sharpie

op, lets see some examples of indesigners "sketching" and i can offer up comments. are you guys using stylus and pads?

This is my second post on Archinect, how do I post an actual image in a thread? Or is the easiest way around this to simply provide a link to an image?

To answer your question, most iDers are using a Cintiq or TabletPC with a stylus to sketch out our concepts.

stereotypical i know... but i dont go anywhere w/o a moleskin & micron.

ah, i love stereotypes. moleskine all the way

i dunno, sketching seems more organic to me. i'd hate to need an outlet just to sketch...i do like the idea of using a tablet or a wacom though.

I work in a moleskine and rock the cintiq with Painter and Photoshop (though mostly only for final renders/texture painting)

I've never seen anyone EFFECTIVELY sketch on a computer. And not to be antagonistic, but regarding the time and money issue....how much trace paper & pens/pencils would it take before they became more expensive than the hardware and software required to "sketch" on a computer?

That said, there is a lot of, not what I would call sketching, but more of quick 3d trash modeling, where people are quickly massing the intended objects and orbiting around them as they design....for better or worse...

analog all the way. Nothing on a computer can top the practice of putting pencil/pen to paper. I would go as far as saying that the use of digital design tools are not helping us make better architecture. Look at all the shitty blobs going up around the world - these couldn't have been designed and built without computers and are worse because of it. Draw by hand!

heh heh this is interesting

I sketch in a moleskin (sounds so elitist) but I don't often write, rather I type

i've tried sketching on a computer using a tablet...but have pretty much given up cause i found it really difficult to get a "feel" for it. also, it seemed that i kept making movements that were inadvertently opening/closing programs or windows, really annoying stuff like that. that's definitely one skill that i didn't have the patience to master.

god. please. help. them. understand. it's. the. TOOL. using. it. not. the. tool. being. used. that. is. the. problem.

Nobody in here sketches on big rolls of trace? Nobody? I'm sorry just if i was limited to a tiny moleskine for ALL my sketching I would go mad.

shoot I'll sketch on anything [insert dirty joke here]

i sketch on| trace/bumwad/onion skin/vellum/mylar/butcher paper/napkins/playbills/concert flyers/magazines/moleskine/crappy pads from vendors/wood/arm/hand/gyp/xrays/etc/

/tape/post-its/bond/watercolor/news print/

optimistic, I hear where you're coming from. I have a degree in ID and I'm currently doing my M.Arch....

Over the past couple of years since returning to school, I have lost just about all skill with 3D/CAD programs.... and I LOVE IT. There are a million and one reasons, but that's up for you to decide. ID is (basically) about the object, whereas I think you'll find that architecture, and architectural education, encompasses so much territory as to be kind of difficult to nail down at times. I love it, and this is why.

You should be experimenting and practicing with BOTH, to decide how you like to work. Personally, I like drawing with my hand because it's slower, it gives me time to THINK about what I'm doing (in terms of actual working speed, you're always going to be playing catch-up to the computer). There's something to be said about a direct connection between eye/hand/mind that you just don't get with digital technologies. Drawing by hand is more direct and allows for accidents and improvisation - my two biggest qualms about the computer: you have to know WHAT you're doing before you do it. Not so with sketching or drawing with your hand/body.

If you're going back to school, that's the time to practice, think, and figure it out for yourself. I find myself intensely fascinated with architectural representation.

digital is a must for all visual art industry...

aspect, that's exactly the crux of the problem. If you believe architecture is a purely visual 'industry,' I feel sorry for you and the poor people who have to inhabit your buildings. I don't know about you, but my entire BODY, with all its senses, experiences architecture.

If you want to be the next Neil Denari, go for it. Go tell Glenn Murcutt that digital is a must.

You make your own path in this field. I firmly believe that. But I think a responsible designer is a critical one, and QUESTIONS these things.

i like the computer. i use it often. but there's no replacement for Bravo felt tip on trace paper. mmm... i love it.

aspect, dinosaurs didn't die through failure to evolve. they were caught in a natural disaster. evolution has no right or wrong, its more of a blind chance in the right place at the right time sort of process.

the more options available to you the better equipped a person is to tackle unkown situations and cetera. so do it all and be ready to do something else when and if...

jump> i agree... the world evolve at a very vast pace than ever b4, there are millions more things for us architect to catch up with than our former comer... so embrace knowledge and not to refuse.

change doesn't equal evolution though and anyway evolution only happens in hindsight.

personally i think is better to take it all on, from hand drawing to 3d and refrain from judging. deciding to do only hand drawing is perfectly fine. opposite is equally true.

but really is more impt to learn the other shit like how to design, (and balance budgets, negotiate contracts). the tools are barely even impt - whether you think architecture is visual art or spatial discipline or something completely different.

I use trace (get it? although that's not really where it came from) to sketch on and a sketch book.

Gonna get myself a wacom soon, though, but that will be for photo edits.

i sketch all details on 8.5 x 11 so it can be scanned and distributed. (with the moleskin i find myself too limited by the size of the sketchbook, and it is not a standard size that can be distributed easily.)

i use sketch-up for 3d axonometric sketches or anything that needs a three dimensional explanation.

these polemical either/or discussions i find bizarre.

Once during a medical project meeting I sketched out a plan revision on a big length of paper from an exam table paper roll, much to the amusement of the docs.

Does anyone have any computer pad sketches they'd care to share? I've never used them and am interested...

Here's an example of some industrial design digital sketching done with the aid of Autodesk Sketchbook Pro and a Wacom Cintiq from the [url=http://www.idsketching.com/]idsketching.com website.







These guys at idsketching.com use both sketching methods, analog and digital, to lay down their thoughts.

Here are some examples of architectural digital sketches I found on the web.





Using a Cintiq or TabletPC with a stylus (digitizer pen) allows you to use your hand to sketch out your thoughts, just as if you were using a pencil, pen, marker, etc... to lay down your thoughts on paper. The only difference is the software on the computer allows you to throw in some color for shading and added values to make your illustration pop out of your canvas. The TabletPC is just as mobile as a sketchbook, so you don't have to worry about plugging it in to an electrical outlet, that is until the battery needs charging of course.

I'm not saying digital is the way to go. All I'm saying is digital has its advantages. I use both sketching methods to lay down my thoughts.

Sorry about that, here is the correct link for idsketching.com

What I find odd about the newer 3D tools is that they are attempting to digitally recreate the LOOK of an analog process (ie pencil, markers, etc.) I have seen some beautiful images done this way, but it strikes me as a backward and fake way to go about it. It's all about the LOOK, and that's where it stops. So it serves a purpose, I'm just not convinced it's the best tool for that particular job.

Let pencils and markers be messy. Computers do straight lines and complex geometry well. When the lines start to blur, that's when it gets interesting - but those examples are few and far between. But I also think it's worth pursuing critically.

I don't know what I'm saying, except that you should do what you want to do, but be critical and don't believe the hype. No single tool is going to work in every circumstance, for every job. Whether or not I ever use BIM software is irrelevant, but I think it's the next logical step, at least for commercial architecture. But then that's not about representation, and that's another argument (we've been having) altogether.

G-D I hope this makes sense. End of term and all that.

I agree Dustin. When I was in school, I understood why we learned hand-drafting, but I never really used it once I started using CAD/BIM. The "sketch" look done in computer is completely backwards and I don't see the value in it.

I don't think there is a standard for what tool to use for drawing or sketching, only personal taste. I like to sketch on paper with felt-tip pen. I like the feel of it. The tangibility, and the fact that every pen and paper has distinct characteristics - the way the ink bleeds, the texture and the resistance of the paper. I don't want to let the media supercede the subject of the content, but sometimes it helps portray a certain character that you couldn't get otherwise.

Dustin, the software programs Sketchbook Pro, Painter, and Photoshop are not 3d tools like AutoCad, Form-Z, and Rhino, they are 2d tools just like a pencil and paper where you physically sketch out your thoughts to make them appear like they're in perspective or 3d. Unless you're familiar and really know how to utilize these 2d tools to clean up your illustrations, they will be messy like pencil, pen, marker, watercolor, or whatever medium you choose.

i vote for hand sketching.

Then you'd be voting for both.

optimistic, I am familiar with those programs, I just wasn't clear about that I guess.

I think that until you really start pushing the limits (your own limits, and that of the media you're using), it might be difficult to understand that there really is a world of difference between hand drawing and digital drawing, even if you want to call them both 'hand sketching.'

There's a relationship between the physical and material aspects of hand drawing that simply doesn't exist in the digital realm. I'm not talking about the finished product (although it's also true in that case), but more about the process itself.

You can't scratch digital. You can't tear it. You can't stamp it. In other words, you can't engage a computer monitor or digital print as a spatial condition itself - by definition, digital is flat and thus misses the chance to engage our other senses.

Digital doesn't smell, fade, or acquire a patina over time. Approaching architecture as a visual (digital) medium, one runs the risk of glossing over the very real fact that in the flesh, materials do have properties that weather and age, etc. We understand this when we draw by hand: press too hard on the paper, and that scratch or crease becomes permanent. Everything is un-doable in the digital realm, but not so in the real, built world. This divorcing of our senses from architecture, as happens when designed through digital media, is starting to frighten me as I come to better understand it.

Just my own two cents.

Call me old fashioned but I'll vote for analog.I'll actually start practicing sketching and try to make a portfolio out of it. I'll also be learning some software programs such as Illustrator in my spare time but I'll only use them for the final production. I like the feeling of holding a pen and paper.I want to be able sketch everywhere whenever the inspiration strikes me..it could be a paper, a piece of cloth or a napkin but I hate the idea of carrying my laptop and having to plugging it in whenever I need to produce something. I find analog sketching special and very unique to the individual, it has character whereas computer "sketching" all looks the same.

i do a lot of scripting in processing and trash modeling in rhino but i am a closet sketch maniac, filling up a thin moleskin every few weeks.

A sketchbook is really useful for figuring out individual ideas clearly. if one cant work out an idea in a few sketches, it is probably not an idea in the first place.

if someone finds a tablet as facile, or watercolors, or charcoal, or collage, or trash modeling, im all for it.

It is mostly about bandwidth, economy of information production, The medium can certainly be inherently important though--each has its own ineluctable modality. Pens, pencils, trace, moleskins and digital tablets, however, have a lot of overlap as far as thinking is concerned and unless one is pushing the limits of the medium preference is merely fetishization.

not a fan of moleskines, i like my wacom intuos and handbook sketch journals.

i sketch on cad or revit, then i print it out and sketch over it, then i implement the sketches i did on the computer, then i print again and trace over it, then implement on computer, then i look at it in 3d, then go back to 2d, print, retrace, resketch then, repeat, repeat, repeat, then 3d, repeat, repeat, repeat then sections, repeat, repeat, repeat...what am i?

Don't forget to also rinse niro..

intuition is honest and time based. quickness is key. tech has not yet met the physicality of conventional drawing

To the original comment of the discussion............I sketch like a mad man on the train (I live in NYC). I sketch for paintings, graphics for t-shirts, architectural projects, details, etc. You can always scan in sketches and work from there if I want to turn it into something else. I experiment with a tablet, but I don't think that you can call that sketching. The natural movement of your hand on paper is naturally different than using a piece of plastic that leaves no mark on the surface that you are marking. It's one step away. I think that you can make computer graphics look more "natural" with these programs, hardware, etc, but why not just create something with your hand? It's like paying a ton of money for new clothes that look old. Why not just keep your clothes around until they are "worn"?

As I digress, I think that you can make anything look interesting if you know how to use it. My experience in architecture does not require sketching, but it helps me think, experiment and explore ideas in an informal way that is helpful to me. Screw industry standards and do what helps your design process.

this is not even a question... hand sketch. pencil on bumwad (trace).

The proffessors will rip you apart in reviews if you try to show them digital sketches. They would probably themselves go grab bumwad, hold it over your drawings and sketch themselves just to make a point. Then hand you a piece of paper with almost nothing on it and tell you that is better than what you worked on for alot longer than 30 seconds.

this is not even a question... hand sketch. pencil on bumwad (trace).

The proffessors will rip you apart in reviews if you try to show them digital sketches. They would probably themselves go grab bumwad, hold it over your drawings and sketch themselves just to make a point. Then hand you a piece of paper with almost nothing on it and tell you that is better than what you worked on for alot longer than 30 seconds.

do whatever you feel. there is no right or wrong way. some people are obviously threatened by things they cant do themselves.

I draw really terrifying and perverse things...

Like I could start out drawing a toaster and end up with something eerily similar to Picasso's Massacre in Korea.

I have a pretty distinct and borderline schizophrenic drawing style. So, I really do not like to draw.

I've been encouraged to draw but I'm not sure how many more sketches of unicorns raping trutles while gutting a bear with its horn while strippers dance in the background while gravy is being poured on them out of a giant gravyboat held by a tiny zombie well-hung leprechaun.