Pythagoras,

You just pay for the extra tuition for that 3rd year they tack on. I believe (I am not entirely sure) that UNC Charlotte charges per credit hour, so it'd be a varying amount each semester based on how many classes you take. According to the curriculum they gave me the dual program is about 11-14 credit hours per semester for 3 years.

I personally don't know because I was given a two-year assistantship & tuition waiver for UNC Charlotte so i don't have to pay anything.

I didn't even KNOW about the dual program because it is really new, but they offered it to me (i am unofficially accepted to the urban design masters right now). Visiting the school definitely helped and since they really wanted me to go there, the director of the urban design program took me and another student around downtown Charlotte the day after the open house to show us the urban design studio and the city.


I personally think it's worth the money because my plan was to eventually get an urbanism degree of some sort but now I am doing it all at once.

----

the villain,
i like how you're describing rice. it seems like a lot of the not-ivies the students are all really happy to be there and speak highly of their schools. at the ivies it seems to be a mixed bag of people that love it and people that hate it. but that is just my impression. congrats on finally making a decision!

Hey All,

Final Summation;

UofM BS Arch Undergrad

UCLA - in
MIT - in
Yale - in
Columbia - in
Princeton - out
GSD - out

I'm originally from LA and i knew I didn't want to go back there if I didn't have to, so that ruled out ucla. I went to all the open houses last week. I didn't like the energy at Yale. That narrowed it down to MIT and Columbia for me. After much agonizing over this decision I'm 95% positive that I'm going to go to Columbia. I loved the energy, diversity and general excitement there. MIT is amazing but I feel that its extremely small size is limiting in terms of diversity of classes and faculty. Also, the studio space felt relatively anesthetized in comparison to the other studio spaces I saw. I would be interested in hearing opinions about either school though....since we have until thursday to decide. (yikes that was fast!)

Thoughts?

greetings everyone!

as this thread comes around full circle, i wanted to ask those who have made their final decisions to please post their info here:

http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=96972_0_42_0_C

your input is much appreciated. thanks for sharing :D

As I'm about to go post my final decision in the thread bird mentioned above me, I wonder if anyone feels the way I do about making their decision. It's such a difficult decision between Sci-Arc, UT Austin, UPenn, and CCA for so many reasons. I feel like making the decision is more of me coming to terms with the fact that I'm actually saying yes to one and no to three, as theres no way for me to know exactly which is the perfect one to choose.

I'd say UT Austin will be the hardest to say no to. The current students, prospective students, and faculty I met at the open house, the program, the City of Austin, the affordability, the opportunities... it is such a good program, and I would loved to have said yes to them.

The commitment of my decision will be so difficult, but I know I would *love* to go to any one of the four on my list and when I get there, I'll be glad I made the commitment I did.

I'm choosing Sci-Arc. I'll see you all in Downtown LA.

@guyforget You're lucky you live in Berkeley! I whine all the time about how much I want Cheeseboard and Ici. I envy you, though I'm planning a visit there in May and plan on eating everything. hahaha.

I was incredibly close to applying to Berkeley- I already had my GRE scores sent there, but my professor and I discussed it further and I realized that I wanted a new adventure - a new location, new courses, new ideas and new faculty. My desire for newness aside, I would have loved to attend Berkeley again. I don't envy your decision- you have some great schools to choose from!

And yes, I'm pretty much set on Penn! =) Adventure, indeed! I've never been on the east coast longer than 2 days...

psheldahl_ not sure if you're still on this thread, but thanks for posting your portfolio and final decision info. wow! your portfolio wins! i can only hope to be half that accomplished at the ripe age of 36, which is only 8 more years for me. really amazing work. and so much pizzaz and style! i haven't been excited about seeing a portfolio in a while.

thanks for yet another inspiration awakening!!! best wishes to you. gsd is super lucky to have you. also, it's nice to see someone know themselves well enough and be so secure as to put all their eggs in one basket. really amazing! thanks, again.

ps. everyone should take a look at his portfolio! it made me want to throw up, like a nervous stomach when something way too exciting happens. absolutely disgusting! :)

villain-

thanks for your thoughtful response :)
I actually live in the Middle East, so I won't be nearby Rice anytime soon.

I think the points you brought up are actually very important... I've heard of GSAPP as a machine, churning out work, little time to think- just create, create, create. I definitely see the value of being able to pause and contemplate. (actually, this would be perfect for me, cuz I love thinking more than actually creating!)

HOWEVER, images speak louder than words, and at the end of the day architecture IS the visual thing, especially selling to your clients... I mean, if the thing LOOKS good/sophisticated/what have you, isn't that the MOST important thing?

I mean, I can justify crap (as many artists have done, like Piero Manzoni who sold his bottled feces), but at the end of the day I'd rather be able to paint like Da Vinci.

ugh bird i have to repost my list?

okay fine I'll do it.

For me, it's down to UCLA, Columbia (MSRED), or reapply for next year. I am probably going to decide on April 15th, lol.

I pretty much concur with what thevillain says. Intelligence-wise I would say that there is a wider range than the top 5 program students because obviously it is less competitive and lower profile, but there are certainly a large number who are very intelligent and highly competitive with those programs' students. I found this to be especially true for the incoming class.

Word2Bird...

Thank you for your kind words, really nice of you.....it gets easier to make a portfolio if you have 10 years of work to distill from. I was a little hesitant to post it, but thought it may help other 'older' applicants in the future.

The story started 2 years ago when my wife and I applied to the GSD and Yale. I was accepted at Yale and rejected at the GSD, she got into both. While I actually prefer Yale, there were a few issues that kept us from going. First, we purchased a condo back in 2006 and the market was such that we could not sell it for what we paid and we could not rent it for what our mortgage was. Real world issues, as you can see. This, accompanied with my wife getting almost a full ride at the GSD, left us staying in Cambridge for her complete her degree first, with me planning to apply once she finished. This is where I am at now.

I would not say that I am secure enough to put all my eggs in one basket, as you say. I was almost indifferent. If I got it, great. If not, I move on and continue practicing architecture. Since most of the issues with the condo still exist today, the GSD was really the only place that I was willing to drop 60K on and not have to deal with moving / selling / relocating.

So what was different this time around? Not much, except a slight re-arranging of my portfolio. This may sound silly, but I met with Silvetti to ask him about what I can do better when I re-apply. He said that he remembered my application and the committee thought I "ripped off a firm's work". I was quite floored, since everything in my portfolio was touched by me directly. Maybe not "only" be, but I never presented work I did not have a heavy hand in and I give credit when it is due. I have been the principal designer at my firm for the last 9 years when Beth left.

Anyway, he simply said that if I reverse the chronology (i.e. my first portfolio started with the 'latest' work and ended with my academic work) it would be much more convincing and everyone can see the common thread between academic works and professional works. This is all I did different. Was that the only factor, probably not. Sometimes it just takes a little luck, as I have stated before.

Good luck with your MArch education wherever it takes you. I am looking forward to jumping back into the academic environment. It will be strange, I must confess.

adrasteia: I'm coming in with a 4 year BS Architecture degree from University of Texas at Arlington. I wasn't able to talk to Hitoshi Abe personally, but we were able to pick the brains of a few professors, and they were all very helpful and friendly.

I guess I better post in word2bird's thread, cause I just sent my UCLA confirmation in yesterday!

psheldahl_ great story. i really appreciate you sharing, since yes, there is often a lack of voices in the 30-35+ age range on this academic thread. i understand that many are hesitant to post online, specially when it comes to the portfolio so i value you being up for it. also, i think that the chronology definitely helped out since the work just got more and more impressive from academic to professional, which seems like the natural flow of things... while luck certainly plays a role in the m. arch decisions, i think you really deserve it in your case. best to you and your wifey!

by the way all, i started that other thread so that future m. arch applicants can have a quick reference of our [2010 applicants] outlines. obviously, it's much easier to look through that vs. this thread which is likely to grow to over 50 pages... thanks to everyone who has contributed and been open to sharing thus far. really cool.

Zephyr, still digesting my response! but I hear what you are saying. I did sit in on Lindsay's sustainability talk... more to come, good meeting you by the way, happy to hear about your decision on Wash U., overall a very impressive program... consistent quality of work was staggering


Hayelle,

I live above Ici! lol... probably don't love it as much as others since I suffer from ice cream mania noise pollution, but great location. I was at Wurster again yesterday poking around, really love it. Who were some of your favorite teachers? Mark Anderson is leading the fall core studio for us newbies...

Good luck with Penn. I was looking through their student work brochure today that a friend who was also accepted procured. Pretty intense!

Guyforget,

I'm sure the crowds at Ici must be grating after awhile, but that neighborhood in general is wonderful (noise/traffic aside)! My attempt to find adequate Meyer-Lemon ice cream (like Ici's) here in LA has been a massive failure.

Does mentioning fall studio mean you have decided to attend Berkeley? I had Mark Anderson for my last studio and he actually wrote one of my recs! He's great- really funny, very relaxed (as least in comparison to Lisa Iwamoto...). He brought up some great community issues for us to consider and I thought he was relatively helpful in assisting me when I was trying to further develop my concepts. He is pretty obsessed with beautiful images - I don't think he could have stressed any more fervently how important beautiful images are. His emphasis on it always made me feel like we were all being rather shallow, but of course, that's the way the game's played... Overall, I think he leads a studio where you need to be very independent in managing your time and your project. He definitely won't be hovering over you, pushing ideas and deadlines onto you.

Lisa Iwamoto was a strong studio professor; she brought up a lot of concepts and approaches to design that I hadn't even considered. I don't think I've ever been so stressed out during any other studio, though. She definitely expects a lot from her students.

As for non-studio professors- I think Gail Brager/Chris Benton were fantastic when they taught my environmental management class. Everything made so much sense when they explained them. I also attended one lecture given by Dana Buntrock and thought she was a great speaker - I learned an amazing amount in the one lecture she gave and had hoped to take an actual class from her, but was never able to. Anthony Dubovsky is wonderful- in visual arts, at least. He is warm, funny and very encouraging, in terms of developing creativity and an eye for art.

Thanks for the luck! I'll definitely need the luck... studio aside, I need luck in dealing with the cold weather! The idea of snow and having to wear so much clothing is rather baffling...

It's been nearly a week since the last post on gradcafe...those of you who are still waiting have schools given you any indication of when the final 'wave' of notifications will come?

The results are,

MIT, in
UCLA, in
Pratt, in with money
Harvard, in on the waiting list
Princeton, out
Yale, out
Penn, out

Over the course of the past week, I've had the chance to check out MIT, Pratt, and UCLA. I was able to attend the open house and MIT and absolutely loved it. The opportunities available there seem amazing, but like LaAaCi mentioned, i'm a little worried about the studio spaces. Everyone is crammed in there and its really compartmentalized. The MediaLab is also amazing but it seems a bit difficult to access. UCLA has a very open studio and the shop is accessible at all times.

Im from the midwest and the west coast seems like its a bigger departure from that than the east coast. I feel like the faculties are both strong, and the students have been great from both schools. This is going to be a really tough decision!

Dear :

I am writing to inform you that you have been placed on a waiting list for
admissions to the Master of Architecture, first professional degree program.
We will notify you as soon as a final decision about your application has
been made.  These final decisions are usually made around the end of our
Spring Term in May or early June.  This is currently an unranked waiting
list, so there is no rank order at this time.  If you have any further
questions, please contact the admissions office at (310) 825-0525.  Thank
you for your patience and your interest in our program.

Sincerely,

Jim Kies
Admissions Officer
Department of Architecture and Urban Design    

oops, forgot to mention this was for UCLA M.Arch I

it's the only response i have heard since the "application is complete" email a while back.

any ideas on the chances of getting off the WL for ucla?

I just gave up a spot....so there's definitely a chance!

So after the Cornell Open House, I've decided to go to GSAPP. I officially accepted their offer as well as declined Pratt GAUD and Cornell AAP. I will post my findings on the Cornell Open House on the school blog shortly.

m2p_ i received the same email from ucla today. i'm going to respond back either later today or tomorrow saying i've made my decision and will be enrolling at berkeley, so any potential openings may go to you. who knows? if it's your first choice, i think someone on the thread recommended possibly sending them a letter explaining why you would be a good fit and your genuine interest in their program, maybe even include another recommendation. anyway, i have no idea how waitlists work, but i'll be rooting for you.

finally, here's my final tally:

in = berkeley, risd, sci-arc, cca and umich
waitlist = ucla
out = mit

i'm obsessed with this blog and can't go a day without posting, so i'm sure most folks already know that i'm berkeley bound :D

@pathygoras, hey, did u make a decision on the studio? can you PM me your email? we can talk more thru emails if you like?

Has anyone been notified of their standing on the waitlist at Georgia Tech? They are supposed to begin notifying people this week...

Tyler, good meeting you too man. I didn't mean to sound too harsh earlier. So you thinking Berkeley then?

@Bandit003 Called Ga-Tech last week to find out my place on the waitlist. I havent heard fom them yet. Trying to remain patient. Hope to hear great news soon.

I've officially given up my acceptance at MIT with half tuition + 10K to attend the GSD this fall as M.Arch I AP.

good luck to those on the waitlist!

@ranveli - This is kind of late but here's the posting on Cornell's Open House! ---

As this is the initial year of accreditation, I believe that Cornell is working on making a lot of changes. Specifically, in a morning meeting on the second day, the Chair of the Architecture Department, Dagmar identified their hopes of adding a Berlin semester (2nd Year) into the mix and shuffling around the lineup of studios so that the students have a lot more off campus experiences. Additionally, the traveling studios they mentioned (Turkey, Istanbul, Puerto Rico) which I believe are required...sound really amazing! While some of these changes may not initially apply to me as an AP student, I think it is one of the most influential moves the school could make. Dagmar seems to be the catalyst for the program and is definitely on track with keeping the changes coming. In talking with a professor there, the hope is that the students of this years class are what makes Cornell a real competitor for that number one ranking in Design Intelligence. Individually, many have spoken of the accepted students this year as being a very promising, talented and passionate group. If it's diversity of studios you are worried about, I believe that you'll be able to find it at Cornell.

In terms of diversity of classes at Cornell in general...I went there undergrad and four years wasn't enough for me to take every single class I wanted...there is a huge amount of diversity regarding that...and they all can tie into what you are doing with your studios. You just have to be really proactive and track down those classes...because literally anything you want to learn is there (I'm going to take a music composition/DJing class!)

They encourage the student to guide her own experience...that being said, as far as being conservative, Cornell impresses me with the ability of the students to be outward thinking yet know how to theorize on concepts and put a really interesting project together. I would say that yes, the FORMS I saw in the student work were somewhat conservative but, the students actually had a reason for every form made, every beautiful structure: and that is a quality that I personally find appealing. In contrast with other programs where the focus is so strongly put on the computational realm of how far can we go with blob/form making --- Cornell has a very cerebral approach. The emphasis I heard from current students was that you make the program what you want it to be: so if you want to go with some crazy Zaha inspired theatrics of form, you can do that...you'll just have to have a damn good, highly thought out reason to be doing it.

I'm heading to Cornell in the fall! So there will be a spot at SCI-Arc and RISD opening up later on this week... :D Congrats to Everyone!

I'm heading to UCLA in the fall!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feel free to link up with me before-hand. I'm very excited to meet my 3-year studio-mates.

Congratulations to everyone! And good luck next year!

See you at the GSD Praxis...I just dropped my 750 deposit for MArchII. *** Cough.

I can't believe it's the decision day and I'm asking this, but is anyone out there going to Columbia having received no scholarship money? I'm having a real hard time justifying accepting my place there if I'm going to accrue that amount of debt, especially since I'd be using loans for my living expenses too. On the other hand, Columbia is my heart's desire. Any thoughts?

ecarob- I am. But I am in the MSAAD program, so i only have to pony up three semesters of cash. I also have a sugar momma that I am dragging with me to pay for my housing. I hope to attain a TA position this fall/ next spring. Good luck deciding! This was a tough decision for me as well. But i love what I do and am excited to be going back to school.

ecarob- I gave up my spot at gsapp with a small scholarship. to me it's just not worth it, but I've been working in the field for a few years now, so I have a different perspective than someone without a background.

villian- remind me, where are you going instead?

rice, opt 2.

ecarob
i say follow your bliss

Oh btw I gave up a spot at Penn with $5 grand to anyone who's waiting..

Seeking a little advice. HAs anyone accepted a spot, then found out they got into a school that they would prefer more? Is it ok to tell the first school that you've changed your mind, even when there's a deposit involved? I mean, it's my own money that I'm forfeiting, right, they can't hunt me down for it. Has anyone done this/heard of it happening?

Ga Tech Waitlisters,

I talked to the lovely Robin Tucker yesterday to find out about their decisions, and because of many people extending their acceptance deadline, they wont be notifying people until Monday. Hope this helps.

I am trying to decide between Cornell and Upenn.

Upenn accepted me 1 year March2 program and Corrnel 2.5 year March1 AP program.

I want to study longer however i am not so sure the March quality of Cornell. Upenn has really great Prof.s like Leatherbarrow, Ali Rahim, Cecil Balmond on the other side Cornell has practicing architects in their studio. Most of people says Cornell teaches traditional arch. which is a kind of old stff. They are also not very sure how often practicing architects comes to the studios for critics. my prof. says that don't fall for the fancy architects names like OMA, Rem Koolhaas. They come to their studio only once or twice in one semestre.

Upenn is more digital and focusing more on future systems. If i would be accepted to Upenn's 2 years/3 years March 1 program I would definetly go there. However I am not sure in this situation. Upenn is good in digital design and the last year program of March 1 and March2 has the same curriculum.

I haven't learn anything about digital design in my previous school. So in Upenn my works can look very slow and basic in digital design while studying with March1 students.

I am so worried. I need more help. I am an international std. Please help me :)

Sounder
that's fine. some people even pay two deposits if they can't make up their mind. you'll lose your money, just notify the school if you change your mind.

any thoughts on Sounder's hypothetical, but sans the deposit? how rude is it to stiff a program that only requires a verbal commitment by the 15th?

thanks for the heads up bird & laaaci
i'll be sending a letter early next week to ucla.

also, i declined my acceptance to sci arc. power to the waitlisters!

delirious,

I'm not sure what you're background is, but there's a definite difference between an M.Arch I and an M.Arch II -- I haven't heard of many people who are deciding between different programs at different schools.

The M.Arch I is an accredited degree (well, at Cornell it will be soon), which means you'd be able to become licensed in America.

The M.Arch II degree is a post-professional program intended for people who already have Bachelors degrees in architecture.

Just accepted my place at Columbia, freeing up spots at SCI-Arc and UT, for anyone waiting on the list!

hey everyone, this is really last minute, but i am getting increasingly worried about choosing where to get an M.Arch. does anyone have any thoughts about Rice (full ride) vs. the GSD (some grants)? i want to teach but may also get a phd...

i realize both are great programs...just not sure about which one is right for me at the moment.

@ word2bird - you mentioned that only half of the M.Arch 3 students made it to the second year in Berkeley? woah. Did the school cite the reasons for the students dropping out of the program? And did they drop out totally? Or was it a transfer to a different program elsewhere? I suppose these students are eligible to apply to an Option 2 in whichever school has it. One year is more than adequate to determine if the program dovetails with your professional ambitions, so I reckon there could be some students who decided that a different school's program would be more suitable for them after a year at Berkeley. I certainly hope the students didnt leave their studies cus of financial problems, which is a real problem for many of us here.

@ mitboi - Its UT for me...anyway, i will be sending you an email and we can probably correspond via email then. have you decided? SCI-Arc? GSAPP? GSD? Or Berkeley? Pratt has an amazing program too, though it's extremely costly for an int'l student.

@cl24
last week i was speaking to a professor at a top school for guidance in my decision and was speaking to him about whether the gsd is worth it. he used your exact situation as an example: he said he may be inclined to tell someone who got into rice with a full ride, since they often do that, to go over the gsd without all the money, but he said in reality he really believes the gsd is the one school where it is worth it. you just have to leverage the gsd and harvard itself.

that said, its hard as hell to say no to free tuition. that wasnt my situation, but i did turn down a somewhat significantly better offer at another school, and i'll be at the gsd in the fall, squeezing as much out of my grants as possible.

the prof also told me he doesnt believe that you cant make good money in architecture. i really think this whole profession is about the approach and giving yourself as much credit as possible without seeming arrogant or snobby. rather, just be confident and dont settle for things if you truly believe you are worth more. because when it comes down to it, all of us ARE worth more. hope that helps...

@jive

thanks for your advice! i really appreciate it. i suppose grant aid doesn't increase over the years? if you don't mind my asking, what factors made the gsd appeal to you the most?...though i am not sure i can justify the 100k difference between the two schools (even with gsd grants).

pythagoras_ i mispoke about that drop out statistic. i think i may have just received mixed information during the open house and jumped to conclusions. apparently, last year's incoming class for the m. arch, option 3 program was really small. so probably only a couple people dropped. i sometimes misread into things...

anyway, i just submitted my official decline to umich. i almost forgot to send it too...i guess it's past the deadline est. how rude!

cl24, i think the main thing that made me accept the gsd was that i found the faculty to be much more open than i expected, i kinda dug the crits, the students were all nice, and i think the trays simply fit my personality a bit more. in other words, i dont want to be in a small room at 2am working on some shit with only one other person around me.

most importantly, though, i dont have a design background, and i think that the amount of exposure i will get at the gsd to other more experienced students will really be beneficial. i also looked through the class list and was really excited about some of the stuff in there. i guess there are a lot of things i like about it.....!