I'm typing this on a cell phone eat shit 

Awesomekieth, The reality is that the government-guaranteed student loan/educational institution loan cartel is set up to screw you to the wall in a heartbeat. Maybe that was not the original intent, but that has become the reality. Your job is to find out how to become an architect, or participate in the industry, without getting nailed to the wall.

If you must - go to a big state school with in-state tuition and come out with little to no student loans.  That's what I did and I still struggle, despite never taking out student loans.  3 jobs in two years, at between 40-45k a year, in an expensive city.

75$

actually...between 75$ - priceless depending on what you plan on doing with it...

there are plenty of people who studied architecture and made 6 digits within 5 years. .. construction Management and development are options and then you can bail once the bank is taken care of and return to "design". there are often architects at these places who can help you get your idp stuff taken care of and the exams are only exams. It is a delusion to think you will earn this on 40 hours a week and just because you have a masters degree. It's even more of a delusion to think someone will pay you that much for your thoughts. What I have learned from wealthy clients. ..if you owe someone don't pay them, Lawyer up, settle.. after all it is only money right? 6 years forbearance on federal and private loans can be negotiated. But yes its the USA trap - military or school loans. 20 year minimum to work to break even and 20 more to prepare for retirement and 20 more till you die. ..

Awesomekieth,

If you want to work in San Francisco, CCA is a good place to go. I just finished the school last year. All my classmates are working now. Pay is pretty decent in bay area (from what I heard from some of my classmates) and we don't generally work over time. Some of my classmates even jump a couple of jobs already.

Did you receive financial aid package from CCA yet? I think you can ask for more funds from school (not department) if you apply for federal loan.

Hope that helps!

I'm ~3 years in to paying back my school loans (equivalent to about 1 yr salary) and let me say, it's not fun.  Every month that goes by, is $600 I'm not saving.  Now, I wouldn't have had the opportunities the education has opened up for me, however weighed against the increase in pay, I don't feel that it's hit a point where it's been "worth it" to me yet.  Maybe in 5 years and $10k more in salary.

Paying back the loans means having to stick with a job, whether I like it or not.  I'm not able to buy a house. I don't own a car - I have a 20 year old 10 speed.  I have a 6 year old laptop. I haven't ever been on a vacation. My fiancee (no debt) is looking into moving somewhere else in the world, but the burden of my debt is crushing that dream for her, too.

And thankfully, I'm one of the few who's been employed most of the time since I graduated. Many aren't so lucky.  Two months of unemployment would be devastating to me, and I'm not alone amongst my peers.

There's fall-out in loans. Nobody explained these things to me when I set off on my university adventure (first of my family to go to uni, they are working class and were just happy to see me get an education).  Listen to others here, they aren't blowing smoke.

HP87 - why don't you go to the PennDesign open house and ask those students how they plan to manage? The majority of them [of the US students at least] do not come from wealthy families and would probably be able to tell you a lot of information.

@spqr 

Because I can't afford it. 500-600 for a ticket to philly from Chicago is insane. 

HP - you are about to commit over six figures of debt to finance a Penn education.  Wouldn't it seem prudent to spend what is a comparatively small amount to visit the program before you commit?

HP are you in the two-year or three-year? 

Its only money in the long run

@spqr

I'm doing the three year program

@seriousquestion

good point. just bought my ticket, super excited!

Good choice HP87. You'll love it. Be sure to visit the Fine Arts Library and the Weiss/Manfredi building and Todd Williams Billie Tsien's Skirkanich Hall

Isn't there a Louis Kahn building on campus? I heard it wasn't super exciting, but I'd still like to check it out!

I'll be at Penn open house as well (that is an expensive ticket! try using sky scanner or cheap o air).  Flying out tomorrow! First thing i'm doing is getting a philly cheese steak from Pats. Architecture can come after food :P 

HP - when you visit, don't just go with the presumption that you're attending, and be mindful of the fact that admissions is trying to SELL the program to you.  ask questions about funding to students and administration alike (someone suggested that you ask students how they're paying for their education-- i think this is a good idea).  ask students what they DO NOT like about the program.  try to up the aid package you're receiving.  

How can one pull some leverage and ask to bump up the aid package? I'm just curious if that's possible- like how do schools work with the fellowship and scholarship packages? I thought they only have a set amount of them to give out...

^^

I'm curious about the same thing.  How do you go about schmoozing your way to more aid without coming off in a bad light? I was just accepted to USC and didn't get any scholarship offer, which seemed strange to me because I've gotten scholarships to all the schools that I've been accepted too.  And the admissions chick kept of telling me that they were "Very" interested in me.  I guess they were just interested in my money...I'm interested in their program, but not if I'm paying 47K a year in tuition alone.  My UPenn scholarship is also on the small side...

gosh, sorry I used the word interested so much.... ha

Don't go to Pat's. The best is from Jim's at the corner of South Street and 4th. There's also Abner's on campus which is good. Pat's is not worth the trip. Oh man Philly is awesome though

USC offered me a huge scholarship. But, I don't know, I just wasn't impressed with their graduate work. None of the faculty stood out to me either and I was shocked to find out they don't have an open house. Perhaps if I decide to decline the offer the money will trickle down. 

@seriousquestion

Don't worry, I will do all of those things. I was already planning on it, have some faith in me! :)

OH MAN philly cheesesteak for sure! YUM!

I'm international and have decided to accept my offer to an Ivy for a two-year M.Arch. II program, after some careful consideration of finances. I was very clear from the onset that I did not want to take out over 100k in loans, dream school or not, and be under the burden of crushing debt for the next 10-15 years of my life. I'd really like to live a balanced and fulfilled life in my twenties and early thirties. I would want to live reasonably, afford to take a vacation once in a while and not have to count pennies all the time. I would rather not have the tag to my name if it meant foregoing a reasonable standard of life for myself in the next few years. 

Luckily, they were kind enough to offer a reasonable amount in scholarships. Those, coupled with my savings and a bit of help from the parents, allows me to get through the first year entirely debt free. They mentioned that I can expect to have my scholarship renewed in the second year. As per my current calculations and on the assumption that I am unable to land an assistantship position in the second year,  I am looking at a maximum possible debt of $30k. I do hope to bring that figure down through work-study, but also feel that it is a fairly justifiable maximum debt for my situation.

To me, coming from where I do, this education will open up opportunities that I would have never have had with a B.Arch. degree from my undergraduate school/country. But from what I understand, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in opportunities and payscales if you have an architecture-related bachelors from the US. I've heard that undergrads can expect to start at around 40K and those with a masters degree can expect about 50K if lucky. If that is true, I feel a little surprised at the nonchalant attitude of taking out humongous amounts of loans to attend these schools and willing to trade in the next 10-15 years of your life just for a couple of years of masters. You ARE getting this degree to make money, right? So how do you feel about giving up on that very aspect for so many of the best years of your life? What is so great about an M.Arch. degree that you'll give up on a half decent lifestyle for years and years just to have the tag to your name? 

I'm really not trying to attack anyone here, just trying to get a better understanding of people's mindset and financial plans. Any thoughts?

Think of these scholarships the way you would a discount at the local car dealership. In one case the idea is to 'move the metal' in the other it is to put butts in the seats. In neither case is it worth going into poverty just so you can have the shiniest car or shiniest degree. Also beware if they take the scholarship away after the first year putting you in the position of coughing up a lot of money to finish or walking away. Have a transfer plan B ready.

30k is not bad and manageable in my opinion my friend just payed off 20k he's 29 he's not an architect either he makes 50k a year between acting and working full time as valet he's worked at hotels in the past .. I think you could come out with alot better security than him with a masters degree from an Ivy League school I would say you have nothing to worry about I am over here bumming about taking on a 100k+for a non ivy art school or sci arc .. I think your in a good position 

Thank you awesomekeith, that made me feel a bit better about this whole debt thing. I really do hope this works out for everybody here, and that we find a way to pay for our dream schools without having to give up on pretty much everything else for the next several years!

I am a total debt naysayer, but I do think that $30k is reasonable.  Just be sure that you're including living expenses in that budget!

SeriousQuestion: Yes. Thankfully my parents are being kind enough to contribute to living expenses, and a fair portion of tuition is covered through the scholarship and my own savings. Really keeping fingers crossed for assistantship/fellowship opportunities in the second year to drive down the debt figure even further! Does anyone know whether the travel studio cost is built in to the tuition? 

Rule of thumb: total debt investment should be below projected first year salary.

Student loans are bad news, I got through undergrad with out any and just two years of graduate school and 1/5 of my income ends up in the student loan repayments. You need to figure that there will be another recession while you are repaying your loans they occur on 10-15 year cycles, you can not escape student loans in bankruptcy. Teach for America and Ameri-corps, and Peace-corps are far more selective than they used to be so don't count on them for debt relief. If you want to join the army you may be in a better position and getting into an ROTC program pays for school and gives you a 4-6 year paid commitment in the armed forces, you can get IDP credits while building or destroying bunkers in Afghanistan with the Army Corps of Engineers, and in some places like Chicago it is safer to be in the army in the Middle East than in your own neighborhood. Also the Coast Guard has an ROTC and GI Bill I had a bunch of coast guard ROTC in the class I helped teach at University of Illinois Urbana Champaign, They are up in Alaska now building barracks navigation beacons and sailing ships, they get paid and they have no student loan debt. Armed forces gives you a job right out of school and if you are ROTC you are an officer so your pay grade is higher.

So consider your options, CCA is not a big well known program, but there are thousands of Armed Forces alums and if you want to be the person raking in the cash in this industry you need to be the one with the networks to bring in commissions, Veterans especially officers look out for each other.

The main thing to consider apart from the money is will this program let you study the kind of architecture you want to do, if you want to design classical mansions modeled after Renaissance villas you probably need to go to Notre Dame not Siarch or CCA.

Over and OUT

Peter N