are you asking if you offer yourself to become a sacrificial lamb, to save another's job, like a voluntary buyout?

i'd check with unemployment in your region and find out the particulars.

a. in our jurisdiction, this would not allow you to collect unemployment benefts.

b. some years ago, an intern in a firm where I worked "volunteered" to be laid-off during a slowdown. the firm reacted badly and fired him for reasons other than lack of work. he was not eligible for unempkoyment. the firm fought it when he applied anyway - the firm won.

don't do it, man.

tell us, please, why you are contemplating this action. what do you hope to accomplish?

stone, that sounds terrible! Was the poor kid a total fuck up or something?

Some architectural firms in Chicago have offered opportunity for informal unpaid sabbatical leaves to their remaining staff people, keeping them as "employees without salary compensation". It can be a mutually beneficial arrangement. NYTimes did several articles advocating an extended leave as opportunity to explore other interests, vacation, etc, with firm's encouragement and permission. A law firm in NYC is offering one-year sabbaticals to its associates, in a NYT's article this week.

I've heard of several firms asking for older Architects to "retire" where they'd officially be laid off and able to collect unemployment, but just would probably not be re-entering the work force.

If you are working for a firm going through staff reductions and would like to leave, yet still want to collect unemployment, I would think you could work something out. I'd be sure to offer this only as an option to save someone else's job. Don't say anything about disliking the firm, etc. Right now firms are becoming very flexible about how to deal with trimming overhead. Present an option and you'll likely get positive response.

aquapura......out of the handful of responses I think I relate most to your point of view...I know of several people who have sucessfuly negotiated voluntarily getting laid off and get unemployment - the response from the firms are good...typically, they are surprised, but understanding and supportive...One thing I've heard is that impending layoffs must include someone in a similar position to you and you are effectively taking their place on the chopping block...might be a legal thing...dont know for sure. Another thing is to get the arrangement down on paper and signed in case the Fed takes issue.

babs......At times like these we get a chance to really look at our situation...for some, a career in architecture is an "at all costs" lifestyle...for some it is an opportunity to make a living and support a family...for others, this downturn is an opportunity to explore alternate careers and lifestyles (if the individual or family can stomach it). I think its slightly insulting to our peers to consider being laid off as the worst thing that can happen...many people I know are doing wonderful things with their time away from "situation normal" and many are pursuing life-long goals and reconnecting with the world beyond "architecture"...

I think a well rounded discussion on being laid-off is healthy and important...

The case I described above was about a guy who couldn't stand the stress of waiting to get layed off. He went to the managing principal and told him he would like the firm to lay him off so he could have some free time to renovate his house.

I learned later that the firm's reaction came from the fact that a) he was not on any lay-off list [he was assigned to a project on which he was needed] and b) they thought his plan was unprofessional and indicated a lack of commitment to the firm. Because firm's must pay into an unemployment fund, they felt it was inappropriate for them to incur that cost for somebody who didn't really want to stay with the firm anyway.

The irony of it all is that if he had kept his mouth shut, he never would have been at risk anyway because there were no further staff reductions after that time.

danger -- having read your later posts, I won't counsel you to not do this. however, just be aware of the risks. you know your current employer better than any of us. if you can navigate those waters, more power to you.

I'm not suggesting "voluntary lay-off", but rather unpaid leave for a month or two, to travel or to do urgently-needed home remodelling or family leave, etc. following the traditional definition of sabbatical.

This is a good point danger. Right now the ranks of Architects needs some serious trimming. I'm nervous about losing a whole generation of architects, but if anyone might feel this career path isn't their dream job now is the perfect time to explore alternatives. Many people that have been laid off will find some alternative career and likely become very successful and happy with that path.

I believe Archinector's are passionate about this career, or else they wouldn't bother to spend their time here. Unfortunately passion alone doesn't make one immune to the ecomony these days. I'm not saying anyone should give up on architecture, but you're right, down the road a layoff might have been the catalyst to something good. You never know.

You know - I have a queasy feeling about the ethics underlying "voluntary layoffs".

While I can accept the idea that maybe this might save the job of somebody who's happy at their firm and doing good work, at the same time it makes me a little angry that someone would voluntarily want to leave their job and still want to receive unemployment payments while he pursues his muse. I don't want to be harsh about this, but there's a certain "undeserved" quality to this scenario - it has a feeling of entitlement that make me uneasy.

I've changed the course of my career several times over the years -- I never expected anybody else to underwrite the costs of that change. If you leave on your own, you're still preserving someone else's job. I just can't get used to the idea that wanting to leave should entitle someone to unemployment benefits.

Unemployment benefits are designed to provide a cushion for somebody who involuntarily loses his job -- the employer is funding the cost of those benefits and the pay-in rate goes up each time another person is laid off. This just seems a little unfair to me.

why wait for a 'lay off' to make a career change...

i believe everyone on this forum has a certain passion about some 'niche' in architecture, it's a matter of finding that 'niche' that keeps you going.

i have friends that mention that they work tooo many hours for little pay but then get layed off and still try to find a job in the field.

sometimes a break is good to help you refocus on the important things in your life.

Relax and take a step back. There have been many stories of large corporations asking for volunteers in lieu of mass layoffs. For volunteering they were offered very generous severance packages. Unfortunately Architecture is not nearly as lucrative as big Fortune 500 business is and cannot offer such things, but the need is still the same. Firms need to cut staff/overhead, plain and simple.

Principals and managers are over burdened with stress these days because of necessary staff reductions. I would think finding volunteers would make a tough decision much easier. Since most firms cannot afford generous severance I think it's only fair that said "volunteers" should expect unemployment benefits. If nobody volunteers the situation is the same, only the manager has added stress and potentially is unnecessarily making someones life much much more difficult.

aqua - I see your point, but I also see comb's. On balance, I'm leaning toward supporting the idea that if someone's not content in their job or happy in their career, it's not necessarily up to the firm to undewrite - via contributions to the unemployment fund - a career change that is fundamentally a personal issue based on life decisions made before this mess started.

if this subject were not being debated against the backdrop of a crappy economy, I'm pretty sure that point of view would receive stronger support here.

I could only see this "voluntary layoff" situation working with a really great severance or retirement package. Like a "golden parachute". And I've never heard of an architecture firm offering an awesome severance package to ANYONE. They typically don't have the resources or profit margin.

babs - I agree, if today was anything like typical times anyone asking for a "layoff" just to collect unemployment would be laughed out of the place and probably fired.

Previously I was alluding to the "golden parachute" that some major corporations have been offering. The buyouts the auto manufacturers have offered, etc. I don't see the staff reductions architecture firms are doing as much different, shedding expenses from the balance sheet during slow times.

Unfortunately the gov't isn't giving billions to arch firms to buy out employees and cut their expenses, so yes, I do condone some unemployment fraud to cull staff that's willing to exit the profession.