Just a QUICK question, how affected is construction management by the economy, is it more or less affected than architecture? Reason being is I could either go for a construction management degree or an architecture/construction management degree then a master of arch, Obviously if I felt like construction management was the path for me I would just do that and not fool around with Architecture. So anybody here know how the market for management is doing?
if you ever decide to do anything other than architecture, a degree in any sort of management will be infinitely more attractive to employers than a degree in architecture.
if construction is down significantly in the economy, then, you're screwed either way. the benefit of construction management is that you can always fall back on design-build, hypothetically expanding your market base. from a purely economic view, it's not a bad a idea to have the degree to be able to work both the design and construction angle. in reality, you will become a cm and not an architect.
as far as i can tell, it's significantly down. i've been poking around construction jobs. it seems very unlikely that architects will be able to switch to construction at this time, with all the laid of construction managers out there. it is too appealing to hire people with proven experience in a given field as opposed to hiring someone who has some applicable experience that can maybe bring an additional something else to the table. i would say that construction and architecture, for the most part, are parallel, unless you want to get into building things like airstrips, military bases, non-architectural things. i wouldn't consider one to be a fallback against the other.
I second what bossman said about the what type of candidate a construction company will hire, however, if you're going to be unemployed and looking, better to be able to look for an entry level job in architecture and construction versus just one or the other. BIM knowledge both technical and theory based is growing in demand on both sides. Don't enter the job market without those skills. And sell them.
From reuters
U.S. construction industry in doldrums -survey
Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:41pm EST* Construction industry unemployment rate over 22 percent
* Outlook seen grim for 2010
By Andrew Stern
CHICAGO, Jan 20 (Reuters) - A survey of U.S. companies that build highways, buildings and sewers found nine in 10 predicting their business will not rebound in 2010 from depressed levels, a trade group said on Wednesday.
Based on the responses of some 700 contractors across the United States, 88 percent of the firms do not expect overall conditions to improve before 2011 and some will likely go out of business, the Associated General Contractors of America said.
"It means the construction industry is in for another difficult year in 2010," Stephen Sandherr, the trade group's chief executive, said in a conference call.
The industry is widely considered a bellwether for the economy as an indicator of spending on infrastructure, rebuilding and business expansion, and it has a ripple effect in terms of purchases of construction materials and equipment.
In 2009, 73 percent of firms laid off employees, averaging 39 layoffs per firm, and spending declined $137 billion to the lowest level in six years.
The survey found 30 percent of firms predicted they will add staff in 2010, while 27 percent will likely lay off workers, and the rest were unsure.
"Perhaps they can't imagine who else to let go," Sandherr said, noting unemployment in the industry was over 22 percent.
The roughly $135 billion federal government stimulus money aimed at bolstering the industry gave some one-third of contractors a lifeline, Sandherr said. But he predicted some will go out of business this year with stiff competition for fewer contracts causing them to bid at below cost.
"We never saw the stimulus as a panacea for all that ails the construction industry. We saw it as a primer for the pump," Sandherr said, adding a second stimulus bill under consideration in Washington was sorely needed.
Costs for construction materials were at historic lows, relatively speaking, which could encourage new business, the trade group's chief economist, Ken Simonson, said.
Government statistics showed the index for construction inputs such as concrete and diesel fuel rose 0.4 percent over the past year, though the index had been falling earlier in the year meaning prices were rising again, Simonson said.
construction management degree will probably give you a better income, the M.ARCH will make u more noticeable between architects. but that just my opinion
wakiko - i've seen construction management companies hired students with just architectural backgrounds only because there were strong demand for building information modeling. And the rest they picked up from their employers.
Hey 0,
It's really down right now and as someone who's in the industry (on the west coast), I can say the outlook is really bleak. In my opinion, things won't be like they were for a long, long time. Even if the economy rebounds, commercial real estate has just started to work it's way through what will be a painful correction (it takes a few years of recession for commercial stuff to really start taking its lumps).
That being said, the company I work for has several pure architecture majors that BIM it up and personally having the two degrees was helpful in getting my job during the boom times. If you just do construction management, I have to tell you that you won't get much opportunity to flex any creative muscles. It can feel lonely sometimes because the culture is very different from architecture. I do enjoy the project management side of things though.
I am planning on returning to get my masters in architecture at some point in the future. I agree with fidler that you'll most likely end up as a CM without the masters, as that's what most of my classmates did.
ok maybe i was a little too extreme when i said M.A.R.C.H. is just for showing off in fact i'll take that back, i was just trying to acknowledge and emphasize that if you become a CM and manage to build up your own company, you will probably end up with a better income than that if you would just master in Architecture and end up probably teaching at a very good school. However im not saying that it's the way it WILL turn out, i'm just saying that from my experience (no my personal experience but what i've seen) Masters in Architecture have a greater sense of acomplishment, while Construction Managers have bigger accounts in the bank.
i would highly recommend you to work a couple of years and really get to know what you like before you jump into that decision, i will depend though on how old you are and that sort of stuff because the master +work will be very time consuming and if you have a family already then even more...
I have a Masters of Architecture and in retrospec I feel it was a complete waste of time and money. While I enjoy my thesis and still have those ideas running in my subconciousness, I think it is very misleading to tell someone that they will get a greater sense of accomplishment by obtaining a M Arch than a CM degree. What is the measurement for accomplishment?
Masters of Architecture -$60k in student loans over two years
or
Work in CM +$90k and benefits over two years
or Work in Anything + 50k over two years
Jan 29, 10 10:41 am ·
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Construction Management AY?
Just a QUICK question, how affected is construction management by the economy, is it more or less affected than architecture? Reason being is I could either go for a construction management degree or an architecture/construction management degree then a master of arch, Obviously if I felt like construction management was the path for me I would just do that and not fool around with Architecture. So anybody here know how the market for management is doing?
if you ever decide to do anything other than architecture, a degree in any sort of management will be infinitely more attractive to employers than a degree in architecture.
my two sense
*cents...long day
if construction is down significantly in the economy, then, you're screwed either way. the benefit of construction management is that you can always fall back on design-build, hypothetically expanding your market base. from a purely economic view, it's not a bad a idea to have the degree to be able to work both the design and construction angle. in reality, you will become a cm and not an architect.
as far as i can tell, it's significantly down. i've been poking around construction jobs. it seems very unlikely that architects will be able to switch to construction at this time, with all the laid of construction managers out there. it is too appealing to hire people with proven experience in a given field as opposed to hiring someone who has some applicable experience that can maybe bring an additional something else to the table. i would say that construction and architecture, for the most part, are parallel, unless you want to get into building things like airstrips, military bases, non-architectural things. i wouldn't consider one to be a fallback against the other.
I second what bossman said about the what type of candidate a construction company will hire, however, if you're going to be unemployed and looking, better to be able to look for an entry level job in architecture and construction versus just one or the other. BIM knowledge both technical and theory based is growing in demand on both sides. Don't enter the job market without those skills. And sell them.
From reuters
U.S. construction industry in doldrums -survey
Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:41pm EST* Construction industry unemployment rate over 22 percent
* Outlook seen grim for 2010
By Andrew Stern
CHICAGO, Jan 20 (Reuters) - A survey of U.S. companies that build highways, buildings and sewers found nine in 10 predicting their business will not rebound in 2010 from depressed levels, a trade group said on Wednesday.
Based on the responses of some 700 contractors across the United States, 88 percent of the firms do not expect overall conditions to improve before 2011 and some will likely go out of business, the Associated General Contractors of America said.
"It means the construction industry is in for another difficult year in 2010," Stephen Sandherr, the trade group's chief executive, said in a conference call.
The industry is widely considered a bellwether for the economy as an indicator of spending on infrastructure, rebuilding and business expansion, and it has a ripple effect in terms of purchases of construction materials and equipment.
In 2009, 73 percent of firms laid off employees, averaging 39 layoffs per firm, and spending declined $137 billion to the lowest level in six years.
The survey found 30 percent of firms predicted they will add staff in 2010, while 27 percent will likely lay off workers, and the rest were unsure.
"Perhaps they can't imagine who else to let go," Sandherr said, noting unemployment in the industry was over 22 percent.
The roughly $135 billion federal government stimulus money aimed at bolstering the industry gave some one-third of contractors a lifeline, Sandherr said. But he predicted some will go out of business this year with stiff competition for fewer contracts causing them to bid at below cost.
"We never saw the stimulus as a panacea for all that ails the construction industry. We saw it as a primer for the pump," Sandherr said, adding a second stimulus bill under consideration in Washington was sorely needed.
Costs for construction materials were at historic lows, relatively speaking, which could encourage new business, the trade group's chief economist, Ken Simonson, said.
Government statistics showed the index for construction inputs such as concrete and diesel fuel rose 0.4 percent over the past year, though the index had been falling earlier in the year meaning prices were rising again, Simonson said.
construction management degree will probably give you a better income, the M.ARCH will make u more noticeable between architects. but that just my opinion
wakiko - i've seen construction management companies hired students with just architectural backgrounds only because there were strong demand for building information modeling. And the rest they picked up from their employers.
Hey 0,
It's really down right now and as someone who's in the industry (on the west coast), I can say the outlook is really bleak. In my opinion, things won't be like they were for a long, long time. Even if the economy rebounds, commercial real estate has just started to work it's way through what will be a painful correction (it takes a few years of recession for commercial stuff to really start taking its lumps).
That being said, the company I work for has several pure architecture majors that BIM it up and personally having the two degrees was helpful in getting my job during the boom times. If you just do construction management, I have to tell you that you won't get much opportunity to flex any creative muscles. It can feel lonely sometimes because the culture is very different from architecture. I do enjoy the project management side of things though.
I am planning on returning to get my masters in architecture at some point in the future. I agree with fidler that you'll most likely end up as a CM without the masters, as that's what most of my classmates did.
ok maybe i was a little too extreme when i said M.A.R.C.H. is just for showing off in fact i'll take that back, i was just trying to acknowledge and emphasize that if you become a CM and manage to build up your own company, you will probably end up with a better income than that if you would just master in Architecture and end up probably teaching at a very good school. However im not saying that it's the way it WILL turn out, i'm just saying that from my experience (no my personal experience but what i've seen) Masters in Architecture have a greater sense of acomplishment, while Construction Managers have bigger accounts in the bank.
sorry if i misled u
i would highly recommend you to work a couple of years and really get to know what you like before you jump into that decision, i will depend though on how old you are and that sort of stuff because the master +work will be very time consuming and if you have a family already then even more...
hope this helps
I concur w/ wakiko.
I have a Masters of Architecture and in retrospec I feel it was a complete waste of time and money. While I enjoy my thesis and still have those ideas running in my subconciousness, I think it is very misleading to tell someone that they will get a greater sense of accomplishment by obtaining a M Arch than a CM degree. What is the measurement for accomplishment?
Masters of Architecture -$60k in student loans over two years
or
Work in CM +$90k and benefits over two years
or Work in Anything + 50k over two years
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