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Student Loans for international students studying in the US--particularly Canadians

awk9

Citibank offered a loan called the CitiAssist Global Program that allowed you to apply for a loan in the US without having to have a US cosigner. Due to the recession this loan is no longer being offered.

Does anyone else know of any other options for international students that do not require a US cosigner? I might be fucked otherwise.

 
Jul 6, 09 7:15 pm
switch

I would be curious to know as well...

Jul 6, 09 8:28 pm  · 
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cfso1952

U are not fucked...I think u can get loans from ur provincial and federal government (at least for undergrads, not sure about grad school)

Jul 6, 09 11:32 pm  · 
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awk9

For undergrad: prov/fed loans are only applicable if you are in a program within a US school that is not offered in any Canadian school. And even then I think the maximum disbursement is 10k.

For grad school: prov/fed loans do not even come close to covering tuition (substantial for an international student) let alone cover a portion of the entire cost of schooling (room/board/tuition/fees/random spending)

Jul 7, 09 1:26 am  · 
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d-train

theres no hope

Jul 7, 09 1:41 am  · 
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aquapura

Wouldn't a Canadian bank issue you a student or personal loan? Back when I was an undergrad the university started taking credit cards for tuition and several north of the border friends were paying with Canadian issued cards so the bill would get converted over to CAD dollars and paid from their accounts back home.

Jul 7, 09 10:17 am  · 
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archinet

hey....not only are canadians ineligible to receive loans from citibank or other american banks; canadian banks either don't lend out to students studying abroad or if they do they usually don't lend out more then 15 000$. If they do lend out 40 000$ or more you would have to be studying either medicine or law. I tried TD and they are trying to make an exception for me- however I need a seriously loaded co-signer...so i am not sure its going to work with my parents....i think i am screwed as well.

...the bank told me my parents might have to re-mortgage their house ....i really don't want that to happen...its bad...i am in the same situation...

Jul 7, 09 10:30 am  · 
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cfso1952

I might be in the same boat in a few years. But some banks do offer student-line of credits. Like they only charge you interests on the amount u actually use instead of how much you receive at the beginning. Even that barely covers living expenses for those private schools in U.S.

Jul 7, 09 10:55 am  · 
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archinet

that's i think we should write a letter to our MP's....it truly sucks...something has to be done

Jul 7, 09 2:52 pm  · 
 · 

why an american school anyway?

especially for undergrad? in architecture i don't think it matters one whit as the education is pretty much the same. canadian schools are all pretty good.

for m.arch. i would think about harvard or bartlett, but for undergrad is a misallocation of resources...

fyi i did b.e.d. and m.arch at u of manitoba then ph.d. at university of tokyo. worked in london and tokyo with students from aa harvard columbia bartlett and never once felt out of my league. i have own office now and think perhaps some wealthy friends from mba at harvard would be very handy right now, but apart from that no regrets...


your parents should never get a mortgage to pay for your education. it took me a lot longer than my friends but i paid for most of my education with cash (earned by working in offices). i have no debt and that put me ahead of game when i finished school. i didn't have to take whatever job paid the loans and could take the jobs i wanted. and that made enormous difference....

just my $0.10

Jul 7, 09 8:07 pm  · 
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awk9

jump-- I respect your line of thinking, however, you have to realize that it's different for everybody. The topic at hand is not why we decided to choose a particular school (this topic has been exhausted in other threads), instead, it's how we're going to pay for it.

archinet-- true!

cfso-- I have a meeting with a TD bank rep tomorrow to discuss the possibilities of a student line of credit. I have friends in med/dental/law school that have gotten up to $150k, of course they were attending Canadian institutions, hopefully an exception can be made. I will let you guys know what they say tomorrow.

Jul 8, 09 1:49 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

who knew they were still letting Canadians in the US, i thought they were on the terrorist watch list...learn somefin new everyday.

j/k

i love you Canada!

Jul 8, 09 5:50 am  · 
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bowling_ball

awk9, while I know some in medicine who've gotten $100K+ lines of credit, I also know a friend of mine doing her M.Arch who applied for a line of credit, for only $10K, and she got turned down. Oh, we're in Canada, btw. Anyway, she was told that even though her credit's good, "architecture is not a profession" like medicine or law, so she was ineligible. The crazy part is she owns a house and two vehicles with her husband, so it's not like she didn't have collateral.

I hope your luck is better.

Jul 9, 09 12:13 pm  · 
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switch

awk9 - how did the meeting with TD go?

Jul 9, 09 2:52 pm  · 
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awk9

"architecture is not a profession", well thats fantastic!! Hah!

Did not have the meeting yet, things at work ran a little later than usual so I had to reschedule. I will keep you all posted.

Seriously though, does no one have any alternatives?

Jul 9, 09 8:17 pm  · 
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hah, that is seriously funny dustin! wonder if true for all banks or just a one off excuse...

the only canadian i know who went to USA school from canada went on a hockey scholarship. he came back to canada after injury.

i wish i had alternatives other than "live within your means" (which is a good idea in any case), but apart from that i guess you maybe could look into scholarships. there must be some out there. my phd for example was free (plus living stipend), and the AIA paid for half of my grad school tuition...


very curious to hear what bank says.

Jul 9, 09 10:21 pm  · 
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aquapura

jump, I know that the Univ of MN offers reciprocity to Manitoba residents. Assuming other US border states offer similar programs to nearby Canadian provinces. When I was in undergrad I can think of at least 3 Canadian residents in the Architecture/LA programs in my class alone. The only real complaint I recall about money was Canadian students were only allowed to have jobs through the University as part of their student visas, so working in a local firm was off limits. Regardless, getting that in-state tuition through reciprocity is a huge $$$ savings over what you'd need to save/borrow/etc.

I'm wondering how it works the other way. If an American wanted to attend the U of Manitoba would an American bank loan the money?

Jul 10, 09 9:39 am  · 
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archinet

hey awk9

What happened with TD? It did not work for me...to many barriers, first one being that I am going to an american school-typically Canadian banks don't give out money to people studying out of the country. Second they usually don't give out more then 10k for architecture students....it probably can work though if you have a seriously wealthy co-signer, like a developer or a corporate sponser. Maybe your boss? So i am either thinking of taking a year out and working and saving up-who knows maybe citi-bank will be lending out again by next year. Or just finishing my masters at that boring Canadian university-really unhappy there :(

Jul 11, 09 12:18 pm  · 
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erjonsn

Go to the Bank of Montreal.

www.bmo.com

I am Canadian but I study architecture in America. I applied and was very easily given $45,000 over 5 years (I am in a 5-year M.Arch). I am not wealthy either.

Jul 12, 09 4:15 am  · 
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awk9

The meeting with TD went ok. They put in the paper work for my request but we won't know if I'm approved until Tuesday. The rep also mentioned that if my parents were willing to cosign, there is another option in the form of a home equity loan that they can take out against any of their properties, bearing interest of 3.2%. If the student line of credit is not approved, I might have too look into that.

%% - Thats great, but 45k over 5 yrs won't be enough for me. I would prob be looking at 45k for a yr, I don't know? Is that just preposterous? I feel like I'm the only one in this boat, is there anyone else borrowing this much?

Jul 12, 09 10:26 pm  · 
 · 

i guess that is what most americans do isn't it?

it has repercussions though...even my canadian friends who had super high loans - nothing so high as american counterparts - were stuck taking jobs they didn't like and put off purchase of house and car and then worried about whether they could have children...very stressful for all involved.

to be fair, 10-15 years later for most of those friends it has all worked out just not as they had planned...but i still think that, whatever the school, the burden of life after education is not worth it if the loans are too high.

all of the doors that open up by going to a great school close pretty fast again if you can't afford to walk though them because of crippling debt. this is the voice of experience talking. i watched it all go down.

not that i mean to be a naysayer mind you. I do hope you get to do all you want to and that it all works out. just be aware that debt has to be paid back and many architecture jobs will not be enough...

Jul 13, 09 2:08 am  · 
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erjonsn

awk9, what school(s) are you considering attending? i go to one of those $45,000/year schools but i got some scholarship money.

Jul 13, 09 5:31 am  · 
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archinet

hey I also got some scholarship money from those 45k schools and i'd be done in 2.5 years...but i am still super hesitant to go due to the large amounts of debt i would have to take out 80k U.S. and i already have debt from my canadian school. I am scared that this is just simply too much.

at the same time I do see really smart canadians get doors closed on them because they did go to that no name canadian school......whereas less interesting people really get good positions - (especially taaching positions) because they did go to that name school

on top of that the name schools are really far more advanced when it comes to the computational stuff- you really don't get that in canada.....but i guess it all comes at a price

Jul 13, 09 10:07 am  · 
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bowling_ball

Geeeeze. I'm going to have a debt of about $46K + another $10K from a line of credit when all is said and done, and I'm freaking out worrying how I'm going to pay that all back with an architecture job.

Proceed with caution, that's all I have to say. As it is, I'm going to be saddled with stupid-high monthly payments for 10 years after I graduate... I couldn't imagine if my debt were doubled (or tripled!).

You should talk to someone at your bank about how high the monthly payments will be. It'll probably put things in perspective (ie scare the shit out of you) so you can reevaluate exactly how important it is to attend that US school.

Jul 13, 09 10:19 am  · 
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archinet

...i know its seriously a lot...basically a mortgage

Jul 13, 09 11:05 am  · 
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Philarch

awk9 - Did you mention whether or not this is for B.Arch or M.Arch?

Jul 13, 09 11:55 am  · 
 · 

is for b.arch, i believe.

archinet, you think it was really the school name that was the decider?

my classmates went on to work for starchitects (OMA, etc) and now are becoming kind of famous in own right. as canadian i myself have never really felt outclassed by americans and now run own office in tokyo after brief stint in london. i have phd so have applied to a few schools to teach but where things don't go as i would like i think it is mostly my lack of experience and cetera that puts me out of competition than the fact that i went to university of manitoba...ivy connections are great but in the end it is the person not the school that matters...

or so i will prefer to believe.

naive?

Jul 13, 09 8:10 pm  · 
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archinet

jump
...maybe i think you are naive- but stay that way. I like manitoba- I like mark west and all that stuff up there. I believe you when you say that manitoba is just as good as all those ivy schools- probably is the same if not better....its just that the ivy name is the ivy name- and i agree its stupid- but i have seen it work. they get published more by their friends- and if one does an exhibit they invite their other friends...blah blah.....there was one prof at our school who got tenured in 3 months after graduating from harvard.....crazy...i think it should stop

but if you're good you're good.

i have also seen waterloo grads teach at yale....sorry if i put any doubt in your mind...



Jul 13, 09 9:30 pm  · 
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awk9

%%% - What scholarships did you get? I've scoured the internet aimlessly and have only found scholarships that require me to attend a Canadian Institution.

I'm "tentatively" scheduled to start the 1st year of my M.Arch at Yale.

Jul 13, 09 9:30 pm  · 
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archinet, i can believe it happens that way. i will choose in spite of all reason to think if a person is THAT good it won't matter. i guess the thing about ivies is that you don't need to be THAT good. just bloody good.

i did actually do phd at ivy in japan. it has made a difference, but doesn't work for me in academia here as i am not japanese. as an architect it is really amazing though. clients trust us much more for having gone to school with future prime-ministers etc. i did not have much trouble with the education level though. the professors are more accomplished but the students about the same, and the studios remarkably familiar. i am still not sure what difference that makes...sure i have had chance to chat with kengo kuma and tadao ando, and speak with travelling starchitects as they come through for lectures and studios...but you know it all seems a bit less important once i am back in office...


awk9, somehow i had impression you were planning to go to usa for undergrad...for m.arch. it makes much more sense to me...hope you can get it sorted.

Jul 14, 09 7:14 am  · 
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shubhra09

You may get the all the needed relevant information by visiting:
www.internationalstudentloan.com/
www.iefc.com/
www.usastudyguide.com/financing.htm etc.
There are many other sources also but every lender has different requirements for the borrowers to qualify.

protect foreclosure
http://foreclosureworkouts.info/


Jul 14, 09 11:32 pm  · 
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awk9

shubra, thank you for the information, unfortunately most of those links also state the requirements for a US cosigner.

Jul 15, 09 8:56 pm  · 
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holz.box

45k per year?!? how can a school with a 20+ billion dollar endowment justify charging that much? holy sh*t!

Jul 15, 09 9:13 pm  · 
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totally, holz.box.


i think my tuition for m.arch for 2 years was less than $10k at u of manitoba.

phd at u of tokyo (former profs and students include tadao ando, toyo ito, fumihiko maki, kisho kurokawa, etc etc) has tuition for one term of about $2000-$3000 for PhD. this is for number one ranked school in japan, home to several nobel prize winners and 3 pritzker prize winners. we regularly get world class visitors and all the rest that goes with being on that playing field, but because japanese govt thinks education is important tuition is mostly paid for by the nation of japan. if you can pass the exam and interviews to get in they take down all the barriers they can so you can go.

which is the way all education should be, isnt it?

Jul 16, 09 10:04 pm  · 
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awk9

I have received a response from TD and it is a "no". Again, they only back Canadian institutions, this does not bode well.

Holz -

First-Year M.Arch. I All other students

Tuition $34,950 $34,950
Fees 835 835
Room and Board 11,903 10,803
Books/Personal Expenses 3,896 3,696
_____ _____
$52,750


If anyone finds a solution, please let me know.

Jul 17, 09 12:34 am  · 
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holz.box

seppuku. good luck, man.

Jul 17, 09 1:03 am  · 
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bowling_ball

awk9, I'm still not sure I understand why you feel you need to go to one of the most expensive ivy-league schools on the continent. Again, I think you'd do well to re-evaluate your situation. There are SO MANY excellent schools out there that won't mortgage your life for the next two decades.

Jul 17, 09 10:43 am  · 
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bowling_ball

awk9, I'm still not sure I understand why you feel you need to go to one of the most expensive ivy-league schools on the continent. Again, I think you'd do well to re-evaluate your situation. There are SO MANY excellent schools out there that won't mortgage your life for the next two decades.

Jul 17, 09 10:44 am  · 
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bowling_ball

oops sorry.

Jul 17, 09 10:44 am  · 
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archinet

hey awk9
sorry to hear the news. I am also having troubles. i guess try BMO, since they are more open to Canadians studying in the U.S. Also
contact your school and tell them the situation, they might be able
to help. You can always do the M.arch 1 in canada, then do a M.arch 2
in the states....that way it is only a year and a half of study and they
usually give out loads of financial aid at that point....something I am
considering at this point.

Jul 17, 09 11:34 am  · 
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switch

I seem to recall reading on the Yale website that international students are eligible for some loans through the school itself.

Worth looking into, although I assume you already have.

Jul 17, 09 1:16 pm  · 
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awk9

Dustin - I respect your position on this matter but I have to reiterate, this is not the thread to discuss this issue. I have my reasons for choosing Yale, there are pros and cons to every school, in my case the pros outweigh the cons just as I'm sure they do for the thousands of students that choose these types of institutions.

switch - They do, but I did not get nearly enough.

Talking to other banks soon, I'll let everyone know.

Jul 19, 09 5:55 pm  · 
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switch

Ah yes, good luck and do keep us posted!

Jul 19, 09 6:49 pm  · 
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archinet

hey I tried BMO-but they only give 15K a year for architecture...that's not even enough at my current canadian school-let alone an american one. i think i give up....

Jul 20, 09 11:45 am  · 
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abstraktura

do update this forum if you can! I was on citiassist last year, but still don't have a co-signer for either the States or Canada and I really don't want to cut my M.arch time short. I'm actually starting to get worried that I may not be able to go back. And yes, I feel the crap load of money is worth the tuition. My first year experience alone has proved that already, and I want to see where the last two years take me as well. I'm not just looking for any M.arch degree. I'm looking to get the best crits, best environment and best experience possible for me, and I have found that my current education at Columbia has done that so far.

I'll look into the BMO option though, thanks for mentioning it! Hopefully something comes up? Although every bank keeps telling me I need a cosigner...ugh. Good luck all!

Jul 21, 09 3:16 pm  · 
 · 
archinet

hey awk9 and abstraktura

...any news on obtaining a loan? I might just go back to finish at my cdn school...I got a scholarship to transfer from there and I am still having trouble getting the sufficient funds to go.....I think I should just apply for the m.arch2 after completing the m.arch1 in canada...let me know if you have any leads.

best of luck

Jul 27, 09 1:32 pm  · 
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erjonsn

BMO 15k + OSAP?

Jul 27, 09 1:42 pm  · 
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abstraktura

I just got this in my inbox from Columbia a few hours ago and already applied: http://www.accessgroup.org/isp/

hope to hear back from it tomorrow!

Jul 28, 09 3:17 pm  · 
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archinet

Hey abstraktura

Thanks but I don't go to Columbia or Cornell...the list of schools are very limited. But let us know what happens...

Jul 28, 09 3:52 pm  · 
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archinet


Alright
I should be able to get the funding for this up-coming year. I did receive a fairly generous entrance scholarship and I am fairly confident that i'll get the rest from BMO seeing that I have a really strong co-signer this year. However since I am a transfer student I have 2 years until I am done. Therefore I am worried about my funding for next year. Would it be crazy to decide to just go this year and worry about getting the funds next summer when the time comes? Or is it too risky? Anyone ever done this before? Anyone know if citi assist will be giving out loans again to Canadians by next year?

Jul 29, 09 6:31 pm  · 
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abstraktura

I would do it...but I tend to take risks like that if I find it worth it enough. Maybe some more loans will turn up that won't require a cosigner in the next year? This year was a freak year because of the recession. There usually were loans in previous years (but this is the second time a friend of mine had a loan like that cancelled on her) Good luck with your decision! If you really want to go, you will make it happen, one way or another!

Jul 29, 09 6:42 pm  · 
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