No, some are racist, some are misogynistic, and some are gun nuts. Not all are all three.
I would say, however, that everyone on the list are "selfish plutocratic fear-mongering snarlers." But this is all just my opinion, backed up by a large majority of Americans.
I vehemently disagree with anyone who says that Democrats and Republicans are the same thing. We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans. We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans.
We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats. We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats.
if obama hadn't have been the candidate its a good chance the republicans could have won the white house. for example, b.o. won indianastan but, carried only five counties. i don't think any other dem would have one more than two counties. i am sure, without evidence or the desire to check, that some other states had similar situations. so, the death pronouncement of the republican party is premature. for example, on family feud the category was famous joe's. and joe the plumber finished ahead of joe biden.
I agree, farwest -- take for examle that one famous democrat guy that invented the internet. I sure didn't see any republicans inventing the internet, that's for sure!
"I vehemently disagree with anyone who says that Democrats and Republicans are the same thing. We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans. We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans.
We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats. We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats."
Seriously - civil rights? What, the southern dixiecrats surpressing blacks wasnt part of the party? You give no credit to Ike(R) who actualy kicked off the civil rights movement? or what about that Lincoln guy?
Iraq? The war your democrats voted for and just may yet prove to be worth it despite you pansies wanting to bury your heads in the sand. Human rights are cool until you have to send troops to enforce them. Should we bring up SE Asia? Or every othe war besides the current- all started by democrats?
Global warming? Check Bush's record on eco-policies and it's surprisingly good, but since Kieth Olberman didnt tell you that you prob dont know. Believe it or not but Republicans actualy like the environment to, and are less likely to own an SUV ( Edwards owns 3). Last I checked Saudi Oil ministers werent donating to Bush's campaign and library unlike a certain other guys.
My point here is that the Democratic zombie army is every bit as narrow minded as their hill billy cousins on the right. They just think they are smarter than everyone else, and will tell you that - thats the only difference. Now like good zombies go find all the facts and get back to prove me wrong so you can feel good about advancing "the cause"
...KURT>>>they are incorrigible misogynists, just because they're women, doesn't mean they don't hate women. i've met a lot of self hating men, shit they ran the WH from 2002-2008.
1. Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet, no matter what Rush Limbaugh says. His exact quote was:
"But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."
2. Most of the old Dixiecrats are today's Republicans. When Lyndon Johnson signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, he put down his pen and told an aide, "We have lost the South for a generation." And he was right.
3. Lincoln and Eisenhower would both be thrown out of today's Republican Party for being too liberal. (Ike also started building the Interstate Highway System, and the top marginal tax rate during his administration was over 90%. Sounds downright socialist if you ask me.)
Farwest1...you and I have had a few disagreements in the past. It's no surprise we disagree on this also.
"We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans."
For your info:
-Democrats had 29 Ayes and 21 Nays in the senate, authorizing the war in Iraq.
-Democrats had 82 Ayes and 126 nays in the H of Reps. And while this would not be enough to authorize the war, 40% of democrats approving the measure is by no means progressive.
"We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans."
Let's wait and see how this unfolds. I'll bet there was bipartisan support for Bush's use of torture. Let's put a wager on it.
"We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats."
Does Obama support Gay marriage? What about gay civil rights?
"We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats."
You're right. This is where democrats are actually more progressive than republicans.
eh, i'll fight the war in front of me, not the war behind me. Republicans have been co-opted by the religious, cultural, Christian Conservatives. so, i'll take my legally owned ak-47 and go to church on Sunday and practice me some Darwinism.
how about this; i'll go to an anti-abortion rally in front of Planned Parenthood clinic and firebomb both groups? all while shouting; bababooey, bababooey?!
Whatever anyone says, the Iraq war was invented by a Republican administration.
And a Democratic administration created civil rights, social security, etc.
My point is not that all Republicans are bad, only that most of the elements that represent progressive, forward-looking values come from the Democrats.
I'll repeat this again, because it's worth repeating:
"The Republican party has been taken over by its ugliest wing: the selfish plutocratic fear-mongering snarlers. Moderates have no voice, and are actively mocked by the "base" of the party."
I actually like a lot of Republicans of the moderate variety. It's those paleo-conservatives on the hard right who know no compromise that I really dislike.
The party of negativity, obstructionism, no ideas, and pessimism. If the Republicans came up with just ONE idea that didn't have to do with vague threats of terrorism (or torture) I might be more inclined to like them.
But scanning the list of individuals I mentioned earlier, these are venal, unpleasant, paranoid people who actually believe that socialism is still something we're fighting against. (Or rather, some weird hybrid of socialism-fascism-terrorism-islamism, all of which is somehow miraculously ascribed to Obama. These are a bunch of infantile name callers, when it comes down to it.)
I wish there were still a loyal opposition in this country. But instead we have an ineffectual, inept and bitter opposition.
"I actually like a lot of Republicans of the moderate variety. It's those paleo-conservatives on the hard right who know no compromise that I really dislike."
KURT, you're pretty new aren't you? beta's been fake threatening people to get a rise out of them for a while. The difference, of course, is that the people who actually DO listen to Glenn Beck and think their guns are going to get taken away have killed how many cops since January? 10? Oakland, Pittsburgh, and Florida, and counting? Because they think "Obama is going to take their guns away." So, does that put you in the cop-killers camp, or what?
"Its not social engineering, its helping those who need the most help"
No its not. Its called buying votes and creating a permanent underclass.
100 years of it and folks are still poor. In fact in the poorest areas, they are beyond poor - they are 5th generation welfare rollers with absolutely no social structure unlike their sweatshop cousins 100 years ago. People need jobs and markets to participate beyond the drug markets. Social safety nets are good and needed but when they become a trap, and used for vote farming, the whole system needs to be tossed out.
There is a simple dam fix to the plight of the democratic innercity voting block, which is killed by the same party - low cost manufacturing jobs.
Dog Whistle? Is it it racist to say the democratic party keeps blacks in their place rather than helping them find employment in the inner cities and industrial towns? Than yes - guilty as charged. As someone who has worked on inner city projects like low income area comunity centers, the leadership is blatantly pro-keeping people poor while providing no real attempt to actually fix the underlying cancer - no jobs. Just token projects, like community centers.
The more I read about Arlen Specter, the more I like the guy. He's actually honest, came out and said "Look, I can't win as a Republican" and it's absolutely refreshing. Of course, he supported the Iraq war, but then again, so did some Democrats (cough cough Hillary cough cough)
I dont see the Democrats going to great pains to register rural farm hands and Appalachian whites? So now calling the urban poor, who are statistically black, black - is racist? I love your logic.
the era of supply side economics roughly 1982-2002 and roughly correlating with Greenspan's tenure shows a negatively sloping unemployment trend. link
Is it possible that the inner cities were sold out in a period of general prosperity? Very likely. There's no reason a nation like ours cant maintain home grown manufacturing unless there is presure to not do so. Maybe its foreign policy - take our jobs and support us in return. Maybe its regulation. Maybe its greed. Could be labor strife. But it's something and there should be outrage.
I conceed the term "welfare roller" is wrong. Its not a racist attack, but I could see where the term might be loaded. But the gist of it is that a vast majority of inner city residents are indeed receiving section 8, welfare or other financial aid and I think theres more than "helping the poor" involved.
If I may turn things on this thread on their head a bit, but speaking of racism.....
One beef I have with LEFT-wing commentators is their tendency to jump on anyone who starts talking about immigration as "racist". I find it strange when I agree with Fox News people who say "maybe we should actually control our border a bit better" but uh, there's a possible pandemic on the horizon here. I don't think it's a bad idea to start enforcing our laws, for crying out loud. Is that somehow racist? The border is way too porous and if terrorists had half a brain, they would be trying to get in through Mexico. Of course, they might be getting the idea now....
"The difference, of course, is that the people who actually DO listen to Glenn Beck and think their guns are going to get taken away have killed how many cops since January? 10? "
Glen Beck listeners equal cop killers? What an insane "connection". So far it sounds like you and Beta have a lot in common, WonderK.
WonderK -- I'd always take issue with what looks like a defense of what Beta has said here.
At the same time, i think i clearly misunderstood what you were saying your example i quoted above -- so, sorry on that second part -- up late... ya know. :-)
Evil,
That quote of mine you took seems to imply that i said, and intended to say, 'give inner city poor jobs so that they continue to vote democrat'. I never said that, and in fact i completely agree with you that localy, not enough is done to empower inner city poor to help themselves...
What i dont get is how putting an emphasis on bringing jobs back to the inner city is any more or less a 'social engineering' project that just increasing welfare rolls (the stereotypical democrat platform)?
My point is, this is a severely underprivileged section of the population. For many, through no fault of their own. There is no pulling of oneself up by the boot straps in such situations. The deck is clearly stacked so intensely against them, it is a noteworthy achievement when someone actually makes it out and does something meaningful... its the stuff of newspaper articles and movies... that is how rare its become. Now, whether this has to do with democractic vote harvesting or not, the situation exists, and i dont see any rational reason that it shouldnt be a core value and goal of ANY government to do everything possible to alleviate it. So, having said all this, i guess i dont really care... social engineering or not, the situation has to improve by any means neccessary.
And for those of you who like to keep altruism and paternalistic tendency out of government, 'poverty abatement through social engineering' has the potential to single handedly turn the economy around. Imagine if we could put even 1/2 of our inner city unemployed into a job... imagine the economic impact...
The more I read about Arlen Specter, the more I like the guy. He's actually honest, came out and said "Look, I can't win as a Republican" and it's absolutely refreshing.
Really, don't make the guy into a hero. He did nothing hard by defecting - it was the easy way out of a situation. If the guy had any backbone he would have worked with his party for postive change, etc.
I mean, I can't blame the guy for going Democrat - but moves like that won't make me respect you.
This is a minor gripe, but it's an indicator of the myriad ways in which the Republican party has been infantile in its attacks on the Democratic party:
Instead of saying "the Democratic party" Republicans (and lletdownl and a few others here) say "the Democrat party." That's an incorrect usage, and it's attempting to somehow imply that Democrats are not democratic.
If the Republican party would grow up, and stop using such infantile tactics, they might find themselves once again a national force, instead of a Southern good ol' boy party—running on a platform of "guns, no homos, and creationism."
The Implosion of the Republican Party (hang on while I get some popcorn...)
nice gotcha, ...kurt.... but even a woman can be a misogynist.
You do seem like you'd be happier avoiding that list and instead drinking with a couple dead guys, Gin.
Do I understand you correctly then, farwest? Are you saying everyone on that list is a "racist, misogynistic, gun nut" ?
No, some are racist, some are misogynistic, and some are gun nuts. Not all are all three.
I would say, however, that everyone on the list are "selfish plutocratic fear-mongering snarlers." But this is all just my opinion, backed up by a large majority of Americans.
Maybe it would be more clear if you could tell us which on the list are racist, which are misogynists, and which are gun nuts.
Ha! Yes, you're right. But making a list like that would make me feel a little too much like Joseph McCarthy. I prefer to speak in generalities.
Democrats. Republicans. They're the same thing. Except one's an elephant, the other a jack ass.
I vehemently disagree with anyone who says that Democrats and Republicans are the same thing. We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans. We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans.
We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats. We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats.
etc. etc. etc.
if obama hadn't have been the candidate its a good chance the republicans could have won the white house. for example, b.o. won indianastan but, carried only five counties. i don't think any other dem would have one more than two counties. i am sure, without evidence or the desire to check, that some other states had similar situations. so, the death pronouncement of the republican party is premature. for example, on family feud the category was famous joe's. and joe the plumber finished ahead of joe biden.
I agree, farwest -- take for examle that one famous democrat guy that invented the internet. I sure didn't see any republicans inventing the internet, that's for sure!
"I vehemently disagree with anyone who says that Democrats and Republicans are the same thing. We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans. We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans.
We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats. We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats."
Seriously - civil rights? What, the southern dixiecrats surpressing blacks wasnt part of the party? You give no credit to Ike(R) who actualy kicked off the civil rights movement? or what about that Lincoln guy?
Iraq? The war your democrats voted for and just may yet prove to be worth it despite you pansies wanting to bury your heads in the sand. Human rights are cool until you have to send troops to enforce them. Should we bring up SE Asia? Or every othe war besides the current- all started by democrats?
Global warming? Check Bush's record on eco-policies and it's surprisingly good, but since Kieth Olberman didnt tell you that you prob dont know. Believe it or not but Republicans actualy like the environment to, and are less likely to own an SUV ( Edwards owns 3). Last I checked Saudi Oil ministers werent donating to Bush's campaign and library unlike a certain other guys.
My point here is that the Democratic zombie army is every bit as narrow minded as their hill billy cousins on the right. They just think they are smarter than everyone else, and will tell you that - thats the only difference. Now like good zombies go find all the facts and get back to prove me wrong so you can feel good about advancing "the cause"
...KURT>>>they are incorrigible misogynists, just because they're women, doesn't mean they don't hate women. i've met a lot of self hating men, shit they ran the WH from 2002-2008.
Ok, so the list of Republican traits so far is as follows:
racist
misogynistic
gun nutty
(anyone's dear old Mom or Dad a republican, by the way?...oh, hey. let's continue):
anti civil rights
war-mongering
torture-loving
Anything else?
1. Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet, no matter what Rush Limbaugh says. His exact quote was:
"But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."
2. Most of the old Dixiecrats are today's Republicans. When Lyndon Johnson signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, he put down his pen and told an aide, "We have lost the South for a generation." And he was right.
3. Lincoln and Eisenhower would both be thrown out of today's Republican Party for being too liberal. (Ike also started building the Interstate Highway System, and the top marginal tax rate during his administration was over 90%. Sounds downright socialist if you ask me.)
OK b3ta -- I hear ya... and so I put Women Haters on the list!
Evil -- you just don't get it...I can tell. Read the list I'm compiling above... what's wrong with you?
Farwest1...you and I have had a few disagreements in the past. It's no surprise we disagree on this also.
"We wouldn't have gone into Iraq if it weren't for Republicans."
For your info:
-Democrats had 29 Ayes and 21 Nays in the senate, authorizing the war in Iraq.
-Democrats had 82 Ayes and 126 nays in the H of Reps. And while this would not be enough to authorize the war, 40% of democrats approving the measure is by no means progressive.
"We wouldn't have tortured people if it weren't for Republicans."
Let's wait and see how this unfolds. I'll bet there was bipartisan support for Bush's use of torture. Let's put a wager on it.
"We wouldn't have civil rights if it weren't for Democrats."
Does Obama support Gay marriage? What about gay civil rights?
"We wouldn't be talking about global climate change if it weren't for Democrats."
You're right. This is where democrats are actually more progressive than republicans.
Al Gore... no, i don't think that was him. But this 'Rush Limbaugh' guy sounds interesting.
eh, i'll fight the war in front of me, not the war behind me. Republicans have been co-opted by the religious, cultural, Christian Conservatives. so, i'll take my legally owned ak-47 and go to church on Sunday and practice me some Darwinism.
Nancy Pelosi is a hag...and if she's at the AIA2009 Convention, i'll tell her to her face.
"so, i'll take my legally owned ak-47 and go to church on Sunday and practice me some Darwinism."
In light of recent events, especially, that is one of the worst things I've seen written read on this webiste.
wow, joking is off limits now, see you are not for freeeeeeeedoooommmmmm!
how about this; i'll go to an anti-abortion rally in front of Planned Parenthood clinic and firebomb both groups? all while shouting; bababooey, bababooey?!
Freedom for those responsible enough to handle it, yes.
bababoo...e..e?
where is responsibility in my Constitution? I can't seem to find it. Nor is will of the people....hmmm.
Whatever anyone says, the Iraq war was invented by a Republican administration.
And a Democratic administration created civil rights, social security, etc.
My point is not that all Republicans are bad, only that most of the elements that represent progressive, forward-looking values come from the Democrats.
See? I knew we all still had something to say about politics. :o)
(Still gnawing on popcorn....)
I'll repeat this again, because it's worth repeating:
"The Republican party has been taken over by its ugliest wing: the selfish plutocratic fear-mongering snarlers. Moderates have no voice, and are actively mocked by the "base" of the party."
I actually like a lot of Republicans of the moderate variety. It's those paleo-conservatives on the hard right who know no compromise that I really dislike.
The party of negativity, obstructionism, no ideas, and pessimism. If the Republicans came up with just ONE idea that didn't have to do with vague threats of terrorism (or torture) I might be more inclined to like them.
But scanning the list of individuals I mentioned earlier, these are venal, unpleasant, paranoid people who actually believe that socialism is still something we're fighting against. (Or rather, some weird hybrid of socialism-fascism-terrorism-islamism, all of which is somehow miraculously ascribed to Obama. These are a bunch of infantile name callers, when it comes down to it.)
I wish there were still a loyal opposition in this country. But instead we have an ineffectual, inept and bitter opposition.
Nicely put, farwest. <virtual high five>
"I actually like a lot of Republicans of the moderate variety. It's those paleo-conservatives on the hard right who know no compromise that I really dislike."
Exactly. Cheers all around!
"i'll go to an anti-abortion rally in front of Planned Parenthood clinic and firebomb both groups" ...B3ta
"so, i'll take my legally owned ak-47 and go to church on Sunday and practice me some Darwinism." ...B3ta
B3ta is from your camp. Ya'll were saying?
KURT, you're pretty new aren't you? beta's been fake threatening people to get a rise out of them for a while. The difference, of course, is that the people who actually DO listen to Glenn Beck and think their guns are going to get taken away have killed how many cops since January? 10? Oakland, Pittsburgh, and Florida, and counting? Because they think "Obama is going to take their guns away." So, does that put you in the cop-killers camp, or what?
Spector for Senate!
"Its not social engineering, its helping those who need the most help"
No its not. Its called buying votes and creating a permanent underclass.
100 years of it and folks are still poor. In fact in the poorest areas, they are beyond poor - they are 5th generation welfare rollers with absolutely no social structure unlike their sweatshop cousins 100 years ago. People need jobs and markets to participate beyond the drug markets. Social safety nets are good and needed but when they become a trap, and used for vote farming, the whole system needs to be tossed out.
There is a simple dam fix to the plight of the democratic innercity voting block, which is killed by the same party - low cost manufacturing jobs.
"5th generation welfare rollers"
nice dog whistle, ep.
buying votes isn't social engineering, so you just negated your own argument.
Dog Whistle? Is it it racist to say the democratic party keeps blacks in their place rather than helping them find employment in the inner cities and industrial towns? Than yes - guilty as charged. As someone who has worked on inner city projects like low income area comunity centers, the leadership is blatantly pro-keeping people poor while providing no real attempt to actually fix the underlying cancer - no jobs. Just token projects, like community centers.
it's racist to assume that "5th generation welfare rollers" (find one) are black.
wasn't trickle down supposed to provide those jobs? you know, supply side? a lot of f*cking good that did, eh?
The more I read about Arlen Specter, the more I like the guy. He's actually honest, came out and said "Look, I can't win as a Republican" and it's absolutely refreshing. Of course, he supported the Iraq war, but then again, so did some Democrats (cough cough Hillary cough cough)
I dont see the Democrats going to great pains to register rural farm hands and Appalachian whites? So now calling the urban poor, who are statistically black, black - is racist? I love your logic.
the era of supply side economics roughly 1982-2002 and roughly correlating with Greenspan's tenure shows a negatively sloping unemployment trend.
link
Is it possible that the inner cities were sold out in a period of general prosperity? Very likely. There's no reason a nation like ours cant maintain home grown manufacturing unless there is presure to not do so. Maybe its foreign policy - take our jobs and support us in return. Maybe its regulation. Maybe its greed. Could be labor strife. But it's something and there should be outrage.
I conceed the term "welfare roller" is wrong. Its not a racist attack, but I could see where the term might be loaded. But the gist of it is that a vast majority of inner city residents are indeed receiving section 8, welfare or other financial aid and I think theres more than "helping the poor" involved.
The term comes from welfare roll. Pardon me if Im not as correct in my language.
If I may turn things on this thread on their head a bit, but speaking of racism.....
One beef I have with LEFT-wing commentators is their tendency to jump on anyone who starts talking about immigration as "racist". I find it strange when I agree with Fox News people who say "maybe we should actually control our border a bit better" but uh, there's a possible pandemic on the horizon here. I don't think it's a bad idea to start enforcing our laws, for crying out loud. Is that somehow racist? The border is way too porous and if terrorists had half a brain, they would be trying to get in through Mexico. Of course, they might be getting the idea now....
"The difference, of course, is that the people who actually DO listen to Glenn Beck and think their guns are going to get taken away have killed how many cops since January? 10? "
Glen Beck listeners equal cop killers? What an insane "connection". So far it sounds like you and Beta have a lot in common, WonderK.
WonderK -- I'd always take issue with what looks like a defense of what Beta has said here.
At the same time, i think i clearly misunderstood what you were saying your example i quoted above -- so, sorry on that second part -- up late... ya know. :-)
Evil,
That quote of mine you took seems to imply that i said, and intended to say, 'give inner city poor jobs so that they continue to vote democrat'. I never said that, and in fact i completely agree with you that localy, not enough is done to empower inner city poor to help themselves...
What i dont get is how putting an emphasis on bringing jobs back to the inner city is any more or less a 'social engineering' project that just increasing welfare rolls (the stereotypical democrat platform)?
My point is, this is a severely underprivileged section of the population. For many, through no fault of their own. There is no pulling of oneself up by the boot straps in such situations. The deck is clearly stacked so intensely against them, it is a noteworthy achievement when someone actually makes it out and does something meaningful... its the stuff of newspaper articles and movies... that is how rare its become. Now, whether this has to do with democractic vote harvesting or not, the situation exists, and i dont see any rational reason that it shouldnt be a core value and goal of ANY government to do everything possible to alleviate it. So, having said all this, i guess i dont really care... social engineering or not, the situation has to improve by any means neccessary.
And for those of you who like to keep altruism and paternalistic tendency out of government, 'poverty abatement through social engineering' has the potential to single handedly turn the economy around. Imagine if we could put even 1/2 of our inner city unemployed into a job... imagine the economic impact...
Really, don't make the guy into a hero. He did nothing hard by defecting - it was the easy way out of a situation. If the guy had any backbone he would have worked with his party for postive change, etc.
I mean, I can't blame the guy for going Democrat - but moves like that won't make me respect you.
The GOP is looking for ways to reinvent its image now...
[url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/29/gop-set-to-launch-rebranding-effort/[/url]
[url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/29/gop-set-to-launch-rebranding-effortlink[/url]
This is a minor gripe, but it's an indicator of the myriad ways in which the Republican party has been infantile in its attacks on the Democratic party:
Instead of saying "the Democratic party" Republicans (and lletdownl and a few others here) say "the Democrat party." That's an incorrect usage, and it's attempting to somehow imply that Democrats are not democratic.
If the Republican party would grow up, and stop using such infantile tactics, they might find themselves once again a national force, instead of a Southern good ol' boy party—running on a platform of "guns, no homos, and creationism."
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