still be respected. We are not because generally the average architect/ future architect has little to no respect for time and/or money of their own in the first place.

Engineers generally still do. That is why they make so much more money than archs. The marketplace respects them in large part because they respect demands on their expertise and time in the first place.

Architects are losers. That is why a 6 year MArch degree is worth 35K.

...and a 4 year engineering degree is worth 60K on average.

'Losers'?....There’s the Piggy we know and love!

This is now the second thread I’ve asked you to explain your math on ‘cost of living’ and you ignored it. Like I said the last time, stand by your numbers and calculations like the engineer you wish you were…or just shut up about it.

I liked Piggy. May he Rest In Peace. Fat Fat Fatty that Piggy would have made some tasty bacon.

Hopefully Ralph is still alive somewhere out there on this here island.

Edgewood,

Thanks for your rational response- I am relieved that someone else has actually put into practice what I have been planning (and hoping).

Personally, I view art and engineering on the same continuum with architecture residing approximately halfway between it, shifting slightly between the two as time goes by and as styles evolve. I think that if you focus on one end of the spectrum too much, you become closed-minded towards what the other can offer you- hence my desire to open myself and become proficient in both extremes.

I have been getting a lot of flack from both architecture and engineering faculty who assume that I cannot do one because of a proficiency in the other. There were architecture professors who preemptively wrote off my creative ability because of being an engineering student- they do not know that I paint, draw, sculpt, and have an appreciation for the function of a building. And vice versa, considering math and physics abilities.

Unfortunately, this also seems to be the root of a lot of problems that I have been receiving as a student when I talk to people on both sides of the fence about my career goals. Slightly depressing.

engr10 - just wear black and you have instant arch cred.

you'll

Engr10

You ‘paint, draw, sculpt, and have an appreciation for the function of a building’? Frankly, you sound like you’re on your way to being an architect already. Its surprising to me that a professor would ever have a problem with a student trying to bridge a gap between disciplines, but it certainly does happen. Engineers (and engineering professors) are much more specialized than many architects, and their tendency to sometimes ignore the big picture is where I find many conflicts arise. I’ve mentioned before in other posts that the best engineers find creative ways to work with architects (and vice versa), and the best relationships I’ve had with them were with the ones that were enthusiastic about design. Honestly, sometimes I wonder why they’d be in this field if they were not. As you’ve figured out its about more than just crunching numbers and sizing beams and ducts. Simply put, a better of understanding by design team members of everyone else’s role and agenda in the building process can only create better buildings in my opinion.

– If you have any specific questions please email me.




WinstonPiggyRalph – whoever you are

Are you seriously not going to give an explanation about your cost of living remark….again? I’m honestly interested. If you don’t want your math to be scrutinized then you should give up your dream of being a structural engineer (from your other thread as piggy). If you think the Archinect community is too tough just wait until the plaintiff’s lawyers get a hold of you.

engr10 I'm in the same boat as you. Just about to finish up my civil engineering degree and planning on applying for M.Arch programs for next fall. The faculty at the architecture building treated me like a leper for quite a while when I would come to them with questions.

It's definitely inspiring to hear from someone like Edgewood Animal who came from a similar background and is now working in architecture.