in all honesty..... i dont think folks should go to grad school until they have been working for over 5 years after their b.a..... this way you will know wtf you want to do in grad school and how to manage your time/money/etc....

toooo many young folks with masters that think they are owed something.... sorry... not until you get your hands dirty....

Thanks for the advice.

I know I still haven't earned my degree yet but I have already been in the arhictecutral work field since I was in highschool all the way through college. Totalling my work expierence up to already 5 years. This has been with one small firm too, which I was able to actually do "real work." I already know what I want to specialize/focus in which is mainly guided by my boss (mentor).

I dont' feel that people owe me anything. I actually feel much the opposite. I believe that most of my undergrad career was in a way wasted due to the lack of a central focus. Anways I can go on and on...

Just humour me.

If you can afford to spend the time and money on applications, and you really want to stay in school, then why not apply for 2010 and see where you get in?

I suspect that if you want to be in school, and you don't really want to get a job at a firm, you'll have a hard time finding a job next spring when you graduate. If you're not incredibly motivated to get work, and willing to wade through a river of rejection notices with a smile on your face, you won't land a job.

But, on the other hand, you probably will have worse chances of getting in to M.Arch II programs in 2010 coming straight from undergrad and without a thesis project in your portfolio. A lot of schools saw acceptance rates plunge in 2009 because so many more people were applying to grad school than normal. My guess is that 2010 will be even worse (as there will be even more young people who have been laid-off who decide to get their M.Arch II now). You probably will get in somewhere, but don't count on going to your dream school.

As for applying to first-professional M.Arch programs with a B.Arch, I think very few schools would accept your applications. Maybe some would. But they might not be the places you want to go.

If you really want to stay in school, consider getting a different masters degree than an M.Arch II (which you can always get later). What about a city planning degree? Or a landscape arch degree? Or an MFA? Or, a number of schools in Europe offer one-year masters degrees in things that are architecturally related, but not M.Arch degrees (for example, the Architectural Association).

I suggest going straight through school, but it is a highly personal decision. There isn't anything out in the real world you'll be exposed to that will help your school, unless you happen to get a very, very unique job.


MBA - go get a degree that will offer more flexibility later on. Ideally with a focus on real estate development.

Once again thanks for the advice,

Scottaway - Your 3rd paragraph, word for word, sounds exactly like what my boss told me. Thanks for clearing up my questions and getting straight to the point. I never really thought about looking into different programs, this is now an option.

A job I can always get, that's not the hard part for me (I sound like a total douche for saying that, sorry.)

Trace - Very interesting idea of obtaining an MBA. I'm actually going to consider this.

I too also have the personal preference of just going straight through school.

"There isn't anything out in the real world you'll be exposed to that will help your school, unless you happen to get a very, very unique job." - the truest words ever spoken

gotzmlk... i really dont agree with that last paragraph... there is very much something to be said about learning how to execute...
you learn this working and of course its crucial in school...
ive spent time doing SD and DD drawings and lots of my time doing presentation drawings and competition entries... every single one of those things would be an enourmous help to grad school students... i wouldnt discount learning in an office...

that being said, a few people have mentioned doing the M.Arch...
and id agree with those suggesting adding some variety to your education. I really dont know what youd expect to gain from an M.Arch when you already have a B.Arch. You dont need it for licensing purposes... and you probably dont need it to do your job better later on in life... i would also suggest looking into diversifying a bit... use your grad school experience to round off another area of interest... urban planning? graphic design? industrial design? public policy? whatever you want... the B.Arch will always be there...

lletdownl thanks for the advice. I guess was a little to extreme with the point i was trying to get across. What I meant to say, for me at least, that school is usually a better environment for accelerating a specific focus of interest. It's true that the work environment does teach invaluable knowledge, but I'm edging more towards theory.

The reason I'm considering a M. Arch degree is because I feel that I haven't really learned much during my undergraduate schooling. I'll look into other fields and ask around.

Thanks your advice was really welcomed. :)

why 5 years 80 grit and not 4 years, or 6 years? im just curious where such objective and determined figures emerge from?

i got a three year m.arch and have been out of school and working now for four years. i tend to agree with 80 grit that it is a good idea to get your first degree and work for a few years, but not because i learned so much in the professional world, but rather because you need to be refreshed after a few years interning in an office and going back to school is a great way to do that. the professional world especially as an intern is a grind. in my view the ideal route would be four or five year degree, work for three to four years (taking care of as much idp as you can), back to grad school for the m.arch, then take the ARE as soon as you are able to after graduation.

although it's tempting to push through and finish school all in one stretch, i think a lot can be gained from experiences that may best take place during your early/mid 20s.

not just work experience either. you've already got some architecture office experience...so maybe try another job/career for a little while...or maybe try working in an arch office in a different state or even different country (maybe learn a foreign language) for 1-2 years. maybe get a pilot's license? maybe peace corps? whatever, could be anything

with a b.arch already in hand and youth on your side, you have the luxury of coming to your m.arch from any of a thousand different directions...and that could prove very valuable once you are back in school (whenever that is)

Get away from school for a few years and get some real experience in architecture. When you eventually go back to school you will get more out of your MArch II research having both an academic and a professional background. Also, schools looking for MArch II applicants will like the fact that you have a wider range of experience.

This is the route that I took...I graduated in 2005 with a BArch, worked for 3.5 yrs in a small firm learning the nuts and bolts, completed IDP, then applied to MArch II....starting PP@PD at PENN in Fall.

Why would you want an MArch I if you have a BArch? MArch II is really where you can get the oppurtunity to research what type of design interests you, and its much shorter (and in turn less expensive).

i can only stress that it makes no sense for you to do an m.arch I, no sense whatsoever, you will enter with people who know so little about architecture, you're learning curve will already be flat for the first year,, it will take you time to feel like you're being challenged.

there is no magic answer, its not a factual thing, you can wait 5 years and work, or you can go straight ahead, it really falls down to what you want to do now and later, and this will probably change a little bit as time passes, the only thing i can say is if you want to go to school, go somewhere that will challenge you to do better, i dont see an m.arch I doing that for you, atleast not immediately, unless its an incredibly good school, whatever that means.

that being said, and, since time is not an issue, my subjective advice is to spend one year out of school, just one, give yourself the opportunity to do different things, catch up on readings, movies you have always wanted to see, places youve always wanted to visit,, work full time for some time,, just have a change of scenery,, yes, masters will be different than undergrad, but, its sort of a difference in degree only,, a year out, while simultaneously goin through the process of applying, will do you good no matter what. focus on your thesis for the coming year, and see where that takes you from there.

Thanks for all the great advice. This was really the feedback I was hoping for. I began talking with people around the firm and came to conclusion that I should focus my efforts on obtaining a MAUD degree.

jafilder: this is a really random question about IDP. I've already e-mailed NCARB but they seem to be slow on the reply. I've been working for a firm in a foreign country for a while now and the principals are both licensed architects in the United States as well as their respective country. Does this qualify for IDP or is it only limited to the United States?
If I'm not mistaken, since I am a resident of California, I can take the ARE without having completed IDP. :)

puddles: do you have any background information about the peace corps in relation to architects?

fay.panda: As of right now, taking a year off before applying to graduate school seems like the most reasonable and practical solution. I have to say I do agree with this and it does take an incredible work load off my shoulders.

I just took a year off in the middle of undergrad. i feel well rested and ready to take on school at a different level.

re : taking a year off between schooling :

Part of the reason to go for an additional degree (particularly if you already hold a professional degree) is to hone your research / interest / explorations in one particular area that, for some reason, you find captivates your interest. Advanced degrees allow you to concentrate your energies into furthering some particular specialty (in a sense) that interests you. For that reason, I almost ALWAYS recommend taking at LEAST a year off between undergrad and grad -- to allow you time to flourish and develop as a person AND as a designer and to explore what truly piques your curiosity. Otherwise, grad school can be a waste of time. If you don't know who you are, and what absolutely compells you, all grad school can be just another series of studios with random projects to complete until the day you find yourself done.

Hopefully that made sense...

@Mantaray: I already pretty much know what I want to research and explore mainly because this coming year is my thesis project. In hope that I could carry my thesis project into Graduate School and develop it further. In my own thoughts, I really didn't want to take a year off because I wanted non-stop attention on my thesis.

But maybe taking the year off is for the best. Having the chance to see my future thesis project with a new set of rested eyes...