not sure there are too many 'urban' areas that don't have some highrise type vibe. maybe you're meaning 'anyplace but charlotte or atlanta'?
if so, i'd generally stick to n.c. over s.c., unless you're considering charleston (which would have your urban vibe in spades). ashville is a nice place, but kind of high on the housing expense side. durham/raleigh/chapel hill has some 'vibe' to it - definitely a college area - but it's got a lot of bland as well. also some very sharp divides economically.
there's another recent topic with firm ideas. in general, nobody's really hiring in the southeast. the firms that have are trying to hang on. most of the larger are still shedding, albeit at a slower pace.
the southeast and urban don't really mix... it's almost an oxymoron... that said, charleston can be nice (at least in the area around the historic core)... but the city and the architecture are very conservative... huff+gooden do really nice work and are/were based there... however, they recently opened an office in nyc and i'm not sure if the charleston office is still active...
there are a few nice urban-ish neighborhoods in charlotte... i don't know anything about firms there though...
st. petersburg, fl has a nice urban core with a few firms doing good work, if you're willing to go that far south...
check out this thread... and you may find a few more options...
I just drove through Charlotte and it looked fairly cool from the freeway (was rushing to a funeral, no time to stop and look around). Compact but dense downtown, with plenty of green close in around the city and lots of little mod-ish rowhouse developments.
Also flew into/out of Memphis not long ago and pretty much fell in love with it from the air, if that's at all a reliable judgement, which it isn't. It looks like such a cool little place!
The coasts in NC/SC are pretty awesome, but heartbreaking - the architecture is all so, so terrible.
the south is cool - gotta be willing to slow down a bit - Nashville is a healthy mix of urban/progressive/affordable - several good architects there...Other places to consider - Savanah, GA - Athens, GA - Auburn, AL - Decatur, GA (Atlanta - but really cool) - Chapel Hill, NC - Birmingham, AL - New Orleans - Baton Rouge - - - Chatanooga, TN
Check out the cost of living comparison on Salary.com - moving to the south is winner in every comparison...
I lived in Tennessee for ten years - great place - with the affordability, you can accomplish many more personal goals (if you have goals other than working till you die)
You won't be alone in your move either - so many people are getting the hell off of the West coast and heading somewhere cheaper..
If I had to move back to the Southeast, it would probably be either Jacksonville, Florida or Asheville, NC. (I've lived in both cities before, so they're both pretty familiar to me.)
Jacksonville is almost entirely suburban sprawl, but there are some nice older neighborhoods closer to downtown, and the beach is never very far away. One of the nicer things about that part of Florida is that once you get outside of Jax, there's still a bit of "old" Florida nearby that hasn't yet been plowed under for golf courses and theme parks. Highway A1A between Ferdnandina Beach and Daytona Beach is one of my favorite drives anywhere.
If you're looking for mountains, Asheville is a great little town that I think has the potential to become sort of a mini-Portland. The historic downtown is mostly intact and has some great art deco buildings, and the rest of the city has some great residential neighborhoods. The surrounding mountains are beautiful, and the Blue Ridge Parkway is another one of my favorite drives. The climate is nice in that you still get the change of seasons, but the temperatures rarely go too far in one extreme or the other.
My parents like in the Raleigh-Durham area, and while the economy there seems a bit better and they have a few major universities nearby, I find the area to be incredibly bland. Downtown Raleigh is nothing to write home about.
I've never been to Charlotte, but I understand it's been growing into a nice city and I've heard good things about it. Might be worth checking out.
Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA are both nice cities with great downtown areas, but I don't think either has much to offer once you get outside the downtown historic districts. Great places to visit, but I'm not sure I'd want to live in either of them. Others may disagree.
Atlanta seems to be doing everything it can to become another Houston... Not my cup of tea.
I actually enjoyed living in Jax and still have a few friends down there, so I'm probably a bit biased. That said, I've never felt any strong urges to move back there.
I went to Clemson for Grad School and spent a lot of time in different places in NC, SC, GA during those couple of years. And my wife is from Seattle, So i get there a bit.
I'd take a look at Ashville, NC. In terms of the general demeanor of people there, it would be the easiest transition from Seattle. The weather isn't all sun and warm though. There is a pretty decent arts community and more progressive thinking there than other areas of the south. Its not big, but there is the urban character
Charleston, SC is a pretty interesting low rise urban town, but to live in the downtown area isn't exactly cheap. It will also be some big time culture shock though.
Savannah, GA might be worth looking at, but its a pretty small town.
Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham are all pretty suburban sprawl. Im not that familiar with Charlotte but the other 2 have some cool areas, but again...expensive.
If you would consider going as far north as Richmond, VA it has some potential.
One thing you are going to find that is different in the south from Seattle is the social-economic split (and by that I mean black vs. white too, but not totally) of the different areas in a city. I know its sort of that way everywhere, but it seems to me that its starker in southern cities. This can tend to preclude middle income people from living in the more urban parts of a town. It seems the urban areas are either very high end or very poor.
I'm figuring the only way to know for sure is to road trip it. I grew up in the DC area, but did not make it south very often, save childhood trips to hilton head and disney world.
I've heard great things about Asheville and Savannah from several sources. I'm worried that work options would be too limited in such small cities. Although maybe that is the best place to start a new firm.
One other thing. Right now the economy really is bad in the South (I'm in Florida) partly because things got really, really overbuilt. This is true of NC and SC too. Not that the whole country isnt sucking. A lot of the economy of the whole region was based on building houses, offices, commercial for all the new people moving in. I just visited Seattle and from what I hear, even though its not great there, its better than it is here. My theory is that it is lagging about 1 year behind us. You might want to wait a little while to make the jump, I think about every architecture firm in the south is sucking wind right now. Government is the only ones spending money right now and they don't really spend on buildings like they do in other parts of the country.
i "jumped" to nyc without a job and all worked out, BUT, that was in April 2007 and the job market was much different than it is today.
regarding the Southeast, I'll 2nd St. Petersburg, FL as a very nice place. I'm looking to end up in the Southeast in the long term (not for several years from now though...I will very likely call the region home by my mid/late 30's). St. Pete is definitely on my radar for when the time comes, as is Louisville, KY and Charlotte, NC...among others. Nashville, TN has a lot going for it as well. I spent a few weeks working there in 2005 and enjoyed it well enough.
Asheville sounds pretty great...never been, but may have to take a look after the above comments.
Ha, I'm in the reverse situation. I'm leaving the Southeast for Seattle next month.
I've lived in Nashville, Charleston and a small-town in South Carolina and I can honestly tell you that I love the Southeast. Friendly smiles, delicious food, a sense of community, beautiful rolling hills and mountains, great weather and a continual betterment far outweigh my complaints.
I adore Nashville and can easily see myself returning later in life to 'settle down.' The city has blossomed over the years. Neighborhoods are becoming more defined and more distinct through an organic process. The city (not suburbs) has grown dramatically and a big push for urbanization has been renewed all while maintaining a certain level of small town charm. Finally, I'm convinced this is the friendliest city I've ever step foot in. There are a few great firms/architects who continually push the envelope and positively enhance the built environment.
While I've never lived in Asheville, I've probably spent about 45 vacation days there as it was fairly close to my college. The city has a vibrant art and restaurant scene and is surrounded by beautiful mountains. A few of my architecture classmates moved there after graduation and have all been very happy with the city.
I lived in Charleston and loved the quality of life that the city affords BUT can not see myself returning professionally. It's definitely a beautiful and urbanized city that is worth a vacation if you have never been.
flip - thanks for mentioning wilmington. For some reason small coastal cities intrigue me. I take you live/work there now or in the past? what kind of work is (was) the rage...beach houses, small infill projects, condo develpments, etc.?
Nashville, Knoxville (metropulse.com), Charleston (love love it), Birmingham all great cities. Atlanta is big and traffic outside the city is disgusting (too many ppl commuting + more transit needed) however it has MANY great things going on (check out Noguchi's park in Piedmont)
Wilmington is a cute, small college beach town. It has beautiful Wrightsville Beach on one side and the Cape Fear Riverfront on the other. Everyone wears Rainbows (flip-flops) and it is totally laid back. I'm not sure it has an "urban" vibe, but I'd love to live there. Career potential might be limited. There are several good residential architects there who design beach houses, etc. It has frequent downpours, alternating with sunshine.
Asheville is beautiful and very "artsy" and sporty--hiking, canoeing, biking, etc. Small, and not a lot of architecture going on. Also, not very cheap--the robber barons all vacationed there in the past and bought up huge swathes of land. Biltmore, the largest home is America, is there. A heavenly place to retire or to be an artist in ... Cool climate for the south, fog and some snow--truly beautiful in a natural area with mountains, waterfalls... Architecture would be mostly residential. Bigger projects tend to go to Charlotte firms.
Charlotte is a great place to raise a family, real estate is reasonable--especially now, but not as cheap as many other places. It has tons of high rise condos waiting for the economy to turn around... Some of the "cool urban" areas are more pricey but some evolving fringe areas are cheaper. The bankers tore down most of the old buildings a few years back and replaced them with a modern, fairly vibrant downtown--that they call "uptown." Great climate because it's in the piedmont and extremes are less than on the coastal plains. It has lakes in the suburbs and it's about an hour and a half to beautiful mountains, and almost 4 hours to the beach.
Taxes in NC are higher than most SE states and are expected to rise with plans in the legislature now.
The Charlotte Business Journal reported a month or two ago that 50% of architects in the Raleigh-Durham area were unemployed and 40% in Charlotte were unemployed.
Virginia taxes are much lower and services are better. Richmond's "urban" scene is more "urban/ghetto." Beautiful grand old houses in the Fan now house VCU students and group homes. Homeless people litter the streets... Many of the once vibrant areas are scenes of urban blight. Being the state capitol might mean there is some money there now but you'd need to check it out. There are a few very good firms there and they do work all around the state. Hot, muggy summers.
Charlottesville has a cool, young vibe, with UVa there. It's in the low mountains--more snow and rain in the winter. Lots of restaurants, clubs, etc. It's not too cheap but you could probably find something reasonable to rent. There are some Profs at UVa that have practices there that do some interesting work, but I suspect they hire students and former students.
Virginia's best "young urban" area is the Alexandria/DC suburban area. It is very expensive! (Houses are double most of NC!) Lots of culture, diversity, opportunities, clubs, restaurants, history, etc.--but EXPENSIVE. Taxes are much lower in VA than across the river in DC--and services are better. Schools are generally good. Climate is more extreme than any of the places discussed above--hotter and more humid in summer and colder and more snow in winter. There is better public transportation. Jobs are still scarce but it looks like the government is the fastest growing part of the economy, so it might come back soonest there.
Charleston is charming and great fun. It has wonderful restaurants and charm and an arts scene and it's right by the beach--but it gets hotter than Hades in the summer! It's a smaller town than you might think and doesn't have much new architecture--but it has a couple of good firms there. SC taxes are low and services are poor, too. Public schools aren't much to brag about. I think most SC work is done by firms in Columbia, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I can't tell you much about the Columbia scene.
Charlotte and Atlanta are the best bets in the SE (outside of Florida) for a future in commercial architecture, but both are struggling right now.
Can anyone offer any info on Florida?--there are some lovely places on the Gulf coast...
I grew up in the dc area and know the nova. If i could afford a house in old town, arlington, etc. I would be all over it. Also familiar with the Fan/Richmond scene you mention...but not as an adult...maybe I don't really want to revisit those days.
Charlottesville is probably out...don't want a college town. Asheville is a little granola sounding...and sounds as pricy as the NWest. Atlanta probably too big.
Charlotte sounds the most promising (when things get better). Thanks for all the great info.
the northwest coast of florida (the area from pensecola to panama city and down a bit south of there) is dead. officially. there's so much real estate for sale there, and at such crazy prices still, that there won't be much new construction (at any scale) for another 2-3 years.
Charlotte's big enough to have some cultural amenities, but small enough to be easy. Also, there are so many people there from all over--Boston, NY, DC-- that the cultural shock will be much less for you.
In Charlotte, there are many good firms--Little is the big regional firm, Perkins and Will and Gensler are international, also look at LS3P, Perkins Eastman, Odell, Shook Kelley, Furman, Gantt Huberman... to start.
I lived in the southeast for 6 years. Any of the seaside communites, such as Charleston SC, Wilmington NC, or Savannah GA are wonderful. These three are close enough that you can visit any of them on day/weekend trips. I moved back to CA to be closer to family, but I was really happy living in the SE.
Charlotte is a very (young) family oriented town. Always has been, always will be. Unless your elementary age children can enjoy it, it just doesn't happen, which goes a long way to explaining why the arts district has failed to reach any appreciable mass.
Like large swaths of the South, it actually prides itself on being unsophisticated in every way except maybe financial, and we all know where all those complicated derivative markets got us. Exasperatingly, the huge influx of New York investment bankers back in the nineties did nothing to improve the cultural landscape, but instead, only fueled the "McMansion" market, as all those financial eggheads came down and found out they could buy, tear down and build 6 - 10,000 sq/ft houses where 2 - 3,000 sq/ft houses existed, for MUCH less than what they were paying for their Manhattan apartments. I'd have to say they've assimilated very well.
The uniform here is the starched white button down.
I live and work in Durham, NC. I think I work for one of the only firms in the area that hasn't had any layoffs yet. We're getting by (barely) this year on small residential work, mainly for upper income folks employed by the universities and medical industries. Nobody in the triangle is really hiring right now, but we also haven't been hit as bad as some areas. I would wager we'll be one of the earliest to come out of it.
Durham is an odd town, amazing food and arts scene for a tiny area that could fit in a couple DC blocks. Most people here fit in here because they don't really fit in anywhere else (especially Raleigh)
Durham blog if you're interested in what's going on:
@ dsc_arch... i lived in st. pete for 10 years before moving to philly a year ago... i split that time between working for a firm in tampa and working for the city in st. pete... i greatly prefer st. pete over tampa, although there are a few nice areas in tampa as well... st. pete's downtown is walkable and livable with a good number of downtown residents... tampa's downtown is essentially empty after 5pm and on the weekends... they've been trying to make it better but most of the condo towers that were built in the past 5 years or so in downtown tampa are essentially empty... i was also very active in the local aia so i know a ton of architects around town... let me know if you have any specific questions...
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The Southeast
Considering a move to the Southeast from Seattle for various reasons. Housing affordability and Sun are among the top reasons.
Anyone have ideas about cities in NC and SC. Where to live for an urban (but not highrise) environment? And firms to check out?
cad-
not sure there are too many 'urban' areas that don't have some highrise type vibe. maybe you're meaning 'anyplace but charlotte or atlanta'?
if so, i'd generally stick to n.c. over s.c., unless you're considering charleston (which would have your urban vibe in spades). ashville is a nice place, but kind of high on the housing expense side. durham/raleigh/chapel hill has some 'vibe' to it - definitely a college area - but it's got a lot of bland as well. also some very sharp divides economically.
there's another recent topic with firm ideas. in general, nobody's really hiring in the southeast. the firms that have are trying to hang on. most of the larger are still shedding, albeit at a slower pace.
the southeast and urban don't really mix... it's almost an oxymoron... that said, charleston can be nice (at least in the area around the historic core)... but the city and the architecture are very conservative... huff+gooden do really nice work and are/were based there... however, they recently opened an office in nyc and i'm not sure if the charleston office is still active...
there are a few nice urban-ish neighborhoods in charlotte... i don't know anything about firms there though...
st. petersburg, fl has a nice urban core with a few firms doing good work, if you're willing to go that far south...
check out this thread... and you may find a few more options...
I just drove through Charlotte and it looked fairly cool from the freeway (was rushing to a funeral, no time to stop and look around). Compact but dense downtown, with plenty of green close in around the city and lots of little mod-ish rowhouse developments.
Also flew into/out of Memphis not long ago and pretty much fell in love with it from the air, if that's at all a reliable judgement, which it isn't. It looks like such a cool little place!
The coasts in NC/SC are pretty awesome, but heartbreaking - the architecture is all so, so terrible.
the south is cool - gotta be willing to slow down a bit - Nashville is a healthy mix of urban/progressive/affordable - several good architects there...Other places to consider - Savanah, GA - Athens, GA - Auburn, AL - Decatur, GA (Atlanta - but really cool) - Chapel Hill, NC - Birmingham, AL - New Orleans - Baton Rouge - - - Chatanooga, TN
Check out the cost of living comparison on Salary.com - moving to the south is winner in every comparison...
I lived in Tennessee for ten years - great place - with the affordability, you can accomplish many more personal goals (if you have goals other than working till you die)
You won't be alone in your move either - so many people are getting the hell off of the West coast and heading somewhere cheaper..
If I had to move back to the Southeast, it would probably be either Jacksonville, Florida or Asheville, NC. (I've lived in both cities before, so they're both pretty familiar to me.)
Jacksonville is almost entirely suburban sprawl, but there are some nice older neighborhoods closer to downtown, and the beach is never very far away. One of the nicer things about that part of Florida is that once you get outside of Jax, there's still a bit of "old" Florida nearby that hasn't yet been plowed under for golf courses and theme parks. Highway A1A between Ferdnandina Beach and Daytona Beach is one of my favorite drives anywhere.
If you're looking for mountains, Asheville is a great little town that I think has the potential to become sort of a mini-Portland. The historic downtown is mostly intact and has some great art deco buildings, and the rest of the city has some great residential neighborhoods. The surrounding mountains are beautiful, and the Blue Ridge Parkway is another one of my favorite drives. The climate is nice in that you still get the change of seasons, but the temperatures rarely go too far in one extreme or the other.
My parents like in the Raleigh-Durham area, and while the economy there seems a bit better and they have a few major universities nearby, I find the area to be incredibly bland. Downtown Raleigh is nothing to write home about.
I've never been to Charlotte, but I understand it's been growing into a nice city and I've heard good things about it. Might be worth checking out.
Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA are both nice cities with great downtown areas, but I don't think either has much to offer once you get outside the downtown historic districts. Great places to visit, but I'm not sure I'd want to live in either of them. Others may disagree.
Atlanta seems to be doing everything it can to become another Houston... Not my cup of tea.
*My parents live in the...
jacksonville... SHUDDER!!! and i can say that since i'm a native... i will never move back there...
I actually enjoyed living in Jax and still have a few friends down there, so I'm probably a bit biased. That said, I've never felt any strong urges to move back there.
I went to Clemson for Grad School and spent a lot of time in different places in NC, SC, GA during those couple of years. And my wife is from Seattle, So i get there a bit.
I'd take a look at Ashville, NC. In terms of the general demeanor of people there, it would be the easiest transition from Seattle. The weather isn't all sun and warm though. There is a pretty decent arts community and more progressive thinking there than other areas of the south. Its not big, but there is the urban character
Charleston, SC is a pretty interesting low rise urban town, but to live in the downtown area isn't exactly cheap. It will also be some big time culture shock though.
Savannah, GA might be worth looking at, but its a pretty small town.
Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham are all pretty suburban sprawl. Im not that familiar with Charlotte but the other 2 have some cool areas, but again...expensive.
If you would consider going as far north as Richmond, VA it has some potential.
One thing you are going to find that is different in the south from Seattle is the social-economic split (and by that I mean black vs. white too, but not totally) of the different areas in a city. I know its sort of that way everywhere, but it seems to me that its starker in southern cities. This can tend to preclude middle income people from living in the more urban parts of a town. It seems the urban areas are either very high end or very poor.
Awesome, Thanks for all the great insight.
I'm figuring the only way to know for sure is to road trip it. I grew up in the DC area, but did not make it south very often, save childhood trips to hilton head and disney world.
I've heard great things about Asheville and Savannah from several sources. I'm worried that work options would be too limited in such small cities. Although maybe that is the best place to start a new firm.
One other thing. Right now the economy really is bad in the South (I'm in Florida) partly because things got really, really overbuilt. This is true of NC and SC too. Not that the whole country isnt sucking. A lot of the economy of the whole region was based on building houses, offices, commercial for all the new people moving in. I just visited Seattle and from what I hear, even though its not great there, its better than it is here. My theory is that it is lagging about 1 year behind us. You might want to wait a little while to make the jump, I think about every architecture firm in the south is sucking wind right now. Government is the only ones spending money right now and they don't really spend on buildings like they do in other parts of the country.
the economy is horrible everywhere so you may as well move to the place you want to be.
I'd definitely have a job before I jumped....
nah, fuck it - Jump!
If you wait for a job you'll never move...
i "jumped" to nyc without a job and all worked out, BUT, that was in April 2007 and the job market was much different than it is today.
regarding the Southeast, I'll 2nd St. Petersburg, FL as a very nice place. I'm looking to end up in the Southeast in the long term (not for several years from now though...I will very likely call the region home by my mid/late 30's). St. Pete is definitely on my radar for when the time comes, as is Louisville, KY and Charlotte, NC...among others. Nashville, TN has a lot going for it as well. I spent a few weeks working there in 2005 and enjoyed it well enough.
Asheville sounds pretty great...never been, but may have to take a look after the above comments.
Ha, I'm in the reverse situation. I'm leaving the Southeast for Seattle next month.
I've lived in Nashville, Charleston and a small-town in South Carolina and I can honestly tell you that I love the Southeast. Friendly smiles, delicious food, a sense of community, beautiful rolling hills and mountains, great weather and a continual betterment far outweigh my complaints.
I adore Nashville and can easily see myself returning later in life to 'settle down.' The city has blossomed over the years. Neighborhoods are becoming more defined and more distinct through an organic process. The city (not suburbs) has grown dramatically and a big push for urbanization has been renewed all while maintaining a certain level of small town charm. Finally, I'm convinced this is the friendliest city I've ever step foot in. There are a few great firms/architects who continually push the envelope and positively enhance the built environment.
While I've never lived in Asheville, I've probably spent about 45 vacation days there as it was fairly close to my college. The city has a vibrant art and restaurant scene and is surrounded by beautiful mountains. A few of my architecture classmates moved there after graduation and have all been very happy with the city.
I lived in Charleston and loved the quality of life that the city affords BUT can not see myself returning professionally. It's definitely a beautiful and urbanized city that is worth a vacation if you have never been.
Wilmington NC is a small city but fun, on the coast, very affordable with some excellent small firms. Economy is stll slow but improving.
flip - thanks for mentioning wilmington. For some reason small coastal cities intrigue me. I take you live/work there now or in the past? what kind of work is (was) the rage...beach houses, small infill projects, condo develpments, etc.?
I've always wondered about Wilmington too...and any of the other small communities along the coast nearby..
Nashville, Knoxville (metropulse.com), Charleston (love love it), Birmingham all great cities. Atlanta is big and traffic outside the city is disgusting (too many ppl commuting + more transit needed) however it has MANY great things going on (check out Noguchi's park in Piedmont)
Wilmington is a cute, small college beach town. It has beautiful Wrightsville Beach on one side and the Cape Fear Riverfront on the other. Everyone wears Rainbows (flip-flops) and it is totally laid back. I'm not sure it has an "urban" vibe, but I'd love to live there. Career potential might be limited. There are several good residential architects there who design beach houses, etc. It has frequent downpours, alternating with sunshine.
Asheville is beautiful and very "artsy" and sporty--hiking, canoeing, biking, etc. Small, and not a lot of architecture going on. Also, not very cheap--the robber barons all vacationed there in the past and bought up huge swathes of land. Biltmore, the largest home is America, is there. A heavenly place to retire or to be an artist in ... Cool climate for the south, fog and some snow--truly beautiful in a natural area with mountains, waterfalls... Architecture would be mostly residential. Bigger projects tend to go to Charlotte firms.
Charlotte is a great place to raise a family, real estate is reasonable--especially now, but not as cheap as many other places. It has tons of high rise condos waiting for the economy to turn around... Some of the "cool urban" areas are more pricey but some evolving fringe areas are cheaper. The bankers tore down most of the old buildings a few years back and replaced them with a modern, fairly vibrant downtown--that they call "uptown." Great climate because it's in the piedmont and extremes are less than on the coastal plains. It has lakes in the suburbs and it's about an hour and a half to beautiful mountains, and almost 4 hours to the beach.
Taxes in NC are higher than most SE states and are expected to rise with plans in the legislature now.
The Charlotte Business Journal reported a month or two ago that 50% of architects in the Raleigh-Durham area were unemployed and 40% in Charlotte were unemployed.
Virginia taxes are much lower and services are better. Richmond's "urban" scene is more "urban/ghetto." Beautiful grand old houses in the Fan now house VCU students and group homes. Homeless people litter the streets... Many of the once vibrant areas are scenes of urban blight. Being the state capitol might mean there is some money there now but you'd need to check it out. There are a few very good firms there and they do work all around the state. Hot, muggy summers.
Charlottesville has a cool, young vibe, with UVa there. It's in the low mountains--more snow and rain in the winter. Lots of restaurants, clubs, etc. It's not too cheap but you could probably find something reasonable to rent. There are some Profs at UVa that have practices there that do some interesting work, but I suspect they hire students and former students.
Virginia's best "young urban" area is the Alexandria/DC suburban area. It is very expensive! (Houses are double most of NC!) Lots of culture, diversity, opportunities, clubs, restaurants, history, etc.--but EXPENSIVE. Taxes are much lower in VA than across the river in DC--and services are better. Schools are generally good. Climate is more extreme than any of the places discussed above--hotter and more humid in summer and colder and more snow in winter. There is better public transportation. Jobs are still scarce but it looks like the government is the fastest growing part of the economy, so it might come back soonest there.
Charleston is charming and great fun. It has wonderful restaurants and charm and an arts scene and it's right by the beach--but it gets hotter than Hades in the summer! It's a smaller town than you might think and doesn't have much new architecture--but it has a couple of good firms there. SC taxes are low and services are poor, too. Public schools aren't much to brag about. I think most SC work is done by firms in Columbia, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I can't tell you much about the Columbia scene.
Charlotte and Atlanta are the best bets in the SE (outside of Florida) for a future in commercial architecture, but both are struggling right now.
Can anyone offer any info on Florida?--there are some lovely places on the Gulf coast...
Thanks CM...lots of good info.
I grew up in the dc area and know the nova. If i could afford a house in old town, arlington, etc. I would be all over it. Also familiar with the Fan/Richmond scene you mention...but not as an adult...maybe I don't really want to revisit those days.
Charlottesville is probably out...don't want a college town. Asheville is a little granola sounding...and sounds as pricy as the NWest. Atlanta probably too big.
Charlotte sounds the most promising (when things get better). Thanks for all the great info.
cc
the northwest coast of florida (the area from pensecola to panama city and down a bit south of there) is dead. officially. there's so much real estate for sale there, and at such crazy prices still, that there won't be much new construction (at any scale) for another 2-3 years.
Cad,
Charlotte's big enough to have some cultural amenities, but small enough to be easy. Also, there are so many people there from all over--Boston, NY, DC-- that the cultural shock will be much less for you.
In Charlotte, there are many good firms--Little is the big regional firm, Perkins and Will and Gensler are international, also look at LS3P, Perkins Eastman, Odell, Shook Kelley, Furman, Gantt Huberman... to start.
I lived in the southeast for 6 years. Any of the seaside communites, such as Charleston SC, Wilmington NC, or Savannah GA are wonderful. These three are close enough that you can visit any of them on day/weekend trips. I moved back to CA to be closer to family, but I was really happy living in the SE.
Any other input on St. Pete and Tampa...
I just got back from trip to see a buddy at the air base and loved both sides of the bay. It feels like a cross between Houston and San Diego.
I picked up my fla license a few years back and now have a lead (or two) on projects there.
cad,
I did Charlotte in 96-98' and while I know it has grown since then, on my last visit I found that it really hasn't changed much.
It's fairly conservative, financially orientated and it's only 'arts district' has barely managed to grow in the last ten years.
Compared to Seattle, I find it a very boring place.
cad,
Charlotte is a very (young) family oriented town. Always has been, always will be. Unless your elementary age children can enjoy it, it just doesn't happen, which goes a long way to explaining why the arts district has failed to reach any appreciable mass.
Like large swaths of the South, it actually prides itself on being unsophisticated in every way except maybe financial, and we all know where all those complicated derivative markets got us. Exasperatingly, the huge influx of New York investment bankers back in the nineties did nothing to improve the cultural landscape, but instead, only fueled the "McMansion" market, as all those financial eggheads came down and found out they could buy, tear down and build 6 - 10,000 sq/ft houses where 2 - 3,000 sq/ft houses existed, for MUCH less than what they were paying for their Manhattan apartments. I'd have to say they've assimilated very well.
The uniform here is the starched white button down.
Justin,
"Like large swaths of the South, it actually prides itself on being unsophisticated in every way..."
This is such a great comment.
I went to high school in the south, state college in the south and worked my first architectural job in the south.
I could never happily live there again.
I live and work in Durham, NC. I think I work for one of the only firms in the area that hasn't had any layoffs yet. We're getting by (barely) this year on small residential work, mainly for upper income folks employed by the universities and medical industries. Nobody in the triangle is really hiring right now, but we also haven't been hit as bad as some areas. I would wager we'll be one of the earliest to come out of it.
Durham is an odd town, amazing food and arts scene for a tiny area that could fit in a couple DC blocks. Most people here fit in here because they don't really fit in anywhere else (especially Raleigh)
Durham blog if you're interested in what's going on:
www.bullcityrising.com
Ahh Durham..
I remember many a visit to Carrboro to see bands play the Cat's Cradle.
That was one of my many reasons for leaving the south, I got sick of driving to other towns to see bands play.
__|_|_ |',__|_,
To put a modern spin on an idea Thomas Wolfe had,
"you don't want to go home again."
Ouch... tragic example, I'm 38 now too.
@ dsc_arch... i lived in st. pete for 10 years before moving to philly a year ago... i split that time between working for a firm in tampa and working for the city in st. pete... i greatly prefer st. pete over tampa, although there are a few nice areas in tampa as well... st. pete's downtown is walkable and livable with a good number of downtown residents... tampa's downtown is essentially empty after 5pm and on the weekends... they've been trying to make it better but most of the condo towers that were built in the past 5 years or so in downtown tampa are essentially empty... i was also very active in the local aia so i know a ton of architects around town... let me know if you have any specific questions...
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