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Shame on LAR / Fernando Romero! INTERN FISHING

Scout Regalia

Dear [removed],

Thank you for your interest in LAR.
Unfortunately our job opening requires someone more experienced. We could consider an internship for you. Let me know if you are interested so we can schedule an interview.

Best wishes
Director LAR*LA

Requirements / (skills)
Masters Degree in architecture (Y)
2 + years experience in internationally renowned offices (5+)
Experience in early design phases such as Concept Design and Schematic Design (Y)
Excellent conceptual and representation skills (Y)
Fluent English is required (spoken, written) (Y)
Interest and ability to create unique opportunities (Y)
Strong 3D, AutoCAD, Rhino, Adobe Suite skills.(Y,Y,Y,Y)
American work permit is a plus (Y)
















 
Jan 21, 10 3:52 am

so, what exactly is wrong with this response? its not like they say come in and interview for an UNPAID position... they just don't think that you fit the bill for the position that they're looking to fill... if you feel otherwise, go to an interview and prove them wrong.

Jan 21, 10 9:20 am  · 
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palito77

I don't know why would anybody want to work with these guys. Amazing what one single book can do.

cheers

Jan 21, 10 9:27 am  · 
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Distant Unicorn

phil, I think what's wrong with the response judging by the one-sided story we are given is that the person is more than qualified for the position.

Mind you, I do absolutely nothing of consequence. But I would have simply rejected the applicant. I would have said something along the lines of "Sorry, we do not have the budget to take on someone of your skill set at the moment. If you'd like, we would like to keep you on file and sign you up to an e-mail list to keep in touch"

Or...

"Sorry, you're simply overqualified at the moment."

But it is pretty insulting to know that you're qualified for the position and more than able to work there... to get a letter asking you to work at a level far below. Given that the applicant is already too qualified, the only acceptable method would be to offer the position to the applicant at a step below but to not fall down the staircase here.



Not to threadjack this here but I've been studying up quiet a bit on Human Resources practices. Most firms have awful HR practices. I'm assuming that's because they are getting people from their staff that don't really know anything about HR to function as HR.

There's lot of things you can get away with in a good economy. Now, employers are going to have to be really specific and really tactile with their HR practices.

Jan 21, 10 9:54 am  · 
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palito77

Unicorn

I think you are clearly describing the usual tactics LAR uses to hire employees in Mexico. You have extremely qualified talented people applying for a position is being offered and instead they counteroffer you with something below your level, and of course guess who wins here.


Sadly, but is just another sweatshop.

Dr. Loco77

Jan 21, 10 11:04 am  · 
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jbirl

I just see butts instead of yeses after your qualifications.

Not about you LA90026, just a graphic.

Maybe they deserve to be mooned by your overqualified butt...

Jan 21, 10 3:05 pm  · 
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Scout Regalia

HAHAHA (Y) More specifically, it looks like a butt with a thong!

Unicorn: Great input; Thank You.

They didn't want to hire me; totally understandable. Most companies either don't respond back at all (acceptable) or thank you for applying and let you know when the job has been filled if you aren't right for a position (vague, professional, and unprovocative).

The market is tough enough right now. I don't need a firm demoralizing me in order to tactically get me to intern for them (architphil: usually a keyword for free work).



Jan 21, 10 3:34 pm  · 
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AquillatheNun

Tell them to go fuck themselves and move on!

Jan 22, 10 12:19 am  · 
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le bossman

there's a lot more to filling a position then just meeting the requirements. maybe they like you, but they already filled it. or they have someone else in mind. maybe they have received a million applications from talented people who have three times the amount of experience you do. besides, it isn't unknown for firms to hire under or over-qualified people. most of it just seems to come down to chemistry. besides, you're lucky to get even this. you shouldn't complain.

Jan 22, 10 12:37 am  · 
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AquillatheNun

tis the season to be merry! that's my name! No shit?

Jan 22, 10 12:42 am  · 
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AquillatheNun

it seems in this day and time these guys are putting employment ads out while they wax their asses with no intent of actually hiring anyone

Jan 22, 10 12:44 am  · 
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le bossman

for my wife...god rest her soul. it was a divorce, she's out of the picture.

Jan 22, 10 12:44 am  · 
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AquillatheNun

by the way, jimmy fallon is showing a skit titled "lick it for ten" they give you ten bucks to lick random shit Hilarious

Jan 22, 10 12:45 am  · 
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Paradox

I totally agree with Le bossman. I think there were a lot of overqualified candidates for the position so that's why they came up with the excuse or they found somebody else who had connections within the firm.Also,if you only communicated with them via email then that result is to be expected..

Jan 22, 10 12:48 am  · 
 · 

unfortunately, the reality now is that there are a lot of people who are overqualified... so, if they received responses from a bunch of people who have 8-10 years experience and realized "hey, I bet we could get one of them, let's go for it!" then you would in fact be less qualified than who they ended up hiring. Not saying that their response makes immediate sense based on the job description published, but I can see how it could happen and make sense to them.

Jan 22, 10 12:50 am  · 
 · 

oh, and I'm not just saying that because I like the firm or some such thing. When I was unemployed there were a couple of jobs that I seemed plenty qualified for that got snapped up by people even more qualified. It made me realize that firms think they want one thing when they post an ad, and sometimes decide they want another when they actually sift through the resumes.

Jan 22, 10 1:01 am  · 
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Paradox

Yeah..more qualified people for the same salary=convenient.

Jan 22, 10 1:07 am  · 
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Cacaphonous Approval Bot

While I know the path some take to getting a masters can be quick and perhaps not involve a lot of office time, doesn't anyone else think the masters level intern is nuts?

Jan 22, 10 1:15 am  · 
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Distant Unicorn

Well... from my understanding, the reason this practice exist is because of the disconnect between HR and upper management.

If someone is willing to accept a job far below their qualifications, it make sense from a financial point of view to get more bang for your buck. However, this can lead to two problems; resentment and turnover.

A highly qualified applicant may accept a lesser job knowing that they will treat the job as a temporary job-- ie, a source of income til a better job is found. The resentment part comes in when an applicant may actually enjoy working at the place but is expecting rapid advancement since they already know they're above and beyond the qualifications of their jobs.

I have seen a few HR and headhunting firms promoting more rigid standards in job advertisements. For example, some are suggest that minimum and maximum job qualifications should be clearly listed in the job advertisement.

So, for an entry-level position, a better job advertisement would read "Seeking Junior Associate. Minimum Bachelor's Degree and 0.5 years relevant experience. Maximum Master's Degree and 3 years experience."

Some have gone the other route and have simply listed advertisements like this "Company ABC seeking 3 new positions. To be determined. Must have a relevant degree. Submit an introductory letter detailing qualifications and experience."

The former spells out clearly what they are looking for. The latter lets a company create positions from an applicant pool and then notify applicants of the created positions requesting for the formal cover letter and resume.

Neither of these would waste the company's time per se nor would they waste the applicant's time.

Jan 22, 10 1:17 am  · 
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AquillatheNun

not if you consider the principal that the intern is working for is likewise nuts

Jan 22, 10 1:18 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

Le bossman: I am lucky enough to get an insulting response? There is a huge pool of very qualified unemployed workers, and a small amount of jobs. This is a given. Why rationalize unethical business practices?

Jan 22, 10 3:15 am  · 
 · 
They've gone to plaid!

This thread is poor tact. You weren't what they were looking for for the position, so they are offering an internship interview as a consolation to see if you would be interested in that instead. It's presumptuous to think that they posted an ad to bait interns as I am sure they actually are looking for someone to fit their needs and office culture (not just qualifications).

Don't take this the wrong way, since I'm sure you're a swell person, and you deserve a job that's right for you, but there are more productive ways to vent your frustration. Given this economic climate, the last thing we need is another cesspool of negativity. I don't work for LAR, and don't really know much about them except from what I've seen on their webpage, but posting a private correspondence in order to attack a firm or specific person under anonymity because you didn't get what you want is unprofessional.

Let's keep it classy.

Jan 22, 10 3:30 am  · 
 · 
They've gone to plaid!

p.s. Your presumption of what they are doing is unethical, but I don't think they have actually done anything that is unethical. It was just an email. It wasn't as if you flew across the country for an interview or anything.

Jan 22, 10 3:41 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

I feel this is/was a very productive way to publicly and professionaly discuss (in my oppinion) bad protocol, as you are allowed to your own interpretation. It's called a discussion forum after all.

Jan 22, 10 3:50 am  · 
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They've gone to plaid!

Fair enough, but I think if this were about protocol, perhaps the firm name should have been left out? Calling LAR out specifically for what may just be a misunderstanding is what I consider unprofessional. Also, the director of LAR LA probably has a name that can easily be found too. I don't think they were given a fair shake here.

Jan 22, 10 3:57 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

Plaid: please read MY posts again and elaborate on what you think I am unethical on.

Jan 22, 10 3:58 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

I think LAR was deserving of being called out. I honestly think what they did was wrong. Enough to post about it. I have also never had this reaction to the hundreds of jobs I have applied to over the years.

Jan 22, 10 4:05 am  · 
 · 
They've gone to plaid!

you haven't done anything unethical. just poor tact.

a. "Shame on LAR / Fernando Romero! INTERN FISHING" - you are accusing a specific firm and person of intern fishing or of a bait and switch under anonymity without proof that they are actually doing it. Someone else could have gotten an email saying "come in to interview for this position. we think you match our needs"

b. "Unfortunately our job opening requires someone more experienced." the word experience could mean many things, not just years... experience in conceptual design, experience in ball room dancing, whatever, it's up to them to decide the type of experience they are looking for.

c. the fact that the person who wrote you the email in confidence (which all emails are unless it's spam) does not have the chance to defend or clarify his/her intent. i find this unfair.

Jan 22, 10 4:10 am  · 
 · 
They've gone to plaid!

oh and to clarify "your presumption of what they are doing is unethical" i have reread and see how it can be misinterpreted. not saying YOU are being unethical, but the act they you are presuming THEY are doing, that is, a bait and switch, is in fact unethical, but my point is there is no way to prove that is what they are doing.

See what I mean by misunderstanding?

Jan 22, 10 4:26 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

So you do in fact retract calling me unethical?

A. Open for interpretation. LAR / F.R. Is the name of the firm. They asked me to interview for an internship! I did my intern time years ago. Interpret it anyway you want.

B. Then don't ask me to intern.

In regards to C. I left his/her actual name off the public post.

If you don't want to hire someone don't respond back fishing around about internships!

Jan 22, 10 4:28 am  · 
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They've gone to plaid!

yes, i never intended to call you unethical so i clarified my point.

and believe me, i understand your frustration, and LAR may in fact be the devil, and may in fact be trying to fish interns, but judging from that email and the situation (architphil agrees with me) it is not certainly the case. and since it's not certain, i don't think you can definitively accuse someone of doing it.

Jan 22, 10 4:38 am  · 
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They've gone to plaid!

p.s. all this could have been squashed with an email reply "no".

Jan 22, 10 4:39 am  · 
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Scout Regalia

Exactly!

Jan 22, 10 4:42 am  · 
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gaas

I went for an interview there... and it was a joke! A 3 minutes interview...And he was VERY impressed about the fact that I told him that I was happy for being in los angeles, working, studying, learning...and it seems that he doesn´t think that los angeles is THAT great after all...So he just kept saying : Really??? do you think that the experience to work in los angeles is good for you as a professional??? really???
He said that making faces as if this was the most disgusting thing someone could have said.

This is what happens you are, by the way, related to one of the most rich persons in the world.

Jan 22, 10 3:06 pm  · 
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palito77

Gaas

If that's the respond you got from him about LA, imagine what would be the response for anybody going to interview with him in Mexico.

This guy Fernando and his Laboratorio de Architectura de Kaka is another wannabe, iberoamericana rich kid with loads of money and looking for additional international glamour since the one he is getting in Mexico is not enough. Shit I was my dad was Carlos Slim.

Dr Loco77

Jan 22, 10 3:23 pm  · 
 · 
Cherith Cutestory

_

My favorite parts of the original job post:

2 + years experience in internationally renowned offices
Why? So the 5 years I have worked in offices that actually build something is useless.

Interest and ability to create unique opportunities
What does this even mean?

Seriously, I think more people should vent their frustrations with some of the over-the-top job posts these days, from the overly vague to the 4 pages of qualifications. Honestly, who do these offices think they are? Were not secret agents so not listing the office name in the ad is not really helping anyone. Or in this case listing qualifications that clearly have no basis in a potential job hire.

Personally I think they were hoping to get someone with twice the qualifications for the money they would pay for the actual listed job. I can't wait for the day when the economy does resurface and all the offices who went about underpaying their employees suddenly have a lot of empty desks.

Jan 22, 10 5:00 pm  · 
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StarvingDesigner

I actually got the exact same email and came in for an interview. According to the interviewer, the internship is unpaid for three months, after which you are evaluated for a possible new position depending on performance. There are a handful of interns there now. I am still debating on taking it to get back into the professional world and brush up my skills...I've been looking for work for almost four months.

Jan 22, 10 6:22 pm  · 
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rob(E)

never. ever. work for free. it under mines the profession. If you want to work for free, do a competition with friends. When you work for free, you bring down the others who will not work for free. If firms can get a way with not paying (which is blatanlty illegal both in the usa and aia) then they will continue doing so. It also tells this person you do not value your skills...which inturn makes them less likely to ever transition into a paid position.
my dos cents. This guy has a for profit firm...hes not some professor doing a conceptual project about relief solutions in haiti. He is making money. So do not work for free for him. period.

Jan 22, 10 7:30 pm  · 
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StarvingDesigner

@ rob(E): I do agree, I've always been against unpaid internships. I used to think that it didn't even happen anymore and was surprised to find out how often it does. This is the second "offer" for unpaid work I've gotten in the last few months in the LA area. Very frustrating.

Jan 22, 10 7:58 pm  · 
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Cacaphonous Approval Bot

So do teachers at BAC get paid? If not are they undermining the opportunities for educators?
You can give it away for a cause you like, but make sure it's something worthwhile or that it's a good investment.

Jan 22, 10 9:21 pm  · 
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rev1

I was offered a job at LAR last year and they asked me to leave a world renowned office to work for them in Mexico for 2 months unpaid .....after this they were going to give me a 'financial offer'......which they couldnt even suggest a ball park figure for? Needless to say it all was a little too fishy and I stayed put!

Jan 25, 10 8:59 am  · 
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palito77

I really don't know what's the big fuzz working for this guy, fernando LAR.

He has not done any significant project that I can see of any value. And all he does is leeches on the people who work for him, with a crappy salary, and of course you are still below him. Welcome to his world, damm amazing what one book does.

Screw LAR.

Jan 25, 10 12:21 pm  · 
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ThinkRevit

Isn't the idea to teach and mentor interns?

Jan 26, 10 8:27 am  · 
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Cacaphonous Approval Bot

perhaps, but mostly what happens is cheap labor with zero mentoring.
not everywhere, i suppose.

Jan 27, 10 9:42 pm  · 
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TheFreshestWater

I had the same experience. Was brought in for an interview on the pretense of discussing an entry level, full time position. The interviewer then proceeded to say that she was looking for someone with very specific software skills. (I asked her to specify which ones, and she listed three programs that I know very well and were on my resume!) But she "loved my ideas" and offered the 3 month unpaid "trail period."

Its insulting, after going into several hundred thousand dollars of debt and spending five years of my life getting a professional education, to be asked to work for free. And it seems awfully shady to act as though an interview is for one position....which I'm not even sure exists, when in reality, its an intern they are looking for. Why don't they just post for an unpaid internship?

Boo LAR/FR!!!

Feb 11, 10 2:55 pm  · 
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Pathetique

My name was Pathetique when I opened the door.
I didn't see when I stepped half-inch down and
struck my heel on the unfinished structural slab.

I saw a small white table and extension cords across the floor.
I thought I was going to get raped.
I sat for hours at an oriented stand board table, where
frightened eyes peered through awkward hopeful faces.

His book was on the table. It was about the border.
I opened it, but it was not really a book--a collection of
random text and statistics themed:
"We're going to be half of you by 2050.
We're going to erase your border!"

The great Fernando called me through his proxies.
For a moment, I was hopeful, too.
He took three minutes to take my pride,
and that was all I had.

Call me, Fernando. I close my eyes.
I run my nails through your greasy slicked back hair
while you climb me like a tree with your tiny chicken legs.
Call me.

Feb 12, 10 9:04 pm  · 
 · 

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