True, SeriousQuestion, but at the moment no one can get a job. Moreover, does it not sound foolish to attend an Ivy just to get a better job? Perhaps I am naive or foolishly idealistic but I was under the impression that students attending graduate school were there for more substantive reasons.

hey SeriousQuestion

The logic is not faulty because hankd is talking about passion, something that doesn't make sense. If someone is not logical, then it's logical to conclude the steps they take to acheive their goals also doesn't make sense.

cg: why would it be foolish to attend a highly ranked, ivy league PROFESSIONAL school to get a better job?

yes, i agree that perhaps you are naive.

hw: you seem to be confused about hank's argument. he's suggesting that you CONCEDE to your real passions, and pursue law, in order to someday pursue your "true" architectural dream. he's the one deferring to some system of logic.

and cg, what would you define as more substantive? is professional fulfillment insufficient cause?

Same. It's totally naive to think that a job will be there simply because you went to an ivy. Even in a non-recession, someone with who went to a less prestigious school will still 'land that job' over you if they have a better portfolio and resume.


Anyways, I'm finding it hard not to think about whether I'll be accepted or rejected, too. I only actually applied to two schools (not ivies), and if I'm not accepted I think I'll probably take it as a sign and end up going to grad school for something else, since I'm having misgivings about the profession/work culture anyways. I don't know.

I'm realizing the enormity of this decision - that is, what to study in graduate school. It'll pretty much dictate the career and direction of the rest of my life. Overwhelming, aaagh!

@ SeriousQuestion

good point, and perhaps i am naive but i'm not foolish enough to think an Ivy degree will automatically get me or anyone else a job.

of course professional fulfillment is a noble pursuit. indeed, these are professional programs that aim to shape highly capacious students into stronger designers and thinkers that will create projects both built and speculative. however, that is only a small element.

i believe that you don't pursue a masters programs to be a better architect. if your objective is to simply "be a better architect" my recommendation would be to pursue other things, like getting licensed, volunteering, building furniture, learning new software, read Infinite Jest, and so forth. while they are labeled 'professional' programs, i basically see them as something more.

jk3hl,
Although it's not my business and I'm sorry for giving an advice, but I remember the portfolio you posted here very well and I really liked, so I hope you won't give up doing architecture

yo SeriousQuestions

I don't see why someone can't be a lawyer and then an architect... Frank L. Wright was an engineer before he was an architect... Tadao Ando didn't even have formal training and drove trucks for a time... Adolf Loos failed several times at getting through architecture school... I remember Michael Hays saying that you have to go out there and actually do something interesting... I guess you have be inspired and passionate.

Graduate school is not the end all and be all in an architect's career or life; can we really be obsessed with something that is not in our control and claim to have domain over our own identity as architects? Wright, Ando, and Loos are examples of the differentiation between those who live the life of an architect and those who study it. There is no quantifiable way to determine the direction of the choices each of us makes in life and what they will lead to; we can try and explain it with numbers and make sense of it, but in the end it doesn't make any sense; logically, it would be near impossible for someone like Loos, who failed several times at architecture school to rise to any prominence; equally, it is rather inconcievable for a trucker driver to become one of the most celebrated architects in modern times.

Graduate school promises intellectual stimulation, professional networking, and prestige; but we are likely to become "bureaucrats" who preserve, improve upon and maintain the status quo, not the "advant gaurde" who lead interesting lives and push us into the undiscovered parts of the architecture universe and discovery. Most of us will never be towering figures in the profession; we will occupy the upper echelons of it, but superstars we only hope to be. Most of us will be happy with that, but others will want more than just a confortable life.

Just ordered a few books for bucketlist reading: REM koolhaas s, m, x, xl (first time i knew about this when hirano mentioned it, thanks, cant wait for this to arrive)

Topologies: The Urban Utopia in France ; Larry Busbea

Envisioning Information ; Edward R. Tufte

anyone have any 'must-reads' to recommend? just sold a bunch of undergrad textbooks so...looking to invest!

hope to forget about my m.arch application till march

peace + good luck!

cradle to cradle

Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead"

Duany, Plater + Zybek's "Suburban Nation"

Bjarke Ingels' "Yes is More"

Corbusier's "Towards a New Architecture"

And of course, all the"American Architecture Now" interviews from the 1980's - you can find them on YouTube... the Phillip Johnson piece is fantastic.

Feels so good to be done. Just have to finish up my FAFSA info and I'm going to try to tackle that tonight.
The anxiety of waiting is def augmenting by the day... I was reading through the discussion thread for 2009 applicants around March it looked like a hell-storm of stress. But anyway not much we can do at this point it is in admissions' hands.

I also want to say how much help this thread has been for me and good luck to everyone applying in what looks to be the most competitive year ever for a MArch acceptance.

Until March when this place is bound to wake up again. Take it easy all.

forget about architecture for awhile:

Hunter Thompson 'fear and loathing in las vegas.'
Greil Marcus 'lipstick traces' (i'm reading this one currently...."secret history" of 20th century through lens of the sex pistols)


you guys will get to read all of those lovely, ego-driven, 8000-page manifestos while in school, and frankly, most of them are very outdated (given the world of post-opulence we live/are going to be living in)

ADavin,

I REALLY hope that this is not the most competitive year ever for an MArch acceptance. I can't imagine going through this whole thing again for a third year...

The Villain,

agreed.

The Frontiersmen: A Narrative by Allan Eckert

Crazy Horse and Custer by Stephen Ambrose (and Undaunted Courage)

John Adams by David McCullough

love me some US history

OK, here's my "must-reads" list.

Jun'ichirō Tanizaki "In Praise of Shadows"
Bernard Tschumi "Architecture and Disjunction"
Rem Koolhaas "Delirious New York"

just finished 'a place of my own' by michael pollan. i highly recommend it.

ARE Review Manual by David Kent Ballast is my distraction

Hi all, question about financial aid -

Besides filling out the FAFSA (and - if applicable - brief school-specific forms), where else have people been applying for aid?

Does anyone have any information about how much schools usually give in the form of grants/scholarships? (I've applied to GSAPP, YSOA, GSD, UPenn, Pratt, and Parsons - so specifically any information about those schools would be great).

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for your interest in UCLA Architecture and Urban Design. While we are in the process of reviewing your application materials, I wanted to write to share some important information with you.

As you are probably aware from the media, the monetary cuts in California State funding to the University of California have had a dramatic impact on many UCLA departments. In order to maintain the excellence of our programs, retain our outstanding faculty, and provide opportunities for enhanced financial aid to students, the Architecture and Urban Design department will implement a Professional Degree Fee (PDF) beginning in Fall of 2010.

The amount of the PDF will be $8,000 per academic year, and will apply to all students enrolled in the Master of Architecture I and Master of Architecture II graduate degree programs.

I am pleased to tell you that a minimum of one third of the revenue from the PDF will be returned to our students through financial aid. If you haven't done so yet, we encourage all applicants to complete the government's FAFSA application found online at www.fafsa.ed.gov, (or equivalent for international students) so they may be eligible to receive financial aid.

Thank you again for applying to UCLA Architecture and Urban Design.

ha lore! I just got that email myself and am cracking up right now.

my favorite part: "I am pleased to tell you that a minimum of one third of the revenue from the PDF will be returned to our students through financial aid."

I wonder how much "revenue" they plan on getting from this.

I got that UCLA email as well. My eyes literally rolled back in their sockets at the "I am pleased" commentary. Hardly anything pleasing about it to begin with. $8k is still $8k. Bleh...

UCLA approved to add PDF finally?
Do you guys think UC Berkeley would do the same?

jk3hl...

This may be a little late, but I used Blurb to print and was very happy with the results. I've found it's cheaper than Kinko's and produces a better product. The Blurb software comes with a lot of pre designed pages but there is also an option to fill each page with a jpeg. I did that so I could determine the layout of all the pages. There is also a new option of just uploading a PDF file. Here's a small sample of mine... http://www.blurb.com/books/1116931

Stasis, if you check here, Nick Sowwers, the CED Archinect spy writes about the PDF as though it is inevitable.

apparently sarcasm doesn't register well here. let me get this clear - it's highly inadvisable to do both law and architecture. one should typically do either one or the other given empirical evidence on the average human life span. if you are pressed for money, it would make sense to choose the option with the greater expected return (i.e. E(R)), which in this case is indisputably law. my main point is, if you don't have the money to go into architecture, you shouldn't choose it unless you're completely in love with it or mentally retarded.

note that E(R) as mentioned in my previous post is measured with respect to money. E(R) in terms of telos, satisfaction and other highly unquantifiable factors are probably too difficult to measure and you may as well spare your chances.

*first "and" --> "or"

SeriousQuestion: "young graduates from the GSD and yale, up to their eyes in debt, still can't get jobs."

This is completely true, and I have vast amounts of empirical evidence to support this. These are not good times to pursue architecture, and I am highly surprised anyone would even consider applying to Arch Grad school.

Architecture seems really trendy these days, am I right?

okay, hankd, now you've completely confused me.

"These are not good times to pursue architecture, and I am highly surprised anyone would even consider applying to Arch Grad school."

in earnest, this time, or still sarcastic?

Same. It's totally naive to think that a job will be there simply because you went to an ivy. Even in a non-recession, someone with who went to a less prestigious school will still 'land that job' over you if they have a better portfolio and resume.

the only people i know with jobs right now are those that went to ivy leagues..
also..
not that it's impossible... but won't an ivy league graduate most likely have at minimum a better RESUME and probably portfolio?
there seems to be a lot of skepticism and populism over whether or not ivy leagues have good students....
THEY DO!!!
have you seen the portfolios of those admitted?
committed driven individuals.

i didn't go to ivy league don't plan on it wouldn't want to....
but how do you get around thinking that it's just a name? it's not...

this is a super ridiculous question but does anyone know of a grad school still accepting applications for March ll? any school at all?

or schools that are lenient with late admissions

zoon, what happened?? There are a few schools with a Feb. 1st & 2nd deadlines. Believe they were mentioned on this or the previous page.

i am applying through a scholarship program, and have only been allowed to apply to four schools. only i get an e-mail from them yesterday stating that since the application numbers have soared this year for graduate programs they are allowing me one more application.. a bit too late for that.. but useless to rant about that now! does anyone know of schools that can be lenient about a late app.? pls let me know.. i think i might send a mass e-mail to just about every other school asking if applying now is possible. wise or useless at this point?
damn it!

keopi, you're right - I'm not trying to slam ivy-leaguers in general, I'm just saying that attending one won't guarantee anything. I think hard work (as evidenced in your portfolio) is a better guarantee, and that's something accessible to every arch student.

As someone who went to Columbia's grad school, I have to say that I agree that everyone should apply to at least one school that seems out of reach. I didn't at all expect to get in. I sent in my application last minute. It was a good experience and has led to great things. I am now teaching my own intro to architecture course at Cooper Union (Architecture Through a Mixed Media Lens).

http://cooperunion.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformation&int_class_id=660&int_category_id=2&int_sub_category_id=30&int_catalog_id=0

zoon,

Sci-Arch's Sci Fi program (sort of an urban design degree) has its deadline on March 1.

It seems like a pretty cool program and although I've already sent my stuff into 3 schools with Jan. deadlines, I will probably apply to this one as well.

Shaumyika-

what program did you attend Columbia for? That was the only school I visited.

voneckht,

I attended the M.S. AAD (Advanced Architectural Design) program, which is the post-professional Master's (ie for those who hold a 5 year B.Arch)

blackbook,

fyi, I teach this intro to arch course at Cooper Union (Continuing Ed) which would definitely help get you started with your portfolio. The start date is Feb 3rd and it is extremely reasonably priced.

http://cooperunion.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformation&int_class_id=660&int_category_id=2&int_sub_category_id=30&int_catalog_id=0

Shaumyika

Shaumyika,

I applied to the MSAUD. I have a 3 year M.Arch degree w/ an undergrad BFA. Any thoughts on the program?

I would love to teach and practice ultimately after I complete this degree

So I'm getting kind of worried.

Online for U of T they said my documents are still pending including a reference letter that my professor sent independently while he was on vacation in Montreal. I sent my package on Jan 4 (deadline Jan 15)

How long does it usually take for them to sift through all the application packages and note it online. Not sure if they've received the reference letter either. My prof said he sent it but he's kind of flaky.....

Passerby:

If I were you I would call the admissions office immediately to see what they specifically need if anything. I feel that 15 days beyond the deadline all documents should be accounted for... the sooner you ameliorate the problem, and the more intent on it you appear to them, the more of a chance you have of making this actually benefit you in the long run, as you will inevitably stick out from the list as that kid who doesn't have all his materials in. The more maturity, efficiency, and eagerness you show in getting them the required supplies will make all the difference on their impressions of you.

As for you professor, just tell him that you called the admissions office and they DID NOT receive it, so if he could please, print out the recommendation again and send it through. Provide overnight delivery if you have to, but stress to him that you need this in again, regardless of whether or not he actually sent one.

Good luck man. Let us know how it goes.

UofT actually takes a little while before they update your application status on the website. If there is something that is missing the coordinator will notify you by email.

Passerby: I was also getting worried, and my e-mails weren't being answered, so I decided to give Lucy a call earlier today. She said she does have everything and even remembered my name, but just said it takes a while, and they don't check everything off until they've got ALL of your money. Also, if they are missing anything, they'll message you to give you a chance to get it in before discounting you completely.

what school is u of t? tennessee?

university of toronto

doink!

passerby
i had the same kind of problem though, but with another school. my reference was sending it from london and she said it got there on time but they hadn't added it on the website. i waited like 18 days past the deadline (because they said not to contact them because it might take 2-3 weeks for things to process) and i just didn't believe that they hadn't received it yet.
so i had my reference email them.
they show it as being late but i know she sent the letter on time! i don't know what they're doing. they must be really swamped though is all i can think.
everyone i know had something show up late to at least one of their schools. hopefully everything will work out.

I think its ridiculous that these schools are charging $50 - 90 [at least thats the range from the schools I applied] per application and then taking several weeks to sort through and catalogue everyone's submissions. I'm not going to get into it anymore but I think given the high anxiety levels we go through to ensure our applications make it by their strict and sometimes absurd deadlines, they could do us the courtesy of simply cataloguing our items in a timely manner. Give a student work study to help do it, something. Its unbelievable to me.