Non-revenue generating products will starve if they're not killed altogether. Projects the company is just "fiddling with," "will get naturally smaller as people get plucked off."
Does SketchUp generate revenue? There's the $500 "Pro" version, but I would assume most of the millions of downloaded copies are the free version.
that, imho will be a good thing...with the exception of the 3d warehouse, Google has not done anything significant to Sketchup....and there are too many designers who are churning out total crap using Sketchup as the excuse...time for Sketchup to die!
It has it's place but i can see why it wouldn't be profitable and it does cause many headaches for people who have to work with peoples files who make said "crap"
sketchup is a great prog, if you use it "right". we use it for creating mock ups for clients quickly and with precision. also for blocking out space and program planning. plus you can export it in a ton of diff formats and there are some good rendering options for it.
but it's not rhino, so you're sorta stuck w/ squares n circles. there are some nice plugins for it to do more organic shapes though.
but, honestly speaking, sketch up is obsolete, and so long as ppl will continue using it, and abusing it, crap will continue on comming up..i understand ppl sayin its precise and fast and easy to do models for clients, but come on, u cant argue against the fact that it restricts u, in freakin bad way... the things i see comin out because the "designers" used sketchup to design, it breaks my heart
It is the people not the programme that produce the cr@p designs and graphics. Like STU says, if you use Sketchup properly and recognise its limitations, it can do great things (especially considering it is free!)
i think the whole "abusing sketchup" thing is a just alot of 3D snobbery... the only affect of getting rid of sketchup is to further restrict 3D capabilities to the elite 3D people, a little bit out o reach from the average new person to 3D...
sketchup has it's place, i don't see why so many of the l33t 3D artists feel so *threatened* by sketchup... it's 3D for the masses... a good thing IMHO... it gets you a quick and easy model, accurate, without having to fuss with materials or lighting, etc.
lets face it: it's unrealistic to expect that an entire office is going to invest the amount of time needed to master 3DS max or something like that... sketchup is accessible by everyone from the new intern to the autocad veteran...
i can use alot of software... 3ds max, revit, cad, microstation, form z... but i use sketchup to sketch 3D details... send a quick 3D skecth of some details to a contactor or to just get around something in detail in my head (with accurate dimensions)... cad is good, but sometimes you can't quite get the feel for something in 2D only... sketchup is good for quickly sharing something with your peers, its a communication tool... it's good for that, accurate... you can't get those kinds of quick sketches with heavier 3D software IMHO... and honestly, it exports to autocad, so you can send it out to render in another software... the way i use it is: #1. since you can customize all of your keystrokes, i setup all of my keystrokes to mimic 3DS so i can drive it without thinking... #2. I assign "ctrl-G" to group... and continually sketch stuff and group stuff (which basically eliminates the whole line drawing limitation to the thing)...
if i were autodesk, i would integrate sketchup a lttle bit more witth revit... integrate autocad, revit, sketchup, 3Ds max into a design software suite... make them more intuitively transferable and accessible by others who know one software but may not know the other...
Everyone knows sketchup is a basic piece of software which has its uses within the design process, it doesn't make shit architecture, you make shit architecture.
the fundamental problem here is copyright, there are no new ideas much and if we are prevented from freely using those that exist we end up with this monopolized entropy.
open source sure does provide a better way as i see it but even that is not enough with out a critical mass behind it.
one glimmer of hope i do see is in Sweden under 30 50%+ are said to be going to vote for Pirate party. this is the politics that would defeat this stuff that causes so many blatant violations of our human rights preventing up from the access and use to ideas language and the recycling of such.
oh ya, sketchup was developed by @last software bought by google... nevermind...
ic so google might be kicking sketchup to the curb in the downturn...
that would seem to be a mistake, better to sell it to autodesk or bentley or some other... there are some push-pull technologies there that would be useful... or even sell it to adobe maybe... sketchup could be a nice complement to something like acrobat 3D?
"...the fundamental problem here is copyright, there are no new ideas much and if we are prevented from freely using those that exist we end up with this monopolized entropy..."
also see what Jefferson wrote about limited copyright(once somebody else knows it is free game, so protect your invention but only for a limited time will that be allowed till compensate for r&d) and look how Disney has extend it through lobbying to longer than the life of any human to protect the Mickey Mouse that would other wise be public domain now.
"Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." -jefferson
"But grants of this sort can be justified in very peculiar cases only, if at all; the danger being very great that the good resulting from the operation of the monopoly, will be overbalanced by the evil effect of the precedent; and it being not impossible that the monopoly itself, in its original operation, may produce more evil than good."
- madison
math, the arts, etc., suffer unimaginably and think about people in countries with a lower GDP and their access to these ideas that could benefit them most.
I'm just saying the system is broken and those in control are in freefall. time to re-think
so if you have nothing to contribute sister why goad
are you frustrated? if so do you want to share what about? i see your only post is about a copyright issue? are you feeling confused in the current relationship we have with the ownership of knowledge?
"so if you have nothing to contribute sister why goad"
Does incessant cutting and pasting from the internet count?
"... are you frustrated? if so do you want to share what about? i see your only post is about a copyright issue? are you feeling confused in the current relationship we have with the ownership of knowledge? "
See now you've got it... what you're doing there, now THAT'S a form of ad hominem.
emapthy? if you are unwilling to accept or respond or even give yourself some it will not keep me from asking, especially when you get in this post with your 'slanderous nothings'
You are not in a position to be attempting to hand out etiquette lessons on posting, or to be suggesting how empathetic you are to others, or to pose as a supposed purveyor of "peace". Your typcial posts include Googling, cutting and pasting as needed, then wrapping up with a self-righteous but completely useless non sequitur. From what I've read, your views on politics, religion, marriage, women -- name it -- are offensive to me. Really, you seem pretty slimy.
if you are offend give yourself reflection is my advise and be more open to difference, if it doesn't harm your person you are free to look past and own your own emotions
because rather than being defensive i prefer to be vulnerable.
positivity there you go, that is the goal, in this progressive world of every expanding personal freedoms.
maybe i'm just drunk agina and completely daft (dont' answer that)...but i would suspect that Sketchup is one of the few things that actually brings some money into Google. Nearly everything they currently offer is free...and I've known plenty of architects/firms that have purchased legitimate copies of Sketchiup. All things considered, $500 is a pretty reasonable price for a flexible 3D program.
moreover, it would seem that most of the developement costs of the program have already been absorbed. now that it's out there, why pull the plug?
having said that, i would be surprised if sketchup is completely dropped by Google. maybe it would be sold...but i can't imagine it disappearing in the near future.
You're like a one-track robot, Anti. You don't really respond to anyone; you just spool out more of the same.
The reason I'm on you like a dog is that I've grown tired of logging in and finding your quasi-political strewn carelessly throughout an ARCHITECTURE site. Things beyond architecture are discussed, yes. And, they are often entertaining and important. But your constant infusion of intolerant rabble-rousing needs to find a more approporiate home. (Does anyone not understand that you hate George Bush? I think we got that part.) Stop shoving the worst of yourself up everyone's noses. Instead, try posting something you've actually designed / project managed.
Anyway...
No "confusion" on my part. Your condescending views are simple, despite your -- well, odd? -- use of language and facts. Your meanings are still discernable, and they are in many ways stereotypical. I understand what you've posted. AND, I disagree. Got it so far?
And, please, are you the genius you perceive yourself to be? Well, I surely don't think so. Your posts are not unique -- how could they be? -- since you "borrow" the bulk of everything you post from other websites. You bring very little to the table. So, could you then really be SO deep and complicated that I need or want you to "fulfill my understanding"? (Which, for you, evidently would likely mean another round of cutting, pasting, and misrepresenting even more information) Well, no. Thanks for the "offer", but I already fully understand.
Still with me?
I think you need to come to the point where you accept that many people disagree with you. And -- and please absorb this part --when others disagree with you, as I do, or find your views to be offensive, as I do, DO NOT quickly and simply conclude that they don't or can't understand your posts, or that they are too "emotional", or that you need to purvey your profound "enlightenment" upon them. In doing exactly that, you are displaying the height of arrogance.
And make no mistake, your kind of "helpfulness" is easily recognized for exactly what it is. Not all people are that easily manipulated.
In the future, before jumping to the self-serving conclusion that everyone else who disagrees with you is somehow deficient, you need to step back and accept that it is just barely possible that you yourself are very often wrong, offensive, and misguided.
can you be specific, stop acting like you represent anybody other than yourself if you can't name them and take it private rather than projecting, assuming and being off topic? if you can't do that forget it, move on, this is a different type of forum where there is the most liberty to discuss what we would like on a broad range of topics.
besides i am busy managing projects and maybe later i read later your diatribe.
enjoy life and stop thinking you are the authority over anybody it does not help you that i can see.
Oh, I think I have full authority to take issue with your posts.
Specifics? One example: Some time ago you claimed to have gotten married in order to get a friend(s?) into the country. (If you can't remember this, or deny it, , I can repost.) I was flabbergasted that you'd post / admit to something like that. You were adamant about it. Specific enough? Not looking to argue that specific point again, it's clear now and was clear then what you thought about the laws associated with that issue.
So you now say I should "go private" with my posts. But not you? Hmm.
And now, behold, you're far too busy managing projects to read three paragraphs directed specifically at you, but you seem to have had ample time up until now for your little cutting and pasting from other websites exercises.
You really should find the time to read my entire "diatribe", Anti.
I'm glad I posted it, but I know it won't affect you.
should is amstprache the german part of speech used to deny choice to victims of their atrocities, of witch my family is one, if your intention is to hurt others and deny choice good try.
you have no authority
so what if i know people who help people gain citizenship
what i was saying was i give people EU citizenship using marriage gay or otherwise. and that i feel any kind of marriage is be permissible.
again your static labeling and mean spirited postings look very unfavorable towards you could you get on topic or are you just flaming? or do you want to start a new topic to discuss your dislike of people who are progressive?
cause and effect can not be removed from any situation as you so easily assume
i private messaged you in the hopes of resolution to your personal problems with me. see you there if you so choose.
It's Antisthenes, like the Philospher. Antis-thenes
algor swallowed by autodesk, sketchup may be cut?
just 2 interesting pieces of news i read today
Non-revenue generating products will starve if they're not killed altogether. Projects the company is just "fiddling with," "will get naturally smaller as people get plucked off."http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2008/12/will-sketchup-survive-googles-downturn.html
Does SketchUp generate revenue? There's the $500 "Pro" version, but I would assume most of the millions of downloaded copies are the free version.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Autodesk-to-Acquire-ALGOR-prnews-13854199.html
that, imho will be a good thing...with the exception of the 3d warehouse, Google has not done anything significant to Sketchup....and there are too many designers who are churning out total crap using Sketchup as the excuse...time for Sketchup to die!
It has it's place but i can see why it wouldn't be profitable and it does cause many headaches for people who have to work with peoples files who make said "crap"
i am kind of bummed out about the Algor thing because i used that for FEA on a few projects
maybe it is time to find an alternative tool that can do the same for me on the particular building system that i used it for.
Antisthenes,
What did the Algor program do for your project?
showed where the strong and weak points would be in a monolithic home.
. the structural
sketchup is a great prog, if you use it "right". we use it for creating mock ups for clients quickly and with precision. also for blocking out space and program planning. plus you can export it in a ton of diff formats and there are some good rendering options for it.
but it's not rhino, so you're sorta stuck w/ squares n circles. there are some nice plugins for it to do more organic shapes though.
just wanted to add some supportive for SU
i agree with the arguments of both camps,
but, honestly speaking, sketch up is obsolete, and so long as ppl will continue using it, and abusing it, crap will continue on comming up..i understand ppl sayin its precise and fast and easy to do models for clients, but come on, u cant argue against the fact that it restricts u, in freakin bad way... the things i see comin out because the "designers" used sketchup to design, it breaks my heart
It is the people not the programme that produce the cr@p designs and graphics. Like STU says, if you use Sketchup properly and recognise its limitations, it can do great things (especially considering it is free!)
I've seen a lot of crap designs done by using rhino or Revit or AutoCAD... does that make those programs "crap?"
i think the whole "abusing sketchup" thing is a just alot of 3D snobbery... the only affect of getting rid of sketchup is to further restrict 3D capabilities to the elite 3D people, a little bit out o reach from the average new person to 3D...
sketchup has it's place, i don't see why so many of the l33t 3D artists feel so *threatened* by sketchup... it's 3D for the masses... a good thing IMHO... it gets you a quick and easy model, accurate, without having to fuss with materials or lighting, etc.
lets face it: it's unrealistic to expect that an entire office is going to invest the amount of time needed to master 3DS max or something like that... sketchup is accessible by everyone from the new intern to the autocad veteran...
i can use alot of software... 3ds max, revit, cad, microstation, form z... but i use sketchup to sketch 3D details... send a quick 3D skecth of some details to a contactor or to just get around something in detail in my head (with accurate dimensions)... cad is good, but sometimes you can't quite get the feel for something in 2D only... sketchup is good for quickly sharing something with your peers, its a communication tool... it's good for that, accurate... you can't get those kinds of quick sketches with heavier 3D software IMHO... and honestly, it exports to autocad, so you can send it out to render in another software... the way i use it is: #1. since you can customize all of your keystrokes, i setup all of my keystrokes to mimic 3DS so i can drive it without thinking... #2. I assign "ctrl-G" to group... and continually sketch stuff and group stuff (which basically eliminates the whole line drawing limitation to the thing)...
if i were autodesk, i would integrate sketchup a lttle bit more witth revit... integrate autocad, revit, sketchup, 3Ds max into a design software suite... make them more intuitively transferable and accessible by others who know one software but may not know the other...
actually include also: ecotect
so make this the new autodesk design suite:
- autocad
- revit
- 3ds max
- sketchup
- ecotect
and sell some 'lite suites" that drop a couple of the those... why drop sketchup, just throw it into the mix...
algor
&
XSI
on the list
sketchup is not autodesk
How much more software do we need? When is Autodesk going to actually produce something new and innovative in-house?
they can't... that's why they keep buying up all the other ideas on the market.
I would guess soon...Robert Aish is there afterall.
Everyone knows sketchup is a basic piece of software which has its uses within the design process, it doesn't make shit architecture, you make shit architecture.
the fundamental problem here is copyright, there are no new ideas much and if we are prevented from freely using those that exist we end up with this monopolized entropy.
open source sure does provide a better way as i see it but even that is not enough with out a critical mass behind it.
one glimmer of hope i do see is in Sweden under 30 50%+ are said to be going to vote for Pirate party. this is the politics that would defeat this stuff that causes so many blatant violations of our human rights preventing up from the access and use to ideas language and the recycling of such.
kardiogramm - ad ad hominem there buddy.
oh ya, sketchup was developed by @last software bought by google... nevermind...
ic so google might be kicking sketchup to the curb in the downturn...
that would seem to be a mistake, better to sell it to autodesk or bentley or some other... there are some push-pull technologies there that would be useful... or even sell it to adobe maybe... sketchup could be a nice complement to something like acrobat 3D?
adobe acquisitions i can think of.. cool edit pro. 1 any else?
and didn't autocad add sketchup abilities in 2009, not that anybody i know uses them
i think adobe stays away from cad and Bentley does their own thing?
i'm quite exited about bonzai 3d by the makers of formZ
http://www.bonzai3d.com/
"...the fundamental problem here is copyright, there are no new ideas much and if we are prevented from freely using those that exist we end up with this monopolized entropy..."
You seem lazy. Very, very lazy.
ya like it allot less lazy to try and defy the laws of mathematics
Look into the Pirate Party platform it holds the future of human freedom from the tyranny of the corporation that we invented. Emancipation is at hand
"ya like it allot less lazy to try and defy the laws of mathematics"
Meaning?
meaning ideas can not be owned
"Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." -jeffersonhow do you feel about life being owned? GMOs , patents on genes
http://www.pirate-party.us/
also see what Jefferson wrote about limited copyright(once somebody else knows it is free game, so protect your invention but only for a limited time will that be allowed till compensate for r&d) and look how Disney has extend it through lobbying to longer than the life of any human to protect the Mickey Mouse that would other wise be public domain now.
"But grants of this sort can be justified in very peculiar cases only, if at all; the danger being very great that the good resulting from the operation of the monopoly, will be overbalanced by the evil effect of the precedent; and it being not impossible that the monopoly itself, in its original operation, may produce more evil than good."
- madison
math, the arts, etc., suffer unimaginably and think about people in countries with a lower GDP and their access to these ideas that could benefit them most.
I'm just saying the system is broken and those in control are in freefall. time to re-think
"I'm just saying the system is broken and those in control are in freefall. time to re-think.."
You mean the system that was invented by those you're now sloppily quoting?
Lessig is running for office
http://wiki.lessig.org/index.php/Talk:Against_perpetual_copyright
your ad hominem falls on deaf ears bro. If you had a point or a rational thing to say maybe we could listen.
My ad hominem? It's not "ad hominem" to point out a logic error.
Your demand for a "point or a rational thing to say" is my favorite.
The ball is in your court on that one -- "bro".
so if you have nothing to contribute sister why goad
are you frustrated? if so do you want to share what about? i see your only post is about a copyright issue? are you feeling confused in the current relationship we have with the ownership of knowledge?
"so if you have nothing to contribute sister why goad"
Does incessant cutting and pasting from the internet count?
"... are you frustrated? if so do you want to share what about? i see your only post is about a copyright issue? are you feeling confused in the current relationship we have with the ownership of knowledge? "
See now you've got it... what you're doing there, now THAT'S a form of ad hominem.
emapthy? if you are unwilling to accept or respond or even give yourself some it will not keep me from asking, especially when you get in this post with your 'slanderous nothings'
peace brother/sister ?
Anti --
You are not in a position to be attempting to hand out etiquette lessons on posting, or to be suggesting how empathetic you are to others, or to pose as a supposed purveyor of "peace". Your typcial posts include Googling, cutting and pasting as needed, then wrapping up with a self-righteous but completely useless non sequitur. From what I've read, your views on politics, religion, marriage, women -- name it -- are offensive to me. Really, you seem pretty slimy.
Enjoy your views, no is stopping you.
if you are offend give yourself reflection is my advise and be more open to difference, if it doesn't harm your person you are free to look past and own your own emotions
because rather than being defensive i prefer to be vulnerable.
positivity there you go, that is the goal, in this progressive world of every expanding personal freedoms.
Just when I thought you couldn't come off any more incoherent.
are you confused and need clarity? i am glad if i can give it to fulfill your understanding
maybe i'm just drunk agina and completely daft (dont' answer that)...but i would suspect that Sketchup is one of the few things that actually brings some money into Google. Nearly everything they currently offer is free...and I've known plenty of architects/firms that have purchased legitimate copies of Sketchiup. All things considered, $500 is a pretty reasonable price for a flexible 3D program.
moreover, it would seem that most of the developement costs of the program have already been absorbed. now that it's out there, why pull the plug?
having said that, i would be surprised if sketchup is completely dropped by Google. maybe it would be sold...but i can't imagine it disappearing in the near future.
defiantly it will face competition from the program Bonzi3d.
Where is this new Form Z program? Has anyone seen it in the wild?
Everyone but Anti, sorry, bear with me...
You're like a one-track robot, Anti. You don't really respond to anyone; you just spool out more of the same.
The reason I'm on you like a dog is that I've grown tired of logging in and finding your quasi-political strewn carelessly throughout an ARCHITECTURE site. Things beyond architecture are discussed, yes. And, they are often entertaining and important. But your constant infusion of intolerant rabble-rousing needs to find a more approporiate home. (Does anyone not understand that you hate George Bush? I think we got that part.) Stop shoving the worst of yourself up everyone's noses. Instead, try posting something you've actually designed / project managed.
Anyway...
No "confusion" on my part. Your condescending views are simple, despite your -- well, odd? -- use of language and facts. Your meanings are still discernable, and they are in many ways stereotypical. I understand what you've posted. AND, I disagree. Got it so far?
And, please, are you the genius you perceive yourself to be? Well, I surely don't think so. Your posts are not unique -- how could they be? -- since you "borrow" the bulk of everything you post from other websites. You bring very little to the table. So, could you then really be SO deep and complicated that I need or want you to "fulfill my understanding"? (Which, for you, evidently would likely mean another round of cutting, pasting, and misrepresenting even more information) Well, no. Thanks for the "offer", but I already fully understand.
Still with me?
I think you need to come to the point where you accept that many people disagree with you. And -- and please absorb this part --when others disagree with you, as I do, or find your views to be offensive, as I do, DO NOT quickly and simply conclude that they don't or can't understand your posts, or that they are too "emotional", or that you need to purvey your profound "enlightenment" upon them. In doing exactly that, you are displaying the height of arrogance.
And make no mistake, your kind of "helpfulness" is easily recognized for exactly what it is. Not all people are that easily manipulated.
In the future, before jumping to the self-serving conclusion that everyone else who disagrees with you is somehow deficient, you need to step back and accept that it is just barely possible that you yourself are very often wrong, offensive, and misguided.
can you be specific, stop acting like you represent anybody other than yourself if you can't name them and take it private rather than projecting, assuming and being off topic? if you can't do that forget it, move on, this is a different type of forum where there is the most liberty to discuss what we would like on a broad range of topics.
besides i am busy managing projects and maybe later i read later your diatribe.
enjoy life and stop thinking you are the authority over anybody it does not help you that i can see.
Happy New years buddy.
Oh, I think I have full authority to take issue with your posts.
Specifics? One example: Some time ago you claimed to have gotten married in order to get a friend(s?) into the country. (If you can't remember this, or deny it, , I can repost.) I was flabbergasted that you'd post / admit to something like that. You were adamant about it. Specific enough? Not looking to argue that specific point again, it's clear now and was clear then what you thought about the laws associated with that issue.
So you now say I should "go private" with my posts. But not you? Hmm.
And now, behold, you're far too busy managing projects to read three paragraphs directed specifically at you, but you seem to have had ample time up until now for your little cutting and pasting from other websites exercises.
You really should find the time to read my entire "diatribe", Anti.
I'm glad I posted it, but I know it won't affect you.
Wind it up, Robot Boy.
should is amstprache the german part of speech used to deny choice to victims of their atrocities, of witch my family is one, if your intention is to hurt others and deny choice good try.
you have no authority
so what if i know people who help people gain citizenship
what i was saying was i give people EU citizenship using marriage gay or otherwise. and that i feel any kind of marriage is be permissible.
again your static labeling and mean spirited postings look very unfavorable towards you could you get on topic or are you just flaming? or do you want to start a new topic to discuss your dislike of people who are progressive?
cause and effect can not be removed from any situation as you so easily assume
i private messaged you in the hopes of resolution to your personal problems with me. see you there if you so choose.
It's Antisthenes, like the Philospher. Antis-thenes
Bloody heck, this guy can't be stopped!
Private messaged me?
What's next, ya comin' over for dinner tonight?
Lemme look outside here...you're not waiting for me out in my car are you?
Anti, I'm a married man. This 'you and me' thing just isn't gonna happen.
enjoy the party. say what up to your wifey for me. what color is your car i think i am in the wrong one. what are you cooking i have a special diet.
at least per has company...without anti he would be all alone with his imaginary waffles.
peace out to the 08 all you nectors out there.
p.s.
sketchup blows.
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