7.4

WOW

why is C- not a passing grade? shouldn't everything but an F be passing? isn't that the definition of F?

not for grad school...

architecture is way over-rated

k4dmonk3y: it's too bad you didn't figure out sooner that you're not good with architecture... no matter what you do in life, it's total BS if you have to sacrifice your personal life to fulfill it.

not to say you're this way, but a fair share of students who end up having their personal lives fall apart do so because of horrendous time management skills. it's no surprise considering how social the studio atmosphere can be, but still - there are quite a few social butterflies who would do much better and sacrifice less if they just did their fucking work!

have you considered a different graduate school? there's not a single black turtleneck or thick-framed set of glasses at my school (carleton), which is more about art and working with hands than it is about being stylish (which is where those who "dress the part" tend to fall - at the schools which are all about style). i know we're not the only school like that either, so maybe you just need to find the right one.

then again it's your call, so best of luck to you in the future!

lurker here, and well, this post made me register so I can comment.

First of all - this would make a great statement of interest... would you mind if I stole it :)

Second, if you truly have a passion for architecture then don't let them win. Appeal your grade, it can work. I had a lousy grade from a prof who just plain didn't get me and we did NOT see eye to eye all term long. Because of this, I had spoken to profs of other studios for some guidance and they seemed to understand and appreciate my ideas. I wasn't about to change everything just to suit professor cranky, so I received my crap ass grade and appealed. The appeal board decided it was an unfair mark and upped it... not a lot, but enough for me to stay in the program. You never know.

Third, the real world is not architecture school. Once you find a firm that you fit with, it can be really great.
Good luck.

Let's see... In your last missive, you described your co-workers as "4 Gorillas, 7 CAD lemurs (including myself), and a few dung beetles that push a broom around pretending to be useful" and you couldn't figure out why your boss apparently hates you.

Now, you describe your fellow students as "thick glasses, black turtle neck wearing, moleskin carrying bull shit artists" and can't figure out why you got a crappy grade in studio.

I'm starting to sense a pattern here. Call it a hunch, but I'm guessing your shitty attitude might be the reason you're having so much difficulty in the architecture world. (I speak from experience here, as I had pretty much the same attitude early in my career.)

lesov, be my guest. do whatever turns you on.

lg... my attitude is far from negative. its anger. I don't know how many chances I have to give to this profession before i'm feed up. and to be honest I am at the crossroads right now. to lie and say I have not had great moments at school and work are a lie. do I come on here and post every thing is so good and dandy. I am a lurker, but only post when I am my lows. there are moments where you just need to get it off your chest and you have no one to express it too. so where do I turn to? archinect of course! consider the later and today's post 'rants'. not someone who just constantly complains about the profession. if there was no love or interest... i wouldnt be here in the first place. just wondering... do you wear turtlenecks now? need to know, because if I have too... lol nevermind. :P

ignore bad grammar and replace 'anger' with 'frustrations'

well, k4dm, is there anything else you'd rather do with your career? because if there is, then architecture ain't for you. if there isn't, then you gotta stick with it, and figure out how to deal with it.

k4dm0Nk3y,

sounds like you wanna quit. Having engaged in this sick field for almost ten years, and finished m.arch, I should say, hard time always came without any stop accasionally or timely, however, the sweetness always came by after this.

i guess my point is, could you stick to this hard time, and do you still trust yourself that hard time is finally gonna be overcomed? if it is, you do not need suggestion anymore.

btw, definately, C is a painful grade, but never mind too much, you grade your work by yourself eventually, which called confidence. Grade A does not mean he/her is better, thus, C maybe the best.

ryan, do you mean life? or architecture in general?

xing, thank you. I am so confused right now. I know I shouldn't let people walk all over me and take my dreams away. I am so weak though, however to be where I am today... I know I am strong. I know I can overcome this, its just I do not have anyone to relate to. I have one to turn for guidance, but myself. Right now how can I guide myself after a low blow like this? Its a slap in the face. I know I can overcome it, even if I have to retake the studio, but I just do not want to do it anymore. I am mentally and physically exhausted. The energy and life of me have been sucked out.

Architecture is a job. No matter how much you love it, identify with it, live it, whatever, ultimately, it is a job that you get up and go to work and sit at a desk and work for somebody else and then one day work for yourself (which is to say, work for your clients and your employees) and you cherish the moments that make it all worthwhile. Just like any other job. The men and women who work at OMA, at H&deM, at SANAA, etc. all get up and go to work there and don't kid yourself that they can't wait to get home and do other shit too. It's a great job -- I love it -- and frankly it's a hell of a lot better than 99.999% of jobs out there -- but you know what, it is still just a job. Even that day you walk into a space you yourself conceived in your mind, then drew on paper, then babysat all through construction -- even the day you get published -- still, still architecture isn't 100% of who you are, of your life, of your love. It is a part. That's all.

Your life isn't ruined. The arc of your life is long and it is just beginning. You have a long road ahead of you. You will love, you will live, you will work, and it ain't over yet. Don't let yourself fall into a pit because of one semester -- 4 months -- of your long, beautiful life.

How on earth could anybody else take your dreams away?

I predict that after some sleep and a 2 week break you will come back and read this and realize how absurd it all is.

Black outfits and Moleskine...you are in NYC right? So am I...

Yes getting a C in grad school is hard, but do not quit...you might be on probation but understand that what's done is done and you will not have that studio instructor again...because you will have good and bad teacher no matter what level you are at...

Some people left after the first semester, and maybe this what the best thing for them...as many times as I wanted to walk away I know that I would have a whole bunch of regret following me...

Getting through school is not easy because if it was then everyone would do it.In this volatile job market, I would stick it out and realize your interests and explore them in grad school and get the most out of your education.

look into industrial design/exhibit design.... theres less bullshit and you make better money... less stress.....

i sort of got fed-up with the arch. field myself...... so i stopped looking for work in the field... and what do you know....

don't let the smoke screens and bullshit trick you.......if you like the field then stick with it...

i hated my first three years studying, and then took two years of internships and absolutely loved working!!! now i have to go back to study tho, hoping to switch schools...

have you worked yet?

speaking of black turtlenecks, they are hard to find this season. except for that 500 dollar cashmere number i saw at nordstroms.

sounds like you need a transfer.

i feel like i've heard that whole rant before, although reconfigured and from different people - all of whom were the lower scoring students in their studios.

one issue that was fairly universal among them is that they thought they knew better than the instructor, rather than letting go a little and letting the instructor teach. sure you're smart, sure you can do good things, but that's not why you're in arch school. you're in school to develop your skills and knowledge through interaction with people who have done different things and have experience with things that have resulted in their selection as instructors.

did you take from them what you could? did you listen and learn - or were you smarter than them and did your own thing?

i'm not un-sympathetic. i'm serious about the transfer. see if you can identify a school that is teaching something more in line with the way you want to learn. it may not be an ivy or a school that you think is notable enough - it may be [gasp!] a state school. but the lesser-celebrated have their niche and respond to certain strengths in their students and, if producing good solid client-driven architecture is what you want, that might be the fit.

if architecture is truly what you want, you just have to figure out a way to get there. take a year off, work in an office, research other masters programs, and come back and enjoy your grad school experience. it should be a treat, something that challenges and enriches a curious mind. if it's a chore and if it means throwing away the rest of what might make your life balance, you gotta rethink/redirect.

good luck.

Quit, the world needs more ditch diggers.

Judge Smails

Here's another possibility... It sounds to me like k4dm0Nk3y is trying to blame others for his problems. Maybe it's not your boss and your professors.. Perhaps the problem is you. There are students in architecture school who just don't get it, and maybe you are one of them. But of course, there are also idiot bully professors.

Either way, it's a horrible time to be studying archtiecture since there won't be jobs for the inexperienced for the next ten years, so maybe this "crossroads" is a blessing in disguise.

By the way, I'm sick of young architecture students who have really unfounded belief in their own talent--and who don't think they need to learn anything in school. It reminds me of American Idol. You know, the early episodes where everyone knows the guy can't sing except for the guy doing the singing? I've seen a lot more of this attitude from Gen Y and Z, by the way. Entitlement.

Agreed... I used to be one of the know-it-all kids during my first couple years in school, and it made life miserable for myself and everybody around me... And of course, I did lots of whining about how much I hated architectural education in general and my school in particular. If I had known about Archinect at the time, I'm sure my early posts would have looked a lot like k4dm0Nk3y's.

I never really got a clue until I threw away my Ayn Rand books and realized that most of the professors -- even the bad ones -- know more than I do about the given subject matter, and that I could learn a lot from the other students in the section. It wasn't an easy attitude adjustment to make, and it didn't happen overnight (I dropped out of school altogether for several years while I made several failed attempts to get my shit together), but I've been making pretty much straight A's since I started classes again, and I've been having a much better time at my job. Not that I still don't struggle often, but things got a lot easier once I came down off my high horse and started making an effort to learn.

That said, I still think my first school was a terrible fit for me (I picked it for all the wrong reasons), and maybe k4dm0Nk3y should consider transferring to a different program. But if the problem is with his attitude, then I doubt he'll be much happier in any other program, or with life in general.

you got a C
so you take one studio over, what is the big deal?
what grade did you expect to get?

just because you are in grad school doesnt mean you should get all A's all the time


you are letting your dream die because of a C?
it doesnt sound like it was that big of a dream if one hurdle like this stops you
if you thought you could reach your dream with no bumps, you were probably kidding yourself


what did your professor actually say to you about your work?
what was said at your final presentation?
putting in long hours is not a prerequisite to an A or even a passing grade in grad school (or arch school in general)
i remember tons of students who claimed to work 72 straight hours, then not have their work done to present
long hours is not the only thing to get a passing grade in arch school

you need to realign your attitude and priorities and then you can achieve your dream
one C should not stop you
no one will ever ask you what you got in your first year studio in grad school, trust me

WOW, sounds like we go to the same college with the same exact incompetent faculty members. Don't give up, you have made it this far. Especially because of a C- grade. There does exist those horrible teachers that grade based on his relationship with his students. Even if thats not the case what I'm saying is, that is a minor speed bump in your career, don't let it stop you from doing what you want. Just trying to cheer you up, good luck.

i was in a studio where there were 12 students
we had a competition to do a house, and were selecting 4 winners, where we would then break into 4 groups to further develop the drawings to buildable standards

i was one of the winners, and my group of 3 soon turned to 2 because one student flaked and dropped
so i had a group of 2, and everyone else had a group of 3

we finish the semester, and i got a B+ while the other 3 winners got A's

i could have made a huge stink saying, oh well my team was down a person, we had an unfair advantage, blah blah blah

someone in class actually told me i had to go talk to the dean about it
seriously?

the reality is that it doesnt matter
no one will ever ask you what your grade was, or how many studios you took over


all of your work in studios is to build up your skills and your design portfolio
view school that way, and you wont get so down about things like this

I think a LOT if not 100% of how we feel about a situation is attitude. We think something, and believe it to be true, then look for evidence everywhere to prove it to be true. Like the movie 13 with Jim Carrey. If the general attitude is negative, I think we'll see anything in our environment through those tinted glasses, no matter where we are or what we do. And judging from your previous post about your job and then your school, this might apply. Then we blame everything on the outside of us, and depend on things on the outside to make us happy. Which can be a recipe for unhappiness. the outside rarely matches what we think it needs to be to make us happy. But what do I know.

for me, I started seeing how I made myself miserable and that it didn't necessarily have anything to do with what I was doing or who was around me. I used to think along similar lines as you but only about art school instead of architecture. like your post

"I am sick of all the thick glasses, black turtle neck wearing, moleskin carrying bull shit artists that walk behind these walls. They are all morons! They are absolutely NO ONE once they leave the walls of the architecture building. They are so out of touch of the real world that nobody cares about them. They need to feel special so they lurk around the School of Architecture building to put down kids and don't even bother to give any type guidance or motivation."

I thought the same things about artists. But now as I look back I realize a lot of my thoughts and opinions were just as much BS as I was accusing them of having. Changed my view and how I saw things. Now I think twice about the thoughts that run through my head and don't believe everything it says. I'm a lot more optimistic that's for sure and more understanding of other people that I might find distasteful.

As architecture students (and architects too of course) we fail hundreds of times per day. Studio is difficult in that way because professors expect all those failures to just wrap themselves up into a bundle of creatively-genius production that wows them for the 20 minutes they actually take to look at it. In that respect, what does getting a C really mean in the long run?

I agree with mantaray...it is tough to remember but critical to be reminded of that this is just a job, a part of your life, not in any way shape or form who you actually are or become. To further that, your studio professor can offer you only one opinion, which represents a negligible portion of an entire architectural audience.

So what you're saying is you're going to quit something you love to do because a single person in this enormous world had an opinion of you and your work during the course of 4 months of your architectural exploration (where students are meant to learn by failing), and after that person judged all of it in a mere 20 minutes or less?

I am a grad student as well, and the problem I have with myself is that I don't take enough risks. Getting an A in studio every semester is nice, but when I look back I'm constantly reminded that I am probably not exploring to the best of my ability, because I am not failing. What do you think an A in studio means? For me it means that you're probably playing it safe in some way, doing what you already know works, and you're not exploring enough.

We are in school to fail. So it sucks that you have to re-take studio, really sucks, but on top of all it already does for us, school prepares our confidence and our drive to surpass whatever critics and adversities we may encounter along the way. Good luck.

Very true, JC. I would love to have you as a student.

i'm all for bad attitudes. the doctor philisms spouted on this thread are pathetic. take you last lecture warm bunny don't forget to wear sunscreen unsolicited advice and move along.

its pathetic to fail something and then just blame everyone else except yourself

Never surrender! Although an attitude adjustment may be in order. I had a rough time in my undergraduate education, but in retrospect a lot of it was self inflicted. I was seeking two degrees, architecture and landscape architecture ( I know, crazy) and was working anywhere between 15 and 30 hours a week between multiple part-time jobs ( yes, absolutely bat shit crazy). I got a few C+'s in a studio and other classes, and managed somehow to keep my gpa just barely above a 3.0. There were multiple times I thought about quitting, but my stubbornness kept me from doing so. I liked architecture too much to quit. Instead I look back and think "lesson learned" and even if there was a chance for me to have done better if I had focused on just architecture and robbed a bank to pay for it all, I don't think I would have learned as much as I did. I found my limits, and I had the piss beat out of me. So I think you need to just chalk it up to life experience. Find what went wrong and what went right in that studio. Figure out how to use the experience and get back on the horse.

Thanks mantaray.

and vado...the whole thing is actually funny. starting this thread is like calling 911 before you're about to commit suicide...so my guess is k4dm0Nk3y doesn't really want to go through with it...

k4dm0Nk3y, ur post resonates with my own predicament! Although I did not get a C but the B I got certainly feels like a blow to the hard work that I place into my work! With the said, there are not enough B’s or C’s to make me quit my dream. Nor should you! Without getting all cliché on ya I do wanna remind you of this “nothing worth having comes easy” so work hard and do your part and remember obstacles are there to get you stronger and ready for better positions. So plz don’t quit!

why is getting a B a problem?
hard work does not guarantee you an A and shouldnt

this is all so subjective, and many times you will hear that a professor has a certain number of A's he will give, and if more are deserving, it doesnt matter

it shouldnt bother anyone that much
no one will ever ask or care what your grades are

as long as you are happy with your portfolio, that is all that matters

j'aime

I like what you said. You've had right internships I suppose.

School is about experimenting and taking risks to the point you might even fail the class. If a c in a single term makes you give up this whole profession, I don't think you'll survive in the real work field.

First off. Thank you all for taking the time with the encouraging words. Second, not that anyone cares... I was put on academic probation and have left the School of Architecture. It was not a matter of them putting me on probation that I made this decision. It's been weeks prior. I honestly sat down and thought this over. My heart for architecture has reached its final beat. There is no more love. It is no longer fun for me, and I simply don't care. It's not an attitude problem I have, I'm very optimisic about everything. It's gone. That's it. Wish I would have realized this sooner. It took some time for me to do a little general reading to come to a point where I have realize how much bullshit the educational system is. We all need to be Captain Planet and save the world!!!
Adding more to the equation:

Bad economic times renders this profession an emotional rollercoaster.

Poor pay, I actually hacked into the salary program at my last job to find out my project manager I worked under was only getting 4k more than me on his yearly salary. This guy looked his balls were in a vice 24/7. Life is too short.

Seeing ads for unpaid internships, hilarious.

Locked in front of a monitor at all times

No benefits.

No respect in the real world. "Just glorified drafters"

Long hours, with no overtime

Stress

Family life?

Dealing with other ego's that everything they touch in architecture has to change the fucking world.

::insert other great benefits right here::

---
I thought giving this post another read would change my mind, its been static ever since.

I can now see my peers talking for the 5 seconds of time for what I am worth saying 'good riddance to that fool, he never belonged'.
I am going towards another field that. I know it's not an easy walk of 6-7 years, but I am still young. Plus the time and effort I put in will shine. At the end, I will have a job that I do not have to worry about which side the economy on, with amazing pay, hours to spend time with family, and a chance to help people on a hand to hand scale and changing their lives.

Guess I was never for design. Like a someone stated above "I just don't get it"

it is much like a cop who gives you a ticket
sure you are the customer /subject but they are the tool to extract money from you to keep you a conformed paying costumer.

key: having sucked up more and held a veneer of positivity

good luck in your future career...

btw - in the future, why don't you just ask the prof why you received a low grade? if it's an easy fix, you might be able to work something out with the prof and the program director to bring up your grade. this is grad school, not elementary school.

Why do architecture schools inflate students' and teachers' egos?
Does anyone have an answer? I have been wondering this ever since I started architecture school some years ago and the deeper I get into this envoronment the more I realize it is so.

Do we need to develope a superstar personality to succeed in this field?
Isn't architecture about "believing" rather than "substance"? It's an art not a science after all....

Just my 2 cents of provocation....

"You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake." Tyler Durden

oh snap!

really though think long term life goals. What do you want to be doing in ten years? Does grinning and bearing architecture school help with this?

And maybe I'm a freak, but I find when I do what my professors want me to do and stray away from what I want to do I learn a lot. I can do exactly what I want to do when I get out of school...or in my spare time...hey I'm an optimist!

but anyways your professors are suppose to drag you through the ringer and if one of them sucks bear it, and if they all suck, go to a different school.

Wait, k4d you hacked your old job's salary program? A GRADE in school crushed your dreams? ARCHITECTURE "destroyed your life?" Everyone around you is magically intellectually inferior?

A lot of people, myself included, have serious conflicts with their schools, get crappy grades, get angry for assorted reasons - but this is just beyond. It completely boggles my mind how mediocre reception in a studio course could cause extensive psychological havoc. It either means some jackass critic doesn't "get" you which is basically irrelevant to your own practice... or else it means that you should improve because your output is truly sub-par. Both of these things can be managed. Calm the f down.

I have to agree with SurfaceS on this one... The OP'er comes across as somebody with a shitty attitude and a massive chip on their shoulder, and this profession has too many people like that in its ranks already. Good riddance.

and school is the best part!

K4,

When I was in school I also had my issues because I was designing technically buildable and site coherent projects not Gehryish crap like many of my classmates. Anyway, I did not bend over to follow what I was told 100%. I had to demonstrate that my designs were coherent even though the professors didn't like them. I was proved right when I got my degree since only 21 out of 32 graduated, The rest either quit or were expelled after probation, just like you. That's the whole point of Architecture school...you have to demonstrate you have the balls or not.

This post exemplifies why I find more value in design education than in design practice - self reflection is OH so lacking for the upright species of this planet, as a whole.

Awareness of performance is so very critical - and if it weren't for experiences like OPs of my very own, I would not understand as much about myself as I do now (mostly, how much work I have yet to do in that respect).

Architecture is like Navy SEALS - It requires an enormous amount of self discipline and sacrifice - I used to live in San Diego, and nearby, was the Navy Seals BUD school, 70 percent would wash out. Why? because they wouldn't do what it takes. If you do what it takes no matter, and "take the Pain" you just might make it.