Season's Greetings! I am attending a graduate program in the Fall 09, but with the current economic conditions, I've been having second thoughts. I know how rewarding the profession can be, as i had a great time earning my B.S. Arch. The only things that are weighing me down are TIME & MONEY, both of which the profession is known to lack. The current economic condition makes those two factors ever heavier.
How many hours/week do you work in the Spring/Summer? Fall/Winter? Do you think your pay is worth it?
PS:
I would go into another field for a decade or so and jump back when I'm financially able to. My family thinks it's a stupid idea. What do you guys think? :)
I think in this economy the prospects for astronauts are better than for architects.
No matter what job you go into, you will likely be working long hours for less pay than you think you're worth. This is true for me as well as for my friends who are doctors, accountants, real estate agents, hairdressers, schoolteachers, and motivational speakers.
If you want to be an architect, riding out the recession in grad school is not a bad idea *IF* you are not going deep into debt to do so. A little school debt is OK, if you're looking at 6 figures or close to it, I'd say reconsider.
40 hours almost always, anything more and I am paid for overtime. that applies to everyone in my small firm outside of maybe boss man but even he tries to keep it to 40.
there are really so many variable involved in the number of hours one works... asking for averages will be of little help to you. There are high end design offices where you may consistently work 70+ hours a week. There are low end lazy offices happy to get by on corporate bank renovations where you'll be bored out of your mind working just 40 hours.
Or, most likely, you'll fall somewhere in the middle. There will be slow weeks where youre working 8-6 and getting out on time, and there will be huge deadlines when you'll be working 8-12 for a month straight.
in the end though, averaging it all out, be prepared for 10 hours of OT a week on average... it seems to me that might mean a few weeks of 40 hours, and a lot of weeks of 70 or so.
after all things are considered though, definitely try to find an office where you'll be paid for your overtime... Its incredibly frustrating to sit down and calculate that your hourly earnings after school and years of working are very often lower than your hourly earnings at your HS summer jobs
once i was asked to work extended overtime and some weekend time, so 65-70 per week for about 3 months, but that was a special case where we inherited the project that was insanely behind schedule and the owner was about to fire us.
it was an option though, and since it was a cooler type project than usual, and the team was good, i agreed to it.
i got some extra vacation that year as compensation.
working consistent overtime is really being taken advantage of if your heart isnt in it, or you have to do it all the time
if they ever make you do it, you are being taken advantage of
of course in these economic times, i would rather be taken advantage of than not have a job at all
50 hours a week. Long distance travel often occurs on weekends. No comp time for travel or late nighters, and close accounting on vacation time accrual. "Workweek" compensation calculations exclude "lunch" hour, which is often not actually taken by staff.
once i was asked to work extended overtime and some weekend time, so 65-70 per week for about 3 months, but that was a special case where we inherited the project that was insanely behind schedule and the owner was about to fire us.
If that happened to me I'd seriously have to question why my firm couldn't have spread the project among more staff so as not to necessitate overworking people so much.
It depends. Things are slowing down so I've been doing 40's lately, but that's a bit scary given a historical average of 50. Unless major deadlines or travel is on the schedule I try to limit myself to no more than 50 hour/weeks. Gotta maintain some sanity. I think the 60+ hour weeks are mostly unnecessary. Many architects I've met are major time wasters. Some employers demand it, IMO because they are cheap and want more production without more pay, but is anyone that efficient after 10+ hours working each day? If you're working for that kind of sweatshop I'd demand hourly pay w/OT. I'm salary and my employer is pretty open to hours worked so long as I get my job done and don't go over budget. Of course the interns and CAD techs don't get that freedom, but they have to get approved for OT work as they are hourly.
because it was a special circumstance where an office of ours in another city had messed up and practically ruined the relationship with the owner on a very large project
we had a team of 5 in our office, and 7 in another office working on it, and couldnt move anyone else onto the project due to other projects. it was a time when there was a lot of work, and this was sprung on our office suddenly, so we actually had to pull people off of other projects (me included) to help out on this.
like i said, they asked us each if we wanted to be on this, and made no mistake that there would be extra hours, but that we would also be compensated for it one way or another.
i could have said no if it wasnt a good time for me then, and someone else actually did turn it down.
if they had sprung that on us and said we had to do it no questions asked, then there really would have been a problem. and if it is something that continues to happen, project after project, then yes, it is not right. but this was a 1 time thing, and i have been there over 3 years now.
I rarely work over 40. There have been a couple of big deadlines that have required me to work 50. But typically everyone does their job and goes home.
i always find it funny when people say things like "its not right that they have you work so many hours of overtime" as if we have any recourse. I dont get paid overtime, i get not bonuses or even extra days off for my exorbitant overtime. But what are my options?
Tell my bosses i dont appreciate them taking advantage of me? Perfect idea, considering we're inundated with resumes and being just a couple years out of school, I along with virtually all of us, are imminently replaceable.
Move to an office that pays overtime? Those offices are few and far between.
Truth is capitalism is a bitch... Truth is my bosses make a killing off me and my colleagues. Truth is ITS GOOD BUSINESS to under staff and overwork. Truth is YOUR OFFICE MAKES MORE MONEY THAT WAY. Of course, we dont make more money that way, but some day, maybe you'll be a star, and there will be a fresh litter of 20 somethings to enslave. Final truth is, i get frustrated, but its still a good job, and i sometimes draw some small fragment of respect or acknowledgment of my work, and it all seems worth it... till the next competition entry at least.
salary (no OT) with bonuses/profit sharing though it's abysmal at best but better than nothing... considering what they bill me at, and pay me at... lletdownl is right, they'll happily squeeze the juice outta you and not think twice
41 hours a week at my current job, plus paid OT, which I have only work about 4 hours. The owners like to limit the hours worked. This is a small firm.
At my previous job at a large firm I usually worked 40-45 hours. Up to about 50 hours / week for a week or two around deadlines.
Like another poster mentioned, working 10+ hours a day starts to have a negative effect on how productive I can be. Plus, I have a life outside of work.
Considering the current economic situation and job market, it probably makes sense to work as much as you have to if you want to keep your job.
I'd be interested if there is a regional aspect to those working massive hours, or maybe size of firm.
50 hours. for $28k.
Now that seems way outta line with current pay levels, unless you are in the middle of Kansas or something. I realize it's not the market to ask for a raise, but that's only around $13.50/hour. Are you still a student or something?
lletdownl - stay positive. When I first started out my employer clearly was taking advantage of me, always dangling a carrot (bonus) in front of me asking for another 10 hrs of unpaid OT. When the bonus came it was something like $300, or less than $1/hr for all the OT that year. I kept my head up, got good experience and when time was right jumped into a new job with a 30% pay raise + OT pay.
i was the 50 hours for $28k guy.
i just finished undergrad so i'm probably not very useful to the firm. it's a high-end design firm in a medium-sized city.
what kind of firms that these people that typicallywork 60-80 hour weeks? how do you guys manage that with sleeping/family/friends/housework/hobbies etc? already with a 50 hour week, i am having an extremely hard time finding enough time in the day for things like making dinner, exercising, getting enough sleep, and weekend socializing. is it worth it?
according to my contract: 40 hours a week. But in reality, it's more like 45/50 a week - minus the time spent goofing around with useless crap and juvenile pranks in the office.
In times of competitions/deadlines the figure rises, up to somewhere between 60 and 100 hours - even though that 100 hours was an extreme case, that only happened twice...
45-60+
at first getting time and a half for overtime was great- made a lot of money. but now, i think overtime is just overrated. i'd rather make 5k more in salary and only work 4 or 5 hours more a week then make time and a half and work 65 hours a week regularly.
you know right now i work about 50. i don't get benefits, and i don't get time and a half or anything like that. i don't think this or any of the stories above have anything to do with capitalism or the un-lucrative nature of architecture or anything like that. it's just the culture of our profession. my girlfriend works in sales and barely puts in a 40 hour week. she even gets to work from home a few times a month. she has no stress at work and makes 100k/yr with only a bachelors, full health benefits, and get's a free (leased) prius to drive around in and they cover a lot of the cost of her gas for commuting and what not. and she dropped out of UT Austin for landscape architecture. this is probably the other extreme, but i don't think architects have it bad because 'architecture' itself is so bad to do business in as much as that architects treat their employees poorly because their employers treated them that way. in any case i'd say for me life isn't all that bad because i'm just happy to have a job.
40-45 hrs/wk on a "normal" week, 50-60 when on deadline (every few months).
no OT in my office, but our salaries/benefits/perks are pretty decent,
and if you really work a TON of OT for a project, your proj mgr will usually let you take off an extra day or something like that. but we have no official comp time policy. i wish!
How many hours do you work/week?
Season's Greetings! I am attending a graduate program in the Fall 09, but with the current economic conditions, I've been having second thoughts. I know how rewarding the profession can be, as i had a great time earning my B.S. Arch. The only things that are weighing me down are TIME & MONEY, both of which the profession is known to lack. The current economic condition makes those two factors ever heavier.
How many hours/week do you work in the Spring/Summer? Fall/Winter? Do you think your pay is worth it?
PS:
I would go into another field for a decade or so and jump back when I'm financially able to. My family thinks it's a stupid idea. What do you guys think? :)
I think in this economy the prospects for astronauts are better than for architects.
No matter what job you go into, you will likely be working long hours for less pay than you think you're worth. This is true for me as well as for my friends who are doctors, accountants, real estate agents, hairdressers, schoolteachers, and motivational speakers.
If you want to be an architect, riding out the recession in grad school is not a bad idea *IF* you are not going deep into debt to do so. A little school debt is OK, if you're looking at 6 figures or close to it, I'd say reconsider.
55-65
40, if you count this as work.
About 55
40 hours almost always, anything more and I am paid for overtime. that applies to everyone in my small firm outside of maybe boss man but even he tries to keep it to 40.
there are really so many variable involved in the number of hours one works... asking for averages will be of little help to you. There are high end design offices where you may consistently work 70+ hours a week. There are low end lazy offices happy to get by on corporate bank renovations where you'll be bored out of your mind working just 40 hours.
Or, most likely, you'll fall somewhere in the middle. There will be slow weeks where youre working 8-6 and getting out on time, and there will be huge deadlines when you'll be working 8-12 for a month straight.
in the end though, averaging it all out, be prepared for 10 hours of OT a week on average... it seems to me that might mean a few weeks of 40 hours, and a lot of weeks of 70 or so.
after all things are considered though, definitely try to find an office where you'll be paid for your overtime... Its incredibly frustrating to sit down and calculate that your hourly earnings after school and years of working are very often lower than your hourly earnings at your HS summer jobs
45+/- deadlines/schedules.
Less than 30 hours / week, but I'm self-employed.
45 roughly on average
50-55 for a deadline
once i was asked to work extended overtime and some weekend time, so 65-70 per week for about 3 months, but that was a special case where we inherited the project that was insanely behind schedule and the owner was about to fire us.
it was an option though, and since it was a cooler type project than usual, and the team was good, i agreed to it.
i got some extra vacation that year as compensation.
working consistent overtime is really being taken advantage of if your heart isnt in it, or you have to do it all the time
if they ever make you do it, you are being taken advantage of
of course in these economic times, i would rather be taken advantage of than not have a job at all
50 hours a week. Long distance travel often occurs on weekends. No comp time for travel or late nighters, and close accounting on vacation time accrual. "Workweek" compensation calculations exclude "lunch" hour, which is often not actually taken by staff.
If that happened to me I'd seriously have to question why my firm couldn't have spread the project among more staff so as not to necessitate overworking people so much.
It depends. Things are slowing down so I've been doing 40's lately, but that's a bit scary given a historical average of 50. Unless major deadlines or travel is on the schedule I try to limit myself to no more than 50 hour/weeks. Gotta maintain some sanity. I think the 60+ hour weeks are mostly unnecessary. Many architects I've met are major time wasters. Some employers demand it, IMO because they are cheap and want more production without more pay, but is anyone that efficient after 10+ hours working each day? If you're working for that kind of sweatshop I'd demand hourly pay w/OT. I'm salary and my employer is pretty open to hours worked so long as I get my job done and don't go over budget. Of course the interns and CAD techs don't get that freedom, but they have to get approved for OT work as they are hourly.
because it was a special circumstance where an office of ours in another city had messed up and practically ruined the relationship with the owner on a very large project
we had a team of 5 in our office, and 7 in another office working on it, and couldnt move anyone else onto the project due to other projects. it was a time when there was a lot of work, and this was sprung on our office suddenly, so we actually had to pull people off of other projects (me included) to help out on this.
like i said, they asked us each if we wanted to be on this, and made no mistake that there would be extra hours, but that we would also be compensated for it one way or another.
i could have said no if it wasnt a good time for me then, and someone else actually did turn it down.
if they had sprung that on us and said we had to do it no questions asked, then there really would have been a problem. and if it is something that continues to happen, project after project, then yes, it is not right. but this was a 1 time thing, and i have been there over 3 years now.
I rarely work over 40. There have been a couple of big deadlines that have required me to work 50. But typically everyone does their job and goes home.
50 hours. for $28k.
i always find it funny when people say things like "its not right that they have you work so many hours of overtime" as if we have any recourse. I dont get paid overtime, i get not bonuses or even extra days off for my exorbitant overtime. But what are my options?
Tell my bosses i dont appreciate them taking advantage of me? Perfect idea, considering we're inundated with resumes and being just a couple years out of school, I along with virtually all of us, are imminently replaceable.
Move to an office that pays overtime? Those offices are few and far between.
Truth is capitalism is a bitch... Truth is my bosses make a killing off me and my colleagues. Truth is ITS GOOD BUSINESS to under staff and overwork. Truth is YOUR OFFICE MAKES MORE MONEY THAT WAY. Of course, we dont make more money that way, but some day, maybe you'll be a star, and there will be a fresh litter of 20 somethings to enslave. Final truth is, i get frustrated, but its still a good job, and i sometimes draw some small fragment of respect or acknowledgment of my work, and it all seems worth it... till the next competition entry at least.
0... but when i was employed, 45 on avg. 55-60 during the month b4 a deadline
50's on avg...
up to 70+ pre deadline
salary (no OT) with bonuses/profit sharing though it's abysmal at best but better than nothing... considering what they bill me at, and pay me at... lletdownl is right, they'll happily squeeze the juice outta you and not think twice
Typically 40 unless there's a deadline or I'm out of town doing a site survey.
55 +/- here or there. 1200 a month.
35 per week for an exhibit house doing engineering/dd/cd's
plus my other stuff that takes up about 5-8 hours additional a day plus weekends
trying to release my 'official clothing line in spring 2009'
0
41 hours a week at my current job, plus paid OT, which I have only work about 4 hours. The owners like to limit the hours worked. This is a small firm.
At my previous job at a large firm I usually worked 40-45 hours. Up to about 50 hours / week for a week or two around deadlines.
Like another poster mentioned, working 10+ hours a day starts to have a negative effect on how productive I can be. Plus, I have a life outside of work.
Considering the current economic situation and job market, it probably makes sense to work as much as you have to if you want to keep your job.
heh heh
I've moved from about 80 hours a week to 8... life is good
through partial employment comes sanity
60-80
typically 40...
but with the current situation...I am working 50-55/wk
I'd be interested if there is a regional aspect to those working massive hours, or maybe size of firm.
50 hours. for $28k.
Now that seems way outta line with current pay levels, unless you are in the middle of Kansas or something. I realize it's not the market to ask for a raise, but that's only around $13.50/hour. Are you still a student or something?
lletdownl - stay positive. When I first started out my employer clearly was taking advantage of me, always dangling a carrot (bonus) in front of me asking for another 10 hrs of unpaid OT. When the bonus came it was something like $300, or less than $1/hr for all the OT that year. I kept my head up, got good experience and when time was right jumped into a new job with a 30% pay raise + OT pay.
i was the 50 hours for $28k guy.
i just finished undergrad so i'm probably not very useful to the firm. it's a high-end design firm in a medium-sized city.
what kind of firms that these people that typicallywork 60-80 hour weeks? how do you guys manage that with sleeping/family/friends/housework/hobbies etc? already with a 50 hour week, i am having an extremely hard time finding enough time in the day for things like making dinner, exercising, getting enough sleep, and weekend socializing. is it worth it?
My business, so that's why I work so much. Balance? lol
Is it worth it? Ask me in 10 years, but so far, yes.
35 hours a week at 58k...... not bad for myself.....practically doing the same type of dd/cd stuff i would do if i was in a firm...
fresh out of college i was at 10 an hour on contract....don't do that..taxes will creep up on you
according to my contract: 40 hours a week. But in reality, it's more like 45/50 a week - minus the time spent goofing around with useless crap and juvenile pranks in the office.
In times of competitions/deadlines the figure rises, up to somewhere between 60 and 100 hours - even though that 100 hours was an extreme case, that only happened twice...
32 hours a week. But then again, I'm in Europe not working for a starchitect.
45-60+
at first getting time and a half for overtime was great- made a lot of money. but now, i think overtime is just overrated. i'd rather make 5k more in salary and only work 4 or 5 hours more a week then make time and a half and work 65 hours a week regularly.
God, 80 hours... how's that possible?
I rarely work over 40.
45 on a normal week. 60 when there's a deadline [once every few months].
Paid OT makes it all worth it, but I don't think I could consistently work 60+ without going crazy. I don't know how you all do it.
we are crazy, no doubt
if i was paid OT, i would work much more than what i currently do...
haha - and probably like it much more to boot ;)
you know right now i work about 50. i don't get benefits, and i don't get time and a half or anything like that. i don't think this or any of the stories above have anything to do with capitalism or the un-lucrative nature of architecture or anything like that. it's just the culture of our profession. my girlfriend works in sales and barely puts in a 40 hour week. she even gets to work from home a few times a month. she has no stress at work and makes 100k/yr with only a bachelors, full health benefits, and get's a free (leased) prius to drive around in and they cover a lot of the cost of her gas for commuting and what not. and she dropped out of UT Austin for landscape architecture. this is probably the other extreme, but i don't think architects have it bad because 'architecture' itself is so bad to do business in as much as that architects treat their employees poorly because their employers treated them that way. in any case i'd say for me life isn't all that bad because i'm just happy to have a job.
40-45 hrs/wk on a "normal" week, 50-60 when on deadline (every few months).
no OT in my office, but our salaries/benefits/perks are pretty decent,
and if you really work a TON of OT for a project, your proj mgr will usually let you take off an extra day or something like that. but we have no official comp time policy. i wish!
oh and as a footnote to my post....our end of year bonuses are supposed to reflect our extra work we've put in over the year...
bossman, glad to hear you're employed!
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