ok im no m.arch but i feel your pain

the same thing happens all the time in my office. what bothers me the most is getting word from a project manager that the interior designer wants us to make changes to the RCP, millwork location or layout or even the floorplan! sometimes totally disregarding our original intent.

i have no clue why there is a difference in the fields.. this is defiantly a recent occurrence in the architectural profession's history.. im sure if we keep allowing the separation of our duties we will be working with "exterior designers" soon... oh wait, ive already done that!

it wasnt long ago when architects were responsive for structural, mechanical and electrical components of the building.. i hate to see architects being turned into stamp monkeys for a bunch of sup-consultants.

Yes, the MArch carries more professional weight.

Get the MArch and then specialize in interiors. This is about forging a path for your career AFTER school, not what you do IN school. With the MArch you can go into interiors easily; with the MIntD or whatever it's called you can't do the opposite.

The School of the Art Institute of Chicago offers a Masters of Architecture with an emphasis in Interior Architecture. We are a NAAB candidate school, so pending the final decision grads will be able to start taking licensing exams by August 2010. The degree is an MArch, but the studios emphasize the development of interior experiences.

just wait until work after school...I want to design the box and engineer the glues that hold it together...man, am I screwed!

i's just terrible that a lot of responsibilities that used to be part of what it means to be an architect are taken apart and cut in small portions. nobody is responsible any more for the big picture and the small picture at the same time, that's why often things get screwed-up. everybody blows their own horn, blaming the other when shit hits the fan, all those consultants are experts in their own field but often forget to look beyond the artificial and legal limits of their speciality, which is necessary to create great architecture. If that makes any sense...

But anywho, I would suggest the MArch and do interiors while working.

no offense to those who believe architecture is so atomised and screwy, but it ain't so. the architects in all projects i have worked on in three countries were the ones in charge and the place where the buck stopped. unequivocally so, in fact.

that does not preclude respecting other professions and working with specialists, and it does not make us weaker to use them either. not at all. look at what rem does with inside outside and with west 8, among others, at his side.

get m.arch and then focus on interiors. it is much easier than the other way round, just as LB says. i don't see why you can't pursue interiors while doing architecture as well, in school and profesionally. limits like that were not imposed in my uni, and professionally is mostly a matter of which office you pursue as place to work...

while it may be true that these conditions exist, we have only ourselves to blame.

for whatever reason, large swathes our profession have abandonded any pretense of real expertise in these areas and we no longer have meaningful credibility with the client community -- we are perceived (rightly or wrongly) in many quarters as only being concerned with form and monuments to our own egos.

need true technical expertise -- well, let's just turn that over to somebody else to figure it out.

Well, you guys all are of a consensus that I should pursue the M.Arch... Guess I'll have to find classes on finishes somewhere else to augment it, then!

Thanks everyone :)

I knew a bunch of people in grad school with interior design backgrounds. It was a solid background and it really paid off.

There are also a lot of registered architects who primarily do interiors work.

I know lots of people that are both AIA and NCIDQ. Far as I know they only have an education background in architecture.

The interior design profession has done a great job selling itself.

On the last two residential jobs I worked on, as we were starting the design, the clients said "oh, and we want to hire a designer."

I said, "what do you mean, a designer?"

They said "you know, an interiors person." Uh, hey, I'm also a designer.

People have such a misconception about what architects do. Our profession has been awful about conveying that architects are also interior designers. A good architect can do everything an interior designer can do, plus we can make it buildable. My experience is that many interior designers have no idea how to detail.

Farwest1- if that's true, the arch profession should fight back to stake its claim, especially considering all these new "Masters of Interior Architecture" programs which are also 3 years, like the M.Archs. Pretty soon even the licensed architects will need separate education in order to qualify as interior designers!

most any school you get an M.Arch at you will have other classes you could take that help you focus on interiors as well

as you said, the 2 are very related

I am currently having the opposite problem. I am in a school that only offers an interior design major but does not have a full architecture program and I want to do architecture. I am in the process of transferring out to an architecture program which has been a real hassle. I was looking into staying here and majoring in interior design but I have found there there is quite a difference between being an architect and an interior designer. But what I can tell you is that (at least in Texas an I would assume the rest of the United States) a licensed architect is just as capable of doing every thing an architect is just as capable of doing everything an interior design can do an so much more. This is what architects, interior designers, and my professors have told me. If I were you, what i would do is major in interior design and then go to grad school for architecture. There is a much wider range opportunities in architects than in interiors designs. I'm pretty skeptical of the point in getting a masters in interior design. I've always thought the next step up from interior design is architecture and if someone is going to spend that much time and money in school, why not just get a masters in architecture but focus on interior design in your career?

But anyway, to answer you question, UT Arlington and University of Houston both offer degrees in interior architecture. Although I'm not sure either one of there design programs are on the same level as Pratt or RISD, but they do offer what your looking for and they are both accredited programs. And if you worried about finding work after school, Texas is not a bad place to be right now because the we are not having nearly the economic troubles that many parts of the country are having.

I'd say go with the M.Arch. Most have electives in materials, surfaces, color theory, etc. - and even if the do not have enough of this to satisfy your interests and goals, these courses are very easy to find in continuing ed and certificate programs later, whereas you can't get the core M.Arch material that way.

The majority of states still don't license interior designers, so anybody can call themselves one with no particular education or qualifications.

But even in those states that do license interior designers, some of them will automatically grant an Interior Designer license to anybody who has an Architect license in that state, without requiring the architect to take the NCIDQ exam or to have any specific interior design education.
This is because the ARE is considered to be encompass the entire scope of the NCIDQ exam, and an NAAB-accredited architecture program encompasses everything that is required of an interior design education for licensing.

I became licensed interior designer in Connecticut after I got my architecture license, just by filling out a form. They even waive the $25 fee for architects. This tends to help somewhat with those clients who do say "we want to hire an interior designer", though some still want a separate designer anyway (and often this turns out not to be a licensed ID, but a decorator friend or nephew or something like that.)

People are not taking into account that the interior is what people live in. This is what they see, what they live and work in, what clients see, and, ultimately, influence everyday.

While you can say one is more substantial than another, the fact is that there is a demand and need for interior designers.

I see more interiors that I find inspiring than I see architecture.



I considered interiors for a while, too. I love them. But you will have more choices with a MArch.

My advice, get a subscription to Interior Design magazine. I haven't looked at them in a while, but if they are maintaining quality you'll find better designs in there than most architecture magazines.
Met Home and Arch Digest are hit or miss (mostly miss), but you can find a gem here and there. Study study study!

In my experience, interior designers are very protective over their niche, and that includes keeping architects out. I expressed interest in dropping architecture and joining my company's interior design team. The same ID's who often came to me for design and technical assistance and help with their NCIDQ studying, told me I was hardly qualified to be an ID, and that it just wouldn't work out because I didn't have the right skills. Whatever, I think it meant I didn't dress trendy enough.

wpmeads- I'm actually from Houston, and I was in town last week and chcecked out U of H. Their Interior Arch program isn't in place yet, but as it stands it'd only be undergrad, not grad (though the guy said grads could take electives there.)

In any case, I already have a BA, so what I'm looking into right now are MAs. And yeah, after hearing so much about the recession here in the Middle East, I was expecting tragedy in Houston, but thank Gd it seems to have been pretty resilient to economic fluctuations.

Bloopox- That's a really good point, that the AREs encompass the Int Des stuff, too. I actually don't know if I'll ever end up doing the AREs, since I want to study in the US and then move back to the Middle East (I don't want to be stuck in the US for 3.5 years + 3 for an internship.)

About the people who want to bring in separate interior designers... isn't that annoying to you?? i would be so annoyed if I had planned a gorgeous building and planned the interiors, and then they brought in someone alien to the project, especially considering interiors might be my favorite part!

It also seems ridiculous that as some people above mentioned, Interior Designers get paid more because they bring more money to a firm and projects are completed faster! Ridiculous.

Trace- you seem to be the only one agreeing about how crucial the interior is. When you're in a building, you don't pause and think "I wonder what the exterior looks like?" No! You look around at the colors, textures, lighting, etc. That is the setting for your life, the micro-elements.

Do you think it's possible to really learn anything from looking at magazines? They don't really contain theory, just general ideas, and I wouldn't want to copy someone else's inspiration.

Strawbeary- what jerks! I would hate to be pigeon-holed into architecture if I did that... would prefer to intern in both fields.

And about dressing trendy, I have the worse fashion ever... very bland. But then I think about how Michael Kohrs only seems to wear black suits and I am comforted. As long as my designs stand out, I'll consider my outfits a blank slate for my creativity!

i would say the interior is just as crucial as the exterior

and in today's specialized world, people focus on either the interior or the exterior, interior design, vs architecture

you have to choose which you would like
or if your desire is to work with both, follow that path

i think everyone seems to agree though that to follow both, you should become an architect first as that seems to be the easier way to do both

No one's saying that the interior isn't just as crucial to building as the exterior!

What some people are saying, however, is that a good architect is just as capable as an interior designer (and perhaps more capable) of designing an awesome interior space.

i was responding to another comment, not yours farwest

not sure if or why it offended you but that wasnt the intent and i didnt say people were saying the interior isnt as crusial as the exterior

farwest - that's certainly true as a general statement, the problem is that most architect's couldn't tell you what Cassina couch that was, or what Ingg Maurer light that is (I love both companies, fyi).

You need to know more fundamental things - the details, the textures, etc., etc. None of it is hard to learn, just that I have never met an architect that knows these things well (myself included, although I've spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with the companies, as well as shopping for them ;-) ).

SBeth - yes, I do think it is possible to learn by studying. As a matter of fact, I think it is absolutely crucial to developing as a designer. That's the single most overlooked part, imho, of many people's education or view. You need to understand what makes something good, why it is the way it is, how each piece works, what you like and why you like it, etc.

Studying talented people's work will reveal things you will never discover with a blank canvas. No design out there starts completely from scratch.

When you consider the full breadth of the profession, I think it important to reflect on the idea that few, if any, professionals can be highly competent in every aspect of the profession.

The italicized statement above could be rewritten to state that a good architect with extensive hospital design experience is just as capable as one who has spent a career designing single family residences. They both may be capable, but they are capable in different ways.

While most of us have the potential to be competent in a number of different aspects of the profession, I believe the current reality indicates that most of us choose a path fairly early in our careers that allow us to become highly competent in a fairly narrow aspect of the profession, simultaneously distancing us from true competence in many other aspects.

Our firm employs about equal numbers of interior designer and architects. some of the interior designers were educated as architects and some of those are licensed. they're all capable professionals. nevertheless, there are considerable differences in their respective bodies of knowledge and competencies. they are not interchangeable in the short run.

true expertise builds up over the years through practice -- college training or interest does not easily replace, or supplant, years of in-the-field practice.

Sbeth85
i think it is possible to learn from magazines, as in general, it just exposes you to many different ideas going on that you might not have an experience with yet

you can take those ideas and adjust parts of them to fit something you are working on, or just in general, it might inspire you towards a completely different idea


i wouldnt worry about stealing ideas unless you copy something exactly as you see it

you might not learn a lot of theory from magazines, which is why it shouldnt be your primary source of learning
but they definitely help

comb- I don't know if you were referring to me (because I said something fairly similar) but I didn't mean to imply that architects were way more talented than interior designer. I was really referring to more of a legal sense. At least were I live, any thing a an interior designer can do, LEGALLY an architect is just as capable of doing every thing and interior designer can do and more but that is not true the other way around. Sense I am still in school and have little real world experience, I would be speaking out of ignorance to an architect is "better" at designing interiors than an interior designer. That's a HUGE generalization that I'm not wanting to imply.

I guess I should have explained myself better....

But the point that I was trying to make is that it would be nice as an interior designer to have that masters of architecture in your back pocket, especially in these economic times, because I would give you a wider range of projects you can except. Right now, a lot of the interior designer majors are applying for internships and they were getting turned down for free internship jobs for interior design firms simply because the firms were having a very hard time find work and just wouldn't have had anything for them to do. Like Sbeth85 said, interior design is a luxury and people tend to cut down on luxuries during difficult economic times. However, I have interned for two different architects over the past year and neither one of them have had trouble finding work. This is probably not true across the board, but this has been my experience.

My comments weren't meant to mean that the interior of a building is any less important, or that interior designers do not need specialized education or training.

My point is that it is easier to obtain a license as an interior designer with an architecture degree than to get a license as an architect with an interior design degree.
It's also easier to get the training to be a good interior designer on more of a part-time basis, while already working as a professional, than it is to get an architecture education that way. This is because of the way that interior design programs are structured, and because it is a popular second career (i.e. a field that a very large majority of its members enter after already working in other fields.) There are many, many part-time, evening, weekend-intensive, etc. ID programs that count toward the education requirements for those states that license IDs. But this is not the case for architecture.


As for whether it bothers me when clients want to bring in a separate interior designer: no, it doesn't, as long as I know about this fairly early on, and as long as the interior designer is capable of and willing to work collaboratively to coordinate everything that requires coordination.
If you go into architecture - particularly high end residential architecture - you need to understand that many clients will bring in not just outside interior designers, but all sorts of additional specialists, including but not limited to: kitchen planners, lighting designers, landscape designers, media room specialists, acoustical designers, marine consultants, feng shui consultants, muralists, closet planners, you name it...
The architect's role often includes the coordination of all of these personalities and realms.

there seems to be an argument about weather the interior is any less or more important than the exterior of the building. this is argument is ridiculous from both sides as the building is a whole, there is nothing less or more important about anything in a building. Good interior or exterior design are equally crucial as are good washroom layouts, a well laid out lighting design or the HVAC system. all aspects of a building should be looked at as a whole, not individually. so that brings me back to the point that there is no reason why we should separate the 2 professions. its just a ridiculous argument from either end.

this is really lame.. but im gonna go there... just think about frank lloyd wright.. imagine being his client and telling him you wanted to hire an interior designer. think about how that would go..

The question I was trying to pose was whether or not an architecture education (MArch) focused sufficiently on the interior and 'human' experience of the place. That led to stuff about which training would be the most appropriate, that's all...