An informal survey to see what level folks are currently employed. Rating system is 1 - not employed at all, 10 - full employed, and everything inbetween (5 - 50% part-time). I'll take the average once we get some responses.
By montagneux's requirements, relative to my last salaried job, I'm an 18 about to become a 24. Vis a vis a regular workweek I'm a 2 about to become a 6, and to last years workweek I'm a 1 becoming a 4, but vis-a-vis last year and montagneux's requirements I'm a 223.
Working FT but with a sizable pay cut so somewhere between a 7 or 8. Haven't got a raise or bonus since 2007 so drop it another couple points. Yeah, I'm around a 5...maybe 6 on a day I'm feeling relatively positive.
i'd estimate 7.5. i think at my job maybe half the time. i work full time hours wise, but i get paid about 75% of what i'd get for an entry level architect position.
i love how we're quantifying our experiences! should figure out a way to integrate a likert scale into all of this, for kicks.
Nice M, I love the dodgy math. I've looked at it three times, and I'm still not entirely sure, but I think my numbers were correct. The last one might be badly off.
Well say... you're in the 50th percentile. As in, that's about what everyone around you makes.
So, let's say you're really making $54,000 a year instead of $47,000. If no bonuses and you're working overtime, you're really would be working 2392 hours to make that amount (312 hours, 6 hours a week).
Now say you're getting paid $54,000 a year but you're only working 34 hours a week.
Well, over those 34 hours a week... you're getting paid $3.92 more an hour than you should be. If I take away $3.92 from your wage, you'd be back at 50% percentile. In this instance you would be rated 11.5.
If you're making $47,000 and working full-time... but you're only getting paid $35,000... you're employer is cheating you out of $4.26 cents an hour. You'd be a 7.5 In this instance.
I think I got overemplyed/underemployed mixed... but that's a matter of perspective.
Overemployed to employees means getting underpaid. Underemployed to employers means you aren't working hard enough for your pay.
But this is a matter of semantics anyways because wage hour doesn't matter to salaried employees!
Just an update. My oversight, I changed the low number to a "0" for a proper average. So far with 19 qualified respondents, we are at a employment rate of........4.52
The more posts we get, the more accurate it is, so all you archinect folks "just looking" come on and put a number down!
Jesus - either you WORK full time, Half time, or NOT AT ALL!!!
Here is a new measure, to make it easier!
Full time - 10
Half time - 5
Unemployed - 0
"Dunno" per week - 0 - 10
Here is my question - people who are in the "dunno," rate your "dunno" between 1 and 10 - so it can fit within a 0 and 10 range... no one can gauge your "sort-of" employment if it's not either 'full time,' or 'part-time,' or 'unemployed.'
This "upper, or lower" end "range" crap is not viable in any measure, unless it's given a measure. You feel me?
0 = unemployed
1 = working 0.5 a day a week (4 hours, paid)
2 = working 1.0 day a week (8 hours, paid)
3 = working 1.5 days a week (12 hours, paid)
4 = working 2 days a week (16 hours, paid)
5 = working 2.5 days a week (20 hours, paid)
6 = working 3.0 days a week (24 hours, paid)
7 = working 3.5 days a week (28 hours, paid)
8 = working 4.0 days a week (32 hours, paid)
9 = working 4.5 days a week (36 hours, paid)
10 = working 5 or more days a week (40 + hours, paid)
I think with all the possible interpretation out there, this kind of survey needs to be explicitly about paid hours, as a percentage of a 5 day week... It gets too muddled if you consider overtime, benefits, profit sharing and bonuses, etc. Fully employed by industry standards is measured against that 5 day, 8 hours/day... 40 hours (or more)...
If you are unemployed, you're a 0, if you're employed 40+ hours (pay wise) then you're a 10... if you're down to 4 days a week (pay, regardless of actual starting normal salary) you'd be an 8... 3 days a week and you'd be a 6...etc.
Salary reductions (from your regular salary before the reduction) should be listed as the percentage reduction in your salary... So for example, a 30% pay cut would put you at 7, etc.
You can never be over 10, that would just mean you are fully employed, and therefore a 10, since when ever is an architect really working only 40 hours? The relevant number should be what percentage of your starting salary you are making *now*, or if you were hired part time, how many days you work out of a 5 day standard week...
Because your actual starting salary is totally dependent on what you had negotiated at the beginning, and also your level of experience, and where you live, etc... If you were hired at part time say 2 days a week, then you'd be a 4...
lol... lets start this survey over based on this...
0 = unemployed
1 = working 0.5 a day a week (4 hours, paid)
2 = working 1.0 day a week (8 hours, paid)
3 = working 1.5 days a week (12 hours, paid)
4 = working 2.0 days a week (16 hours, paid)
5 = working 2.5 days a week (20 hours, paid)
6 = working 3.0 days a week (24 hours, paid)
7 = working 3.5 days a week (28 hours, paid)
8 = working 4.0 days a week (32 hours, paid)
9 = working 4.5 days a week (36 hours, paid)
10 = working 5.0 or more days a week (40 + hours, paid)
*keep in mind that by days I mean relative to your starting salary... The only relevant thing is a percentage of your normal salary... In other words, if you just had a reduction in pay and are doing the same amount of work, you are effectively now being paid fewer days for the same work... I.E. You might still be working the full 40 hours+ but if you had a 20% pay cut, you would list your employment as an 8.0*
Those calculations would only make sense in a paid by the hour wage.
I, for instance, work part-time. But my hourly billing rate is high. If I wanted to be "full-time," I'd have to work 20 hours a week.
I currently only work 3-5 hours a week. I say a three because I'm only making 1/3 of what I feasibly could be making.
But compared to someone working a retail job, I'd be like a 9. The only way to establish a ratio or a multiplier would be to devise that number based on a chart of averages.
Even though architects are generally a exempt position under the FLSA, no one should be working more than 50 hours a week.
If an employer is pushing you to work 50 hours more a week, you should be logging those hours (regardless of if you are getting paid for them). The reason for doing this is purely for liability. If your employer is making you sign 40 hours when you're clearly not working 40 hours... that is fraud.
Now Washingtonian, that’s not the spirit of this thread.
Suggestion, take your skills and if you cannot find a traditional architecture job, find a way to redefine yourself.
For instance, I used to work as a "information architect" building websites.
Disclosure: I am technically a "0" also, although I have found an income stream outside of architecture.
It was unintentional to call unemployed people "0"s I hope there were not any negative connotations in that....
How employed are you? Rate 1-10
An informal survey to see what level folks are currently employed. Rating system is 1 - not employed at all, 10 - full employed, and everything inbetween (5 - 50% part-time). I'll take the average once we get some responses.
10
1
1
5-15
10.. would a pay cut with the same hours mean that I'm overemployed? if so I'm a 12
no outthere... a payrise without an increase in hours would be "over employed," you're underemployed.
3 here.
-1
outthere, I'm putting you at an "8", boy I want you to come work for me, I cut your salary and you think you getting something!
2-3
By montagneux's requirements, relative to my last salaried job, I'm an 18 about to become a 24. Vis a vis a regular workweek I'm a 2 about to become a 6, and to last years workweek I'm a 1 becoming a 4, but vis-a-vis last year and montagneux's requirements I'm a 223.
1
10 for now
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4397626421_32deacf165_o.jpg
God forbid I upset someone's feelings!
Luckily I made an excel spreadsheet just in case! I will quantify everything with dodgy math and bad color choices!
Working FT but with a sizable pay cut so somewhere between a 7 or 8. Haven't got a raise or bonus since 2007 so drop it another couple points. Yeah, I'm around a 5...maybe 6 on a day I'm feeling relatively positive.
4.5
10
20
1
i'd estimate 7.5. i think at my job maybe half the time. i work full time hours wise, but i get paid about 75% of what i'd get for an entry level architect position.
i love how we're quantifying our experiences! should figure out a way to integrate a likert scale into all of this, for kicks.
Nice M, I love the dodgy math. I've looked at it three times, and I'm still not entirely sure, but I think my numbers were correct. The last one might be badly off.
as for a Likert scale, my work experience gets a 5, my work setting a 2, my supervisor a 4, and my place of business a 3.
Well say... you're in the 50th percentile. As in, that's about what everyone around you makes.
So, let's say you're really making $54,000 a year instead of $47,000. If no bonuses and you're working overtime, you're really would be working 2392 hours to make that amount (312 hours, 6 hours a week).
Now say you're getting paid $54,000 a year but you're only working 34 hours a week.
Well, over those 34 hours a week... you're getting paid $3.92 more an hour than you should be. If I take away $3.92 from your wage, you'd be back at 50% percentile. In this instance you would be rated 11.5.
If you're making $47,000 and working full-time... but you're only getting paid $35,000... you're employer is cheating you out of $4.26 cents an hour. You'd be a 7.5 In this instance.
I think I got overemplyed/underemployed mixed... but that's a matter of perspective.
Overemployed to employees means getting underpaid. Underemployed to employers means you aren't working hard enough for your pay.
But this is a matter of semantics anyways because wage hour doesn't matter to salaried employees!
10 looking for another 10
1
Just an update. My oversight, I changed the low number to a "0" for a proper average. So far with 19 qualified respondents, we are at a employment rate of........4.52
The more posts we get, the more accurate it is, so all you archinect folks "just looking" come on and put a number down!
5
I would be afraid of the repercussions (jynx) of putting my number down.
I'd be at the upper end of the upper end.
Knock on wood. Cross fingers.
good for cross fingers - meanwhile, the republican a-holes are blocking unemployment benefits - till they get their pork-barrel projects....
was a 6. as of today a 3.
2. Some contract work but mostly unemployed.
what does "3" mean???? I "SORT OF" work???
Jesus - either you WORK full time, Half time, or NOT AT ALL!!!
Here is a new measure, to make it easier!
Full time - 10
Half time - 5
Unemployed - 0
"Dunno" per week - 0 - 10
Here is my question - people who are in the "dunno," rate your "dunno" between 1 and 10 - so it can fit within a 0 and 10 range... no one can gauge your "sort-of" employment if it's not either 'full time,' or 'part-time,' or 'unemployed.'
This "upper, or lower" end "range" crap is not viable in any measure, unless it's given a measure. You feel me?
Okay, I'm unemployed so that's a 0...
0 = unemployed
1 = working 0.5 a day a week (4 hours, paid)
2 = working 1.0 day a week (8 hours, paid)
3 = working 1.5 days a week (12 hours, paid)
4 = working 2 days a week (16 hours, paid)
5 = working 2.5 days a week (20 hours, paid)
6 = working 3.0 days a week (24 hours, paid)
7 = working 3.5 days a week (28 hours, paid)
8 = working 4.0 days a week (32 hours, paid)
9 = working 4.5 days a week (36 hours, paid)
10 = working 5 or more days a week (40 + hours, paid)
I think with all the possible interpretation out there, this kind of survey needs to be explicitly about paid hours, as a percentage of a 5 day week... It gets too muddled if you consider overtime, benefits, profit sharing and bonuses, etc. Fully employed by industry standards is measured against that 5 day, 8 hours/day... 40 hours (or more)...
If you are unemployed, you're a 0, if you're employed 40+ hours (pay wise) then you're a 10... if you're down to 4 days a week (pay, regardless of actual starting normal salary) you'd be an 8... 3 days a week and you'd be a 6...etc.
Salary reductions (from your regular salary before the reduction) should be listed as the percentage reduction in your salary... So for example, a 30% pay cut would put you at 7, etc.
You can never be over 10, that would just mean you are fully employed, and therefore a 10, since when ever is an architect really working only 40 hours? The relevant number should be what percentage of your starting salary you are making *now*, or if you were hired part time, how many days you work out of a 5 day standard week...
Because your actual starting salary is totally dependent on what you had negotiated at the beginning, and also your level of experience, and where you live, etc... If you were hired at part time say 2 days a week, then you'd be a 4...
I agree bRink... thank you... and thank you for breaking it down to exact times - we here are SOO about exacts... and that's fine...
So, guys and gals - RATE it! - use this gauge...
lol... lets start this survey over based on this...
0 = unemployed
1 = working 0.5 a day a week (4 hours, paid)
2 = working 1.0 day a week (8 hours, paid)
3 = working 1.5 days a week (12 hours, paid)
4 = working 2.0 days a week (16 hours, paid)
5 = working 2.5 days a week (20 hours, paid)
6 = working 3.0 days a week (24 hours, paid)
7 = working 3.5 days a week (28 hours, paid)
8 = working 4.0 days a week (32 hours, paid)
9 = working 4.5 days a week (36 hours, paid)
10 = working 5.0 or more days a week (40 + hours, paid)
Okay: 0... Go! :)
brink, see my spreadsheet.
Those calculations would only make sense in a paid by the hour wage.
I, for instance, work part-time. But my hourly billing rate is high. If I wanted to be "full-time," I'd have to work 20 hours a week.
I currently only work 3-5 hours a week. I say a three because I'm only making 1/3 of what I feasibly could be making.
But compared to someone working a retail job, I'd be like a 9. The only way to establish a ratio or a multiplier would be to devise that number based on a chart of averages.
Even though architects are generally a exempt position under the FLSA, no one should be working more than 50 hours a week.
If an employer is pushing you to work 50 hours more a week, you should be logging those hours (regardless of if you are getting paid for them). The reason for doing this is purely for liability. If your employer is making you sign 40 hours when you're clearly not working 40 hours... that is fraud.
Ok, OK, you guys are too much. I concur; let's go with bRink’s system moving forward. pdigi sorry to hear you had work cut.
0
then I will change my 2-3 to a 0.
0.00
And thus architects from far and wide can now see why we aren't engineers.
Well, I've counted four (4) 10s so far, or fully employed people. Pigeon I do not know what "20" means, is this mean you are fully employed?
10.0
10.0
good to see so many 10s!
OK, some quick math and we are at.....4.4 right now.
I wish I would have had the foresight to have done this survey 2 years ago.
To those who scored a "10" congrats and be thankful for your employment.
To those who are underemployed or a "0", keep a positive attitude and your perseverance will ultimately prevail in whatever path you choose.
“Winners never quit. Quitters never win.” – Napolean Hill
still in school...but can't wait to graduate and become a 0!
Now Washingtonian, that’s not the spirit of this thread.
Suggestion, take your skills and if you cannot find a traditional architecture job, find a way to redefine yourself.
For instance, I used to work as a "information architect" building websites.
Disclosure: I am technically a "0" also, although I have found an income stream outside of architecture.
It was unintentional to call unemployed people "0"s I hope there were not any negative connotations in that....
I am zero. Zero employed. Any other zeroes (ones?) want to work on a competition together?
0.00
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