The arrest of eminent Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., said Carol Rose in The Boston Globe, is fresh proof of the evils of racial profiling. Cambridge police, who have wisely dropped all charges, clearly treated Gates as "suspicious"—even though he was in his own home. And the incident illustrated that Gates wasn't being disorderly when he told an officer "this is what happens to black men in America"—he was just speaking the truth.
Few people are naive enough to claim racial profiling doesn't happen, said Kevin Aylward in Wizbang, but that doesn't mean Henry Louis Gates Jr. should be crying victim. Gates says he wasn't yelling or being uncooperative with an officer investigating a report of a burglary at Gates' home—but the police report tells a different story. Anyone who's as "uncooperative" with investigating officers as Gates was could end up in the back of a squad car.
Maybe Henry Louis Gates Jr. was "loud and assertive," said the Los Angeles Times in an editorial. If he was, it's easy to understand why. "The real problem is that his color trumped everything else, including his prominence, his familiarity with the house, and his identification showing that he lived there. It demoted him from citizen to suspect."
The one question I am left asking, because I don't doubt the cop was out of line here, is this; why are Mr. Gate's neighbors unaware who lives around them? What I am getting at is this; are WE not all culpable for the actions of two probably well meaning individuals - brought together to create an absurdly avoidable situation - when we refuse to talk to our neighbors because of racial/ethnic/religious fears/prejudices?
It seems clear from me that this entire event, this singular event, could have been avoided if both Mr. Gates and his neighbors knew each other, looked out for each others property and actually gave a shit about what goes on in the neighborhood, instead of shrugging shoulders, and passing the buck.
Jul 22, 09 2:16 pm
I'm trying to think of when I haven't been profiled.
beta...i am pretty sure it was not specified that the original 9-11 caller was a neighbor (please let me know if i am wrong)...i have a feeling it was a passer-by who saw something they deemed suspicious, and reported it...
now, although there was clearly no reason to arrest mr. gates after he showed his ID, if I was putting my shoulder into the front door of my house to get it unstuck, and a police officer stopped by a few minutes later to investigate someone trying to break into my house, I would have absolutely no problem showing my ID...
but in the end of the day, so much could be meant by the tone of the voice of the police officer as he "investigated", we will never know how racially motivated this really was...regardless, once the ID was presented, a "thank you very much mr. gates, sorry for any inconvenience" should've been all.
simples, i think the article and news have reported that a neighbor reported a burglary.
apparently Gates is about 5'-7" and utilizes a cane. hardly the "stereotypical" burglar, more likely that a black man, owning a home in affluent area should not exist, but i digress. i still think that the issue could have been avoided if communities really existed.
What I am getting at is this; are WE not all culpable for the actions of two probably well meaning individuals - brought together to create an absurdly avoidable situation - when we refuse to talk to our neighbors because of racial/ethnic/religious fears/prejudices?
i think a time did exist where communities looked out for one another. isn't that the definition of a community?
my point however, is that if we acted according to our best intentions, rather than our worst fears, then perhaps we'd be a little better towards one another?
The report I heard is that Gates refused to show his ID when the police first arrived.
What do people think will happen when police arrive to a reported break-in and the person in the house refuses to show ID or cooporate, and then proceeds to start mouthing off to the cops. Doesn't matter if he is black, white, or purple. If this was true it is not racial profiling but the grandstanding of an elitest snob.
On top of this the neighbor who witnessed the arrest reported that Gates was yelling at the police prior to being handcuffed. Again, start yelling and screaming at a police officer and what do you expect?
Jul 22, 09 5:20 pm ·
·
"stephen, i find you impenetrable; on the one hand your voluminous discourse on piranesi is endlessly fascinating - i would love to buy your book - on the other hand any attempt at trying to have a dialogue with you regarding the topic, stops at the initial query. your perfect knowledge in that area makes any opportunity to glean something new and useful not worth my time. i feel stupid for even asking you a question, that the mere nature of my question is a waste of your time."
I see this as an example of acting according to your worst fears, as opposed to acting according to your best (as highlighted above)intentions.
So what are those communities that looked out for each other again?
love ya lauf, love ya. you're wrong however. i still would love to buy your book have contemplated it many times. have visited your website, read your comments, etc., the problem i have is that text in an online format does not provide me with the necessary, real dialogue i need from you, and many others that have deeply engaging thoughts and ideas. i need real, visceral dialog, i need to hear your voice, hear your inflection, so i can hear your ideas. none of this tit for tat works for me.
your seeming need to pin me down in some fashion, as though to catch me in some kind of contradictory statement, does one thing; reveal your own flaw, that of failing to recognize the potentiality of new growth, and of coming to terms with my own internal dialog.
my original quote stands true. i do feel dim for asking a question, and i think most do when it comes to you, because you are seem less interested in educating, and more interested in your own solipsisms...
I heard a story once of a little girl walking home from school who picked a daffodil from her neighbor's yard. By the time she had gotten home, the owner of the daffodils had called the girl's mother to report the picking. So when the girl went to give the flower to her mom, the mom said "You aren't allowed to pick other people's flowers! Now take that back down the street to Ms. Neighbor's house where it belongs!".
That's how neighborhoods used to exist and honestly, it depended a hell of a lot on one parent - not neccessariy the female - staying home all day.
Jul 22, 09 5:51 pm ·
·
And what I need is for you to act on your best intentions.
i am on a neighborhood caucus, and one group of neighbors can't convince the other group, that kids from outside the area that do the following; defecate on playground eqpt, curse like sailors, graffiti eqpt, break crap, shoot fireworks, and damage other pples property - all after the posted curfew - is worth banding together and responding in an appropriate fashion.
bringing this back to the topic...a new age of domestic isolationism?!?!
luckly i have a good relationship with my neighbors, and we help each other out, especially while someone is travelling...but hey, it's detroit metro...can't expect the same standards out of cambridge!
in all honesty, a bit of common sense all around would've solved that whole mess..
From Talking Points Memo: President digs in on controversial claim that arresting people in their own homes when they're not breaking any law represents substandard police work.
I love that we live in a country where even questioning the actions of a police officer is taboo, where police unions and organizations have so much power that you can't even criticize them.
Now the Cambridge Police are calling our president a disgrace because he questions their (admittedly hamhanded) actions. Unfortunately, he said they acted "stupidly", which some people not very good at wielding the English language seem to have taken to mean that he was calling them "stupid."
"What do people think will happen when police arrive to a reported break-in and the person in the house refuses to show ID or cooporate, and then proceeds to start mouthing off to the cops. Doesn't matter if he is black, white, or purple. If this was true it is not racial profiling but the GRANDSTANDING OF AN ELITEST SNOB.
On top of this the neighbor who witnessed the arrest reported that Gates was yelling at the police prior to being handcuffed. Again, start yelling and screaming at a police officer and what do you expect?"
thanks cln1...this is also the impression i get>> a cop asks for your id, you give that shit to them. in lots of places you will be taken to jail for what they call p.o.p. (pissing off the police). not sayin it's right, just sayin, and it sounded like Gates was acting pretty disorderly which is what he was apprehended for. just because you teach at harvard doesn't mean you're above the law
lots of places black men get shot for mouthing off to cops.
this was not a traffic stop. this was simply this; a black man has no right owning a home in an affluent neighborhood. it's the same thing when i used to drive up and down NJ Turnpike and GSP, 9 times out of 10 cars i saw pulled over by Troopers were African Americans, DWB - Driving While Black. there were lawsuits about this. now here's a 5'-4" or 5'-7" black man, with a cane "breaking" into a home, and the man has to show ID? give me a break. if a cop asked me for my ID at my home, i'd tell him to piss off too. oh, wait, come to think of it, i probably wouldn't, my ID shows my old address...
here's a thought; he took a cab from the airport, what if he didn't have his DL handy? what if he lost it on the way from the airport, perhaps he left it somewhere, perhaps it was stolen, then what?
“I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station,” Mr. Obama added. “I also continue to believe, based on what I heard that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. My sense is you’ve got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved and the way they would have liked it to be resolved.”
"lots of places black men get shot for mouthing off to cops."
maybe, but gates wasn't shot...he was taken in to jail for acting unruly and screaming at a cop. when you scream at a cop, you get arrested for disorderly conduct. it doesn't matter whose house you are in or how special you may think you are.
"he took a cab from the airport, what if he didn't have his DL handy? what if he lost it on the way from the airport, perhaps he left it somewhere, perhaps it was stolen, then what?"
if he was coming from the airport, it is much more than likely that he DID have his DL handy...after all they do require ID to get in to the airport terminal (passport maybe???)...if he had lost or left it somewhere, then he could have informed the police officers and maintained a tone of respect. i understand that gates was annoyed by the inconvenience, but if he had co-operated there would have been no reason for officers to book him...they were the ones called to the scene, they are trying not to get killed, they need to be cautious and certain about every suspect.
if gates had been beaten to a pulp after yelling at the cops, i would see this completely different. however, he wasn't touched. he was apprehended, booked, and released with the charges dropped...and now gates is going to try to ruin this officer's career. why? to save him from his own embarrassment due to acting out of line? and he is using none other than his good friend, the president, to back him up...it helps to have friends in high places
And, just for the record, that obama quote supports both sides of the story.
obama invites them both to the white house for a beer?!? what a joke, what a waste of time! obama aren't you supposed to be saving the world? not gratifying a loud mouthed academic who wants a boost in book sales. first it was the uninformed attacks at the police, now this? the president's actions are frownable at this point.
the way gates conducted himself, it seems he was trying to be arrested...this must've been a publicity stunt. How low it is that an ivy league professor would bring an individual's mother into the dispute.
It seems to me that crowley followed exact procedure. On top of that, look at all the accommodations made for this priss (handcuffs in front, ride in a cruiser, no jail cell because he is claustrophobic, gets to congregate with family while in custody) and he still has the audacity to egg this thing on?!?
Perhaps the worst part is that gates, through his actions, has potentially endangered the family of officer crowley. there are, no doubt, some ignorant gang-bangers in the area ready to off a guy's family for his purported racism (when they, in truth, are the racist ones!).
I like how people here have to take one side or the other with vehemence and no gray area at all. It all depends on what really happened doesn't it? (a video of the incident might help) Gates and Crowley are giving slightly different versions of the story.
In the link above, Crowley states that Gates gave him a Harvard ID with no address and then got abusive. This is what Gates says:
"The white officer who arrived found Gates in the house (the driver was gone) and asked him to step outside. Gates refused, and the officer followed him in. Gates showed him his ID, which included his address, then demanded that the officer identify himself. The officer did not comply, Gates said. He then followed the officer outside, saying repeatedly, "Is this how you treat a black man in America?"
"Gates showed him his ID, which included his address": if that ID also included his picture, then it proves he lives there (and even the officer admits that Gates didn't look and comport himself like a burglar) then Crowley is done there: he's talking to the person who lives there and thus not a burglar and has no warrant and can thus be asked to leave the premises by Gates. It all depends on what really happened, and it sounds like a case of "my word against yours" (if they were the only parties present).
Also, if Crowley was indeed worried about the presence of burglars in the house of which Gates might not have been aware, as he says in the interview, instead of saying "who else is in the house?", which is very vague and accusing, he could have just clearly said "Burglars were reported by a witness to be breaking into your house: do you mind if we check the house out for your safety?", which is a reasonable request.
There actually was another officer there...I am having trouble finding the interview with him, but he agreed that crowley had acted according to standard procedure.
yes, of course there is a gray area over what really happened. however, the press, and people on this feed, seem overwhelmingly on the side of gates.
personally, i find it more plausible that he is in the wrong, and creating something out of nothing. gates is an intelligent man and his actions were those of someone unintelligent (unless there was some type of hidden agenda: publicity/increased book sales). i just thought emphasizing the other side of the story is a good idea before we decide to smear the name of an otherwise reputable officer
Sure, racism exists in our country, there is no doubt. Racial profiling happens to, no doubt. That doesn't mean we can jump the gun and accuse every white officer who arrests a black man of being racist. It only perpetuates racism.
i don't think this was an instance of racial bias.
when you chase a cop as he is leaving your house (signifying no intent to arrest), yelling out insults about his mother, you should expect to be taken to jail white, black, or purple.
Its now being reported that Gates is the head of a charity thats taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars yet only paid out about $27,000 in 5 years. Among the charities listed assets are rare artworks and possibly Gates's home. Mass. revenue department is investigating Gates's trips to China among other things as possible tax fraud and may be the reason for Gates's abnormal behavior.
Maybe in addition to being a sham "race relations" professor he is also a tax cheat.
Let's talk instead about the person who conducted himself least admirably in this entire situation... the man who assigned condemnations of another man's actions without any factual knowledge -- and did so through the megaphone of the national media. Then, when some real facts started to come to light, and it became clear even to him that he had acted irresponsibly, he tapdanced, backpedaled, and shmoozed his way around a truthful apology.
Wait, we already *were* talking about AGENDAS, now, weren't we... heh heh heh... so then this fits right in.
Oh, the man was President Obama, the leader of the United States of America, by the way.
I like to think King George the III in somewhere in white people's heaven smiling and looking down on us.
Smiling because he was right-- we're a fractured, maniac, untrusting and brutish country that essentially complains and threatens violence at any encroachment of practicality or common sense.
Not very modern to say the least. Dignity and morality, along with the saints and angels, must be asleep!
Arresting a 60 year old man who uses a cane because he says "Your Momma" when you question what he is doing in his own home is NOT stupid?
Sticks and stones.
Be a professional and walk away from it.
Gates should have watched his mouth BUT if you find yourself being constantly stopped by police because of your race or the way you dress, you might have a very short fuse.
The real way out of this is to sit and talk about it openly which is why Obama invited the policeman and Gates to sit down and have a beer.
There are other things going on in Cambridge... There's the Townie versus the Prof thing. Having an open discussion and making a teachable moment out of this for all of us including Obama and Gates and the cop.
I hope the president asks Gates about his taxes. When I was audited and spent 3 weeks digging up filings and billings at great personal expense I wasn't offered a beer or the chance to talk about my feelings.
I would if if He gets fined the appropriate amount. For your information I dint see this on Fox News and dont care much for Fox networks. What I do care about is every time I read about prominent politicians, business people or persons of interest and power they seem to have tax issues. I smell a double standard in this country of elites versus suckers like me who do the work and Im tired of of it. I've been involved in the ownership of 3 companies and employed a lot of people while paying taxes in amounts greater than most people will make in their lives and seeing the blatant displays of wanton displays of evasion by people supposedly looking out for us makes me sick, not better. I would feel better if the rule of law applied to the governing class. I would also feel better if the younger people on this board weren't so blindly lead into emotional arguments of little consequence, its their future at stake not mine.
"Be a professional and walk away from it."
So the officer should be expected to act more professional while being immaturely jeered and provoked by "the nation's most famous black scholar"?!? Gates is lucky that cop didn't knock his old ass out for insulting his mother bc that would be the tip of the iceberg in most situations. Instead, he did the professional thing by arresting him for being disorderly in public. And it wasn't immediate, only after crowley had walked out of Gates home amidst jeering and was CHASED outside by Gates. Gates should be ashamed of himself for how UNprofessional and childish he acted.
"BUT if you find yourself being constantly stopped by police because of your race or the way you dress, you might have a very short fuse."
He wasn't stopped because of his race, or how he dresses, or the music he listens, to or the religion he belongs to, or because he was "Driving While Black"...he was stopped because there was a burglary reported...gah! don't you people understand that? he was responding to a reported burglary...he wasn't driving through neighborhoods searching for black people hanging out in houses.
"The real way out of this is to sit and talk about it openly which is why Obama invited the policeman and Gates to sit down and have a beer."
Sure, add alcohol to the situation. That ALWAYS makes things better and is the only REAL way to deal with a sensitive subject. NOT! c'mon president, you were the one in the wrong in the first place by making uninformed statements, now you suggest of all things alcohol as a way to end the dispute. You do realize whatever you say will become a national headline? So why suggest something ridiculous like that? Further I imagine there is no way a debate with someone as hard-headed, outspoken (and no doubt outrageously snobbish and snarky) as Gates will achieve anything. Add alcohol to the mix and that conversation would be plain torture. I hope Crowley never has to hear that crook's voice again, personally.
maybe the cambridge police dept should just memorize every residence occupied by blacks, and then the next time a burglary is reported at one of them, totally disregard it. it would be totally racist to secure the scene at a place like that.
I wonder how the situation would have played out if a black cop had showed up at gates doorstep...i bet he would've provided ID before any jeering commenced...i bet he wouldn't have chased after him, shouting insults, as he was leaving. Maybe Gates is really the racist one, and was so offended by having a white man on his property (ehem Harvard's property) that he couldn't resist insulting the man.
so when did we abdicate our free speech again? because if it had been me and the cop was less than forth coming about his reason for being there and asking me questions, i'd have been ornery too. oh and by the by, lets say for instance, like me, the professor had a DL with his old address, and the reason for this was because he just moved in the new residence and like me hates the DMV. so, what proof, immediate proof, do i have available that i own the residence?
what some of you fail to get is the past history of racism and the Mass police department's inherent biases.
crowley wasn't responding to a reported burglary, he was responding to an attempted burglary.
unprofessional or not, people have a right to criticize cops, especially ones that refuse to give badge and name. crowley can't handle being yelled at, he should become a pastry chef.
and beta, i've worked really hard to try and forget how racist some folks i know in boston are - historical racism in mass cops (and it's def not just limited to cops) is horrendous.
"Be a professional and walk away from it."
So the officer should be expected to act more professional while being immaturely jeered and provoked by "the nation's most famous black scholar"?!?
That's why you're a cop. You keep the peace and keep your cool. That's what being a professional is all about.
"You keep the peace and keep your cool. That's what being a professional is all about."
true. which is why it is good that crowley didn't do anything out of line like hit the man. he kept his cool, and he kept the peace that gates was disrupting, by arresting him. of course, we have the right to speak free, and criticize cops. however, there is a certain breaking point where one goes from simple criticism, to loud, unruly, disorderly conduct (which is an arrestable offense)...clearly, officer crowley believed gates to have gone past this breaking point.
i understand that there is a history of racism in mass. police, but this simply is not a strong enough case to consider it racial profiling.
beta, i see what you're saying about having an old address on your ID card. i actually had a similar circumstance where a cop asked for my id while i was right outside my new house. i gave him the ID, old address and all, he ran it through the system, confirmed that it was my new residence, and was on his way.
Make, are you still in denial about the facts of this case? Some of these posts are absolutely bananas.
In any case, the main and most important issue in this incident is not whether the cop or Gates could have handled themselves better. Whoopee.
The GIANT issue is that President Obama had NO IDEA what really happened at the time he made the irresponsible comments. Now that approach may be OK with you, make, but Obama's handling of that situation is a tough sell among most people, and you'll need to get that part straight. It was a serious blunder. At least admit that part.
Most would argure that we NEED to expect more from the leader of the free world.
Why Are We Not Talking About Henry Louis Gates Jr. ?
The arrest of eminent Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., said Carol Rose in The Boston Globe, is fresh proof of the evils of racial profiling. Cambridge police, who have wisely dropped all charges, clearly treated Gates as "suspicious"—even though he was in his own home. And the incident illustrated that Gates wasn't being disorderly when he told an officer "this is what happens to black men in America"—he was just speaking the truth.
Few people are naive enough to claim racial profiling doesn't happen, said Kevin Aylward in Wizbang, but that doesn't mean Henry Louis Gates Jr. should be crying victim. Gates says he wasn't yelling or being uncooperative with an officer investigating a report of a burglary at Gates' home—but the police report tells a different story. Anyone who's as "uncooperative" with investigating officers as Gates was could end up in the back of a squad car.
Maybe Henry Louis Gates Jr. was "loud and assertive," said the Los Angeles Times in an editorial. If he was, it's easy to understand why. "The real problem is that his color trumped everything else, including his prominence, his familiarity with the house, and his identification showing that he lived there. It demoted him from citizen to suspect."
The one question I am left asking, because I don't doubt the cop was out of line here, is this; why are Mr. Gate's neighbors unaware who lives around them? What I am getting at is this; are WE not all culpable for the actions of two probably well meaning individuals - brought together to create an absurdly avoidable situation - when we refuse to talk to our neighbors because of racial/ethnic/religious fears/prejudices?
It seems clear from me that this entire event, this singular event, could have been avoided if both Mr. Gates and his neighbors knew each other, looked out for each others property and actually gave a shit about what goes on in the neighborhood, instead of shrugging shoulders, and passing the buck.
I'm trying to think of when I haven't been profiled.
Yeah this shit was wack..
beta...i am pretty sure it was not specified that the original 9-11 caller was a neighbor (please let me know if i am wrong)...i have a feeling it was a passer-by who saw something they deemed suspicious, and reported it...
now, although there was clearly no reason to arrest mr. gates after he showed his ID, if I was putting my shoulder into the front door of my house to get it unstuck, and a police officer stopped by a few minutes later to investigate someone trying to break into my house, I would have absolutely no problem showing my ID...
but in the end of the day, so much could be meant by the tone of the voice of the police officer as he "investigated", we will never know how racially motivated this really was...regardless, once the ID was presented, a "thank you very much mr. gates, sorry for any inconvenience" should've been all.
simples, i think the article and news have reported that a neighbor reported a burglary.
apparently Gates is about 5'-7" and utilizes a cane. hardly the "stereotypical" burglar, more likely that a black man, owning a home in affluent area should not exist, but i digress. i still think that the issue could have been avoided if communities really existed.
b3:
I agree, real communities don't exist in the way they used to exist.
but racial profiling is the result of that and it deserves SOME attention
What are some examples of communities "the way they used to exist"?
i think a time did exist where communities looked out for one another. isn't that the definition of a community?
my point however, is that if we acted according to our best intentions, rather than our worst fears, then perhaps we'd be a little better towards one another?
The report I heard is that Gates refused to show his ID when the police first arrived.
What do people think will happen when police arrive to a reported break-in and the person in the house refuses to show ID or cooporate, and then proceeds to start mouthing off to the cops. Doesn't matter if he is black, white, or purple. If this was true it is not racial profiling but the grandstanding of an elitest snob.
On top of this the neighbor who witnessed the arrest reported that Gates was yelling at the police prior to being handcuffed. Again, start yelling and screaming at a police officer and what do you expect?
"stephen, i find you impenetrable; on the one hand your voluminous discourse on piranesi is endlessly fascinating - i would love to buy your book - on the other hand any attempt at trying to have a dialogue with you regarding the topic, stops at the initial query. your perfect knowledge in that area makes any opportunity to glean something new and useful not worth my time. i feel stupid for even asking you a question, that the mere nature of my question is a waste of your time."
I see this as an example of acting according to your worst fears, as opposed to acting according to your best (as highlighted above)intentions.
So what are those communities that looked out for each other again?
love ya lauf, love ya. you're wrong however. i still would love to buy your book have contemplated it many times. have visited your website, read your comments, etc., the problem i have is that text in an online format does not provide me with the necessary, real dialogue i need from you, and many others that have deeply engaging thoughts and ideas. i need real, visceral dialog, i need to hear your voice, hear your inflection, so i can hear your ideas. none of this tit for tat works for me.
your seeming need to pin me down in some fashion, as though to catch me in some kind of contradictory statement, does one thing; reveal your own flaw, that of failing to recognize the potentiality of new growth, and of coming to terms with my own internal dialog.
my original quote stands true. i do feel dim for asking a question, and i think most do when it comes to you, because you are seem less interested in educating, and more interested in your own solipsisms...
that you read my comment as a slight against you, and that you've held so dearly to my remarks, makes me sad.
I heard a story once of a little girl walking home from school who picked a daffodil from her neighbor's yard. By the time she had gotten home, the owner of the daffodils had called the girl's mother to report the picking. So when the girl went to give the flower to her mom, the mom said "You aren't allowed to pick other people's flowers! Now take that back down the street to Ms. Neighbor's house where it belongs!".
That's how neighborhoods used to exist and honestly, it depended a hell of a lot on one parent - not neccessariy the female - staying home all day.
And what I need is for you to act on your best intentions.
i am on a neighborhood caucus, and one group of neighbors can't convince the other group, that kids from outside the area that do the following; defecate on playground eqpt, curse like sailors, graffiti eqpt, break crap, shoot fireworks, and damage other pples property - all after the posted curfew - is worth banding together and responding in an appropriate fashion.
ok, i'll bite, what would be my best intentions?
If you don't even know your own best intentions, then perhaps you actually don't have any. Maybe you're someone that does act mostly out of fear.
bringing this back to the topic...a new age of domestic isolationism?!?!
luckly i have a good relationship with my neighbors, and we help each other out, especially while someone is travelling...but hey, it's detroit metro...can't expect the same standards out of cambridge!
in all honesty, a bit of common sense all around would've solved that whole mess..
From Talking Points Memo: President digs in on controversial claim that arresting people in their own homes when they're not breaking any law represents substandard police work.
I love that we live in a country where even questioning the actions of a police officer is taboo, where police unions and organizations have so much power that you can't even criticize them.
Now the Cambridge Police are calling our president a disgrace because he questions their (admittedly hamhanded) actions. Unfortunately, he said they acted "stupidly", which some people not very good at wielding the English language seem to have taken to mean that he was calling them "stupid."
"What do people think will happen when police arrive to a reported break-in and the person in the house refuses to show ID or cooporate, and then proceeds to start mouthing off to the cops. Doesn't matter if he is black, white, or purple. If this was true it is not racial profiling but the GRANDSTANDING OF AN ELITEST SNOB.
On top of this the neighbor who witnessed the arrest reported that Gates was yelling at the police prior to being handcuffed. Again, start yelling and screaming at a police officer and what do you expect?"
thanks cln1...this is also the impression i get>> a cop asks for your id, you give that shit to them. in lots of places you will be taken to jail for what they call p.o.p. (pissing off the police). not sayin it's right, just sayin, and it sounded like Gates was acting pretty disorderly which is what he was apprehended for. just because you teach at harvard doesn't mean you're above the law
lots of places black men get shot for mouthing off to cops.
this was not a traffic stop. this was simply this; a black man has no right owning a home in an affluent neighborhood. it's the same thing when i used to drive up and down NJ Turnpike and GSP, 9 times out of 10 cars i saw pulled over by Troopers were African Americans, DWB - Driving While Black. there were lawsuits about this. now here's a 5'-4" or 5'-7" black man, with a cane "breaking" into a home, and the man has to show ID? give me a break. if a cop asked me for my ID at my home, i'd tell him to piss off too. oh, wait, come to think of it, i probably wouldn't, my ID shows my old address...
here's a thought; he took a cab from the airport, what if he didn't have his DL handy? what if he lost it on the way from the airport, perhaps he left it somewhere, perhaps it was stolen, then what?
“I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station,” Mr. Obama added. “I also continue to believe, based on what I heard that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. My sense is you’ve got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved and the way they would have liked it to be resolved.”
i guess Prez backs my thought.
I wish Sarah Palin would sound off on this...she would give a fair and balanced opinon....ya right!
"lots of places black men get shot for mouthing off to cops."
maybe, but gates wasn't shot...he was taken in to jail for acting unruly and screaming at a cop. when you scream at a cop, you get arrested for disorderly conduct. it doesn't matter whose house you are in or how special you may think you are.
"he took a cab from the airport, what if he didn't have his DL handy? what if he lost it on the way from the airport, perhaps he left it somewhere, perhaps it was stolen, then what?"
if he was coming from the airport, it is much more than likely that he DID have his DL handy...after all they do require ID to get in to the airport terminal (passport maybe???)...if he had lost or left it somewhere, then he could have informed the police officers and maintained a tone of respect. i understand that gates was annoyed by the inconvenience, but if he had co-operated there would have been no reason for officers to book him...they were the ones called to the scene, they are trying not to get killed, they need to be cautious and certain about every suspect.
if gates had been beaten to a pulp after yelling at the cops, i would see this completely different. however, he wasn't touched. he was apprehended, booked, and released with the charges dropped...and now gates is going to try to ruin this officer's career. why? to save him from his own embarrassment due to acting out of line? and he is using none other than his good friend, the president, to back him up...it helps to have friends in high places
And, just for the record, that obama quote supports both sides of the story.
"now here's a 5'-4" or 5'-7" black man, with a cane "breaking" into a home, and the man has to show ID?"
beta...hate do disagree with you, but yes, he has to! (and eventually he did, and that should've been the end of it!)
Boston NOT racist?
It's a complicated. They should have treated him with some respect.
What if he was white?
i would have just offered the cop some blow and a blowjob!
It should also be noted that this neighborhood has a history of break-in's..
The words of officer Crowley:
(ill probably screw up this link)
http://audio.weei.com/m/25432556/sgt-james-crowley-cambridge-police.htm
obama invites them both to the white house for a beer?!? what a joke, what a waste of time! obama aren't you supposed to be saving the world? not gratifying a loud mouthed academic who wants a boost in book sales. first it was the uninformed attacks at the police, now this? the president's actions are frownable at this point.
the way gates conducted himself, it seems he was trying to be arrested...this must've been a publicity stunt. How low it is that an ivy league professor would bring an individual's mother into the dispute.
It seems to me that crowley followed exact procedure. On top of that, look at all the accommodations made for this priss (handcuffs in front, ride in a cruiser, no jail cell because he is claustrophobic, gets to congregate with family while in custody) and he still has the audacity to egg this thing on?!?
Perhaps the worst part is that gates, through his actions, has potentially endangered the family of officer crowley. there are, no doubt, some ignorant gang-bangers in the area ready to off a guy's family for his purported racism (when they, in truth, are the racist ones!).
I like how people here have to take one side or the other with vehemence and no gray area at all. It all depends on what really happened doesn't it? (a video of the incident might help) Gates and Crowley are giving slightly different versions of the story.
In the link above, Crowley states that Gates gave him a Harvard ID with no address and then got abusive. This is what Gates says:
"The white officer who arrived found Gates in the house (the driver was gone) and asked him to step outside. Gates refused, and the officer followed him in. Gates showed him his ID, which included his address, then demanded that the officer identify himself. The officer did not comply, Gates said. He then followed the officer outside, saying repeatedly, "Is this how you treat a black man in America?"
"Gates showed him his ID, which included his address": if that ID also included his picture, then it proves he lives there (and even the officer admits that Gates didn't look and comport himself like a burglar) then Crowley is done there: he's talking to the person who lives there and thus not a burglar and has no warrant and can thus be asked to leave the premises by Gates. It all depends on what really happened, and it sounds like a case of "my word against yours" (if they were the only parties present).
Also, if Crowley was indeed worried about the presence of burglars in the house of which Gates might not have been aware, as he says in the interview, instead of saying "who else is in the house?", which is very vague and accusing, he could have just clearly said "Burglars were reported by a witness to be breaking into your house: do you mind if we check the house out for your safety?", which is a reasonable request.
There actually was another officer there...I am having trouble finding the interview with him, but he agreed that crowley had acted according to standard procedure.
yes, of course there is a gray area over what really happened. however, the press, and people on this feed, seem overwhelmingly on the side of gates.
personally, i find it more plausible that he is in the wrong, and creating something out of nothing. gates is an intelligent man and his actions were those of someone unintelligent (unless there was some type of hidden agenda: publicity/increased book sales). i just thought emphasizing the other side of the story is a good idea before we decide to smear the name of an otherwise reputable officer
Sure, racism exists in our country, there is no doubt. Racial profiling happens to, no doubt. That doesn't mean we can jump the gun and accuse every white officer who arrests a black man of being racist. It only perpetuates racism.
i don't think this was an instance of racial bias.
when you chase a cop as he is leaving your house (signifying no intent to arrest), yelling out insults about his mother, you should expect to be taken to jail white, black, or purple.
Its now being reported that Gates is the head of a charity thats taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars yet only paid out about $27,000 in 5 years. Among the charities listed assets are rare artworks and possibly Gates's home. Mass. revenue department is investigating Gates's trips to China among other things as possible tax fraud and may be the reason for Gates's abnormal behavior.
Maybe in addition to being a sham "race relations" professor he is also a tax cheat.
Read that here
wsj
Let's talk instead about the person who conducted himself least admirably in this entire situation... the man who assigned condemnations of another man's actions without any factual knowledge -- and did so through the megaphone of the national media. Then, when some real facts started to come to light, and it became clear even to him that he had acted irresponsibly, he tapdanced, backpedaled, and shmoozed his way around a truthful apology.
Wait, we already *were* talking about AGENDAS, now, weren't we... heh heh heh... so then this fits right in.
Oh, the man was President Obama, the leader of the United States of America, by the way.
I like to think King George the III in somewhere in white people's heaven smiling and looking down on us.
Smiling because he was right-- we're a fractured, maniac, untrusting and brutish country that essentially complains and threatens violence at any encroachment of practicality or common sense.
Not very modern to say the least. Dignity and morality, along with the saints and angels, must be asleep!
Hey Malcontent,
Arresting a 60 year old man who uses a cane because he says "Your Momma" when you question what he is doing in his own home is NOT stupid?
Sticks and stones.
Be a professional and walk away from it.
Gates should have watched his mouth BUT if you find yourself being constantly stopped by police because of your race or the way you dress, you might have a very short fuse.
The real way out of this is to sit and talk about it openly which is why Obama invited the policeman and Gates to sit down and have a beer.
There are other things going on in Cambridge... There's the Townie versus the Prof thing. Having an open discussion and making a teachable moment out of this for all of us including Obama and Gates and the cop.
to finish teh last sentence...
Is the intelligent thing to do. It's about fostering community and finding common ground. Let's work on this more.
I hope the president asks Gates about his taxes. When I was audited and spent 3 weeks digging up filings and billings at great personal expense I wasn't offered a beer or the chance to talk about my feelings.
Jack,
Thanks for the Fox News take. Yes, Dr. Gates is a tax-evading, evil human being!
Do you feel better?
This has nothing to do with finding common ground and understanding but with Jack getting revenge for his being audited...
I would if if He gets fined the appropriate amount. For your information I dint see this on Fox News and dont care much for Fox networks. What I do care about is every time I read about prominent politicians, business people or persons of interest and power they seem to have tax issues. I smell a double standard in this country of elites versus suckers like me who do the work and Im tired of of it. I've been involved in the ownership of 3 companies and employed a lot of people while paying taxes in amounts greater than most people will make in their lives and seeing the blatant displays of wanton displays of evasion by people supposedly looking out for us makes me sick, not better. I would feel better if the rule of law applied to the governing class. I would also feel better if the younger people on this board weren't so blindly lead into emotional arguments of little consequence, its their future at stake not mine.
I agree, audit him. That's fair but it it's not the top issue. The IRS doesn't screw around.
Race relations are really delicate and they have been neglected for decades and are of HUGE consequence.
"Be a professional and walk away from it."
So the officer should be expected to act more professional while being immaturely jeered and provoked by "the nation's most famous black scholar"?!? Gates is lucky that cop didn't knock his old ass out for insulting his mother bc that would be the tip of the iceberg in most situations. Instead, he did the professional thing by arresting him for being disorderly in public. And it wasn't immediate, only after crowley had walked out of Gates home amidst jeering and was CHASED outside by Gates. Gates should be ashamed of himself for how UNprofessional and childish he acted.
"BUT if you find yourself being constantly stopped by police because of your race or the way you dress, you might have a very short fuse."
He wasn't stopped because of his race, or how he dresses, or the music he listens, to or the religion he belongs to, or because he was "Driving While Black"...he was stopped because there was a burglary reported...gah! don't you people understand that? he was responding to a reported burglary...he wasn't driving through neighborhoods searching for black people hanging out in houses.
"The real way out of this is to sit and talk about it openly which is why Obama invited the policeman and Gates to sit down and have a beer."
Sure, add alcohol to the situation. That ALWAYS makes things better and is the only REAL way to deal with a sensitive subject. NOT! c'mon president, you were the one in the wrong in the first place by making uninformed statements, now you suggest of all things alcohol as a way to end the dispute. You do realize whatever you say will become a national headline? So why suggest something ridiculous like that? Further I imagine there is no way a debate with someone as hard-headed, outspoken (and no doubt outrageously snobbish and snarky) as Gates will achieve anything. Add alcohol to the mix and that conversation would be plain torture. I hope Crowley never has to hear that crook's voice again, personally.
maybe the cambridge police dept should just memorize every residence occupied by blacks, and then the next time a burglary is reported at one of them, totally disregard it. it would be totally racist to secure the scene at a place like that.
I wonder how the situation would have played out if a black cop had showed up at gates doorstep...i bet he would've provided ID before any jeering commenced...i bet he wouldn't have chased after him, shouting insults, as he was leaving. Maybe Gates is really the racist one, and was so offended by having a white man on his property (ehem Harvard's property) that he couldn't resist insulting the man.
so when did we abdicate our free speech again? because if it had been me and the cop was less than forth coming about his reason for being there and asking me questions, i'd have been ornery too. oh and by the by, lets say for instance, like me, the professor had a DL with his old address, and the reason for this was because he just moved in the new residence and like me hates the DMV. so, what proof, immediate proof, do i have available that i own the residence?
what some of you fail to get is the past history of racism and the Mass police department's inherent biases.
roarch,
crowley wasn't responding to a reported burglary, he was responding to an attempted burglary.
unprofessional or not, people have a right to criticize cops, especially ones that refuse to give badge and name. crowley can't handle being yelled at, he should become a pastry chef.
and beta, i've worked really hard to try and forget how racist some folks i know in boston are - historical racism in mass cops (and it's def not just limited to cops) is horrendous.
So the officer should be expected to act more professional while being immaturely jeered and provoked by "the nation's most famous black scholar"?!?
That's why you're a cop. You keep the peace and keep your cool. That's what being a professional is all about.
"You keep the peace and keep your cool. That's what being a professional is all about."
true. which is why it is good that crowley didn't do anything out of line like hit the man. he kept his cool, and he kept the peace that gates was disrupting, by arresting him. of course, we have the right to speak free, and criticize cops. however, there is a certain breaking point where one goes from simple criticism, to loud, unruly, disorderly conduct (which is an arrestable offense)...clearly, officer crowley believed gates to have gone past this breaking point.
i understand that there is a history of racism in mass. police, but this simply is not a strong enough case to consider it racial profiling.
beta, i see what you're saying about having an old address on your ID card. i actually had a similar circumstance where a cop asked for my id while i was right outside my new house. i gave him the ID, old address and all, he ran it through the system, confirmed that it was my new residence, and was on his way.
Make, are you still in denial about the facts of this case? Some of these posts are absolutely bananas.
In any case, the main and most important issue in this incident is not whether the cop or Gates could have handled themselves better. Whoopee.
The GIANT issue is that President Obama had NO IDEA what really happened at the time he made the irresponsible comments. Now that approach may be OK with you, make, but Obama's handling of that situation is a tough sell among most people, and you'll need to get that part straight. It was a serious blunder. At least admit that part.
Most would argure that we NEED to expect more from the leader of the free world.
new thread title:
"Why Are We Still Taking About Henry Louis Gates Jr.?"
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