peedy, i like your swagger

Ugh. All this does is show how disconnected Archinect users are from 95% of architecture schools and students. The NAAB, through AIAS, long ago began shifting down the road where this would become the norm and so it has at more than half of our schools of architecture. After the 2011 accreditation cycle there will be no more than a handful of schools where strong policies don't exist limiting or frowning upon the all-nighter.

hahaha. i bet a LOT of archinect users are students in those schools, speedy. i was teaching as recently as '05 and the all-nighter culture had definitely not gone away at our school then - and i really doubt it has now. (and, no, i didn't encourage it as an instructor. seemed to come from the students...)

I don't know what school this is, but I like what they're saying. They may also be covering their asses, but it no one on this site can say that that is bad advice. I go to a school where at least 25% of the students frequently pull all nighters. Just the other day a female friend of mine was commenting on how easy the last term was because she ONLY had to pull ten all nighters. This is shear madness. I would be happy for my faculty to start cracking down on this self destructive behaviour.

yeah

fuck bitches
get money

all nighters aren't worth spending on architecture if you know what i mean

i agree that it's dangerous for people to drive when they are tired. from personal experience, i find it to be safer driving drunk than tired. the trouble is that people can be tired at all hours and limiting building access has no way of preventing that.

for me, the bigger question is why do students have cars? the whole point of a campus is to have a place for dedicated study. there's really no reason that any student should be any further than a short walk from a dorm room.

"Holistically well-rounded people?? Name me ONE GOOD architect who was a holistically well-rounded person.

Who put such a premium on being normal? Where is the relationship between being "normal" and producing good architecture? Everyone who gives half a shit about architecture knows what it takes, and to deny one the CHOICE of going there on one's own discretion is ludicrous."

1) You first statement is clearly as worthless as a Citigroup share.

2)Its not an issue of 'normal' - its an issue of HEALTHY. Its an issue of conscience which in our culture becomes and issue of money (through legality).

3)Lets take your last statement, bereft of non-bullshittery as it is, and review the whole of the profession, the industry and the education:

I AWAIT THE GREAT REVOLUTION YOUR BELOVED LINE TOWING SHALL BRING TO THE WORLD AS YE GREAT DESIGN STUDENTS (and sometimes professionals) DEPRIVE YOURSELVES OF HEALTH, RESPONSIBILITY AND BASIC TIME MANAGEMENT IN THE NAME OF YOUR *GREAT* VISION!

Please. Please. Please.
Not one school is teaching their students to work smarter vs working harder. I don't think they know how - too wrapped up in the university as a money making business. Sure its fun to throw off your bourgie heritage and go rogue in the 'Name of Architecture' - but the fact remains that in school you have shit ideas because you don't know shit and you won't really *know* shit until you've been working for a while when you can see for yourself the issues of living which make all your all-nighters and cliquish 'only the strong survive!' mentality a pale imitation of ACTUAL choice.

I don't really recall getting much accomplished during all-nighters. Mostly did it to get a model finished. Would glue a piece on and then BS for the next half hour waiting for it to dry. Right before last call we'd walk to the local tavern for a drink and then go back to "work" in studio. After a while our sleep deprivation would get the best of us and people would start goofing off 100% of the time. It was a lot of fun, but was not productive at all.

The Architecture all-nighter is a college scene no different from the kegger house party. Both have very little to do with actual education/student work, but leave us with fond memories when we are busting our asses in the "real world."

Similar thing happened at UH during my undergrad. Admin decided to shut the builidng down from around 11p-6a during the last week of one semester all because of behavior issues in the wee hours of the night. Semester after that fire marshal comes in and says no more sleeping or living in the building; so everyone who had little studio huts set up had to dump their couches, beds, etc. And there really was people who had no other place to go since they had basically decided to use the arch college as their home.

disinfect, I'd love to challenge you crudely on this, but my professional propriety prevents me from doing so.

So I'll just state the obvious: that your post is offensive, obnoxious too, and immature.

liberty bell - set the hounds on him. Why else on earth did I buy you Secret Lair™ before the bubble burst?

I forgot, I needed to find work as a hound : )

Also, I agree with the many here saying that even if this is a CYA move by the administration, it is also good advice. A little late night studio culture is fun and important, but when it comes to bragging rights for being more hardcore than thou it's just dangerous.

Thankfully I always just walked the two blocks back to my dorm after all nighters - never drove.

Not one school is teaching their students to work smarter vs working harder. I don't think they know how...

peridot your paragraph that begins with the above sentence is spot on. If schools want to teach their students to be more right brain, working smart instead of blindly following the profession's traditions is a good starting point.

Id say cut down of studio - How many schools require 3 hour studios 3 days a week for little credit hours? How much of that studio time is wasted on blathering from some 30 year old never been employed adjunct? Theres your wasted time folks right there.

what school is this? i want to transfer there.

working all the time, and not sleeping much, really sucks.

then again, i get an average of 6-7 hours of sleep per night and that already makes me extremely tired and unhappy.

word...that statement caught my eye too.

by the time i reached grad school, i definitely altered my approach to working. for me, it became about maximizing my talents to quickly produce good work. in my opinion, if there exists any true perversity in arch school it that people seem to be judged/graded more on their efforts to sacrifice themselves rather than the actual quality of their work.

thankfully, i'm done with it.

that's another good idea. studio time could definitely be cut. it was three 4 hour sessions per week when i was in school. it was somewhat flexible...but you still felt like you had to be there. i think one group session per week & an appointment with studio critique/week could work just as well.

Again, it is the dogma of the money making university coupled with the 'wizard' like narrative of typical design education that enforces an academic culture which is missing the mark.

To clarify: my ultimate dream is to be a design professor, and eventually a dean. I hold it in such high esteem I invest most in being critical of myself AND of the culture so that when I have my chance to contribute I do so in the most honorable way I can.

It is not honorable to continue encouraging this kind of 'educational' swamp. As much as I admired my professors (they are the only heroes I have ever had) I have come to see that they were much to comfortable. We were all sloppy.

Puddles - I think that format is interesting. The issues is usually a professor's theoretical position on horizontal/vertical studios.

I would prefer meeting 2 hours 3 times a week in a 'horizontal' studio, and 2 hours twice a week in *SMALL* 'vertical' groups.

It would also really require reviewing the accredited curricular flow.

Another issue is the job vs career vs 'life' situation.

like puddles, i also worked out my martyrdom approach to studio work in undergrad so by grad school i was a monk, getting onto campus at 5am before anyone else with a hot red-eye and flipping that light switch is bliss. by the time anyone else shows up, you're already well into your work and just roll. i'm of the type that can easily run on 4-5 hours of sleep for too many nights in a row and usually catch up on the weekend but kept myself eating well and excercising during those long days so i didn't freak.

you have to realize how you work best, once i knew my own 'best' i only had to pull all-nighters when a computer ate files, hard drives died, plotter lines were long, or to add a final layer of polish to a project before the crit the next day.

it's not healthy, but it is what it is... i wouldn't change it for anything. whether or not you deny someone access to a studio for 4 hours a night will not determine that persons output... suck it up and adapt. close the shops and power tools... no questions asked and no exceptions.

fuck it, an 18 year old can die serving this country.... suddenly we're worried about a world-wide epidemic of sleep deprivation among architecture students?

Architecture and the design process is inherently inefficient and everyone knows that. The best practitioners should be capable of tapping into those time blocks where they are most creative and where they're most productive. Sometimes those mesh together and sometimes they don't. I don't agree with insisting that you're not committed to architecture if you're not physically wasting away for it.

But pulling all-nighters repeatedly says more about that person's inability to manage their time than commitment to architecture. Yes there is reason studio requires more hours than the creative writing class you take. That also doesn't mean simply because you're pulling all-nighters every week before a pin-up means that you are more committed to architecture than the person who can come in and get their work done. I saw a lot of studio mates in undergrad who didn't work, took the minimum amount of credits needed for the semester, and yet somehow still couldn't get their shit done and pulled lots of hours and all-nighters in studio. Many of them eventually got out of architecture.

I didn't have parents footing the bill for my education so I had to work part-time while taking fully loaded schedules and still putting my time in during studio. I pulled long nights but an all-nighter was reserved for the finals. Grad school was much the same way. But I was working 30hrs a week managing 2 projects at the firm I worked at, doing a fully loaded schedule, long hours in studio and then heading home late at night and still was able to renovate my house on the weekends. It forced me to prioritize and effectively manage my time and it also wore me down. All-nighters were reserved for weekends if I had to and for finals. Were I to do it all over again...I would have chosen the luxury of not working but a mortgage and other life-responsibilities didn't allow that luxury.

And as for staying the latest at a firm to "prove" you're worthy of your job reflects poorly on the firm that cultivates that idea that some how face time implies productive work time. Quality not quantity.

"fuck it, an 18 year old can die serving this country.... suddenly we're worried about a world-wide epidemic of sleep deprivation among architecture students?"

Another issue of conscience but this is a false equivalency. A person who elects to enter into a very risky future in the name of service is a FAR cry from someone who makes a purchase only to be subjected to a decay model of 'rigor' which as whole lacks the reflective, evolving nature of the individual.

I agree - the rigor is VERY important. I disagree that current models are 'the best' or 'the only way' or anything other than familiar, suburban dreams of competitive celebrity.

"It forced me to prioritize and effectively manage my time and it also wore me down. All-nighters were reserved for weekends if I had to and for finals"

These choices don't need to be made if you have everything at your fingertips anytime you want and almost any way you want.

My office recently cut our hours - going from 8 - 10 hours days to 6 weekly has done amazing things for our production. Less time to make money means less time to waste, means: making smarter choices.

I agree the strain of school is tough, but it isn't something you can put a timeframe on. If you are a perfectionist or care about your design, you'll work until it is to a level you like. Sometimes that's quick, other times it isn't.

Productivity is a different thing. Design is something you can't necessarily do quicker, but cranking out drawings, renderings, etc., is.

Personally, I found ways to design more effectively and be more productive, but it took a long time to find that balance.


Also, I'd argue that some of the best ideas are reached through a charrette.

Much just comes down to how badly you want sometime (look at the schedules of the top CEO's). If you don't put the time in, there is always someone who will.

Well, unless students start working at home, student projects at that institution will be sorely lacking in the maximum development and exploration of Architecture that their projects deserve.

Frankly, Architecture schools should be providing temporary sleeping quarters for studios (in the very least a floor mat for each student). All the talk about the Architecture Culture and Architecture in culture is dependent on creating cohesive bonds between students of Architecture. The all-nighter is an important method for discussing and exploring concepts not necessarily addressed during classes or regular studio hours. Ultimately, it is dependent upon the students who so choose to begin building associations and relationships with one another in school. Yet, it is the school's responsibility to foster what Louis Kahn provided for in his Salk Institute, the concept of incidental interactions between users of the facility.

Especially, with the paradigm that technology poses to the practice of Architecture, schools should be re-examining spatial possibilities in their own spaces with regard to demands from the users and their tools. No longer are parallel rulers, t-squares, and clunky desks necessary in every studio. With advancements in technology, the very process of creating built space comes into question.

"A person who elects to enter into a very risky future in the name of service is a FAR cry from someone who makes a purchase only to be subjected to a decay model of 'rigor' which as whole lacks the reflective, evolving nature of the individual."

it IS far cry but that's the intent as i enjoy a sudden thrust during conversation.

I am not saying that there are not absurd academic practices out there (as mentioned in this thread) that abuse snot nosed slapdick students already unmotivated because dad already has a benz and mom has weekly botox... rigor is exactly what makes anyone worth a shit...it's the equator...let's pat everyone on the ass, give them a trophy then take them for milkshakes.

i don't see the link between "suburban dreams of celebrity" and pursuing architecture via a purchased education, with rigor either present or not. I waged war on celebrity and suburbia through my education... education for me was about enhancement not fucking status OR celebrity... the damn thing i (and most others i have been in school with) wanted out of my work was honesty and authenticity... and whether you like it or not, we're all just trying to be the "celebrity" we see inside ourselves and for us 'creative's that involves an insane amount of toil... some have to temper themselves against that toil in order to arrive at valid conclusions... be they architecture, art, or other.

you change the education, you change the type of architects that education makes.

I'm not sure what schools you guys are talking about. I've completed a ton of work this week alone. We have never had these keg parties in the studio. I've taken in a couple beers on the hush hush to wind down, but no wild keg parties where no one is working. No one goes into studio unless they're planning on doing work. It is actually quite quiet. I do usually go in during the day though, because it seems more productive for me (I think the sunlight makes me feel like I have plenty of time), but I have no problems discussing Architecture with the students at any time of night or day. I really am not sure if you guys are exaggerating, but where I attend, its 95% Architecture related work in the studio, and a healthy environment. I don't mind spending a lot of time in there. I enjoy it. It is not stressful at all to me, because it is something I like to do. I feel like if you enjoy something, it's hard for it to be unhealthy.

there were two people I knew at MIT who literally slept every other night. And no, I wasn't one of 'em....

The chair of this school has been "cracking down" on a number of safety issues.

No coffee pots in studio (there's an eating area/coffee machine in the building at a specific location).

Cannot leave extension cords plugged in while not in use.

The list goes on.

Most students are resilient and learn to adjust. And, I must admit, this chair is turning tables, restructuring programs and upping the prestige. The chair is cut-throat and won't put up with laziness and mistakes.

It sounds like a strict regime, but given the previous political/organizational mess, it's a breath of fresh air.

Architecture students learn to adapt and continue to design. Creativity will not be suppressed...

I learned Revit, and that ended the all-nighters - - - until I started working in architecture "nobody leaves until we post"

As the Dean of my school once said " it's work if you would rather be doing something else"

is this a private school?

no, public

Seriously guys, what the f.? I do not think its the business of the school to be indulging in students' lives after class hours. Each person is different and everyone has a different style of working. People who want to work late will do so at home, if not at the studio.
During my undergrad, our studios would be locked, but a lot of us would pull all-nighters at home. It SUCKED to transport huge models back to school, for the students who did not have cars.
At grad school, our studios were open 24/7. Some 'organized' students would come in at 8, and leave by 8. Some would work till midnight. Some would work all night.
I think school is the only place where one can follow their own hours. Most workplaces I have worked at also allow the same kind of schedule, but well, its not the same at school. Those nighters were memorable!

some people need to push, fight and make. it's in their veins. if you close studio, it isn't going to solve the problems you guys have. we'll just assemble somewhere else where we're welcome.

Haha, at my school... my dean never even saw my face.

I was known as J106548273. Really. That or je8958443.

I feel like I missed out on something here.

Also, cowgill... education is wholly about status. You just have American noveau riche American emulation mixed up posh, prim and proper society.

Some of the best minds in the world are mouth-agape snobs with purchased education. Oh, hello there Charles Darwin.

That's kind of the point of formal education is to be "papered."

No coffee pot in the studio!? My God, that would have been the end of me! I think we had like 3-5 per studio, and they were used consistently.

Beer machine was a nice touch too.


I am with blackharp.

To be honest, I would guess that I'd be one that would all go live in some house and have all night parties for studio. No way I'd have learned as much on someone else's schedule, not to mention how dangerous it'd be driving not only drunk with exhaustion, but then finding prime parking, caring models and papers.


Plus, it's just a nice way of weeding out.

rockandhill, you are mixing metaphors.

anyway, if they are the best minds in the world who cares who pays the bill as long as they are educated. gods damned but i can't help but think that wealthy and uneducated smart people would be a bad thing.

now, dumb people buying degrees, like good ol 43, that is worthy of at least a little derision.

all-nighters? sure i did my share. i still do. don't see them as way to weed people out. i won't hazard a guess what it means for others but for me mostly i would say an all-nighter was/is evidence of poor time management - that was especially true in university where things were (let's face it) pretty easy, even when working on the side.

i did not spend much time in studio for grad school. i had child and wife at home and so i went home at 5 every day. this did not affect my grades, and i still got in more than enough socialising with classmates.

mixing metaphors how?

to Apurima, I go to U of M(anitoba), jump's alma matter (is that the right word? We're Canadian and I don't think we use that term...)


The national accreditation board arrived at my school yesterday, just in time for Ditchball (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNP4Fd7UaCM)! It's a day of extreme violence and drinking. Both start around 10am ;) It's the one day of the year that most students abandon studio and take the day off, which I think is healthy. The winters are COLD and LONG here, and well, you know how studio can be....

let's try that again: Ditchball!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNP4Fd7UaCM

you Canandians really come up with some boring shit when it's cold

Boring? When you're in the ditch, it's not so boring.

I think it woke me up out of my winter hibernation.

maybe not boring, just odd. i'm from the south so i guess i'm not keen to the hardcore winter scene.

With 6 month winters and days that reach -40 (celsius or fahrenheit, it's the same) on a regular basis, it's tempting to just stay inside all the time. Lots of skating (longest natural skating surface in the world here in Winnipeg), cross country skiing, snowshoeing...

You gotta do what you can to avoid getting depressed, going insane, and/or gaining 15 lbs. every winter.

jump - I was referring to beginning of undergrad. I'd say first semester at least 50% dropped out (due to the all nighters). Quite efficient, separates those that are in it seriously from those that think it is "cool". Then another 50% didn't make it past 2nd year, due to the infamous 'pin up'.

All nighters are not just about time management, they are about perfectionism and the belief that you can do better with more effort. At least that's how they were for me and my closer friends in school.

I redid projects after the semester were over and/or finished incomplete projects for my portfolio, competitions, etc.

Some didn't stay, and their work reflected that, with the exception of one or two people.

canadians also came up with basketball, so i guess maybe we can be forgiven (or not, depending on how you view the sport)...

i didn't do ditchball. not because it was boring but because i was busy doing other shit. not sure why anyone would feel compelled to dis it.


rockandhill, i was joking. it sounds like you are saying smart people are educated but don't actually learn anything because they pay for it with their smart-y money. and anyway their education is just a piece of paper. both of which are profoundly untrue, and frankly confusing.

I guess you mean to say that wealthy people buy their education and that for them it is just a paper. which is also shaky ground. not sure where dawin comes in, unless it is to say that you yourself are being weeded out of the running through no fault of your own. which is such an odd thing to admit.

If it all possible, the all-nighter should be avoided, but the CYA tone of this (and the no coffee pots rules) tends to indicate the lawyers are spooking the administration, which inevitably leads down the path to stupidity.

I used to teach at a university where, "on advice of council", a similar edict was passed regarding all-nighters. Since it was only meant as a legal maneuver and not a sincere effort to stop the students from staying up for days on end, it had zero effect.

Then the suits in "risk assessment" got nervous about a materials and methods class that included field trips to a concrete plant, a saw mill, and whatever construction sites where available. Too many sharp, heavy objects that could kill students, so the class morphed into something else without field trips.

There are two reasons for all-nighters: instructors giving too much work, or students not being efficient with their time. As I see it, a university can mandate one (workload) and only hope to influence the other. The original letter above seems to be attempting this, but in the typically stupid administrative manner (sending a terse email through the front office). Hold a faculty meeting, discuss it with the faculty and make it clear that a rigorous workload is one thing, but within reason. Have a separate meeting with the students and discuss these issues with them as well. Change the culture, especially with the faculty, since they are the ones that are there long-term.

some of us stay later and do more work than required to push the ideas harder. don't judge me.