This little glimmer of hope found it's way into my facebook inbox this morning and is slowly making the rounds... tah dah!
I urge you all to sign this petition and write to your local congress people about this issue... The economy is simply not going to be "stimulated" by bailing out the very same people who got us into this mess... it's time to reward the people who will actually make a contribution to society... not squander the governments money.
Congress is poised to spend nearly a trillion dollars on top of the $700 billion bailout from last September. While many parts of the pending bill (H.R. 1) will act to stimulate the economy, many parts of it simply won't. Tax rebate checks DO NOT stimulate the economy - history shows that people either spend such rebates on paying off credit card debt or simply saving it, doing nothing to stimulate the economy.
The Wall Street financial institutions, auto manufacturers and countless other irresponsible actors have received BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to bail them out of their self-created mess. This, too, does nothing to stimulate the economy. It merely rewards bad behavior and does nothing to encourage institutional change. There is a better way.
How many times have we heard from our leaders in Washington that education is the key to solving all of our underlying societal problems? For decades, Presidents, Senators and Members of Congress have touted themselves as champions of education, yet they've done nothing to actually encourage the pursuit of one on an individual level.
Some of us have taken advantage of the Federal Stafford Loan program to finance higher education, presumably with the understanding that an advanced degree equates with higher earning power in the future. Many of us go into public service after attaining such degrees, something that's also repeatedly described as something society should encourage. Yet, the debt we've accrued to obtain such degrees have crippled our ability to reap the benefits of our educations, causing many to make the unfortunate choice of leaving public service so as to earn enough money to pay off that debt.
Our economy is in the tank. There isn't an economist alive who doesn't believe that the economy needs stimulating immediately. The only debate now centers on how to go about doing it. While the current plan pending before Congress contains some worthy provisions, very little of it will have a significant and immediate stimulating effect on the economy. The Obama Administration itself doesn't expect to see a upsurge in the economy until mid-to-late 2010.
Instead of funneling billions of additional dollars to banks, financial institutions, insurance companies and other institutions of greed that are responsible for the current economic crisis, why not send that money directly to the people?
Cancelling student loan debt for people making under $150,000 per year would have an IMMEDIATE stimulating effect on the economy. Responsible people who did nothing other than pursue a higher education would have hundreds, if not thousands of extra dollars per month to spend, fueling the economy NOW. Those extra dollars being pumped into the economy would have a multiplying effect, unlike many of the provisions of the plan presently under consideration. As a result, tax revenues would go up, the credit market will unfreeze and jobs will be created.
2009 and the new Obama Administration is supposed to be about change. Nothing in the present economic stimulus package represents a significant departure from the way Washington has always operated - it's merely a different set of priorities on a higher scale, but it's certainly not materially different from any other economic stimulus package passed during the past few decades.
Washington cannot simply print and borrow money to get us out of this crisis. We The People, however, can get this economy moving NOW. All we need is relief from debt that was accrued under the now-false promise that higher education equates with higher earnings.
Free us of our obligations to repay Federal Stafford Loans and We The People will spend those extra dollars NOW.
If you believe that there's a better way of climbing out of this economic crisis, one that empowers We The People to directly spend money, start businesses, free up credit and create jobs, then please join this group and encourage others to do so as well.
There's strength in numbers - the more people to join this group, the louder our voices and the greater the chances of being heard by President Obama and Congress.
"Some of us have taken advantage of the Federal Stafford Loan program to finance higher education, presumably with the understanding that an advanced degree equates with higher earning power in the future"
What part of that says the government is responsible for you believing just because you went to architecture school your entitled to a good career? Can you hang a door? Fix a sink? Even change a tire?
No one forced you to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for your degree. why dont you instead go after your school for rolling back the 4 yr barch for licensure? Arent they the real culprits? What about those of us who chose to NOT play the education scam / game and take out massive debt? Why should we be diminished because you are debt? Is this what they teach in school now?
but isn't it more fair than giving the money to fat cats? look at it this, the money is going somewhere, it isn't like the choice is give the money away or save it.
so i'm against cancelling debt. that's ridiculous. however, load forgiveness for teachers, law enforcement and medical researchers is already possible.
I'd rather see student loans lessened than see people that naively paid a fortune for a 2nd home or severely over leveraged themselves get a free pass.
I pay my mortgage (and student loans), bills, etc., all on time.
But this looks like it will go this way because so many were so stupid. At least student loans enabled people to get better careers, contribute more to society, etc.
I'm with Evil P - any student loan forgiveness is a slap in the face to all of us that were responsible and didn't take out massive loans for an education that pays only a modest salary. By design I didn't go to the most expensive institution and I selectively sought out a 5 year BArch program over a much longer and more expensive MArch program. By my estimates I saved well over $20k in loans thanks to this....$50k+ if you consider "top tier" colleges.
The real anger should be at the universities that have increased tuition at double or more the rate of inflation. WTF is with that? They are the ones that screwed you over...but you still payed it, why?
I'm also at a loss of how forgiveness of a loan helps stimulate the economy. You say that a rebate doesn't stimulate anything because people "save" or "pay down debt" with it. How is this any different?
The only way for any stimulus payment to the public to be fair is if everyone gets it, including those of us that were responsible enough not to incur massive student loan debt.
Education is not a scam. But universities are irresponsible to continue to promote advanced degrees in programs that offer little chance at employment that pays enough that addresses loan debt. I am talking about phd's in the humanities. There are so few opportunities in academia for these graduates, yet the schools keep the assembly line running. Requiring a masters degree in architecture is ridiculous. It is a field that does not need this sort of education. It is one thing to get a masters on your own accord, but to be forced to take on the debt in a field that does offer the reciprocating wage is unethical.
I agree with trace + archmed but its complicated - as a renter looking at how the gov't keeps promising to bail out homeowners, it seems totally unfair. -didn't buy during the boom, I was at a fairly inexpensive state school! I don't see how a student loan bailout would be any different in terms of fairness. It might work better then homeowner assistance, a lot of people would have a couple extra hundred $'s to throw at the economy.
Fairness doesn't seem to be a factor in how the bailout has been going up to this point anyway, we're still only a little socialist.
The tangible object thing is weird though - You can foreclose on a house, you can't foreclose on your education... {even with bankruptcy, it's still in your head} I would stimulate the economy if my loans [modest as they may be] go away.
some of us worked our butts off to pay off our loans - translation, it's not fair.
well it's also not fair that i and others worked our butts off in school so we could get good jobs, only to have the gov screw us in the ass. is it fair i graduated with a 3.9 and i've been looking for a job for 8 months? i made responsible choices, i chose the state school, albeit a damn fine one, but i don't have mountains of ivy league debt. and it's not like everyone who accumulated school debt did it because they they thought they were going to get a handout. everyone expected to pay this back somehow - or at least they should. even if i wasn't one of those with debt i'd think this was a good idea, what better way to stimulate the economy than to give a break to those individuals seeking higher education to better themselves, their communities and their country? as i said before this money is going somewhere and no matter where it goes it's not going to be fair to some group. so we can reward and bailout the DC cronies, banks, irresponsible home buyers or we can bail out hard working professionals. this is a no brainer.
This has to rank right up there with the most idiotic convergence of stupid comments i have ever witnessed on this board. i am literally furious with some of the comments made here...
Yes, yes... you brilliant few... those of you who 'worked your ass off' and were 'responsible' by avoiding student loan debt really deserve a round of applause.
Us poor schmucks who had the luxurious option of A) Student loan debt, or B) no university, sure made the wrong choice.
what a moron ive been. Apparently, I just didnt pull hard enough on my boot straps while i was working 3 jobs year round all through my ugrad. I guess i just dont have the sheer will and determination Aqua and Evil have while working 35 hours a week and taking my 18 hours of class like everyone else... gee... i sure wish i hadnt of been so lazy...
you are bitter morons, and your absurd perversion of some john wayne-esque individuality is one of the biggest reasons our nation is fat, stupid and verging on bankruptcy...
i apologize for the vitriol in this post, but jesus christ this one really pissed me off...
the fact that you would sacrifice the greater good, because forgiving debt might somehow hurt your pride is, imo, disgusting...
i've written this many many times, but here goes again. representative democracy is not about you. it doesn't matter that you worked hard to pay off your student loans. it doesn't matter that you made a responsible decision with your mortgage. it doesn't matter that you pay your bills on time or that you never even bought a house. in a representative democracy, decisions are made that are in the best interest of the country as whole. not all legislation is going to be good and right for everyone.
not that i support the above proposed legislation, but let's stop talking about our own individual experiences. it's not relevant.
but i did live in a hovel and paid mine off as fast as i could because i didn't want to float through life w/ a debt i might not be able to pay if things turned south. i opted to get out of debt, not to look for a handout.
so please, enlighten me on how debt forgiveness is for the gerater good.
seriously, you're blaming responsible citizens for the reason the country is on he verge of bankruptcy? now that's hilarious.
ha ha...funny how those with who didn't get in the top (& typically most expensive) schools always try to rationalize their station by resorting to a moral argument of fiscal responsibility...truly amusing
somebody needs to stop accrediting all of these second-rate programs & their whiny graduates.
and for whatever it's worth, dick cheney was right when he said "deficits don't matter"...guns are all we need to have
this wont stimulate the economy anyway cuz if you have student loans you can't pay then you probably have other bills that the forgiven loan money would go to. because even though you are forgiven your five hundred dollar a month loan you probably arent going out and getting a bmw, you are probably paying your 20k in credit cards.
how bout allowing student loans to be taken into account when one declares bankruptcy? as of now, student loans are immune to this.. no bail(hand)out, and those who are in over their heads can take the hit the old fashioned way.
How about - like a lot of developed countries - university was free? I pay about $4000/yr for school in Canada, and I couldn't imagine paying $20,000+ per year for school. I just wouldn't do it, and that's a shame that the price of education keeps people away. As somebody coming from a working-class background, to me debt is a truly scary thing, unlike some of my friends who see university debt as just a part of the process.
Anyway, I'm blabbing. Other developed countries can do it, why not ours?
Student loans. They almost killed me. For me, nothing is worth all that. If I were to start over and didn't have the money to go to architecture school, I would wiat a while, work full time plus, save, and attend a good state school. Sound impossible? Try paying it off on the other end. It'll about kill ya.
As for canceling them as a way to stimulate the economy? I'm with holz.box on this one. How exactly would that work?
Lletdown, The school you chose was extremely exspensive. You could have gone 4 years for the price of one at a state school. I to worked 40 hours a week, often skipping school to work construction. Im not offended your pissed - but dont be pissed at me, be pissed at your school.
"...how bout allowing student loans to be taken into account when one declares bankruptcy?"
Heh heh. Yeah, the Gov thought of that one already... That is, that you might try to create your own little "student loan forgiveness program" via bankruptcy...
"the fact that you would sacrifice the greater good, because forgiving debt might somehow hurt your pride is, imo, disgusting..."
It wouldnt hurt my pride, it would hurt me competetively. I chose the cheapest route possible so I wouldnt have debt and would be able to start a business before I became old and grey. Debt forgiveness punishes me for those who didnt think this through. Fuck the common good, theres no such thing.
you can be a responsible citizen or a decent worker and still have student loan debt
lets not pretend that because someone chose a state school that cost less that that is in any way better than someone who took out student loans to go to school
there are many factors that go into choosing the school that suits you best
to think yours is the only way is stupid on your part
i went to an out of state school for my undergrad, worked 4 years while there, and still have a lot of loans
i chose an in state school for my grad, thus enabling me to only work when i wanted to, and still have less loans
anyone who thinks that since they worked 40 hours a week while in school makes you somehow better than someone who took out student loans is ridiculous and vice versa
no one deserves this stimulus, but it was a valid idea to give it to someone different than the big businesses again
of course, they could just give people $50,000 each, and let them do what they please, that way those with less student loans dont feel left out
First all, the bailouts are technically buy - ins, the government gets perffered stock and first rights in sales, liquidation and dividends. So its more like a long term loan so the comparison to debt forgiveness is ludicris.
As long as I can recoup what I paid for my education 15 years ago I am in with the plan. Otherwise I suggest you people start working harder to pay off those loans like the rest of us had to.
i think a distinction needs to be made between this being a proposal to help the economy vs people actually thinking they deserve their student loans being wiped out
it seems some people are getting testy because they have either already paid off their student loans or didnt have many in the first place
if you have student loans now, it doesnt necessarily mean you didnt work as hard in school or anything like that
if you dont have student loans now (because you worked through school or chose a less expensive school) it doesnt necessarily mean you are smarter or a harder worker
I'm always surprised that whenever a discussion starts on this board about student loans that there always seem to be a set of people who are completely unsympathetic to the fact that most people are quite young when they start taking out loans. At 18 or 20 or even 22, it's really hard to conceive of how hard it can be to make a dent in a loan repayment on an intern's salary. As a society, we seem to be willing to forgive all sorts of youthful indiscretions - except for those involving money.
Let me get this straight--someone held a gun to your head and made you take out those student loans? Someone made you decide the only school that would work for you was one that you couldn't afford. Wow!
I guess the government should bail you out!
Did you also incur credit card debt for spring break trips? and perhaps some travel abroad that was necessary to broaden your horizons? And for some new duds? Beer? Car money? Fraternities? other necessities?
I guess it is fair that those who didn't make those choices, won't benefit from your fine education, or who already fulfilled their obligations should dig a little deeper and help you out.
Anyway, you'll still get to feel superior when you slip on that Harvard sweatshirt.
Sorry for the sarcasm.
I think we are all learning the painful lessons that life isn't fair and expectations aren't entitlements. Many older folks scrimped and saved for years to build 401K retirement funds that shrunk before their eyes. Retirement is a rapidly vanishing dream. Employment is too.
I would be good if the government would freeze interest on student loans for those who are unemployed or underemployed but cancelling the principle is no different from cancelling the debt on my mortgage. We agreed to pay and we should do so. At least they can't take your education away from you if you fail to pay!
hey puddles, i opted for a "second tier" school because the trade-offs weren't acceptable to me. my "second tier" school was more than adequate to secure jobs in europe and seattle. so damn them, those poor "second tier" schools and their whiny, responsible alumni.
conversely (and obv. in your case) someone needs to stop accepting people into "top tier" schools that expect to get a gov't handout every time things get tough.
but dustin is correct, education should be free or greatly reduced. when i was in germany, the students put on a nationwide protest over a tuition increase of roughly $200 per semester. u.s. students routinely bend over and take it up the keester when their uni raises tution by a thousand per semester.
What do you "education should be free"? How is it free for anybody may I ask? Someone, somewhere is paying for the teachers, buildings and materials, somehow?
This is an interesting and obviously passionate discussion; I'm enjoying it.
4arch raised a very good point. Most students simply don't have a real idea how hard it is going to be to pay off student loan debt. I see this as a failing of the student loan suppliers AND the educational institutions.
Realistically: if someone sat an 18 year old down and showed them a chart with their chosen degree profession's typical salary along with typical cost of housing, groceries, car, utilities etc. AND $1,000/mo in student loan debt, I'd be willing to wager the number of people entering architecture school would be greatly reduced.
I'm not trying to be mean here: I'm in my 40s and can honestly say when I was 18 I had zero concept of cost of living. We all should be sure young students today know what they are facing when they sign that loan paper.
Cancel Student Loan Debt to Stimulate the Economy
This little glimmer of hope found it's way into my facebook inbox this morning and is slowly making the rounds... tah dah!
I urge you all to sign this petition and write to your local congress people about this issue... The economy is simply not going to be "stimulated" by bailing out the very same people who got us into this mess... it's time to reward the people who will actually make a contribution to society... not squander the governments money.
The petition can be found here:
SIGN ME!
and for those on Facebook, join the group and spread the word:
JOIN ME!
from the facebook group:
Congress is poised to spend nearly a trillion dollars on top of the $700 billion bailout from last September. While many parts of the pending bill (H.R. 1) will act to stimulate the economy, many parts of it simply won't. Tax rebate checks DO NOT stimulate the economy - history shows that people either spend such rebates on paying off credit card debt or simply saving it, doing nothing to stimulate the economy.
The Wall Street financial institutions, auto manufacturers and countless other irresponsible actors have received BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to bail them out of their self-created mess. This, too, does nothing to stimulate the economy. It merely rewards bad behavior and does nothing to encourage institutional change. There is a better way.
How many times have we heard from our leaders in Washington that education is the key to solving all of our underlying societal problems? For decades, Presidents, Senators and Members of Congress have touted themselves as champions of education, yet they've done nothing to actually encourage the pursuit of one on an individual level.
Some of us have taken advantage of the Federal Stafford Loan program to finance higher education, presumably with the understanding that an advanced degree equates with higher earning power in the future. Many of us go into public service after attaining such degrees, something that's also repeatedly described as something society should encourage. Yet, the debt we've accrued to obtain such degrees have crippled our ability to reap the benefits of our educations, causing many to make the unfortunate choice of leaving public service so as to earn enough money to pay off that debt.
Our economy is in the tank. There isn't an economist alive who doesn't believe that the economy needs stimulating immediately. The only debate now centers on how to go about doing it. While the current plan pending before Congress contains some worthy provisions, very little of it will have a significant and immediate stimulating effect on the economy. The Obama Administration itself doesn't expect to see a upsurge in the economy until mid-to-late 2010.
Instead of funneling billions of additional dollars to banks, financial institutions, insurance companies and other institutions of greed that are responsible for the current economic crisis, why not send that money directly to the people?
Cancelling student loan debt for people making under $150,000 per year would have an IMMEDIATE stimulating effect on the economy. Responsible people who did nothing other than pursue a higher education would have hundreds, if not thousands of extra dollars per month to spend, fueling the economy NOW. Those extra dollars being pumped into the economy would have a multiplying effect, unlike many of the provisions of the plan presently under consideration. As a result, tax revenues would go up, the credit market will unfreeze and jobs will be created.
2009 and the new Obama Administration is supposed to be about change. Nothing in the present economic stimulus package represents a significant departure from the way Washington has always operated - it's merely a different set of priorities on a higher scale, but it's certainly not materially different from any other economic stimulus package passed during the past few decades.
Washington cannot simply print and borrow money to get us out of this crisis. We The People, however, can get this economy moving NOW. All we need is relief from debt that was accrued under the now-false promise that higher education equates with higher earnings.
Free us of our obligations to repay Federal Stafford Loans and We The People will spend those extra dollars NOW.
If you believe that there's a better way of climbing out of this economic crisis, one that empowers We The People to directly spend money, start businesses, free up credit and create jobs, then please join this group and encourage others to do so as well.
There's strength in numbers - the more people to join this group, the louder our voices and the greater the chances of being heard by President Obama and Congress.
wow, something i can dream about tonight
If they could pay off my Citi card, that would be nice, too.
"Some of us have taken advantage of the Federal Stafford Loan program to finance higher education, presumably with the understanding that an advanced degree equates with higher earning power in the future"
What part of that says the government is responsible for you believing just because you went to architecture school your entitled to a good career? Can you hang a door? Fix a sink? Even change a tire?
No one forced you to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for your degree. why dont you instead go after your school for rolling back the 4 yr barch for licensure? Arent they the real culprits? What about those of us who chose to NOT play the education scam / game and take out massive debt? Why should we be diminished because you are debt? Is this what they teach in school now?
Or better yet, join me on my crusade to end the march tyranny
this idea is at least fifteen years old. i agree with you on that ep!
yeah this is stupid. it's not fair to those of us who worked hard for our money and thus didn't take out loans.
but isn't it more fair than giving the money to fat cats? look at it this, the money is going somewhere, it isn't like the choice is give the money away or save it.
How about we all just get a 6 month tax holiday?
some of us worked our butts off to pay off our loans...
so i'm against cancelling debt. that's ridiculous. however, load forgiveness for teachers, law enforcement and medical researchers is already possible.
loan forgiveness...
it'd be nice to have a sweet cantilever w/ load forgiveness, tho
I'd rather see student loans lessened than see people that naively paid a fortune for a 2nd home or severely over leveraged themselves get a free pass.
I pay my mortgage (and student loans), bills, etc., all on time.
But this looks like it will go this way because so many were so stupid. At least student loans enabled people to get better careers, contribute more to society, etc.
it's like living in a villa and letting the people in the ghetto pay your rent. doesn't make any sense to me...
I'm with Evil P - any student loan forgiveness is a slap in the face to all of us that were responsible and didn't take out massive loans for an education that pays only a modest salary. By design I didn't go to the most expensive institution and I selectively sought out a 5 year BArch program over a much longer and more expensive MArch program. By my estimates I saved well over $20k in loans thanks to this....$50k+ if you consider "top tier" colleges.
The real anger should be at the universities that have increased tuition at double or more the rate of inflation. WTF is with that? They are the ones that screwed you over...but you still payed it, why?
I'm also at a loss of how forgiveness of a loan helps stimulate the economy. You say that a rebate doesn't stimulate anything because people "save" or "pay down debt" with it. How is this any different?
The only way for any stimulus payment to the public to be fair is if everyone gets it, including those of us that were responsible enough not to incur massive student loan debt.
education is not a scam.
individuals should be responsible for the debts they accrue.
as you were.
I'm with aqua 100%. I finally paid off my Stafford Loans for my BARCH a couple months ago (took me 10 years).
What's next? Credit card debt forgiveness?!? People have to have some personal responsibility...
dot - education is not a scam. i agree. Architecture education is a scam. That I believe. There
I love the idea.
I want 60k to go away.
Education is not a scam. But universities are irresponsible to continue to promote advanced degrees in programs that offer little chance at employment that pays enough that addresses loan debt. I am talking about phd's in the humanities. There are so few opportunities in academia for these graduates, yet the schools keep the assembly line running. Requiring a masters degree in architecture is ridiculous. It is a field that does not need this sort of education. It is one thing to get a masters on your own accord, but to be forced to take on the debt in a field that does offer the reciprocating wage is unethical.
I agree with trace + archmed but its complicated - as a renter looking at how the gov't keeps promising to bail out homeowners, it seems totally unfair. -didn't buy during the boom, I was at a fairly inexpensive state school! I don't see how a student loan bailout would be any different in terms of fairness. It might work better then homeowner assistance, a lot of people would have a couple extra hundred $'s to throw at the economy.
Fairness doesn't seem to be a factor in how the bailout has been going up to this point anyway, we're still only a little socialist.
The tangible object thing is weird though - You can foreclose on a house, you can't foreclose on your education... {even with bankruptcy, it's still in your head} I would stimulate the economy if my loans [modest as they may be] go away.
some of us worked our butts off to pay off our loans - translation, it's not fair.
well it's also not fair that i and others worked our butts off in school so we could get good jobs, only to have the gov screw us in the ass. is it fair i graduated with a 3.9 and i've been looking for a job for 8 months? i made responsible choices, i chose the state school, albeit a damn fine one, but i don't have mountains of ivy league debt. and it's not like everyone who accumulated school debt did it because they they thought they were going to get a handout. everyone expected to pay this back somehow - or at least they should. even if i wasn't one of those with debt i'd think this was a good idea, what better way to stimulate the economy than to give a break to those individuals seeking higher education to better themselves, their communities and their country? as i said before this money is going somewhere and no matter where it goes it's not going to be fair to some group. so we can reward and bailout the DC cronies, banks, irresponsible home buyers or we can bail out hard working professionals. this is a no brainer.
This has to rank right up there with the most idiotic convergence of stupid comments i have ever witnessed on this board. i am literally furious with some of the comments made here...
Yes, yes... you brilliant few... those of you who 'worked your ass off' and were 'responsible' by avoiding student loan debt really deserve a round of applause.
Us poor schmucks who had the luxurious option of A) Student loan debt, or B) no university, sure made the wrong choice.
what a moron ive been. Apparently, I just didnt pull hard enough on my boot straps while i was working 3 jobs year round all through my ugrad. I guess i just dont have the sheer will and determination Aqua and Evil have while working 35 hours a week and taking my 18 hours of class like everyone else... gee... i sure wish i hadnt of been so lazy...
you are bitter morons, and your absurd perversion of some john wayne-esque individuality is one of the biggest reasons our nation is fat, stupid and verging on bankruptcy...
i apologize for the vitriol in this post, but jesus christ this one really pissed me off...
the fact that you would sacrifice the greater good, because forgiving debt might somehow hurt your pride is, imo, disgusting...
i've written this many many times, but here goes again. representative democracy is not about you. it doesn't matter that you worked hard to pay off your student loans. it doesn't matter that you made a responsible decision with your mortgage. it doesn't matter that you pay your bills on time or that you never even bought a house. in a representative democracy, decisions are made that are in the best interest of the country as whole. not all legislation is going to be good and right for everyone.
not that i support the above proposed legislation, but let's stop talking about our own individual experiences. it's not relevant.
'but let's stop talking about our own individual experiences. it's not relevant."
Agreed. There is a direct and inverse relationship between freedom and comfort.
I'm not sure about "cancelling" student loan debt, but I think a realistic alternative is to subsidize interest for longer periods of time.
i didn't avoid student loan debt by any means.
but i did live in a hovel and paid mine off as fast as i could because i didn't want to float through life w/ a debt i might not be able to pay if things turned south. i opted to get out of debt, not to look for a handout.
so please, enlighten me on how debt forgiveness is for the gerater good.
seriously, you're blaming responsible citizens for the reason the country is on he verge of bankruptcy? now that's hilarious.
ha ha...funny how those with who didn't get in the top (& typically most expensive) schools always try to rationalize their station by resorting to a moral argument of fiscal responsibility...truly amusing
somebody needs to stop accrediting all of these second-rate programs & their whiny graduates.
and for whatever it's worth, dick cheney was right when he said "deficits don't matter"...guns are all we need to have
this wont stimulate the economy anyway cuz if you have student loans you can't pay then you probably have other bills that the forgiven loan money would go to. because even though you are forgiven your five hundred dollar a month loan you probably arent going out and getting a bmw, you are probably paying your 20k in credit cards.
how bout allowing student loans to be taken into account when one declares bankruptcy? as of now, student loans are immune to this.. no bail(hand)out, and those who are in over their heads can take the hit the old fashioned way.
disclaimer: i have no politics/economics idea
How about - like a lot of developed countries - university was free? I pay about $4000/yr for school in Canada, and I couldn't imagine paying $20,000+ per year for school. I just wouldn't do it, and that's a shame that the price of education keeps people away. As somebody coming from a working-class background, to me debt is a truly scary thing, unlike some of my friends who see university debt as just a part of the process.
Anyway, I'm blabbing. Other developed countries can do it, why not ours?
Student loans. They almost killed me. For me, nothing is worth all that. If I were to start over and didn't have the money to go to architecture school, I would wiat a while, work full time plus, save, and attend a good state school. Sound impossible? Try paying it off on the other end. It'll about kill ya.
As for canceling them as a way to stimulate the economy? I'm with holz.box on this one. How exactly would that work?
Lletdown, The school you chose was extremely exspensive. You could have gone 4 years for the price of one at a state school. I to worked 40 hours a week, often skipping school to work construction. Im not offended your pissed - but dont be pissed at me, be pissed at your school.
But it's so easy to pissed at you ep!
"...how bout allowing student loans to be taken into account when one declares bankruptcy?"
Heh heh. Yeah, the Gov thought of that one already... That is, that you might try to create your own little "student loan forgiveness program" via bankruptcy...
"the fact that you would sacrifice the greater good, because forgiving debt might somehow hurt your pride is, imo, disgusting..."
It wouldnt hurt my pride, it would hurt me competetively. I chose the cheapest route possible so I wouldnt have debt and would be able to start a business before I became old and grey. Debt forgiveness punishes me for those who didnt think this through. Fuck the common good, theres no such thing.
no, actually, if i did not have a $1,000/month sl payment, i would definitely be buying a beemer.
you can be a responsible citizen or a decent worker and still have student loan debt
lets not pretend that because someone chose a state school that cost less that that is in any way better than someone who took out student loans to go to school
there are many factors that go into choosing the school that suits you best
to think yours is the only way is stupid on your part
i went to an out of state school for my undergrad, worked 4 years while there, and still have a lot of loans
i chose an in state school for my grad, thus enabling me to only work when i wanted to, and still have less loans
anyone who thinks that since they worked 40 hours a week while in school makes you somehow better than someone who took out student loans is ridiculous and vice versa
no one deserves this stimulus, but it was a valid idea to give it to someone different than the big businesses again
of course, they could just give people $50,000 each, and let them do what they please, that way those with less student loans dont feel left out
either way, there is no way this will happen
First all, the bailouts are technically buy - ins, the government gets perffered stock and first rights in sales, liquidation and dividends. So its more like a long term loan so the comparison to debt forgiveness is ludicris.
"no, actually, if i did not have a $1,000/month sl payment, i would definitely be buying a beemer."
... how the hell do you make that work? I assume you're not at an intern's pay rate... ?
As long as I can recoup what I paid for my education 15 years ago I am in with the plan. Otherwise I suggest you people start working harder to pay off those loans like the rest of us had to.
Good luck though.
i think a distinction needs to be made between this being a proposal to help the economy vs people actually thinking they deserve their student loans being wiped out
it seems some people are getting testy because they have either already paid off their student loans or didnt have many in the first place
if you have student loans now, it doesnt necessarily mean you didnt work as hard in school or anything like that
if you dont have student loans now (because you worked through school or chose a less expensive school) it doesnt necessarily mean you are smarter or a harder worker
... how the hell do you make that work? I assume you're not at an intern's pay rate... ?
i have no other debt. i have a good job. i live in detroit, a city with probably the lowest cost of living in the country. i live frugally.
i hate the debt, but i also value my education. i have no regrets.
I'm always surprised that whenever a discussion starts on this board about student loans that there always seem to be a set of people who are completely unsympathetic to the fact that most people are quite young when they start taking out loans. At 18 or 20 or even 22, it's really hard to conceive of how hard it can be to make a dent in a loan repayment on an intern's salary. As a society, we seem to be willing to forgive all sorts of youthful indiscretions - except for those involving money.
i think a lot of times, there is an assumption that if you take student loans and dont "work" your way through college, you are not working that hard
its a completely false assumption to make
Let me get this straight--someone held a gun to your head and made you take out those student loans? Someone made you decide the only school that would work for you was one that you couldn't afford. Wow!
I guess the government should bail you out!
Did you also incur credit card debt for spring break trips? and perhaps some travel abroad that was necessary to broaden your horizons? And for some new duds? Beer? Car money? Fraternities? other necessities?
I guess it is fair that those who didn't make those choices, won't benefit from your fine education, or who already fulfilled their obligations should dig a little deeper and help you out.
Anyway, you'll still get to feel superior when you slip on that Harvard sweatshirt.
Sorry for the sarcasm.
I think we are all learning the painful lessons that life isn't fair and expectations aren't entitlements. Many older folks scrimped and saved for years to build 401K retirement funds that shrunk before their eyes. Retirement is a rapidly vanishing dream. Employment is too.
I would be good if the government would freeze interest on student loans for those who are unemployed or underemployed but cancelling the principle is no different from cancelling the debt on my mortgage. We agreed to pay and we should do so. At least they can't take your education away from you if you fail to pay!
hey puddles, i opted for a "second tier" school because the trade-offs weren't acceptable to me. my "second tier" school was more than adequate to secure jobs in europe and seattle. so damn them, those poor "second tier" schools and their whiny, responsible alumni.
conversely (and obv. in your case) someone needs to stop accepting people into "top tier" schools that expect to get a gov't handout every time things get tough.
but dustin is correct, education should be free or greatly reduced. when i was in germany, the students put on a nationwide protest over a tuition increase of roughly $200 per semester. u.s. students routinely bend over and take it up the keester when their uni raises tution by a thousand per semester.
What do you "education should be free"? How is it free for anybody may I ask? Someone, somewhere is paying for the teachers, buildings and materials, somehow?
Who?
cm
was that fun sarcasm directed at my posts?
This is an interesting and obviously passionate discussion; I'm enjoying it.
4arch raised a very good point. Most students simply don't have a real idea how hard it is going to be to pay off student loan debt. I see this as a failing of the student loan suppliers AND the educational institutions.
Realistically: if someone sat an 18 year old down and showed them a chart with their chosen degree profession's typical salary along with typical cost of housing, groceries, car, utilities etc. AND $1,000/mo in student loan debt, I'd be willing to wager the number of people entering architecture school would be greatly reduced.
I'm not trying to be mean here: I'm in my 40s and can honestly say when I was 18 I had zero concept of cost of living. We all should be sure young students today know what they are facing when they sign that loan paper.
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