The way things are looking...
If you have been laid off and can't seem to find another job with an architecture firm:
What are possible backup jobs for architects?
Is there something else out there suited for an architects skills?
go the howard roark way and become a tradesman in your prefered material of choice.
his was steel. Granted that was fiction but really pointed in the concept that the more you know what a material can do the better you can design with it.
The unions do have great apprentice prohrams. masons in illinois make 100k on public projects....
I do have quite a bit of experience in steel. I worked as a fabricator for an architectural steel specialty place while in college. What I was assuming though is that even those jobs will be hard to come by as things get worse.
i am thinking of opening a small hole in the wall lunch only restaurant with high quality plastic knives, forks and spoons with biodegradable paper containers.
menu (my sister is working on it);
daily soup
great 5-6 sandwiches (fresh quality bread)
two daily hot dishes (1 with meat)
refrigerated 6-8 meze type, mostly vegetarian and sea food (fresh typical mediterranean with eastern bend. no falafels or kababs. stuff that i know how it should taste)
i would sub contract few deserts and have a small espresso machine.
only bottled sodas and refreshments
mainly take out but 3-4 tables available.
of course, smartly decorated interiors.
That sounds nice Orhan.
I think for someone in my situation (new graduate) there won't be much capital to help with upfront costs for something like that.
Considering loans for new business' probably aren't that frequent right now, is there another way?
homebody, i am trying to find money from small investors, so far some tenative okays received.
i am minus balance as we speak. that is making me think all this stuff.;.)
dsc_arch, i don't know the new place, but more the better.
when i was in your situation, younger, out of school and bad economy, i worked as a construction help for a small contractor who did fix-ups. i tell you what, i learned a great deal from that job and when i finally worked doing residential work, i was very well equipped to do the job.
My version of your lunch-only eatery is having a small custom furniture shop. I own most of the tools I would need to start this but lack adequate work space at the moment. I even own my own welder. The only thing that makes me think there is any hope for this idea in current times is the 'nesting' instinct most News outlets are playing up at the moment (That most families are spending money for home comforts to weather the storm so to speak).
i'd caution against 3-d games and film unless you are not wanting to ever get back into the field.
we interviewed such a candidate and looked at designing as "set design" only. he had lost all cad skills and knew nothing of real world codes. he needed to go back to entry level.
hmmm. i barely scratched CAD in school and picked it up in maybe a couple days after beginning work at my first firm. i still know nothing about code. but that is what reference books are for, right?
in my (little) experience, it seems project management skills are the most important. regardless of what level you are at, the ability to put this with that is what makes a project. it is a recombinant profession.
Management skills will be required much later. For now being a good team player is paramount.
Architecture is not a recombinant profession. Think of yourself as an orchestra conductor.
Without a working knowledge of the code (IBC and nfpa 101) you are worthless.
Keeping the music analogy, the code is the framework - the understanding of what each instrument can do.
How can you design without knowing what your boundaries such as height and area are. Without knowing what type of construction is required for your building type how can you develop the envelope?
How can you lay out a plan without knowing why and where you need an area of rescue assistance?
I've only heard (cause I've never been) that architecture offers a pretty broad education. Would an architecture degree allow you to go into graphic design without a hitch? Do you guys learn the programs and design principles similar to that profession? I also have the same question for landscape architecture. Would there be no real trouble switching to that career if I had an arch degree or will I be way behind others who took landarch as their masters..
I'm sure you have much more experience than I, but still I have to disagree. The 'boundaries' should be known in the first hours of a project with a simple code search. Of course, as things change code should be re-examined, but... I started at my first firm in May and have been managing my own project since August. (Yes, I am not out of a job YET.) Maybe its the nature of this project, or being new to nearly every experience, but by far the most important thing has been the ability to coordinate my consultants and manage the owners expectations with the realities of our budget. In other words, recombining the information given to me in a coherent set of documents.
I think a cursory knowledge of code is all that has been needed in my case (and the ability to use an Index).
Understanding what an instrument can do doesn't mean you can play it. I believe I have been right to yield to my consultants at times. They know better what is possible or even best for a system than I do.
Its a comlex question. I think there is crossover when it comes to programs and principles, but mostly its the ability to teach yourself that makes an architectural education 'broad'. Sitting alone and learning programs, theory, construction concepts and design process because formal classes take a lot for granted. Architectural professors in my experience tended to use the "figure it out" line quite a bit.
Just tell them you know it and can do it and figure those things out while their back is turned.
Or maybe that is bad advice... but hey, that's what I do.
I used to think that way when I stared out. however as our experience grew we became the driver and now instruct our consultants / contractors what tune to play.
remember Beethoven was could not hear during his final works but he knew how his music played
sometimes owner / consultant / contractor choices are poor choices for both the use and the budget.
A quick example is when I interviewed for my job at the architectural steel fabrication place: they used Rhino for both design and shop work. I knew it was possible going in so put that I had experience with it on my resume even though I hadn't. This fake experience was definitely a factor for my hiring and once I knew this gave myself a crash course in it before my first day of work and everything went fine.
Ya, its probably a good way to get over your head, and a bit dishonest, but if it becomes truth before the day I start work...then its the truth, right?
barry, since all the produce in the restaurant would be grown by us, i was more thinking of you to be in charge of entire farming operations. hehhe...
treekiller farms!
hmmm.. how about farming? renting two acres of fertile land out there in jobsville and growing organic produce???
equipment needed;
used truck and water tank and some shovels and picks...
While I didn't interview with dsc, my years in hollywood, atrophied my architecture skills to the point that returning to grad school was a must when I choose to return. Choose your career tangents wisely, your might inadvertently be closing doors that will take lots of effort and $ to re-open.
is obama bringing back local utopian visions with him? if so, kinda cool. the 60's were sorta of silly but cool cuz everyone was so optimistic in spite of shit going on. we could use some of that again.
homestay, i get you, and code is pretty common-sense anyway, but dsc is correct. you will not be competent till you know how to use the code to get to interesting places. so much of that stuff is counter-intuitive in practice, in spite of being more or less clear on paper. in fact much of architecture is like that. i gurantee you will find yourself someday looking at a problem and someone will give you the answer and you'll say "you can do THAT?"
Co-ordination is just base-line stuff. Directing the people you are co-ordinating is the real job. And it isn't easy if you are ignorant. Feel free to fake your way through things. That is how most of us do it, but don't forget to not fool yourself while you are at it.
Pinkbug, there are lots of overlaps in graphic design and architecture. The software is often shared - I have done some graphic design work on side for money and am not so bad at it. But like any other job experience counts and lack of experience will show. If you want to be a graphic designer go to school that teaches it.
Frankly I am not so sure stepping out of archi-biz will lead to easy way to step back in. So if you plan to do something else for awhile be sure you don't mind possibility that you might have to do that second choice job for rest of life.
orhan- we don't need 2-acres. we'll build a vertical farm right above the restaurant. I might need a repelling harness to cultivate and harvest, but hydroponics are well proven in California. There are other cash crops that we might want to consider...
so bear, when is your clan moving westcoast? remember "westward ho market?"
i too was thinking of lacing the farm with some high demand herbal 'cash' crop. but i don't think any 'bud' would last too long near venice high...
so there you have it, Homeboy...
go into your closet, clear out those old models and rolls and rig up a nice HPS....500 watt should do...throw in a bottle of Co2 for good measure....in a couple of months...whaallaah, recession proof business.
or what about online poker?
there are enough out of work contractors on there blowing their unemployment checks....surely you can out smart them with your higher education.
If your on the verge of loosing your hair, your mail....grow it out and do a comb over....and call yourself an Interior Decorator. Ya that should work. I don't think it should take long to learn the names of the major fabric companies.
Backup Job for an Architect
The way things are looking...
If you have been laid off and can't seem to find another job with an architecture firm:
What are possible backup jobs for architects?
Is there something else out there suited for an architects skills?
work for a real estate property manager that has a portfolio of properties.
get an urban and regional planning degree and work for a city plan review.
go become a building commisioner.
Also, what about intern architects? The unlicensed?
graphic design
go the howard roark way and become a tradesman in your prefered material of choice.
his was steel. Granted that was fiction but really pointed in the concept that the more you know what a material can do the better you can design with it.
The unions do have great apprentice prohrams. masons in illinois make 100k on public projects....
I do have quite a bit of experience in steel. I worked as a fabricator for an architectural steel specialty place while in college. What I was assuming though is that even those jobs will be hard to come by as things get worse.
i am thinking of opening a small hole in the wall lunch only restaurant with high quality plastic knives, forks and spoons with biodegradable paper containers.
menu (my sister is working on it);
daily soup
great 5-6 sandwiches (fresh quality bread)
two daily hot dishes (1 with meat)
refrigerated 6-8 meze type, mostly vegetarian and sea food (fresh typical mediterranean with eastern bend. no falafels or kababs. stuff that i know how it should taste)
i would sub contract few deserts and have a small espresso machine.
only bottled sodas and refreshments
mainly take out but 3-4 tables available.
of course, smartly decorated interiors.
name; symrna
isn't there one just like that on Pico? they say they are walking distance to LACMA.
it opened in late november
my father in lawls best friends son opened it up.
That sounds nice Orhan.
I think for someone in my situation (new graduate) there won't be much capital to help with upfront costs for something like that.
Considering loans for new business' probably aren't that frequent right now, is there another way?
most restaurants die in less than one year. the WSJ had a great article on that yesterday.
homebody, i am trying to find money from small investors, so far some tenative okays received.
i am minus balance as we speak. that is making me think all this stuff.;.)
dsc_arch, i don't know the new place, but more the better.
when i was in your situation, younger, out of school and bad economy, i worked as a construction help for a small contractor who did fix-ups. i tell you what, i learned a great deal from that job and when i finally worked doing residential work, i was very well equipped to do the job.
thanks a lot dsc_arch .;.))
you ruined my party!
i know that about restaurants that is why i want to start really small.
Howard Roark worked in a granite quarry
I might be available as your baker - just provide a solar oven!
3d industries - games, viz, film, etc.
My version of your lunch-only eatery is having a small custom furniture shop. I own most of the tools I would need to start this but lack adequate work space at the moment. I even own my own welder. The only thing that makes me think there is any hope for this idea in current times is the 'nesting' instinct most News outlets are playing up at the moment (That most families are spending money for home comforts to weather the storm so to speak).
i'd caution against 3-d games and film unless you are not wanting to ever get back into the field.
we interviewed such a candidate and looked at designing as "set design" only. he had lost all cad skills and knew nothing of real world codes. he needed to go back to entry level.
hmmm. i barely scratched CAD in school and picked it up in maybe a couple days after beginning work at my first firm. i still know nothing about code. but that is what reference books are for, right?
in my (little) experience, it seems project management skills are the most important. regardless of what level you are at, the ability to put this with that is what makes a project. it is a recombinant profession.
Management skills will be required much later. For now being a good team player is paramount.
Architecture is not a recombinant profession. Think of yourself as an orchestra conductor.
Without a working knowledge of the code (IBC and nfpa 101) you are worthless.
Keeping the music analogy, the code is the framework - the understanding of what each instrument can do.
How can you design without knowing what your boundaries such as height and area are. Without knowing what type of construction is required for your building type how can you develop the envelope?
How can you lay out a plan without knowing why and where you need an area of rescue assistance?
Agin, you are the driver not the manager.
I've only heard (cause I've never been) that architecture offers a pretty broad education. Would an architecture degree allow you to go into graphic design without a hitch? Do you guys learn the programs and design principles similar to that profession? I also have the same question for landscape architecture. Would there be no real trouble switching to that career if I had an arch degree or will I be way behind others who took landarch as their masters..
I'm sure you have much more experience than I, but still I have to disagree. The 'boundaries' should be known in the first hours of a project with a simple code search. Of course, as things change code should be re-examined, but... I started at my first firm in May and have been managing my own project since August. (Yes, I am not out of a job YET.) Maybe its the nature of this project, or being new to nearly every experience, but by far the most important thing has been the ability to coordinate my consultants and manage the owners expectations with the realities of our budget. In other words, recombining the information given to me in a coherent set of documents.
I think a cursory knowledge of code is all that has been needed in my case (and the ability to use an Index).
Understanding what an instrument can do doesn't mean you can play it. I believe I have been right to yield to my consultants at times. They know better what is possible or even best for a system than I do.
PinkBug-
Its a comlex question. I think there is crossover when it comes to programs and principles, but mostly its the ability to teach yourself that makes an architectural education 'broad'. Sitting alone and learning programs, theory, construction concepts and design process because formal classes take a lot for granted. Architectural professors in my experience tended to use the "figure it out" line quite a bit.
Just tell them you know it and can do it and figure those things out while their back is turned.
Or maybe that is bad advice... but hey, that's what I do.
I used to think that way when I stared out. however as our experience grew we became the driver and now instruct our consultants / contractors what tune to play.
remember Beethoven was could not hear during his final works but he knew how his music played
sometimes owner / consultant / contractor choices are poor choices for both the use and the budget.
it is your job to learn and then to know.
Pinkbug-
A quick example is when I interviewed for my job at the architectural steel fabrication place: they used Rhino for both design and shop work. I knew it was possible going in so put that I had experience with it on my resume even though I hadn't. This fake experience was definitely a factor for my hiring and once I knew this gave myself a crash course in it before my first day of work and everything went fine.
Ya, its probably a good way to get over your head, and a bit dishonest, but if it becomes truth before the day I start work...then its the truth, right?
barry, since all the produce in the restaurant would be grown by us, i was more thinking of you to be in charge of entire farming operations. hehhe...
treekiller farms!
hmmm.. how about farming? renting two acres of fertile land out there in jobsville and growing organic produce???
equipment needed;
used truck and water tank and some shovels and picks...
While I didn't interview with dsc, my years in hollywood, atrophied my architecture skills to the point that returning to grad school was a must when I choose to return. Choose your career tangents wisely, your might inadvertently be closing doors that will take lots of effort and $ to re-open.
glory hole operator
sounds cool/fun orhan.
is obama bringing back local utopian visions with him? if so, kinda cool. the 60's were sorta of silly but cool cuz everyone was so optimistic in spite of shit going on. we could use some of that again.
homestay, i get you, and code is pretty common-sense anyway, but dsc is correct. you will not be competent till you know how to use the code to get to interesting places. so much of that stuff is counter-intuitive in practice, in spite of being more or less clear on paper. in fact much of architecture is like that. i gurantee you will find yourself someday looking at a problem and someone will give you the answer and you'll say "you can do THAT?"
Co-ordination is just base-line stuff. Directing the people you are co-ordinating is the real job. And it isn't easy if you are ignorant. Feel free to fake your way through things. That is how most of us do it, but don't forget to not fool yourself while you are at it.
Pinkbug, there are lots of overlaps in graphic design and architecture. The software is often shared - I have done some graphic design work on side for money and am not so bad at it. But like any other job experience counts and lack of experience will show. If you want to be a graphic designer go to school that teaches it.
Frankly I am not so sure stepping out of archi-biz will lead to easy way to step back in. So if you plan to do something else for awhile be sure you don't mind possibility that you might have to do that second choice job for rest of life.
orhan- we don't need 2-acres. we'll build a vertical farm right above the restaurant. I might need a repelling harness to cultivate and harvest, but hydroponics are well proven in California. There are other cash crops that we might want to consider...
so bear, when is your clan moving westcoast? remember "westward ho market?"
i too was thinking of lacing the farm with some high demand herbal 'cash' crop. but i don't think any 'bud' would last too long near venice high...
barry, now THAT would be cool.
think obama will fund it?
so there you have it, Homeboy...
go into your closet, clear out those old models and rolls and rig up a nice HPS....500 watt should do...throw in a bottle of Co2 for good measure....in a couple of months...whaallaah, recession proof business.
or what about online poker?
there are enough out of work contractors on there blowing their unemployment checks....surely you can out smart them with your higher education.
If your on the verge of loosing your hair, your mail....grow it out and do a comb over....and call yourself an Interior Decorator. Ya that should work. I don't think it should take long to learn the names of the major fabric companies.
or maybe i should just blast myself
You need a job like this:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/1397167,CST-NWS-watchdog26.article
I liked this part...."His fee was probably half of what everybody else wanted,"
Yeah I would've asked for a million at least....
I want to become a newscaster so I can smile at everyone when I say, you're all f*cked!
thats a mete'HOR'ologist
I liked the idea of the 'Architecture, 5 cents' stand. Maybe that can help pay off school. Maybe I'll call it 'Architecture, 5 sense'
Also I have some elaborate plans to open up a creperie/cafe when we all decide to drop out of school.. or graduate.
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