It might depend on what you wanted to do after graduation. If you want to stay in NY, then Pratt (even with the debt) may be worth it. If NY isn’t that important to you, then maybe going back home and lowering your potential debt might be the best plan. Debt is a major hindrance on recent grads (myself included) but it is manageable.

I recently said this in another thread, but it got deleted, so I will put it out there again:

I have 100k debt. That translates into about +/- 670 a month over 25 years.

Even with making 36k a year, I can still afford to pay it off and put some money towards savings and all my other obligations.

Student loan debt sucks, but if you plan for it and live responsibly with it, then it is totally do-able.

Figure out your projected income to debt ratio, and see if all the debt is worth the sacrifice. It is easy to say that 150k is too much of a burden, but you won’t know with any level of certainty until you look at all your finances in detail.

At the end of the day, it comes down to X-amount per month. What ever that number is will determine if this is do-able for you or not.

good luck

Rosebot - I was at SCIArc during the mid 80's when tuition was less than $3000 per semester. I lived with my family and made $11/hr w/o benefits as an part-time intern while going to schoool. After graduation I made $30k/yr w/o benefits. It took almost 20 years for me to make over $100k w/ benefits. My salary is about 15-20% under the amount that a male in the firm made with the same qualifications. I have been unemployed for almost 9 months. I've made it through every other recession unscathed, but many others have not.

Today SCIArc's tuition costs 4 times more than it did in the 80's. The last graduate hired at my former firm started at $40k/yr. She has a masters from GSD. She started at the same amount as another person with a bachelor of arts in architecture. This was at a corporate architecture firm. By the time you graduate the economy should be running normally, but we tend to have recessions every 8-10 years.

Only you can decide whether or not a degree from Pratt would be worth the debt, as you are the one who will be paying the debt for quite a while. If you have residency in WA, it may be worth considering an undergrad degree from UW and a masters from Pratt as a financial compromise? The only advice I can give you is whatever you decide, don't look back and "what if" yourself. It will drive you mad.

Thank you both for your words and advice. It's a tough issue to decide. I think my plan at this point is to apply to UW, see if I get in, and then go from there...

There is good debt and bad debt. Don't be afraid to borrow a little to get you what you really want. Your education is with you forever.


That said, I'd look hard at how you can make more money later on in life. Architect's are going in and coming out of school like they always have, and given the current economic state and uncertain future, I can't see how that's a good bet.

I would tell anyone to hedge their dream job with something that will offer greater flexibility and financial reward, should you need to take that route.

I would absolutely, totally urge you to save your money at all costs. I learned this lesson the (very) hard way as have many of my peers, and we are deeply regretting our decisions now. UW has a decent rep. It's not like you're picking between Columbia & the U of Wasilla. One thing I have learned is that the school you went to means much less than I thought it would, which (in my case) is a good thing -- your portfolio pretty much trumps anything. What someone said above is a good point regarding whether or not you want to practice in NYC after college -- the reason being, you make great contacts among your faculty (and even peers), and that network tends to remain primarily local. A similar network would benefit you if you went to school at UW and then wanted to practice in Seattle following graduation. I'm not sure how wide a net Pratt casts for it's faculty, but it is possible that you may get a slightly more national network from Pratt than UW; however, again, the quality of your portfolio is key. Therefore I really don't think the differences in the two schools is necessarily as big a deal as you might think it is. Again, it's not Columbia v. U of Wasilla.

The thing about student loan debt is that a lot of people will tell you "it's fine, it's low rate, it's no big deal -- everyone has it!" but these people most likely have never taken out anywhere near the sums we are expected to nowadays. My parents were very encouraging of me taking on debt to attend the school I wanted most, because they paid their student loans off in under 5 years on a single tradesman's salary. The kind of debt students are taking out today is in another ballpark. It is preventing me from saving for a home, which I desperately want so that I can begin my family. It is preventing me from taking risks with employment (for example, you can't work for pittance for a starchitect if you have $500 of loan payments to make every month. You might just have to take that corporate job.) Those loans don't go away even if you move to a town with a cheap cost of living, meaning your choices of where to move to are restricted (I can't live in the town I would like to, because wages are too low to sustain my student loan payments). It is preventing me from doing aid work abroad for the same reason, which is a goal I have always held. Having that debt payment over your head affects you over and over again in myriad small, difficult decisions for years and years. I am so, so tired of it.

And you know what? I probably have less than half the debt you are proposing here -- about $60k. And I pull a good wage, consistently paid in the middle of the pack for my experience level, and have very few expenses (no car, no fancy clothes, no fancy travel). I have worked continuously with no downtimes for years. Trust me, student loan debt is not to be shrugged off lightly.

btw, I agree with Trace. Borrowing a little to achieve your dream is a great investment. Borrowing over $100,000, however, is enslaving your future. That is the kind of amount people bankrupt themselves over.

Keep in mind that if you do well enough in undergrad you can get some serious money for grad school. Pratt has a great program but so does UW, I have a lot of friends that would kill to go there. My advice is to go to UW and position yourself to attend a fantastic grad program. Keep in mind that you can move to Cali for a year and get in state tuition for UCLA and UCB. I attended the University of Cincinnati for my undergrad and moved a year early to avoid the out of state costs (I am not recommending that you attend UC btw).

I have seen a lot of friends recklessly take on loans who have not taken on enough adult roles to realize the ramifications. I think 100k total is possible, 100k for undergrad alone is irresponsible.

Seems to me that if you go from Pratt to UW to wherever for grad school that you will have a nicely diverse background and besides, if Pratt will cost you 3x the amount that UW would, are you getting 3x the quality of education? I doubt it.

I picked a school primarily on cost. Now that I've graduated, logged a decade of experience and am fully registered nobody really cares where my degree came from. This job is more about what you make of it working, and not where your diploma comes from. Sure, Ivy grads like to talk up their "connections" but in the long run I truly think it's a wash.

Additionally, fresh out with little to no experience I was able to score interviews and offers from firms in major east coast cities that had hardly heard of my little known state school. An MArch isn't like an MBA where the eliteness of the school equals more $$$ so I would always suggest the more economical approach.

this is a lot of good food for thought. As much as I'd like to put my head in the sand and tell myself what I'm doing is ok, I really think it's not. It's possible if I got extra scholarships to attempt to cover my personal finances while in school, but you can't count on getting outside scholarships. I know one thing for sure, that I don't want to work in a corporate office after graduating. maybe for a short period it would be ok, but I don't want to have to take certain types of jobs just to pay off my debt. I realize that may happen for a little bit though. But I simply don't function in those environments, I get found out as an uncooperative outsider pretty quick! What I really want to do is be able to work on things like public housing and spaces, community projects etc. Not a lot of $ I know, but it's what I'm interested in.

I guess I really should just consider myself lucky that I even have the option of a free place to live while in school. My parents may not have any money to give me, but if they gave me that, it would mean more than having payed for my tuition, when all the private loan numbers were crunched.

And to top it off, after living in NYC for 9 yrs. I love it, but I deeply miss the west coast and see my future there. Looks like I have my answers...

Aquapura makes a great point -- remember, you will make NOT ONE PENNY MORE due to your school name. At best, the connections may help you land an interview; your portfolio will still get you the job. I also scored plenty of interviews and great jobs without connections. You have to be able to focus on studio enough to get a great portfolio together. Your ability to design is what counts. And if you are constantly stressed in studio by the background noise of how much money is flowing into your future debt column, then you're not going to be able to do as good a job in studio.

There is no way Pratt is 3x as good as UW. Again, we're not comparing gold to tin, here.

Honestly, I sincerely wish people had shared these views with me when I was a student. Having seen (and juried at) a couple "cheap" schools since then I really could have gotten just as great an education for a lot less money. I didn't know.

msmit106, you did your undergrad at UC? How long ago? Why wouldn't you recommend it?

jk3hl, just graduated. I would not recommend it over UW or Pratt. So my advice was specific to Rosebot. UC does not accept undergrad students based on Portfolio, in fact, no portfolio is submitted in the application. It is highly selective, but almost exclusively based off GPA and test scores. You can imagine what this means in terms of the student body. A lot of bright kids but not a lot of artistic ones. Your portfolio could be the best that mankind has ever seen but if you have a 3.0 you can forget about going there.

The majority of the best faculty only teach at the grad level so I would recommend that before I would the undergrad except for the fact that UC only has limited spots for graduate students from other schools. This year was the first year that they required UC undergraduate students to submit a portfolio for graduate admittance although if they had above a 3.2 they were automatically accepted.

UC does require that you do a certain amount of internships before graduating which is a very cool requirement but you can do that at other schools if you are motivated enough to do it on your own.

Are you planning on UC jk3hl? For certain people I would give it a recommendation. Just not those who have a passion for the designing part of architecture, which rosebot appears to have.

jk3hl, I just saw your blog. You attend UC so I just wasted my time with that post. Planning on staying for grad school? We probably know each other. Maybe you have enjoyed UC more than I did.

I really doubt pratt provides better education than UW does, but I am pretty much sure financially being free is way more important than choosing pratt's education system over UW's.

It is a illusory optimism that, graduating with hundreds of thousands of debts, architecture students think they can be a "star" or financially successful. Even if you are a genious you still need really good luck. Such illusory optimism is beneficial only for those who are willing to use such optimism to sustain their "business" or "fame".
Not to mention in architecture, debts should be the least choice even for the graduates from law schools and medical schools.

Upgrading social class is really difficult, not to mention in architecture.
Financial debts will socially even more enslave you.

Given your time at Pratt, you could probably net some scholarships from UW - save you some extra money.

I am going for my masters in TX. Looking at two UT schools - in state tuition under $6k a semester (we are moving there in a few months; I'm planning on starting next fall). I want to get into UT Austin, but think I will be pretty happy at UTSA. As an industrial designer with 6 years professional experience I know portfolio is king and it's all what you make of it.

I couldn't attend school in Los Angeles where I currently live. I could go to Cal State Pomona, but cost of living and the fact that both my wife and I are unemployed.

If you want the glitzy design experience and save some money, leave Pratt, work hard at UWash and make a great portfolio and get a M Arch II at a top tier school.

yeah but the whole point of my going to UW is to finish undergrad and get the masters there, to save money. At this point I'm sick of transferring schools, 3rd time has to be the charm! And UW seems pretty underwhelmed at my having gone to Pratt, they haven't seen my portfolio yet, but you have to first apply to the school, then the arch program. I've been told I have strikes against me because I'm out of state right now, even though I grew up and my whole family lives in Seattle. As well as the fact that I'm already in a arch program, and not at a point of last resort. wow. I get that they want to support in state people, and that's they way it should be, but they are practically discouraging me from applying, well not quite, but they aren't encouraging me either.

Just do it (UW). You'll feel a lot better when you're not burning through cash like crazy. Whats the price difference between in state and out of state tuition at UW?

I completely disagree with dismissing a school's quality based on 'that it won't matter in ten years out of school'.

A school is 'good' not based on a it's name and reputation, although those help, but based on the quality of the education. I have no doubt, zero, zip, notta, that I would have never released any talent if I had not gone to UF (and a summer at RISD). Even then, it took two full years, (5 design semesters, one wasted year at Wentworth) to tap into my potential.

I 100% contribute that to the quality of my professors and classmates.



I am just saying that a school shapes your entire future, not just a name that can help you get a first job.

I borrowed as much as anyone I know, but I do not regret my choices for second. All I wish is I had worked summers (working during school is questionable, imho) and got an MBA also.

Paying off that debt is not fun, but it is also nothing more than a slight inconvenience at this point.



Just something to keep in mind.



*I do not know the quality of Pratt vs. UW, however, that you to figure out.

well youre talking about your choices as being all or nothing. one option is staying at pratt having a good design experience but being burdened with lots of debt and the other is saving money at UWash and being underwhelmed with the program there. The way you describe them they seem like both losing propositions.

I would consider some kind of hedged scenario where you try to meet both conditions. Additionally getting yr BArch and Masters from the same school is generally not the greatest idea bc of the redundancy.

Another alternative is getting BArch from Washington and working for a bit getting residency out of state (not sure what the rules are now) and gaining acceptance to MArch program at a good state school.

Either way, theres a big difference in cost btw a 5 yr degree (w what sounds like minimal financial aid from yr situation) and the cost of a 5 yr public degree and 1 or 1.5 yr masters program.

Besides you might be surprised at the aid that is available in some masters programs. If you have been independent for a while, getting a big discount in tuition (i.e. MIT, GSD, Princeton) is not uncommon.

I'm gonna get shit for saying this on this conservative, "financially responsible" message board...but you need to stay at Pratt if that's where you want to be. Very simple. Don't move in with the parents, don't switch schools, don't be suckered into believing a move back to UW will still not bankrupt you. Because it will. Thousands of us have gone through it...it's not fun looking at all those loans add up, accrue interest, and threaten financial stability. But many many many of us have dealt with it and continue to do so without serious problems.

As long as you can afford to make ends meet while in school, I say stay where you want to and deal with repayment later.

Seriously. When you get out of school, select the minimal payment possible for your loans. Extend it to a 30 year payment plan. Your monthly payments will be a 3 or 4 hundred bucks a month. Half the people you talk to will recommend trying to pay off your loans as soon as possible and end up having enormous monthly payments so they reduce the amount of interest that accrues over time. But, truth is that this is the financially irresponsible thing to do if you're this much in debt because it doesn't account for inflation over the years and it doesn't allow you to save up any money to make personal investments (such as buying a house/apt). I realize this level of detail is nothing you're thinking of right now in your life, but this detail can help justify the decision to do what you really want to do...which is obviously to stay in NYC, go to Pratt, and leave UW to the other "financially responsible" dwellers out there.

My 2 cents.

probably should have reviewed your cost of tuition prior to attending and added up some numbers...

and people wonder why they are in debt over their heads.... TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONES".....

Oh yeah...and stay away from crowbar wielding thugs blocks away from Pratt.

There is also 'only so much you can borrow'. I know student loans usually don't cover all your tuition. It sounds like you are talking about a lot of credit card debt. Racking up 100k in CC debt is not responsible borrowing.

If you can keep going through school you could declare bankruptcy when you're done...? Just don't try to buy a house or a new car for seven years afterwards.

Well actually all of this moot w/o the numbers.

Im still sitting on 50k of grad school loans at 3.75% on I think a 25yr plan. Comes out to $330/ mo. Having this money free for investment is definitely worth it for me so I only pay the min.

If you got 100k, at a less friendly interest rate at say 7%(once you factor in the personal loans..I have no idea what yr at..) you are at $660ish. That number could pinch some ppl a bit right out of school.

I felt a bit squeezed right out of school but am sure I wouldve been pretty damn uncomfortable if my loan payments were double.

Really depends on what yr situation is. FP brought up a good pt bout inflation. But thats assuming yr rate is low and the payments wont be a major issue.

wow. I'm really not sure how to make a competent decision. I'll just say that when I first took out the personal loan last fall, they(lender) send you a statement saying IF you make the minimum payments and borrow the same amount for all 5 yrs of schooling you will end up paying(including interest etc...) $500,000. Ok, so now you know what I'm talking about. and that doesn't include 1 penny of my actually student loans.
So obviously I had a semi nervous breakdown, but I was convinced by those around me and my school that this is what you have to do these days, that education is worth it, etc...

I have worried about it ever since.

So, what if I finish my BA at The New School and then were to Apply to UW for my masters in arch? Suddenly for some reason that seems really genius. I probably have almost enough credits to graduate at this point, and I can design my own curriculum there. I wonder if a more traditional U like UW frowns on Liberal schools like Parsons/ new school. Plus with the hours they have, that would mean I could work while in school, whish is what's making me so broke this past year, not having ANY time for a job. .....



AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Do you need a masters? Maybe you should skimp on that if you're staying at Pratt.

cut your losses ....

What is an education worth if you never make back what you spent? Especially to that extreme. What did you use a collateral on the loan? They'll repo that if you declare bankruptcy.

I don't plan on declaring bankruptcy and I'm trying to make choices now to stop the hemorrhaging. My parents were my co-signers and that's it.

And no, you don't need a masters with the Pratt degree. But staying there would cost me way more that transferring elsewhere to finish my BA and then getting a masters. Sad but true.

Appointment with the New School/Parsons tomorrow. I've already been a student there, wonder if I would even have to apply? I'll find out. thanks to everyone for their input!

are you working?

No disrespect to you Rosebot, but does it seem to others also that there is a high degree of martyrdom in architecture? Willing to take on 1/2 a million bucks for education? For what?

part of the reason why we're in this damn recession and why some of my former colleagues are filing for bankruptcy and foreclosing on their homes is because of all their effing debt.

any brain-washing about "...debt is ok, not to worry - it's part of life, everyone has it" is an american scam. it's not worth it.

minimize your debt, get your education at any reputable school, be thankful to your parents for their assistance.

Many of the people on this thread are still living in a dream world...possibly one that was created in 2006 when design jobs were falling off of trees like ripe apples. Yes, debt is bad, very bad and as someone who has more of it than anyone on this thread has mentioned, I would never recommend overburdening yourself. However, there are almost NO jobs out there, none. This whole attitude of "in ten years it won't matter what school you went to" is ridiculous because in ten years you won't be an architect if you can't get a job within a reasonable amount of time after graduation. Just ask anyone who graduated in 1991...if you can find them, and they probably won't be architects anymore.

Bottom line, go to the school that will give you the skills an employer wants and you will have a better chance of getting hired. Connections help; talent, design ability and software proficiency will get you the job. The name of the game now is digital software and Pratt will offer more education in this area than UW. Furthermore, the Seattle job market is a graveyard for architects and you have a much better chance of getting a job in new york. Remember, you will be fighting for limited jobs after graduation and you need to have a strong educational background and a variety of skills to compete. Afterall, how will you pay this debt without a job? Also, there are payment plans, forebearance options, economic hardship deferments and low interest loan consolidation to help you out with the payments. You will even take a tax break on the interest for these loan payments so relax.

As far as martyrdom in architecture for high education costs, just remember there is little difference between the cost of education for lawyers, doctors and other post professional degree graduates and us. They just make more after graduation. Put your loans into forbearance after graduation for two years, pay off your credit card debt in that time and relax...trust me this works. I graduated from graduate school on the brink of bankruptcy and two years later had it all sorted out, massive credit card debt paid off and living comfortably in nyc.

"The name of the game now is digital software and Pratt will offer more education in this area than UW"

And that extra bit of education is worth the difference? I think not. Supplement what ever you are'nt being provided for with your own learning or other external courses.

Now, I must provide some background on this. I am not an American, don't live there, and I have my degree from an Australian school, with some NZ school experience.

Our student loan system here requires repayments of 10% of your income above a certain level once you have graduated, and in I think 2005, the government stopped charging interest on loan amounts. Which is great.

But having started tertiary eduation in 1995, I had already racked up approximately $60k in student loans by the time this kicked in. Now tuition in NZ and Australia is cheap compared to US standards. I havent looked recently, but it might be approximately $5-6000 per semester for tuition in either country for most courses.

So the idea of racking up $500k in debt for education is not only anathema, it is impossible here. I have heard of doctors here racking up say $120k in tution and living expenses, but thats at the top end of the scale.

Another thing, even though I am capable of paying back the loan, it will still take me at least 6 years to pay off the remaining loan, with 6 years already in. Not good if you decide to have a family, build a house, etc etc.

Debt is not good.

"any brain-washing about ...debt is ok, not to worry - it's part of life, everyone has it" is an american scam. it's not worth it."

"Xaia" is totally right.

Debts is american capitalism's scam.

With hundreds of thousands of debts, in architecture profession, the only thing you can do after graduation would be an employee in a "corporate firm" or a developer company, no matter how much talented you are and no matter how good school you went.
In every corporate firm, there are already tens of GSD, Prinston, Yale, and Mit who have to pay their debts...

Just calculate how much your interest from your debt is going to be and how much you have to earn money to pay only for interest.
And just consider if you can pay even the interest with 25,000~30,000$/yr that you could make from a "STAR" firm living in "NEW YORk CITY".

Until you pay reasonable amount of your debt and being free from your obligation, education you "think" you have had is not yours but "banks".

Yeah I'm not sold on the idea that only Pratt can equip me with the latest things. I don't live in a bubble, when new things happen, get a cracked copy and start learning. I will say though, that having been there makes me realize how quick things in the design world move and that you need to keep up. I figure if I'm learning nearly all CS3 programs, autocad and Rhino in my first year I'm off to a good start. next stop maya...

With that kind of personal drive, who needs a fancy school. Seriously. And there some really decent state schools too.

thanks. that's the mode I'm in now. I feel like now that the door has been opened I know what I want, I know I can do good work, why not not get ripped off in the process?! Now I'm just pondering getting a fast and quick BA from the New School and then applying to Grad. Then: kick ass.

Once again, debt is not good, no one said that it is. However, if you want to be an architect there has to be more to consider than just debt...if there wasn't, no one would go into the profession in the first place. How about we consider personal fulfillment, having an impact on society, designing the physical environment of the future. Education is NOT a formality, its an attitude, a design culture that you are inducted into and one should approach it with a little more ambition and idealism than you would approach buying a bottle of laundry detergent (trying to get the cheapest one). Supplementary digital education is never going to be as good as having it integrated within a comprehensive design program. In a job market with few options, graduates will have to hit the ground running if they want to break into the field. School name recognition, contacts, quality of education are not frivolous bonuses, they are essential to compete and they may come with a higher price. This is price of being an architect. Accounting is a completely different profession.

Debt is not bad, either.

A debtless economy would look quite different as it would be closer to a cash economy-- think American Old West, parts of Southeast Asia, even parts of Eastern Europe, large parts of the Indian subcontinent, most of Africa.

Without debt, it is hard to advance through accruing it on your own. Debt is in the simplest terms hogging all the resources available over what you perceive the be a good idea.

One can think of debt this way-- "Community A" harvests a set amount of firewood annually to use for warmth. "Community A" also has a high rate of infectious diseases. "Person B" comes up with the idea that if you boil water, and thereby spending more firewood, less people will die and "Community A" will suffer less deaths. Convincing "Community A" that there will be less firewood for warmth is terrifying. Although boiling water will work, it will take a few months for the solution to fully mature. "Community A" then realizes that going cold a little while and spending wood on clean water means that more people will be able to gather firewood next year.

So all in all, allocating resources proved to have minimal risk with a maximum reward.

Where this becomes an issue is that the "education" we're indebting ourselves for isn't really worth the risk. The economy is kind of saying that right now.

The US, not necessarily unlike the rest of the World, is slow to accept "new things." This, of course, means it is resistant to change and new jobs don't always necessarily "open up" immediately.

Education can be a horrible thing if people don't buy into it and if markets aren't willing to buy or consume more expensive goods and services.

So, perhaps you really shouldn't waste your money on getting a Le Gordon Bleu culinary education to make canapies to people who prefer Krispy Kremes.

I think a)education is overrated, b)there's too much supply for the demand, c)the products don't warrant the price, d)the demand is comprised of idiots, e)there's far too much overachieving-- Straight Cs 7 decades ago was considered a "stellar student", f)job creation efforts in the US produce marginal jobs that most people detest, g)the quality of the urban environment has so rapidly transformed, no one really knows how anything works, h)everything is patented, so why fucking bother, i)most universities are diploma mills and j)the internet pretty much ruins everything it touches.

rosebud - good to see that you're getting good feedback from the archinect community.

i didn't know that you were going through THAT much debt. personally i don't think it's worth it, especially because its an undergraduate education. i'd put 100k in for m.arch (and i'm pretty sure that i will), partly for prestige, but more so for the program, network, and experience.

otis I agree with what you're saying for the most part, but I'm talking $500,000 in debt. that is a lot to swallow. Most importantly I do NOT want to have to take some corporate job for a long time just to pay my bills. Even if I wanted to, it wouldn't work, me and corporate environments go together like oil and water. Fortunately for me I'm older than the average student, I have life experience, I've made things, held interesting jobs; so I'm not completely dependent on a school program to open me up to the world and thoughtfulness. I'm already open, inspiration is everywhere, one only need tap it. Also I don't want to stay in NYC forever, I miss the west and want to work primarily with green ideas and projects. The west is hands down better for that. Plus there is actually room to build out there. I refuse to be afraid of not getting the best education, because that is in my control, not the school's.

Orochi,

Your are right.
Basically debts are not a "devil".
The whole capitalism sustains on the ground of debt system.
I don't think capitalism itself is not a devil.

However, what we are talking about here is a relationship in capitalism we are belonging to where banks increase their capital from our debts.

In this case, unfortunately, debt is a really good thing for banks and a really bad thing for us.

Sorry for my poor english...

Here is a correction.

"I don't think capitalism itself is not a devil."
------>
"I don't think capitalism itself is a devil."

It would be neat for someone to do a survey/graph to show how people are spending on their architecture education and how much they're actually making.

That WOULD be interesting, tasslehawf.

For the record, I agree with trace in that your education *is* important, and it is true that some schools will be a better fit for some people than others. But both Pratt AND UW have solid reps, so in this case for me it would come down to the more detailled personal preferences ("am i interested in such-and-such? if so, does this school offer it?" etc.) and those really sound like they are being trumped for Rosebot by the constant nagging worry over how much money he/she is spending. Or at least that's what it seems like. But I do agree -- some schools ARE better fits for some people, and that shouldn't be discounted. But for me all that goes out the window when you are mortgaging your future for what may, in the end, be only subtle or minor differences in pedagogy.

Hey mismit106. UC was an excellent fit for me in undergrad - out of high school I was a very left-brained, logic-oriented individual with very little design/artistic experience. So, the program really gave me a chance.

But yea, I'm seriously considering continuing in their grad program. Mostly because of their reputation (2/10 D.I.), the co-op program, and the extremely low cost of tuition (being in-state).

Some east coast schools are alluring prospects, but I'm extremely hesitant to saddle myself with tons of debt for the promise of 'connections' - especially when UC's co-op program gives me tangible connections in a much more direct way.

Anyways, that's my reasoning for now. Alot of people have been telling me grad school is about branching out, finding a new place, broadening horizons, etc, but... i don't know! =/

The problem with the economy and people's mentality is that they have to have everything. Borrow for a car, borrow for a tv, etc., etc.

I have two debts, my student loan (which I could pay off, should I need to) and my mortgage. Everything else I saved and saved and paid for in cash (including my car, which is my current dream car, so I am quite happy with it).


You also have to consider where you'll be after you graduate, but don't plan 100%, stay flexible. I thought I'd love LA and hate NY, so I turned down Columbia for UCLA. Turns out, LA sucks hard and NY looks much nicer, but neither place is somewhere that is financially doable long term.

So look around and think about how you will settle in. Seattle is already reasonable - great city, not too expensive, growing rapidly, progress architecture, etc. NY is probably not a real possibility without living on the street (how architect's survive there is beyond me).



Borrowing for school is an investment, unlike borrowing for a car or new tv (which is stupid, imho). You need to weigh how much it is worth to you.

Peronsally, I'd get your barch from Pratt, then get a MSRED/MARCH from somewhere else. That's me, though.

Rosebot- Was this a joke: "but I'm talking $500,000 in debt. that is a lot to swallow."

500,000 (even at a good interest) rate is 3300 per month for 25 years.

Are you taking out 100,000k a year for undergrad? or am i just really gullible?