People who can't determine the appropriate use of 'your' and 'you're' when formulating sentences should probably be banned. Then again, I should probably be banned for my stupid user name.
I have met the people who never greet you. I find it rude. But as long as you can manage to say hello, it's fine. Nobody has an obligation to speak when he's not in the mood.
LIG - To put my comment in context - I also show a lot of the characteristics, and so do some of my family. But I just don't see the benefit of getting diagnosed myself or saying to my cousin or any other member of my family to get "diagnosed". What does it change to be defined as such? And as I said, I ask that with pure ignorance - not some idealist BS.
Isn't it like car/motorcycle insurance where you turn 25 and you're magically safer than anyone younger than 25? In reality, you're the same driver before or after your 25th birthday, but for insurance its a huge deal.
Another example, on a job interview, I've mentioned I had certain characteristics about myself that were good and bad that are actually associated with characteristics of Aspergers. And I've been known to be brutally honest at interviews. But what would be the benefit of people knowing you "had aspergers" when there are probably other associations with that label that is not true?
Slart: I pretty much agree about getting the diagnosis... Even if it were easy to get the professional diagnosis and there weren't any potential ramifications for future insurance coverage (hopefully the whole insurance situation will change soon), I'm not sure it would make all that much of a difference for most for high-functioning Aspies. Other than providing me with a piece of paper that I could frame and hang on my living room wall, a professional diagnosis certainly wouldn't make a difference in my daily life.
However, if somebody is truly struggling to function on a day-to-day basis and needs some professional help, then that person should pursue whatever means are available to get a professional diagnosis and the proper treatment.
I use pretty much a similar strategy on interviews or in social situations if the need arises. I can describe certain personality traits or quirks without having to "out" myself as an Aspie and go through the whole explanation about what it means.
There is something to be said for being able to identify, communally, what sets you apart. This helps turn the sense of alienation to one of belonging and turns doubt and self-indetermination to confidence and certitude. a coming-out so to speak. i'm not saying, though, that this is a route that is natural to all, this has certainly not been my path. on the other hand, i know two quite talented and sensitive guys who had to withdraw from the course, one who got Leukemia and had to quit, i think he's dead now, i hope he's happy somewhere else, and the other had severe depression and had to be heavily medicated; he didn't make it back to the course. i'm one of those still alive and managed to pull through, so i'm ok although sometimes everything seems so empty and pointless. and actually, these guys don't make me happy to just be around, they remind me that death, disease and incredible sadness and lonliness is just around the corner. the word 'disorder' assumes that it is the exception to an 'order'; well i say order is just one level the human mind exists on, simply to be able to exist and below it is an expectant cemetry
"i've seen lots of socially inept people at offices go before the outgoing ones, despite obvious talent... "
as stone said above: architecture is a team sport - in the world of practice, it's not just about talent; it's also about being an active, functioning, interactive, contributing member of a team.
"art" is typically an individual endeavor; "architecture" is not
so funny, am thinking of the sequence of coming-outs that one might have to go through to cleanse one's soul:
to straigh people: i'm gay
to gay people: i'm not 'typically' gay
to non arabs: you'll identify me as arab
arabs: you'll identify me as not a typical arab
to 'normal' people: i'm a bit od i.e. disordered
to disordered, i.e. odd ,people: i'm not typically diordered since i dont subscribe to the idea of a disorder
and to top it, or bottom it if thats ur role, a guy who wants to be neither a guy nor a girl nor an inbetween.
"There is something to be said for being able to identify, communally, what sets you apart."
I can see that. But wouldn't it make more sense to identify yourself and others with the complexities? Does one (dis)order identify a person? I would hope not.
still think the player who plays a flawless game but keeps his mouth shut should be left in over the player who smiles and but fumbles the ball. certain firms value different things in their employees. i've yet to see evidence to suggest that a firm with outgoing, gregarious employees does better than a firm of quiet atypically-social employees.
"art" is typically an individual endeavor; "architecture" is not
your definition of architecture and mine differ (different and completely futile discussion)
in the sense that it identifies exactly that thing that was plagued with ambiguity and lack of normalcy...yes. identify the person in absolute, no of course not...unless the person is willing to be exclusively defined by that facet of her life. one canalso argue that a person is more exclusivey defined (by virtue of being manipulated) by an unidentified facet than by an identified one, by the subliminal than by the conscious; once a person realize, identifies, her proclivities, this becomes part of her settled self and she's ready to move on. this is base psuchology and i think even harkens to mythical origins: by knowing the true name of someone, you possess a hold over them.
After finishing the quiz, I'm certian we've done this before somewhere. Anyway, here's my results. I don't really know what they mean other than I'm a little of both. Too bad I feel normal. The way I see it, I AM normal, and everybody else is off. I guess I figure others always felt that way too.
there is some misleading things on this thread being spouted by the haves' especially in relation to austism spectrum disorder (austism, Asperger's & PDD) that is throwing this conversation out of whack... worse that much of what is being used to define Asperger's is common among those of that characteristic but is not a diagnosis
DO NOT TELL YOUR BOSS!
DO NOT TELL YOUR MATCH.COM DATE!
DO NOT TELL ANYONE!
THEY DO NOT CARE!
I've known a few people with AS who seemed to use their diagnosis as an excuse to act... hm... "self-absorbed." I've known people diagnosed with depression, social anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. with the same problem. I've also known people diagnosed with severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia who support themselves and their families, have healthy lifestyles, make educated decisions in government elections...
Any decent professional will try to help you learn to fit in. He or she will not let you get away with saying things like, "I wouldnt want empathy from you, i would just want to be understood that i would want to be alone even if I TRIED TO TALK TO YOU, I would FAIL thats why!"
I agree with architechnophilia's last comment. This thread is "out of whack." I'm surprised that I'm commenting in it.
It bears repeating that you should not tell your boss. Oh my.
It was an attempt at bringing this condition to light...
unfortuantly the people who are the ones that are self obsesses are those like Evil PLatypus, Hill&Rock ...
FOR FUCK SAKE!! DID I EVER SAY THIS WAS A PROBLEM TAHT DEMANDS SOMEONE TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO ACCOMADATE.!! IF Einstein, Da Vinci and Newton had ASPERGERS! HOW THE FUCK COULD IT BE A EMPATHY DEMANDING PROBLEM.
ITS A CLINICAL CONDITION THAT MAKES HARD FOR PEOPLE SOCIALISE, AND YEAHS I CAN SUPPORT MY FAMILY AND RELATIVES, I CAN STILL WORK YOU OBNOXIOUS IDIOT.
JESUS CHRIST!
NO I WONT TELL MY BOSS OR ANY OTHER BELL-END incase hes of the same callibre as you.
By the way, I do acknowledge that it is a genuine disorder that makes life difficult for many people.
I was concerned at some of the advice in this thread that suggested people with AS (not necessarily you), or any other mental disorder, should consider telling their employers. There is still a huge stigma against the mentally ill.
... once upon a time i was told that architects are one of the slimest people youll ever congregate with, becuase of the protocols for having the intellectual semblance used to take advantage of people.
i don't know why i'm even bothering to post, but anyway...
Aspergers Syndrome, take a moment to reread your initial post. You write:
"I generally dont like to socialise becuase to me and my aspergers self... I find it nihilistic, tedious, somewhat pretentious and a waste of time. Meeting people and having to change the way you are for the sake of impressions ...etc .. especially in europe, it seems very ponsy.
What i find disappointing is that the architecture industry seems as though it runs on such attributes."
Aspergers or not, I find it hard to believe that anyone could interpret this as anything but rude. If you are looking for sympathy, that's one thing. If you are looking for professional advice, that's another.
If your question actually is, "how much socializing do you have to do to be an architect. and work for an architects office," I would suggest going about asking it differently. You probably would have gotten a much better response if you had kept your personal opinions about an entire continent of people and group of professionals to yourself.
However, I'm not entirely convinced that finding an answer to this question is your primary concern.
Oh i understand now, its becuase of the "especially in europe" thing... well it depends on your inner-maturity, in how you would interpret that... have you considered that northern europe may have become overly materialistic, and having more of a threatening lifestyle to people with aspergers.... which is why i said that.... to interpret it as some sort of attack on europeans may have been an ignorant remark on your behalf. im not going to touch on the "if your are looking for sympathy" remark...
i think i dont need to respond to this anymore.
"However, I'm not entirely convinced that finding an answer to this question is your primary concern."
what would be my primary concern, on an internet website, based on architecture (me being a recent graduate) looking for relative context to aspergers syndrome in the architecture industry? ... what alternative concern could i possibly have... ? */refrains from bad language/*
Dude, from one Aspie to another, I think you'll find people much more accepting of you if you drop the persecution complex and broad generalizations. A couple of obvious trolls aside, most people here are pretty open-minded and well-meaning.
It's that whole "us vs. them" feedback loop I find irritating about Wrong Planet, and that's one of the reasons I rarely participate there anymore.
P.S. If you don't want to be defined by having Asperger's Syndrome, then you might want to consider changing your display name back to something other than "Aspergers Syndrome."
@xacto: just as i thought, shutted you up,.... about northern europe.. i could have said any other materialistic country like Japan, you utter bell-end.. its the society, got nothing to do with the people, your picking up on something in hope of turning into an attack, becuase you looked into this topic and hoped to get a kick out of using your slimey ways to attack someone.
LiG - yeah i know. i was attracting hate,.. "hate".
"My question is how much socializing do you have to do to be an architect. and work for an architects office."
All of the architects I've known have seemed fairly well-adjusted and social enough to have an intelligent conversation with a stranger. This probably necessary in order to effectively communicate with clients, contractors, local government, etc. Because architecture is a relatively interdisciplinary field, it would seem even more important to be able to work well with strangers than it would in a field where you can do most of your work alone or with people you already know.
You could be a very successful architect who keeps the AS in check and does the dance even though it's hard work, but it will take a lot of focus, some optimism and open-mindedness, and possibly the help of a professional therapist to learn how to do that. I don't suggest drinking more.
at first you criticized my seemingly benign suggestion because i failed to understand the intricacies of northern europe. i did not comment, because admittedly, i know nothing of the place. however, now you come back and say that your statement should read "especially in...any other materialistic country," socializing is "nihilistic, tedious, somewhat pretentious and a waste of time." so on the one hand you are arguing that i am wrong because i am ignorant of a distinct set of cultural dynamics, and on the other, i am wrong because the entire developed world is superficial. it is obvious contradictions and gross generalizations like these that make me question whether or not you have a specific question in mind, or that you just want to vent. again, either is fine, but you should be clear in what your objective is, otherwise you are bound to get comments which you will perceive to be irrelevant.
so, in an attempt to answer your explicitly stated inquiry, i will offer my own opinion. do you have to be able to communicate well in order to be successful? no, but it certainly will be very difficult if you cannot.
If you read the bloody topic, you dillusioned fool, you'd know that im not here to vent out against northern europeans... i dont need your dilluted advice. and it shouldnt take an entire essay for someone to explain that in a MATERIALISTIC driven system, Aspies will find it Harder, than being in a exotic Strange country where social contact is required less.
no i conclude your late coming stinging round of attacks are nothing but a waste of time, your argument has been ignited just but a few words on one of many of my posts in this topic, and they where. "especially in europe" ... i live there you idiot.. so i know what im talking about. So you see if you realised anything at all, there is no Generalization.
Your assumptions are blinding you of anything on this topic.
just end this, becuase you have no valid argument.
Hmmm... I hate forums.
I spend so long reading intriguing threads (and the inevitable poor/contradictory arguments) only to forget most of what I wanted to say (which, if I did remember, would be thousands of words... I know, because I took notes and have actually done this before).
To get to this topic: I'll try and only say a few things, and not comment on specific posters words, because there are far too many and it would be too difficult to have a decent discussion (i.e. people are too defensive).
As a preface: no disrespect intended, if you take some, my apologies, but don't jump on me; understand that I'm telling what I perceive/believe, so judge me, but also respect my views. Also, I am no psychologist.
I question othering a lot. Someone made a comment that it can be beneficial not to claim that we are all unique, but not disadvantaged in any way. Of course this would be a poor approach, but I definitely think we over-diagnose. I'm not sure I believe in ADD, for example. I have discussed it a great deal with my mom (who works with special needs children). Certain countries do not even recognize it. Similarly, I wonder about this whole 'autistic spectrum'. I know there are other symptoms other than detachment from the 'real' world, and social ineptitude, but really, maybe most of these people are just at different points on the 'human spectrum'.
I definitely believe that there exist 'mistakes' (sorry for the demeaning term), but I also think that we prescribe unnecessary segregation, drugs and treatment to people (especially young children before they even have a chance to develop). Maybe kids just need to learn to chill the f*$% out, instead of solving their problems with ritalin. Similarly, maybe high-functioning autistics are actually just 'normal' (or more likely actually very talented) people that could benefit from learning better interaction skills.
Maybe it would be better not to distance and defend you and your aspie self, proliferating the symptoms (i.e. you see yourself as something, and therefore become that, whether intentionally/consciously or not).
What I'm saying is that it is one thing to wonder how social one must be in an architectural setting (this is my biggest concern, as I am an absolutely terrible verbal communicator). I feel however, that you seem to be wanting to be different and have discovered an apparent syndrome (read: category) in which to anchor yourself, giving you a justification for your differences. Of course, I am not trying to tell you how these complex matters work, as I simply don't know, and I should probably refrain from being so direct/personal, but this is how I see things here. I can only hope that my comments will be taken in stride, and considered for what they are (whether they are correct or not, they are the views of someone, not unlike someone else you may encounter, so it could be useful to understand how others perceive your interactions with the world).
I'm sure this makes little sense, and I totally didn't say anything that I wanted to, probably came across far too aggressively and made no sense in general. I'm not rereading this though, and I really need to stop typing. I just hope I was able to contribute something at least partially beneficial to someone and can generate some further useful comments and thoughts.
A final reminder that I am likely one of the more accepting people you will ever meet, though I tend to take controversial stances and argue against what is accepted or PC, often in order to answer my own questions. This is toned down for me, but I don't want to come across as too ridiculous before people understand the way I argue.... I'm actually done now. No more useless rambling.
post script: on a side note, I think too much is deleted on forums. I think we are all mature enough to handle a little hate. of course if a site or whatever is providing a means for hate to be generated or supported, this is one thing, but one member's derogatory comments should not be deleted except in extreme circumstances. I think they have a right to voice their opinions, then be ripped apart for them. I never saw the offending posts, of course, but it's just annoying comments discuss something that can no longer be viewed.
What did evilplatypus say that merited being removed (banning is perhaps understandable, but why not leave the comments up?)
whats being said about "exotic" societies is just stupid, and for many reasons, starting with the usage of the word. the global culture of regulating professionalism, work, commercialism and so on in fact has given the individual far more insularity and far more of a secular spatial bubble around her than in traditionally-based/family-based (for the lack of better expressions) societies. one can be miserable, old and lonely and sitting on a bench without a soul to chat to him or care about him; what more do you want?
acts of stupidity need not be confounded with acts of social ineptitude.
then again, there's the 'traditional' buddhist/monk/meditating commune; that also endows the individual with a very different kind of space bubble.
i think that would be nice.
I has seen a lot of talking about Autism in particular Aspergers. But most of it stopped there, no real but only general advise, a lot of self diagnosed and a lot of the treads die as soon some very sociable very talkable, very general talking and often self pointing charecter, take over the tread posting all aspergers to be genious, all aspergers to be very interesting persons. And then the tread die.-- Why, becaurse deep down an aspergers know the sad truth.
Belive me all aspergers are different, as people are. And a very many aspergers are not genious just becaurse a few been proven to be, in fact aspergers can be genious if train arivals is what you look for, aswell as aspergers can be great with math, there are no gurantie, that your special interest can at all be used for anything. And fact is by dianostics are, that aspergers has average intiligense -- then with social problems and special interests people get wiser, and that is what make aspergers genious, that they focus one thing at a time.
But in all these treads I failed to find one very important issue ; what must an asperger be aware about more than everything else ?
The answer are easy, -- Psykopats is what aspergers must learn to reconise, and it is very important as no one can get more power over an aspergers, than a person who has no feeling towerds others, is smooth speaking about anything but seeem to know a lot about everything, as long as it points others attention onto himself, --- beware, I seen what a psykopat can do to aspergers, --- See aspergers often are blind to exactly that and will defend a person who specialise having power over others, persons who know exactly what to tell you.
yeah i would like to be a monk, I am good at teamwork, and team building things, and working together for a specific goal. i can co-operate, remember this isnt Ass hole syndrome.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IDLE CHIT CHAT AND SHMOOZING.. than no.
I (most or some aspies) can socialize only when doing something together that we have been sent instructions to do, thats how i bond with people.
again but when it comes to being expected,... in other words i need instructions.
I use the term "I" becuase i dont want this to affect other aspies protecting the notion that each case is different.
Quibble of Sundog & Halo : in a strange country that DOES NOT SPEAK ENGLISH, there would be less social protocols that would need to be met by aspergers people... do you understand that.
apologies for prolonging an already lengthy discussion, but i live in a country that does not need english. i am not sure you would be happy not being able to communicate.
the social issues are difficult to parse sometimes, because i am the minority english speaker, and customs are often very different. it can lead to very big problems. to overcome them i am required to be outgoing. there are so me foreign folk here who do not. they are often withdrawn and miserable as a result. many are depressed.
worse, learning to get by in this non-english speaking nation means i must talk constantly simply to improve my ability to do reglar communication type things. there is no way around it. language, living thing that it is, is not possible to learn through books. chit-chat, inane though it may be, is essential survival tool. at least that is so in this non-english and very strange country in which i live.
as to the original point...yes you can work. if you want an office, LIG's plan is a good one if you can swing it. otherwise i am not so sure how it would work. meeting new people is something my partner and i set out to do very consciously as a matter of survival in this business. and even then it is not entirely enough. building relationships and not just talking business is a very big part of what we do...
Geeks and Anti-social people...
People who can't determine the appropriate use of 'your' and 'you're' when formulating sentences should probably be banned. Then again, I should probably be banned for my stupid user name.
and people who criticize hastily typed message forum posts for grammar and spelling rather than ideas should get a life.
I have met the people who never greet you. I find it rude. But as long as you can manage to say hello, it's fine. Nobody has an obligation to speak when he's not in the mood.
LIG - To put my comment in context - I also show a lot of the characteristics, and so do some of my family. But I just don't see the benefit of getting diagnosed myself or saying to my cousin or any other member of my family to get "diagnosed". What does it change to be defined as such? And as I said, I ask that with pure ignorance - not some idealist BS.
Isn't it like car/motorcycle insurance where you turn 25 and you're magically safer than anyone younger than 25? In reality, you're the same driver before or after your 25th birthday, but for insurance its a huge deal.
Another example, on a job interview, I've mentioned I had certain characteristics about myself that were good and bad that are actually associated with characteristics of Aspergers. And I've been known to be brutally honest at interviews. But what would be the benefit of people knowing you "had aspergers" when there are probably other associations with that label that is not true?
Slart: I pretty much agree about getting the diagnosis... Even if it were easy to get the professional diagnosis and there weren't any potential ramifications for future insurance coverage (hopefully the whole insurance situation will change soon), I'm not sure it would make all that much of a difference for most for high-functioning Aspies. Other than providing me with a piece of paper that I could frame and hang on my living room wall, a professional diagnosis certainly wouldn't make a difference in my daily life.
However, if somebody is truly struggling to function on a day-to-day basis and needs some professional help, then that person should pursue whatever means are available to get a professional diagnosis and the proper treatment.
I use pretty much a similar strategy on interviews or in social situations if the need arises. I can describe certain personality traits or quirks without having to "out" myself as an Aspie and go through the whole explanation about what it means.
Slartibartfast;
There is something to be said for being able to identify, communally, what sets you apart. This helps turn the sense of alienation to one of belonging and turns doubt and self-indetermination to confidence and certitude. a coming-out so to speak. i'm not saying, though, that this is a route that is natural to all, this has certainly not been my path. on the other hand, i know two quite talented and sensitive guys who had to withdraw from the course, one who got Leukemia and had to quit, i think he's dead now, i hope he's happy somewhere else, and the other had severe depression and had to be heavily medicated; he didn't make it back to the course. i'm one of those still alive and managed to pull through, so i'm ok although sometimes everything seems so empty and pointless. and actually, these guys don't make me happy to just be around, they remind me that death, disease and incredible sadness and lonliness is just around the corner. the word 'disorder' assumes that it is the exception to an 'order'; well i say order is just one level the human mind exists on, simply to be able to exist and below it is an expectant cemetry
howard roark had aspergers.
wait... no... just an asshole.
is it sad that i have been laughing at alot of these posts? not because of the medical argument, but the mere fact that it is even an argument...
lots of famous and some good architects out there are socially inept (has anyone met julien de smidt? yikes....)
that said, i've seen lots of socially inept people at offices go before the outgoing ones, despite obvious talent...
as stone said above: architecture is a team sport - in the world of practice, it's not just about talent; it's also about being an active, functioning, interactive, contributing member of a team.
"art" is typically an individual endeavor; "architecture" is not
so funny, am thinking of the sequence of coming-outs that one might have to go through to cleanse one's soul:
to straigh people: i'm gay
to gay people: i'm not 'typically' gay
to non arabs: you'll identify me as arab
arabs: you'll identify me as not a typical arab
to 'normal' people: i'm a bit od i.e. disordered
to disordered, i.e. odd ,people: i'm not typically diordered since i dont subscribe to the idea of a disorder
and to top it, or bottom it if thats ur role, a guy who wants to be neither a guy nor a girl nor an inbetween.
try to sandwich an identity out of that.
"There is something to be said for being able to identify, communally, what sets you apart."
I can see that. But wouldn't it make more sense to identify yourself and others with the complexities? Does one (dis)order identify a person? I would hope not.
still think the player who plays a flawless game but keeps his mouth shut should be left in over the player who smiles and but fumbles the ball. certain firms value different things in their employees. i've yet to see evidence to suggest that a firm with outgoing, gregarious employees does better than a firm of quiet atypically-social employees.
"art" is typically an individual endeavor; "architecture" is not
your definition of architecture and mine differ (different and completely futile discussion)
in the sense that it identifies exactly that thing that was plagued with ambiguity and lack of normalcy...yes. identify the person in absolute, no of course not...unless the person is willing to be exclusively defined by that facet of her life. one canalso argue that a person is more exclusivey defined (by virtue of being manipulated) by an unidentified facet than by an identified one, by the subliminal than by the conscious; once a person realize, identifies, her proclivities, this becomes part of her settled self and she's ready to move on. this is base psuchology and i think even harkens to mythical origins: by knowing the true name of someone, you possess a hold over them.
After finishing the quiz, I'm certian we've done this before somewhere. Anyway, here's my results. I don't really know what they mean other than I'm a little of both. Too bad I feel normal. The way I see it, I AM normal, and everybody else is off. I guess I figure others always felt that way too.
there is some misleading things on this thread being spouted by the haves' especially in relation to austism spectrum disorder (austism, Asperger's & PDD) that is throwing this conversation out of whack... worse that much of what is being used to define Asperger's is common among those of that characteristic but is not a diagnosis
quibble
do you really talk like that in real life?
@Sarah Hamilton,
this is my result. (thanks for the graph i never noticed that site before).
if you are running firefox, right click on the image and click "View Image" to see the whole thing, becuase this forum is inferior to the task.
oh yeahs and my score was.
Your Aspie score: 173 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 33 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie.
DO NOT TELL YOUR BOSS!
DO NOT TELL YOUR MATCH.COM DATE!
DO NOT TELL ANYONE!
THEY DO NOT CARE!
I've known a few people with AS who seemed to use their diagnosis as an excuse to act... hm... "self-absorbed." I've known people diagnosed with depression, social anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. with the same problem. I've also known people diagnosed with severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia who support themselves and their families, have healthy lifestyles, make educated decisions in government elections...
Any decent professional will try to help you learn to fit in. He or she will not let you get away with saying things like, "I wouldnt want empathy from you, i would just want to be understood that i would want to be alone even if I TRIED TO TALK TO YOU, I would FAIL thats why!"
I agree with architechnophilia's last comment. This thread is "out of whack." I'm surprised that I'm commenting in it.
It bears repeating that you should not tell your boss. Oh my.
It was an attempt at bringing this condition to light...
unfortuantly the people who are the ones that are self obsesses are those like Evil PLatypus, Hill&Rock ...
FOR FUCK SAKE!! DID I EVER SAY THIS WAS A PROBLEM TAHT DEMANDS SOMEONE TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO ACCOMADATE.!! IF Einstein, Da Vinci and Newton had ASPERGERS! HOW THE FUCK COULD IT BE A EMPATHY DEMANDING PROBLEM.
ITS A CLINICAL CONDITION THAT MAKES HARD FOR PEOPLE SOCIALISE, AND YEAHS I CAN SUPPORT MY FAMILY AND RELATIVES, I CAN STILL WORK YOU OBNOXIOUS IDIOT.
JESUS CHRIST!
NO I WONT TELL MY BOSS OR ANY OTHER BELL-END incase hes of the same callibre as you.
YOU SOUND VERY CAPABLE.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, ASPERGERS TO BE SHRIVLED, SMEGAL LIKE CREATURES THAT ARE SHY TO SPEAK ?
piss of and go do some research, you ignorant prick.
* speak = talk back.
By the way, I do acknowledge that it is a genuine disorder that makes life difficult for many people.
I was concerned at some of the advice in this thread that suggested people with AS (not necessarily you), or any other mental disorder, should consider telling their employers. There is still a huge stigma against the mentally ill.
[i'm an Ancient Geek]
I suspect we should set the leeches loose on farmer.
its not an illness you idiot, its a condition ...
... once upon a time i was told that architects are one of the slimest people youll ever congregate with, becuase of the protocols for having the intellectual semblance used to take advantage of people.
what a bunch of arse holes, really.
I'm sorry. There is still a huge stigma against the mentally conditioned.
Well its your own perspective on what a mental condition actually is. Trouble is, there is only one side of the fence that are willing to co-operate.
i don't know why i'm even bothering to post, but anyway...
Aspergers Syndrome, take a moment to reread your initial post. You write:
"I generally dont like to socialise becuase to me and my aspergers self... I find it nihilistic, tedious, somewhat pretentious and a waste of time. Meeting people and having to change the way you are for the sake of impressions ...etc .. especially in europe, it seems very ponsy.
What i find disappointing is that the architecture industry seems as though it runs on such attributes."
Aspergers or not, I find it hard to believe that anyone could interpret this as anything but rude. If you are looking for sympathy, that's one thing. If you are looking for professional advice, that's another.
If your question actually is, "how much socializing do you have to do to be an architect. and work for an architects office," I would suggest going about asking it differently. You probably would have gotten a much better response if you had kept your personal opinions about an entire continent of people and group of professionals to yourself.
However, I'm not entirely convinced that finding an answer to this question is your primary concern.
Oh i understand now, its becuase of the "especially in europe" thing... well it depends on your inner-maturity, in how you would interpret that... have you considered that northern europe may have become overly materialistic, and having more of a threatening lifestyle to people with aspergers.... which is why i said that.... to interpret it as some sort of attack on europeans may have been an ignorant remark on your behalf. im not going to touch on the "if your are looking for sympathy" remark...
i think i dont need to respond to this anymore.
"However, I'm not entirely convinced that finding an answer to this question is your primary concern."
what would be my primary concern, on an internet website, based on architecture (me being a recent graduate) looking for relative context to aspergers syndrome in the architecture industry? ... what alternative concern could i possibly have... ? */refrains from bad language/*
I got some of the good text at the beginning of this post, i dont think i need anything else, including late comers coming to have a poke.
admins can close this topic
Dude, from one Aspie to another, I think you'll find people much more accepting of you if you drop the persecution complex and broad generalizations. A couple of obvious trolls aside, most people here are pretty open-minded and well-meaning.
It's that whole "us vs. them" feedback loop I find irritating about Wrong Planet, and that's one of the reasons I rarely participate there anymore.
P.S. If you don't want to be defined by having Asperger's Syndrome, then you might want to consider changing your display name back to something other than "Aspergers Syndrome."
lol...i'll let one of the mature and enlightened northern europeans respond...good luck with the career/life.
(this thread reminds me of that old saying about arguing on the internet)
@xacto: just as i thought, shutted you up,.... about northern europe.. i could have said any other materialistic country like Japan, you utter bell-end.. its the society, got nothing to do with the people, your picking up on something in hope of turning into an attack, becuase you looked into this topic and hoped to get a kick out of using your slimey ways to attack someone.
LiG - yeah i know. i was attracting hate,.. "hate".
ill change my username, wont mention AS.
"My question is how much socializing do you have to do to be an architect. and work for an architects office."
All of the architects I've known have seemed fairly well-adjusted and social enough to have an intelligent conversation with a stranger. This probably necessary in order to effectively communicate with clients, contractors, local government, etc. Because architecture is a relatively interdisciplinary field, it would seem even more important to be able to work well with strangers than it would in a field where you can do most of your work alone or with people you already know.
You could be a very successful architect who keeps the AS in check and does the dance even though it's hard work, but it will take a lot of focus, some optimism and open-mindedness, and possibly the help of a professional therapist to learn how to do that. I don't suggest drinking more.
Well, so much for my user name....
to the commenter formerly known as aspergers:
at first you criticized my seemingly benign suggestion because i failed to understand the intricacies of northern europe. i did not comment, because admittedly, i know nothing of the place. however, now you come back and say that your statement should read "especially in...any other materialistic country," socializing is "nihilistic, tedious, somewhat pretentious and a waste of time." so on the one hand you are arguing that i am wrong because i am ignorant of a distinct set of cultural dynamics, and on the other, i am wrong because the entire developed world is superficial. it is obvious contradictions and gross generalizations like these that make me question whether or not you have a specific question in mind, or that you just want to vent. again, either is fine, but you should be clear in what your objective is, otherwise you are bound to get comments which you will perceive to be irrelevant.
so, in an attempt to answer your explicitly stated inquiry, i will offer my own opinion. do you have to be able to communicate well in order to be successful? no, but it certainly will be very difficult if you cannot.
If you read the bloody topic, you dillusioned fool, you'd know that im not here to vent out against northern europeans... i dont need your dilluted advice. and it shouldnt take an entire essay for someone to explain that in a MATERIALISTIC driven system, Aspies will find it Harder, than being in a exotic Strange country where social contact is required less.
no i conclude your late coming stinging round of attacks are nothing but a waste of time, your argument has been ignited just but a few words on one of many of my posts in this topic, and they where. "especially in europe" ... i live there you idiot.. so i know what im talking about. So you see if you realised anything at all, there is no Generalization.
Your assumptions are blinding you of anything on this topic.
just end this, becuase you have no valid argument.
lolz!1!
Hmmm... I hate forums.
I spend so long reading intriguing threads (and the inevitable poor/contradictory arguments) only to forget most of what I wanted to say (which, if I did remember, would be thousands of words... I know, because I took notes and have actually done this before).
To get to this topic: I'll try and only say a few things, and not comment on specific posters words, because there are far too many and it would be too difficult to have a decent discussion (i.e. people are too defensive).
As a preface: no disrespect intended, if you take some, my apologies, but don't jump on me; understand that I'm telling what I perceive/believe, so judge me, but also respect my views. Also, I am no psychologist.
I question othering a lot. Someone made a comment that it can be beneficial not to claim that we are all unique, but not disadvantaged in any way. Of course this would be a poor approach, but I definitely think we over-diagnose. I'm not sure I believe in ADD, for example. I have discussed it a great deal with my mom (who works with special needs children). Certain countries do not even recognize it. Similarly, I wonder about this whole 'autistic spectrum'. I know there are other symptoms other than detachment from the 'real' world, and social ineptitude, but really, maybe most of these people are just at different points on the 'human spectrum'.
I definitely believe that there exist 'mistakes' (sorry for the demeaning term), but I also think that we prescribe unnecessary segregation, drugs and treatment to people (especially young children before they even have a chance to develop). Maybe kids just need to learn to chill the f*$% out, instead of solving their problems with ritalin. Similarly, maybe high-functioning autistics are actually just 'normal' (or more likely actually very talented) people that could benefit from learning better interaction skills.
Maybe it would be better not to distance and defend you and your aspie self, proliferating the symptoms (i.e. you see yourself as something, and therefore become that, whether intentionally/consciously or not).
What I'm saying is that it is one thing to wonder how social one must be in an architectural setting (this is my biggest concern, as I am an absolutely terrible verbal communicator). I feel however, that you seem to be wanting to be different and have discovered an apparent syndrome (read: category) in which to anchor yourself, giving you a justification for your differences. Of course, I am not trying to tell you how these complex matters work, as I simply don't know, and I should probably refrain from being so direct/personal, but this is how I see things here. I can only hope that my comments will be taken in stride, and considered for what they are (whether they are correct or not, they are the views of someone, not unlike someone else you may encounter, so it could be useful to understand how others perceive your interactions with the world).
I'm sure this makes little sense, and I totally didn't say anything that I wanted to, probably came across far too aggressively and made no sense in general. I'm not rereading this though, and I really need to stop typing. I just hope I was able to contribute something at least partially beneficial to someone and can generate some further useful comments and thoughts.
A final reminder that I am likely one of the more accepting people you will ever meet, though I tend to take controversial stances and argue against what is accepted or PC, often in order to answer my own questions. This is toned down for me, but I don't want to come across as too ridiculous before people understand the way I argue.... I'm actually done now. No more useless rambling.
post script: on a side note, I think too much is deleted on forums. I think we are all mature enough to handle a little hate. of course if a site or whatever is providing a means for hate to be generated or supported, this is one thing, but one member's derogatory comments should not be deleted except in extreme circumstances. I think they have a right to voice their opinions, then be ripped apart for them. I never saw the offending posts, of course, but it's just annoying comments discuss something that can no longer be viewed.
What did evilplatypus say that merited being removed (banning is perhaps understandable, but why not leave the comments up?)
whats being said about "exotic" societies is just stupid, and for many reasons, starting with the usage of the word. the global culture of regulating professionalism, work, commercialism and so on in fact has given the individual far more insularity and far more of a secular spatial bubble around her than in traditionally-based/family-based (for the lack of better expressions) societies. one can be miserable, old and lonely and sitting on a bench without a soul to chat to him or care about him; what more do you want?
acts of stupidity need not be confounded with acts of social ineptitude.
then again, there's the 'traditional' buddhist/monk/meditating commune; that also endows the individual with a very different kind of space bubble.
i think that would be nice.
"one can be miserable, old and lonely and sitting on a bench without a soul to chat to"
the only problem with your argument is that you have the wronge perception of what aspergers is.
I has seen a lot of talking about Autism in particular Aspergers. But most of it stopped there, no real but only general advise, a lot of self diagnosed and a lot of the treads die as soon some very sociable very talkable, very general talking and often self pointing charecter, take over the tread posting all aspergers to be genious, all aspergers to be very interesting persons. And then the tread die.-- Why, becaurse deep down an aspergers know the sad truth.
Belive me all aspergers are different, as people are. And a very many aspergers are not genious just becaurse a few been proven to be, in fact aspergers can be genious if train arivals is what you look for, aswell as aspergers can be great with math, there are no gurantie, that your special interest can at all be used for anything. And fact is by dianostics are, that aspergers has average intiligense -- then with social problems and special interests people get wiser, and that is what make aspergers genious, that they focus one thing at a time.
But in all these treads I failed to find one very important issue ; what must an asperger be aware about more than everything else ?
The answer are easy, -- Psykopats is what aspergers must learn to reconise, and it is very important as no one can get more power over an aspergers, than a person who has no feeling towerds others, is smooth speaking about anything but seeem to know a lot about everything, as long as it points others attention onto himself, --- beware, I seen what a psykopat can do to aspergers, --- See aspergers often are blind to exactly that and will defend a person who specialise having power over others, persons who know exactly what to tell you.
yeah i would like to be a monk, I am good at teamwork, and team building things, and working together for a specific goal. i can co-operate, remember this isnt Ass hole syndrome.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IDLE CHIT CHAT AND SHMOOZING.. than no.
I (most or some aspies) can socialize only when doing something together that we have been sent instructions to do, thats how i bond with people.
again but when it comes to being expected,... in other words i need instructions.
I use the term "I" becuase i dont want this to affect other aspies protecting the notion that each case is different.
Quibble of Sundog & Halo : in a strange country that DOES NOT SPEAK ENGLISH, there would be less social protocols that would need to be met by aspergers people... do you understand that.
apologies for prolonging an already lengthy discussion, but i live in a country that does not need english. i am not sure you would be happy not being able to communicate.
the social issues are difficult to parse sometimes, because i am the minority english speaker, and customs are often very different. it can lead to very big problems. to overcome them i am required to be outgoing. there are so me foreign folk here who do not. they are often withdrawn and miserable as a result. many are depressed.
worse, learning to get by in this non-english speaking nation means i must talk constantly simply to improve my ability to do reglar communication type things. there is no way around it. language, living thing that it is, is not possible to learn through books. chit-chat, inane though it may be, is essential survival tool. at least that is so in this non-english and very strange country in which i live.
as to the original point...yes you can work. if you want an office, LIG's plan is a good one if you can swing it. otherwise i am not so sure how it would work. meeting new people is something my partner and i set out to do very consciously as a matter of survival in this business. and even then it is not entirely enough. building relationships and not just talking business is a very big part of what we do...
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