joben:

As you've observed on these forums, yes, the architecture industry is very cyclical. In other words, when the economy and markets are good, architecture has lots of work, and when the economy is bad, achitecture jobs get put on hold or go away. This is true not just of architecture but the entire AEC industry (architecture, engineering, construction). Building projects (the jobs we work on) are expensive and require alot of capital investment from our clients (whether it's residential, commercial, insitutional, corporate, etc.) so they are highly dependent on financing and *credit*... Very generally, clients need money to build, and need to borrow money. So in economic downturns, and especially right now with the problems that banks are facing, even those clients that want to build might not be able to do so because they cannot borrow the money to complete their projects.

That being said, there are many industries that are also cyclical, not just AEC, so many other fields are also subject to economic downturns... For example, during the dot com bust, tech jobs were really bad, or right now, alot of financial people are out of work... And building and construction is one of the largest sectors of the economy, so when things are good, the industry is a good one to be in...

My advice would be:

1. What's your risk tolerance, and what are your priorities? In any profession, there are risks, some less (say professions like doctors, lawyers, nurses, some accounting related professions), and some more (like architecture). If it is more important to you to be stable, then maybe the AEC industry is not the best for you. On the other hand, if it's more important to you to do something you love, to work on design and buildings and construction, sweat it out and work hard and have the feeling of accomplishment of working in a team and seeing something you worked on built, etc. then architecture can be a great job... IMHO one of the perks of architecture is that you work with interesting people, it can be creative but also problem solving, and the things you do are interesting, even to your friends who are not in the profession... It's alot harder for people who are not involved in accounting to get excited about hearing about financial statements... :p

2. Like you're suggesting, diversification can be a good way to mediate against the risk of the AEC industry. It's good to have some other skillsets or qualifications under your belt in case the architecture industry is going through a tough patch... Like the MRP/MArch sounds like a good diverse degree, you could get a job in planning for a city or something or at an architecture firm... Business degrees are also valuable... These days, there's also some value to being able to consult on things, and not just work in architecture... Even within the industry... Like I know some people who have been laid off who are doing other things like: sustainability consulting, or graphic design, or setting up computer cad systems at firms, or teaching, etc. Having a backup expertise or specialty can be a bonus to an architecture firm, or it could give you a backup job choice...

Keep in mind that alot of the pessimism that you are reading about in these forums is because right now we are in one of the worst recessions in most people's career experiences, and I think most people are at least a little down... Three years from now, if you graduate from an M.Arch., the timing might be actually pretty good (who knows) but the economy will probably have taken the positive turn... Graduates right now are a bit unlucky, but people who graduate down the road a few years might be in an up market... Alot of things are timing. I graduated a few years ago and was quite lucky that the market was good, so it's all timing...

Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck and follow your gut, don't lose hope! :)

Thanks bRink... the thing u mentioned about risk tolerance is well, I havent really been in the real world yet... I dont really know the meaning of "risk tolerance"... Can I go days... weeks... months without bringing in a paycheck? well I dont really know anyone who can do that... its scary to think that if I go down this path that I might not have job stability... What if I want to start a family some day... my risk tolerance might be higher than the kids mouths I have to feed... so in that aspect I really dont know... Am I willing to go those extra 2, 3, 4 miles to make sure this doesnt happen? 100% I am... I just want to make sure I take the right path... thats why even though I am taking this year off to try and build up a portfolio so I can apply to MArch programs for 2010, I am still planning on getting certified in something whether it be CAD/buisness/web development/etc. because I know it will help me later down the line whether it be that extra little thing I throw on a resume or that extra piece of knowledge I didnt have before... Life isnt a game, and I have finally begun to realize that during my last 2 years of undergrad... the decisions I make now will last me forever so I want to make sure I make the right ones... I got accepted to SUNY Buffalos MRP program and tomorrow I am going to call them and see if I can defer the enrollment for a year to apply to the MArch program there too so I can guarentee I will come out with both of those masters... I also thought the City College of New Yorks opportunity to get the Masters of Urban Design after the MArch was a great opportunity as well... I am not sure how many doors this will open or whether this the dual MRP/MArch is the smarter choice... these are all things that worry me because I have the drive, I have the passion, I just dont know exactly which direction to steer toward... is getting the buisness certification smarter than getting the CAD certification? will it help me broaden my knowledge to keep more options open, or is getting that extra specialization in CAD going to open more doors? graduates now are indeed a bit unlucky... thats not why I am scarred or nervous about the future... I am scarred and nervous because I would hate to commit myself fully to work my ass off, know that I put in 120% and than only to find out that I should have done 1 or 2 things differently, whether it be do the buisness thing over the CAD thing, or do the Urban Design thing over the MRP thing... either way its alot to digest, and like I said if anyone out there can help give me some piece of mind, or help my decision making I am all ears

wow this is a long thread. I'm sure I'll be repeating what bRink has said but for the sake of summarizing I'll say this. You'll learn CAD in school; if you want to be marketable - be marketable to yourself, which may mean doing some of those business courses. But also look out for things like photography, painting, printing - the practice of architecture is equally about funny technical drawings as it is being able to tap into your creative side and efficiently deliver it to your client.

Wish you luck - follow your dream

I wouldnt worry about starving on a street corner. If you do what you love and pursue it with passion, regardless of what it is - you cant fail.
It wouldnt make sense. Its all hard work but I hear if you do what you love you'll never have to work a day in your life.

investment banks are laying off as much as design firms, does that mean people dont do mbas or enter business school in their undergrad? not really, like brink said, the economy is bound to change, to the better, sooner or later, if you want to do it, just do it,

moreover, you already have a degree which you could fall back on, you wont starve,,

most importantly, dont think too much, yes, be smart about it, but, you have to realize that your views on what you want to do when you graduate will definitely change, dont pigeon-hole yourself just yet

School is the best place to be during a recession. I think deferring is a mistake. You'll be starting just as the economy rebounds.

Certificates will not help you at all. Learn teh stuff, for sure, but do it on your own time (unless you need a class, but books are better than most classes, online forums, Lynda.com, etc.).

Get a dual degree - MBA/MArch. It'll give you the most choices later on.



I agree, follow your dreams, just know that your dreams will change so be prepared for that change. All depends on what your 'dreams' are.

(and no, you can't "fail", but you can lose a job a be broke)

Thanks for the positive reinforcement guys, these are some of the first optimistic words I have seen on archinect.

architechnophilia "Be marketable to myself"? what do you mean? I had been wondering if trying to get that certification in CAD might be a waste because I figured I was going to take those classes in architecture school anyway... so than step 1) try and work toward one of the buisness certifications? but I should also try and take some drawing/design/painting/photo/etc classes?

trace-

thanks for the advice... maybe I didnt make it clear though as to why I was deferring... I absolutely agree that school is the place to be right now with the economy where it is, but the graduate program I am defering from is Albanys Masters of Regional Planning program... I thought this was what I wanted to pursue but after talking to countless people in the profession and doing a ton of research, I am not sure I want to just specialize in this area.... Maybe a school with an MRP/MArch, but that would allow me to do architecture which I really want to do... I wanted to defer so I could work on getting into an Arch program (build up portfolio, write letter of intent, study for GRE's)... with that being said since I want to defer to work on my arch application I was going to try and use my time wisely and get a certificate in something, such as buisness-entreupenurship, or web development... I would much rather try and get some actual hands on experience in architecture instead of getting a certificate, but I cant find anything that would take someone with no architecture/design experience already... and how can you say that the economy is going to rebound in a year? the way things are looking the economy is slowly going to work its way back up... I dont know if taking 1 year off to get into a program I will be much happier with will be too detrimental

Do the Regional Planning Program now, and make every project and paper you do for the first semester relevant to architecture. Even if it's an assignment to write a paper, do your own maps and drawings and put them into the paper. During your winter break, compile that work into a portfolio. Then apply to your M. Arch programs and consider the Masters in Urban Design once you get there.

Don't waste so much time on archinect. Chat less, do more.

joben, you won't really learn CAD in architecture school... I don't know about all schools, but I've never seen a graduate level architecture program that gave you credit for courses on software... The course programs in an M.Arch will be studio focused (design) along with other core courses will fall into: structures, building technology, building systems, history, and professional practice... Techniques maybe like technical drawing for people from non-architecture backgrounds... And then other graduate seminars and courses usually history / theory related. Or courses that are advanced level in those categories... That's basically what an M.Arch is, 50% design studio and 50% course curriculum. And then you do your M.Arch thesis usually and defend that... Usually it's a paper and a design project I think.

CAD training is probably essential to be able to do work or get a job, but something you pick up along the way, or you learn through self study or continuing education or community college courses, or you might learn it in a course in school, but it won't *be* the course, you might just be using it... I think what architecnophilia means about "marketing to yourself" is: giving yourself confidence... Software or other technical skills can be something concrete that you can point to, that is immediately useful and could at least get you a job drafting something, and has a immediate labor value. It won't just be autocad that you should learn, but maybe different kinds of 3D modelling and rendering software (I'd suggest 3D studio max) and maybe learn a BIM software like Revit... If you are planning on taking some time off anyway, learning some CAD software and 3D software will be useful to you in school and in the job afterwards, the certificate is probably a good thing, if just to have a piece of paper you can point to tell yourself that you've completed the course requirements and you know the software... :P

Web development may be useful to know, if just to make a portfolio website, you might or might not ever use those skills on the job, but the more you have the better IMHO... A certificate is only useful if you want to get a job as a web designer, which might not be bad for side projects you could pick up on craigslist, or as a backup profession or hobby...

A certificate in business entrepreneurship is probably useless... I'd do a real degree for business school...

Another thing you could do before you go to architecture school that would be valuable: *TAKE LEED AP* Become a LEED accredited professional. It's something that will be recognized on your resume, and is just one exam you can study for if you have the time off, and you don't need an architecture degree to take it. Also, you'll learn some things about sustainable building... LEED is not without it's flaws, but it is basically a standard now... It's recognized not just by architects, it'll be recognized by engineers, consulting firms, cities, others in the building industry...

i think what they probably meant is that you will use CAD so much in school, that you should be able to pick it up very easily and quickly

and not to waste any money on a CAD course before going back to school

which i agree with
if you are willing to spend time to play with the program, you will pick it up very quickly
i would say in about 2 weeks of using it regularly, you can draft most whatever you want


of course, its nice to have that done before you start a grad program
so it might be worth a couple hundred dollars if you can find a cheap class




i agree with becoming a LEED AP
you might be asked why you HAVENT done it when looking for a job if you are a young intern coming out of school
i think at my school there was a course you could take that included taking the exam when the semester ended
its much easier to find time to study when its for a class rather than trying to fit it in while working full time
I did it, but would strongly recommend doing it while in school if possible

Its never stupid to follow your dreams. I have seen people with dreams who have let them fall to the side of the road because they aren't "practical" or "a real career" or stable or whatever, and they end miserable.

If you are going to take a year off, and you are still trying to figure out what to do, my recommendation is to spend this year off working as an intern for various architecture firms. That's where you really will get to see what its like on a daily basis and get a clearer idea of whether or not its what you want to do. It is also a good way to get to know others in the field. When I worked as an intern before I started architecture school, there were other interns there who were already in school and they were a great source of information and advice.

I'm starting CUNY M.Arch this fall...perhaps I'll see you there next year!
(and they don't expect you to enter the program knowing CAD - they are even offering a little crash course in various software...)

joben... let me tell you a story in hopes that you won't feel so confused. i can totally relate to your situation.

my first career aspiration i remember ever having was to be an architect. i was only like 8 years old and i'd draw site plans of my dream home. for some reason, and i've honestly not been able to pinpoint why, i got deterred from that dream and have gone all over the map trying to figure out what to do. at one point i wanted to be a fashion designer and started drawing fashions and my parents got me a sewing machine. at one point i wanted to be a photographer and took photos of inspiring architecture and beautiful things around town. at the start of college i wanted to be a filmmaker and got into cinematography, especially the aspects of lighting and color. so i started the film major, got work on sets and student films, studied trillions of influential works... and after a while of working i realized i didn't like the professional side of it, just the hobby and appreciation if it. i was really disillusioned and started thinking i should have just stuck with my instinct all along (cuz even throughout that whole time i still held architecture as my holy grail career, just thought it was too risky to switch tracks again). i really had to sit down and think it through. instead of dragging out the pity party, i said, fuck it.. i'm going for my dream. my school doesn't have an architecture major, so i switched to the most closely related field i could find there: urban planning. i felt it would give me a great start towards going into a master's of architecture program. and it really has. at school i have accomplished a lot and i have an awesome internship. i'm doing a summer architecture program and then applying to grad schools because i graduate this fall. i am SO happy i did this. i'm infinitely happier and i LOVE what i'm doing.

the moral is, just do it, if it's what you love (by your tone, i can tell you do). go. do it. now. :)

You can get the LEED AP certification without any architecture knowledge? dam I am definitely going to look into that because I wanted to get that anyway I just thought I needed my architecture degree first... anyone have any advice on how to go about finding information on that please let me know... as for the urban planning thing... I dont want to start the program at Albany now because it is a 2 year program so I wouldnt be able to pursue my MArch until after that program is over... I am realllyyy banking on getting into City college of new york because its sooo much cheaper... is very close to me so i can commute... and offers the masters of urban design after the MArch which I feel would be more interesting than urban planning and would really give me the chance to "design" communities rather than "plan." I feel taking this year off is the smartest bet... I can work on my portfolio, study for the GRE's, take some cool design/artistic type courses, take physics and calc (I know most arch programs want a semester of each), try and get that LEED AP cert (again if anyone has any advice on how to go about it please let me know) and HOPEFULLY get an architecture internship or some kind of design internship... The only thing with those internships is from what I have seen unless you have design/architecture experience they wont even look at you... how are people supposed to test out the field if they wont even take you unless your already in it?

I think they've changed the requirements to become LEED AP. See this thread:

http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=87115_0_42_0_C

go into planning... you'll have all the power and all the bitches.

really??? hmm...