those 11 points above by stephen lauf are the meat of any informed architecture. please list me 3 buildings that deal 6 of those points in last 10 years.
they are also the vocabulary of a skillful ideology and theory.
a box is not easy at this level.
just last weekend I drove by Guild House in Philadelphia and the "GUILD HOUSE" billboard is gone/painted white. it was still there less than a month ago. has anyone else seen this? doesn't anyone know what is happening to this project?
those are great chapters.
evil, i like your honesty. but your lack of understanding does not make one's work unworthy of preserving. why don't you pick up a copy of the book and read it.
i want to re-read it.
we have been taken for a ride lately. a lot of meaningless spatial exercises became food for thousands of students. materiality and fluff applied without further considerations. i am sure many here familiar with pin ups. last several years i have been in many final juries and most students concluded research part of their projects with a picture of a star architect designed building or a space. without any further questioning or postulation of conceptual construction.
look where it got us to. a 16,000 sq. ft. snake pit in malasia...
I have read it, and forgot it, didnt even recognize the chapter names ( required at school) - also read the the late capitalism book. They are all fluff and nonsense. Theres more truth to be found in the Marvin Windoe catalouge.
Architecture is not about these books - these thinly disguised philosephy texts and entertainment for archi-folks.
Much of the newer stuff is lacking in conceptualization true but it looks far better than anything Venturi and company were doing. And people seem to like the new stuff a whole lot more. Maybe they like it for no other reason than its just cool. Its tactile and thats all it needs to be. Easy to get - not that thats bad.
This is a pretty interesting house. The Block Island Houses are also very good too. Lotta weird abrupt things happening for such a small house. That big (entrance) to small (foyer) to big (expanding living room) sequence is v nice. Gives the house much more power than one would exepct for its size. And the openings are really unusual.
Formally, Venturi's residential work is way underrated. But I guess thats always been a minority opinion. So unfortuately that house is prob toast.
Jan 29, 09 2:34 pm ·
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For clarity's sake, the Lieb House is not among the works published within Complexity and Contradiction; the Lieb House is among the works published within Learning from Las Vegas, 1st edition:
The Lieb House
Loveladies, New Jersey, 1967
(with the assistance of Gerod Clark [who may the first architect to collage magazine people within architectural renderings])
It is easy to explain what the Lieb House is not: It is not a tasteful natural-wood-shingled configuration of complex and contradictory wings and roofs. It is an ordinary shed with conventional elements. It uses asbestos shingles with imitation wood-grain relief, once the indigenous building material on Long Beach Island. And it uses big elements, such as the stair that starts out the width of the house and gradually decreases to three feet on the second floor. Its unconventional elements are explicitly extraordinary when they do occur, as in the big round window that looks like a 1930s radio loud-speaker. It is a little house with big scale, different from the houses around it but also like them. It tries not to make the plaster madonna in the birdbath next door look silly, and it stands up to, rather than ignores, the environment of utility poles.
actually i don't smoke, drink and take drugs. i will rarely smoke pot if somebody pass it to me. yes i inhaled. but these days nobody is smoking at parties. people are so proper and corporate wherever you go.
how about you? do you get hi or drunk? i sometimes miss it.
i couldn't read anything when i was stoned. i usually opted for walking and looking at buildings and watch people.
jump: "His built work is only important because of his writing" ... "like a joke, if you have to explain the meaning to audience it isn't good. that goes for architecture as much as for comedy."
make: I have to say this building is more interesting the more I look at it...
I think these are both good points. I agree with jump to a large extent that Venturi's built works are both notable and understandable only in relation to his writing. I don't know enough about the history of theory, but I wonder if this signalled a change in academic architecture at least: that design was informed less by formula and perhaps even style than late high Modernism had been. Perhaps for a time after Venturi, all academic or "high" architecture to some extent could only be fully understood alongside an accompanying thesis. I'm not sure this is all bad. Where I think it fails is when this high academicism is employed so universally and so thoroughly that it becomes inaccessible.
Make's comment that the building becomes more interesting the longer one studies it proves that the academicism and thesis is accsessible, that the building is approachable, and that even if dismissed upon initial observation a sense of intrigue and sympathy emerges. I think it's interesting that a lot of low-brow "post-modernism" that is really just faux-historicist completely lacks this aspect, while perhaps a lot of high post-modernism, especially a lot of deconstructivist work, has the opposite problem of being almost completely unapproachable by the vast majority of people.
I think the best architecture is that which is highly theoretically developed, but that is enjoyable without understanding the theoretical origins at all: that theory is the means, not the end. Unlike Guild House, which I personally think was reckless and overly theoretical (and imposed on an unwilling user), this house is clearly rich in theory and study, but appealing on a very human level, too. In my mind, that makes it an excellent work of architecture, and certainly one worth saving.
Orhan, leave the dude be, it's not worth it: he's a stone cold troll, just spouting out stuff out of his back opening to get reactions....C&C in A is in fact one of the most clearly written and easy to understand texts in the history of architectural writing...I wonder who is really doing the dope smoking....
The first time I read Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture was in 1973, while a junior in high school. I didn't understand a whole bunch of it then, but by 1975, in first year of architecture school, I found I had no problem explaining (and defending) my designs virtually from day one. Whenever I read passages from the book now, I'm actually surprised by the straightforwardness, conciseness and ease with which Venturi delivers his insights.
E - speaking French or whatever wont make you smart and defend your house, nor will the grerman freak with a postmodern fetish. The bulk of the folks here could give a shit about the house which I hope, as its 4pm eastern, is a few 30 yd dumpsters by now.
This is all quite funny when you read it. Gotta shake my head and think, again, no wonder architecture spirals downward, can't even agree on saving or leveling.
Everybody hug and let's get back to bitching about the economy, or pay, or schools.
i hope the house lives on - even if in a new location. my bet is that the replacement will be constructed pollution: wasteful, out of scale, under-considered, over-accessorized, and ultimately uninteresting. i would love to be wrong.
Jan 29, 09 4:18 pm ·
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Evilplatypus, in all fairness, your own shortcomings aren't much of a defense either.
Such as what german freak boy whateverthe hell you call yourself this week? You posted the names of chapters that dont even make sense - at least someone agreed with my premis that the house is small and cheap and could easily be replaced and thus isnt worthy of a salvage effort. I wasnt going to bring up that its fugly as shit but since were going there why not.
I think another point to make here, is that whether you like the house or not, and whether you think Venturi is a quack (duck/shed, get it?) or not, the fact that this is a work by an important and influential architect, and was important and influential in his work makes it historically valuable. I can think of at least two reasons to preserve buildings (and I think there are easily others): historical value and design value. Even if you detest this building and its theoretical background, you should at least see the historical value in saving it. There's value in preserving architecture that we might see as bad, or that marks a theory or program that we see as bad in that we are preserving the mistakes of the past for future record. This is not the reason that I'd argue for saving this house, but I think that argument could overlap with the argument for saving it as a fine work of architecture. Obviously, it's always open to debate, but unlike preservation for the sake of design, there's much less subjectivity when it comes to historical relevance. We may argue that architecture may have been better or worse for Venturi's contribution, but I don't think either argument would actually seek to forget or erase his work.
"I can think of at least two reasons to preserve buildings (and I think there are easily others): historical value and design value. Even if you detest this building and its theoretical background, you should at least see the historical value in saving it"
Not at all. This work was Venturi's first or second project in the late 60's. Thats 40 years. 40 years and were going to crown this guy important in the stream of architectural history? When barely 40 years later they want to knock it down? You cant fight current of culture - it will decide what stays and goes.
Pennsylvania Station, New York City: 1910-1963, slightly over 40 years and they wanted to tear it down. Looks like people sometimes change their minds after they demolish something, evilp. It's not only wasteful to constantly to demolish something because the "current of culture" (I read trend here) changes, it's also reckless. You lose your history. And yes, I think 40 years later we can crown Venturi important to the stream of architectural history, whether you like his work or not, but I don't know: let's ask the AIA, Pritzker, or Congress. Your argument that he is unimportant historically because you don't like him is like me arguing that Reagan is unimportant because I don't like him: it has no bearing.
We wont be losing our history by tearing this house down. The Pritzker is also less than 40 years old, will we look back and say all our trendy, yes trendy picks for the prize where valid? The AIA has nothing to do with it and Im not sure what congress could add. The only argument I really see against tearing this down is a few people dont like the current development trend on the Jersey shorline. Now thats your bearing mike. To say its not important because i dont like him is wrong. To say its not important because most people dont care for him or buildings or cheaply constructed buildings on prime property might be more correct. I dont see Docomo, or Pritzker family or Arts council running to the rescue.
Jan 29, 09 4:50 pm ·
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ep, your latest shortcoming is the name-calling, and you can call me whatever you want, but so far it signifies a shortcoming (and now for me an invisibility as well).
In all honesty, how this story plays out doesn't really matter to me at all, but it does interest me. The house being moved and sailing on a barge will make great documentary film footage, and when you think of price of entertainment film footage production, the moving of the Lieb House is probably relatively cheap. And there is the notion of someone actually "collecting" a building. This is not exactly something unprecedented, rather not so much a modern activity. Whether the house is moved or demolished, either case will be a historic architectural event. And, of course, a triumphal event will be more uplifting than a destructive one.
Coincidently, the utility wires are still an issue (if the house is moved).
evil, look up awards received by Venturi for more on where the AIA and Congress stand on him. Including the 25-year award, the epitome of a non-trend-based award. Like it or not, he is historically valid.
In any event, I hoped it is moved and the 9 becomes as confusing then as it was once clear. It makes me think of a dorm at school named after its supposed address "610" whose mailing address was 620.
I'm no expert on Venturi, but have been exposed to a lot of his influence. I have read his "Architecture as Signs and Systems" and I believe it is really a more refined version of his earlier books combined with Denise S. Brown's ideas. I have a lot more respect for their ideas than their built work. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been influenced by his take on explicit, implicit, and unintentional associations in relation to architecture. In fact, it is a large part of how I process ideas.
It is interesting though... Like Corbusier, I feel they had strongly influential ideas and uniqueness to their works that avoided the pitfalls of their own ideas. Their ideas have been copied without their quirkiness and instead used to rationalize laziness. When in fact their original ideas only succeeded because of the refinement and clear execution.
That said, for some reason I don't have a strong opinion on the conservation of this building. I can't explain it...
I wish Venturi had done more of these compact houses. His smaller stuff always had more power than his big projects.
Jan 29, 09 7:09 pm ·
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The article linked at the opening of this thread does not say that the Lieb House is in danger of being wrecked if it not off the property by Monday, rather:
The company will begin today [Wednesday] to jack up the house and slip steel rollers under the foundation, said Kendal Siegrist, a manager. By Friday, it should reach the parking lot in Barnegat's marina.
How long it will sit there is anyone's guess. "Maybe several days," Siegrist suggested.
So, it seems while all of the above was being written, the Lieb House was actually being moved down a Loveladies street and into Barnaget Light.
I'm guessing the paperwork for the receiving end will indeed eventually materialize, and the house will sail on--Teatro del Mondo take 2.
Somol's "My Mother the House" really is a funny piece of architecture criticism. Funny in that it takes itself seriously as criticism while actually being very undercooked satire. Overall, what he accuses Scully's criticism of being, Somol then produces several times over--a magician who's tricks rely mainly on the likes of out-take editing. Very superficial and not surgical at all.
Two errors, one typical and sad, and the other just strange. Again the Immaculate Conception was confused for the Incarnation and Venturi did not "substitute the functionless TV antenna for the Madonna that he originally planned to place atop the Guild House." The Guild House was designed for a Quaker Institution.
What I see in the picture of the young Judy Lieb sitting on the steps with her kids is a bored housewife down the shore for the summer while Mr. Leib remains at work in the city and only comes down for the weekends.
Arch.Critical, I totally agree with your last paragraph. Her pose evokes an attractive woman who needs more attention than what she's getting from her absent husband. That photo has always made me uncomfortable; having worked on a few houses down the shore I think it's a common circumstance.
Jan 30, 09 11:03 am ·
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Is it true they're making a sequel to Mad Men called Loveladies? I hear it's gonna be like Desperate Housewives meets the Jersey Devil washed in the aura of '68 and '69.
True, arch.in, I was more responding to Jim Venturi's "It's still not a done deal", meaning the whole process wouldn't start unless all the ducks were in a row (ducks, ha ha).
I don't know, Mrs. Lieb could have just been staring at the sand patterns on top of her foot, which I do also when I'm "downashore".
Jan 30, 09 3:54 pm ·
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No, it's not a done deal (or at least it wan't on Wednesday), but the article makes it pretty clear that the process is starting, and the house is probably right now moved off the property.
My thoughts on Mrs. Lieb are in response to Somol's conjuring conjecture of the female figure replacing the automobile in the canonical depiction of modern architecture. (See what I mean by funny?) Granted, Mrs. Lieb may not have been bored in Loveladies, but, as Liberty Bell concurs, it's not an unlikely circumstance. And, if the bordom actually was there, the context was more than a bit bleek, and I wonder if the architecture helped or hurt.
If nothing else, the Lieb House has a whole lot of story to tell, and it looks like more story still to come. I think that's pretty neat for a little box house.
No, not an unlikely circumstance at all. "The female figure replacing the automobile in the canonical depiction of modern architecture"...that's great...from a Voisin automobile in Poissy to a lovely lady in Loveladies.
I also like the bicycle wheel peeking out and the fishing pole and tackle box in that photo...they really evoke lazy summer days at the shore.
ep, it get's even better. Apparently, Vanna Venturi sitting in front of her house is an updated Annunciation painting, and the "Immaculate Conception" [sic] is happening.
I call Somol's criticism superficial because all he really talks about is pictures and not the architecture itself.
I remember when I was 19 and my studio professor...who came out of Kahn's office told me in 1972 that my project looked like a Venturi.
Being a young wiz in Science, I'm sure I looked at him with a puzzled look thinking of the, "Venturi Effect." Having no Idea who the Architect was. So I find this whole topic a bit funny. I love the thought of it being put on a ferry.....isn't that where all good houses go.
I was down on the Connecticut Coast today looking at one of my projects as the roof is being sheathed. I hate houses built in the winter cause...with all the moisture and the cold conditions. everything seems to suffer. Workers work less hours, the patience
goes to hell because everyone is in insulated coveralls..and smoking
cigars..or cigs. Most of the time is cleaning the floor deck off which always seems to be like a skating rink. I hope no one ever decides they want to put this house on a ferry and ship it across the bay.
Kurt....or be, "Pissing against the Wind!"....movie with willie nelson...and slim pickens.....and what is her name.... Irving...not and epic by any means...but Willie in a scotish Kilt....made the move..
For the record, the buyer was hoping to avoid having to tear down this architectural landmark. In fact, relocating the home to a vacant lot on West 27th Street in Barnegat Light was discussed. As the broker involved with the sale, I too looked into relocating the home to one of the properties I own in Barnegat Light. I proposed the idea to my architect and friend Robert Musgnug who was kind enough to do some research and get some numbers together for me. Unfortunatley the time, money, and permitting fiasco typically necessary to accomplish such an objective made it impossible for me at this juncture. Kudos to Jimmy Venturi and the couple from Glen Cove. Kudos to Sheila Ellman for all of her hard work in getting the word out, and helping save this modern architectural landmark! It was truly fascinating watching the workers from the fleets of Atlantic Electric, Verizon, and our local police departments come together with Wolfe Movers to help wheel this boxy structure from 30th street in Barnegat Light, up to the 16th street dock where the home now sits--awaiting the mothership. Amazing.
The most ironic part of the move was watching a man climb down the inside stairwell--as it crossed 20th street and Bayview Avenue in front of my office. Wow. Moving the home itself is a modern marvel!
Wow. Look at that. Makes me wonder, what would Farnsworth or Fallingwater look like on the back of a semi... i think Thoreau commented how forlorn and pathetic ones possessions look when loaded up and moved.
Venturi's Lieb (No. 9) House to be moved (or demolished)
Yeah, make, I'm with you. It is a cool project, pedigree or no.
those 11 points above by stephen lauf are the meat of any informed architecture. please list me 3 buildings that deal 6 of those points in last 10 years.
they are also the vocabulary of a skillful ideology and theory.
a box is not easy at this level.
I would if I could actualy understand what six of those points actualy mean
Orhan, the "11 points" are simply a copy of the contents page of Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture.
just last weekend I drove by Guild House in Philadelphia and the "GUILD HOUSE" billboard is gone/painted white. it was still there less than a month ago. has anyone else seen this? doesn't anyone know what is happening to this project?
those are great chapters.
evil, i like your honesty. but your lack of understanding does not make one's work unworthy of preserving. why don't you pick up a copy of the book and read it.
i want to re-read it.
we have been taken for a ride lately. a lot of meaningless spatial exercises became food for thousands of students. materiality and fluff applied without further considerations. i am sure many here familiar with pin ups. last several years i have been in many final juries and most students concluded research part of their projects with a picture of a star architect designed building or a space. without any further questioning or postulation of conceptual construction.
look where it got us to. a 16,000 sq. ft. snake pit in malasia...
I have read it, and forgot it, didnt even recognize the chapter names ( required at school) - also read the the late capitalism book. They are all fluff and nonsense. Theres more truth to be found in the Marvin Windoe catalouge.
Architecture is not about these books - these thinly disguised philosephy texts and entertainment for archi-folks.
Much of the newer stuff is lacking in conceptualization true but it looks far better than anything Venturi and company were doing. And people seem to like the new stuff a whole lot more. Maybe they like it for no other reason than its just cool. Its tactile and thats all it needs to be. Easy to get - not that thats bad.
This is a pretty interesting house. The Block Island Houses are also very good too. Lotta weird abrupt things happening for such a small house. That big (entrance) to small (foyer) to big (expanding living room) sequence is v nice. Gives the house much more power than one would exepct for its size. And the openings are really unusual.
Formally, Venturi's residential work is way underrated. But I guess thats always been a minority opinion. So unfortuately that house is prob toast.
For clarity's sake, the Lieb House is not among the works published within Complexity and Contradiction; the Lieb House is among the works published within Learning from Las Vegas, 1st edition:
The Lieb House
Loveladies, New Jersey, 1967
(with the assistance of Gerod Clark [who may the first architect to collage magazine people within architectural renderings])
It is easy to explain what the Lieb House is not: It is not a tasteful natural-wood-shingled configuration of complex and contradictory wings and roofs. It is an ordinary shed with conventional elements. It uses asbestos shingles with imitation wood-grain relief, once the indigenous building material on Long Beach Island. And it uses big elements, such as the stair that starts out the width of the house and gradually decreases to three feet on the second floor. Its unconventional elements are explicitly extraordinary when they do occur, as in the big round window that looks like a 1930s radio loud-speaker. It is a little house with big scale, different from the houses around it but also like them. It tries not to make the plaster madonna in the birdbath next door look silly, and it stands up to, rather than ignores, the environment of utility poles.
evil, whatever, dude.
but with each sentence you visit another galaxy.
Orhan - these postmodern texts are uninteligable. I sak you, how much dope were you smoking when you got into them? Theres a connection.
actually i don't smoke, drink and take drugs. i will rarely smoke pot if somebody pass it to me. yes i inhaled. but these days nobody is smoking at parties. people are so proper and corporate wherever you go.
how about you? do you get hi or drunk? i sometimes miss it.
i couldn't read anything when i was stoned. i usually opted for walking and looking at buildings and watch people.
jump: "His built work is only important because of his writing" ... "like a joke, if you have to explain the meaning to audience it isn't good. that goes for architecture as much as for comedy."
make: I have to say this building is more interesting the more I look at it...
I think these are both good points. I agree with jump to a large extent that Venturi's built works are both notable and understandable only in relation to his writing. I don't know enough about the history of theory, but I wonder if this signalled a change in academic architecture at least: that design was informed less by formula and perhaps even style than late high Modernism had been. Perhaps for a time after Venturi, all academic or "high" architecture to some extent could only be fully understood alongside an accompanying thesis. I'm not sure this is all bad. Where I think it fails is when this high academicism is employed so universally and so thoroughly that it becomes inaccessible.
Make's comment that the building becomes more interesting the longer one studies it proves that the academicism and thesis is accsessible, that the building is approachable, and that even if dismissed upon initial observation a sense of intrigue and sympathy emerges. I think it's interesting that a lot of low-brow "post-modernism" that is really just faux-historicist completely lacks this aspect, while perhaps a lot of high post-modernism, especially a lot of deconstructivist work, has the opposite problem of being almost completely unapproachable by the vast majority of people.
I think the best architecture is that which is highly theoretically developed, but that is enjoyable without understanding the theoretical origins at all: that theory is the means, not the end. Unlike Guild House, which I personally think was reckless and overly theoretical (and imposed on an unwilling user), this house is clearly rich in theory and study, but appealing on a very human level, too. In my mind, that makes it an excellent work of architecture, and certainly one worth saving.
Orhan, leave the dude be, it's not worth it: he's a stone cold troll, just spouting out stuff out of his back opening to get reactions....C&C in A is in fact one of the most clearly written and easy to understand texts in the history of architectural writing...I wonder who is really doing the dope smoking....
oh, and one of the best illustrated, too.
The first time I read Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture was in 1973, while a junior in high school. I didn't understand a whole bunch of it then, but by 1975, in first year of architecture school, I found I had no problem explaining (and defending) my designs virtually from day one. Whenever I read passages from the book now, I'm actually surprised by the straightforwardness, conciseness and ease with which Venturi delivers his insights.
i agree that a lot of 'postmodern texts' are unintelligible, but can't put venturi's in that category. his stuff reads nice and easy.
and you can dance like a prayer, isla bonita
Which reminds me, Somol's take on the Lieb House is a funny read. So where is that photocopy. Ah, "My Mother the House" I think from Fetish.
E - speaking French or whatever wont make you smart and defend your house, nor will the grerman freak with a postmodern fetish. The bulk of the folks here could give a shit about the house which I hope, as its 4pm eastern, is a few 30 yd dumpsters by now.
This is all quite funny when you read it. Gotta shake my head and think, again, no wonder architecture spirals downward, can't even agree on saving or leveling.
Everybody hug and let's get back to bitching about the economy, or pay, or schools.
edifying stuff here, guys.
i hope the house lives on - even if in a new location. my bet is that the replacement will be constructed pollution: wasteful, out of scale, under-considered, over-accessorized, and ultimately uninteresting. i would love to be wrong.
Evilplatypus, in all fairness, your own shortcomings aren't much of a defense either.
Settlement is on Monday.
Such as what german freak boy whateverthe hell you call yourself this week? You posted the names of chapters that dont even make sense - at least someone agreed with my premis that the house is small and cheap and could easily be replaced and thus isnt worthy of a salvage effort. I wasnt going to bring up that its fugly as shit but since were going there why not.
I think another point to make here, is that whether you like the house or not, and whether you think Venturi is a quack (duck/shed, get it?) or not, the fact that this is a work by an important and influential architect, and was important and influential in his work makes it historically valuable. I can think of at least two reasons to preserve buildings (and I think there are easily others): historical value and design value. Even if you detest this building and its theoretical background, you should at least see the historical value in saving it. There's value in preserving architecture that we might see as bad, or that marks a theory or program that we see as bad in that we are preserving the mistakes of the past for future record. This is not the reason that I'd argue for saving this house, but I think that argument could overlap with the argument for saving it as a fine work of architecture. Obviously, it's always open to debate, but unlike preservation for the sake of design, there's much less subjectivity when it comes to historical relevance. We may argue that architecture may have been better or worse for Venturi's contribution, but I don't think either argument would actually seek to forget or erase his work.
"I can think of at least two reasons to preserve buildings (and I think there are easily others): historical value and design value. Even if you detest this building and its theoretical background, you should at least see the historical value in saving it"
Not at all. This work was Venturi's first or second project in the late 60's. Thats 40 years. 40 years and were going to crown this guy important in the stream of architectural history? When barely 40 years later they want to knock it down? You cant fight current of culture - it will decide what stays and goes.
Pennsylvania Station, New York City: 1910-1963, slightly over 40 years and they wanted to tear it down. Looks like people sometimes change their minds after they demolish something, evilp. It's not only wasteful to constantly to demolish something because the "current of culture" (I read trend here) changes, it's also reckless. You lose your history. And yes, I think 40 years later we can crown Venturi important to the stream of architectural history, whether you like his work or not, but I don't know: let's ask the AIA, Pritzker, or Congress. Your argument that he is unimportant historically because you don't like him is like me arguing that Reagan is unimportant because I don't like him: it has no bearing.
We wont be losing our history by tearing this house down. The Pritzker is also less than 40 years old, will we look back and say all our trendy, yes trendy picks for the prize where valid? The AIA has nothing to do with it and Im not sure what congress could add. The only argument I really see against tearing this down is a few people dont like the current development trend on the Jersey shorline. Now thats your bearing mike. To say its not important because i dont like him is wrong. To say its not important because most people dont care for him or buildings or cheaply constructed buildings on prime property might be more correct. I dont see Docomo, or Pritzker family or Arts council running to the rescue.
ep, your latest shortcoming is the name-calling, and you can call me whatever you want, but so far it signifies a shortcoming (and now for me an invisibility as well).
In all honesty, how this story plays out doesn't really matter to me at all, but it does interest me. The house being moved and sailing on a barge will make great documentary film footage, and when you think of price of entertainment film footage production, the moving of the Lieb House is probably relatively cheap. And there is the notion of someone actually "collecting" a building. This is not exactly something unprecedented, rather not so much a modern activity. Whether the house is moved or demolished, either case will be a historic architectural event. And, of course, a triumphal event will be more uplifting than a destructive one.
Coincidently, the utility wires are still an issue (if the house is moved).
evil, look up awards received by Venturi for more on where the AIA and Congress stand on him. Including the 25-year award, the epitome of a non-trend-based award. Like it or not, he is historically valid.
In any event, I hoped it is moved and the 9 becomes as confusing then as it was once clear. It makes me think of a dorm at school named after its supposed address "610" whose mailing address was 620.
I'm no expert on Venturi, but have been exposed to a lot of his influence. I have read his "Architecture as Signs and Systems" and I believe it is really a more refined version of his earlier books combined with Denise S. Brown's ideas. I have a lot more respect for their ideas than their built work. I'd be lying if I said I haven't been influenced by his take on explicit, implicit, and unintentional associations in relation to architecture. In fact, it is a large part of how I process ideas.
It is interesting though... Like Corbusier, I feel they had strongly influential ideas and uniqueness to their works that avoided the pitfalls of their own ideas. Their ideas have been copied without their quirkiness and instead used to rationalize laziness. When in fact their original ideas only succeeded because of the refinement and clear execution.
That said, for some reason I don't have a strong opinion on the conservation of this building. I can't explain it...
I wish Venturi had done more of these compact houses. His smaller stuff always had more power than his big projects.
The article linked at the opening of this thread does not say that the Lieb House is in danger of being wrecked if it not off the property by Monday, rather:
The company will begin today [Wednesday] to jack up the house and slip steel rollers under the foundation, said Kendal Siegrist, a manager. By Friday, it should reach the parking lot in Barnegat's marina.
How long it will sit there is anyone's guess. "Maybe several days," Siegrist suggested.
So, it seems while all of the above was being written, the Lieb House was actually being moved down a Loveladies street and into Barnaget Light.
I'm guessing the paperwork for the receiving end will indeed eventually materialize, and the house will sail on--Teatro del Mondo take 2.
Somol's "My Mother the House" really is a funny piece of architecture criticism. Funny in that it takes itself seriously as criticism while actually being very undercooked satire. Overall, what he accuses Scully's criticism of being, Somol then produces several times over--a magician who's tricks rely mainly on the likes of out-take editing. Very superficial and not surgical at all.
Two errors, one typical and sad, and the other just strange. Again the Immaculate Conception was confused for the Incarnation and Venturi did not "substitute the functionless TV antenna for the Madonna that he originally planned to place atop the Guild House." The Guild House was designed for a Quaker Institution.
What I see in the picture of the young Judy Lieb sitting on the steps with her kids is a bored housewife down the shore for the summer while Mr. Leib remains at work in the city and only comes down for the weekends.
Arch.Critical, I totally agree with your last paragraph. Her pose evokes an attractive woman who needs more attention than what she's getting from her absent husband. That photo has always made me uncomfortable; having worked on a few houses down the shore I think it's a common circumstance.
Is it true they're making a sequel to Mad Men called Loveladies? I hear it's gonna be like Desperate Housewives meets the Jersey Devil washed in the aura of '68 and '69.
True, arch.in, I was more responding to Jim Venturi's "It's still not a done deal", meaning the whole process wouldn't start unless all the ducks were in a row (ducks, ha ha).
I don't know, Mrs. Lieb could have just been staring at the sand patterns on top of her foot, which I do also when I'm "downashore".
No, it's not a done deal (or at least it wan't on Wednesday), but the article makes it pretty clear that the process is starting, and the house is probably right now moved off the property.
My thoughts on Mrs. Lieb are in response to Somol's conjuring conjecture of the female figure replacing the automobile in the canonical depiction of modern architecture. (See what I mean by funny?) Granted, Mrs. Lieb may not have been bored in Loveladies, but, as Liberty Bell concurs, it's not an unlikely circumstance. And, if the bordom actually was there, the context was more than a bit bleek, and I wonder if the architecture helped or hurt.
If nothing else, the Lieb House has a whole lot of story to tell, and it looks like more story still to come. I think that's pretty neat for a little box house.
No, not an unlikely circumstance at all. "The female figure replacing the automobile in the canonical depiction of modern architecture"...that's great...from a Voisin automobile in Poissy to a lovely lady in Loveladies.
I also like the bicycle wheel peeking out and the fishing pole and tackle box in that photo...they really evoke lazy summer days at the shore.
For christ sake
somebody sneezed...
ep, it get's even better. Apparently, Vanna Venturi sitting in front of her house is an updated Annunciation painting, and the "Immaculate Conception" [sic] is happening.
I call Somol's criticism superficial because all he really talks about is pictures and not the architecture itself.
I remember when I was 19 and my studio professor...who came out of Kahn's office told me in 1972 that my project looked like a Venturi.
Being a young wiz in Science, I'm sure I looked at him with a puzzled look thinking of the, "Venturi Effect." Having no Idea who the Architect was. So I find this whole topic a bit funny. I love the thought of it being put on a ferry.....isn't that where all good houses go.
I was down on the Connecticut Coast today looking at one of my projects as the roof is being sheathed. I hate houses built in the winter cause...with all the moisture and the cold conditions. everything seems to suffer. Workers work less hours, the patience
goes to hell because everyone is in insulated coveralls..and smoking
cigars..or cigs. Most of the time is cleaning the floor deck off which always seems to be like a skating rink. I hope no one ever decides they want to put this house on a ferry and ship it across the bay.
lol.
i feel very strongly that architects see more than is there and think more than they should.
sometimes things we see do not signify anything at all. Can't we let people live their lives without projecting our own onto them?
;-)
"...feel very strongly that architects see more than is there and think more than they should."
Well said. We are most often chasing the wind.
Kurt....or be, "Pissing against the Wind!"....movie with willie nelson...and slim pickens.....and what is her name.... Irving...not and epic by any means...but Willie in a scotish Kilt....made the move..
Is it gone yet?
from Skyline Online:
For the record, the buyer was hoping to avoid having to tear down this architectural landmark. In fact, relocating the home to a vacant lot on West 27th Street in Barnegat Light was discussed. As the broker involved with the sale, I too looked into relocating the home to one of the properties I own in Barnegat Light. I proposed the idea to my architect and friend Robert Musgnug who was kind enough to do some research and get some numbers together for me. Unfortunatley the time, money, and permitting fiasco typically necessary to accomplish such an objective made it impossible for me at this juncture. Kudos to Jimmy Venturi and the couple from Glen Cove. Kudos to Sheila Ellman for all of her hard work in getting the word out, and helping save this modern architectural landmark! It was truly fascinating watching the workers from the fleets of Atlantic Electric, Verizon, and our local police departments come together with Wolfe Movers to help wheel this boxy structure from 30th street in Barnegat Light, up to the 16th street dock where the home now sits--awaiting the mothership. Amazing.
The most ironic part of the move was watching a man climb down the inside stairwell--as it crossed 20th street and Bayview Avenue in front of my office. Wow. Moving the home itself is a modern marvel!
2009.01.29
2009.01.30
and more from flickr 2009.01.16
Wow. Look at that. Makes me wonder, what would Farnsworth or Fallingwater look like on the back of a semi... i think Thoreau commented how forlorn and pathetic ones possessions look when loaded up and moved.
good point, kurt. it is no longer the same house.
Gordon loves it even more like that.
As does Aldo.
architectures in the space-time continuum
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