Middle folk will go, top folk will stay and run things, newbies will work hard for much less.
This will thin those that haven't quite made it to the top, but have experience.
Then many of these folk will look elsewhere for employment, areas that provide more pay, less risk/exposure, etc.
So, overall, I'd say it significantly hurts the profession and weeds out many of the most ambitious and talented, leaving those at the top and some interns (they'll get experience and opportunities, but probably not pay).
synergy - interesting thoughts about BIM. While I think Revit is a great program for coordination, I too have heard requests from contractors for BIM models, even autocad files. That makes me a bit uneasy and has me re-reading the contract closely.
I do think that our profession is slowly being swallowed up by the construction/contracting side. Seems like more and more I see work being done by design/build companies, which is fine, but architecture clearly does not run the show. Also noticed how so much work is now under a negotiated bid with GC's already on board. Not sure it's a good thing to be getting too friendly with the construction side of the business.
There clearly are big legislative problems architects need to address. That said, it doesn't excuse the fact that we have colleges churning out way too many grads each year than the marketplace will afford. Granted, we have diverse degrees and traditional practice isn't necessary, but even with that each year even in good times many people have trouble finding work. That seems like major over supply to me.
I have a good friend who is a pharmisist. He graduated and literally could walk into any city in the country and have a job. Right out of college he started at over $90k. Why? There are 28 total colleges in the country that have a Pharm D. program, not nearly enough to replace the amount that retire each year. Supply vs. demand. He went to college for 6 years to accomplish this...many architects go longer. But he graduated with job security and a healthy wage, what did we get? I can tell you he isn't worried about his job right now.
This is a fascinating discussion as a recent grad/future educator.
So far:
1)There is a major gap between the academic learning environment and the professional learning environment, namely an active and respected mentor/apprentice system.
2)The 'Architect' as an occupation is truly at a state of infinite possibilities - infinite defined as (technically) an undefined state. Given this, what is the responsibility of the academic environment towards its students?
3)Design curriculum is not preparing young designers with a foundation in professional performance - while schools tend to load heavily on either technical knowledge or conceptual process, they do not provide experience on how to operate in a truly collaborative way. (ie, making drawings that others can build from, true systematic impact, dimensional/unit consideration, etc)
Please ( I beg ye and ploy with bacon) - continue!
in most cases when the g.c. calls you and says 'if you refer to drawing blah on page blah point blah, you have drawn it with a blahbiddy blah and we think it would be better to build it blabbiddy blah bliddity. usually the architect answeres. that i as long as the architect's solemn if somewhat divervative and pedestrian design intent is not altered then build it any bliddidby way that works. (construction admin 101)
FrankLloydMike's long post above was so good I have to reproduce some of it here again:
With programs like IDP, which I think in theory is great, we're asking young architects (well intern architects) to ensentially perform the architectural equivalent of a medical residency without any of the institutional framework or support. Instead of performing a real apprenticeship, which requires not only an apprentice but a mentor, young architects are being asked to jump through bureaucratic hoops, obtain a well-rounded experience, learn a number of skills and still perform well for their employers. Employers, on the other hand, while being able to pay a lower salary for less experienced workers who have not yet completed this acronym or that, are not being asked to perform the role of mentor.
If my workload slows down in the next year I may take this on as a challenge. Firms that don't act as mentors should be ridiculed. I say this of course as someone with no employees, but if I had some I'd be a damn good employer/mentor to them.
My small office is guilt of the mentor/apprentice gap - its become a source of some consternation betwixt myself and the bosses because they refuse to train me but refuse to see when I fuck up because I didn't know what I was doing its because I didn't know what I was doing. There is only so much you can anticipate/foresee, especially as green as I am, without having basically take every decision back to the person with 15 years experience who essentially wants to, at 40, sit in the Big Boy chair and not touch autocad (bit of diva).
I dont believe it's my responsibility to teach anyone anything. i became an architect on my own, and when I practice profesionally I plan on maybe one intern at a time max. whil working with other like minded profesiionals. Its sick that clients think they hiring architects and instead are getting a a professional and a team of misfits. Hell I used to be embaressed going to meetings with large Hospital clients who looked disgusted that a 24 yr old was sitting at the table. I was disgusted too. The only fool who wasnt was the architect who was too defected personality wise to pick up on such human emotional cues as disgust and disappointment.
How do you justify billing out a "student", casue thats what an intern essentially is. at $125/ hour?
ep, you don't justify it! You can't! I billed out at $65 as an intern, even now my partner and I bill our drafting time at half our hourly design rates, even though WE are the drafters!
Architects who are gouging their clients deserve to lose those clients.
mentoring is part of being a professional - as opposed to being just a guy who produces architectural work. it's part of the social and ethical basis of our profession. shirking this responsibility only adds to the mercenary aspect much of our 'business' has taken on in recent decades.
if a client is disgusted that a 24yr old is sitting at the table, that client doesn't understand how learning happens. learning on-the-job is critical and can't be replaced in any academic environment.
but, yeah, the billing of that intern may be a different matter...
EP - then you have no business being a mentor. Run your office, do your work, and refrain from taking part in the performance of your office as a whole. 'Like minded' is a super goal for you to have - I mean, that way you can make sure you only hire people who know everything already, don't have to ask you any questions and can basically stay the hell out of your completely informed and totally infallible way.
Your 'disgust' is totally disgusting to me. That 24 year old is there to learn because you shan't, my dear, be around for eternity, flawlessly Architecting all over the place. Nor should you be. Nor should anyone be.
And WHO is billing out a recent undergrad, new hire trainee at $125 and hour? PLEASE give me contact info!
if the client is being billed hourly, it may be a problem to have that intern at the table if they are not contributing something, taking notes, etc. if it's a lump sum, the architect eats the cost as part of the mentoring process. either way, it sounds like that client is a royal db, and who bills an intern at $125 anyway?
isambard brunel was overseeing the digging of the london underground beneath the thames at age 22. granted we was a freaking genius but still. the requirements of an archi educationkeep getting deeper although i have no clue as to why. you certainly don't need a freaking masters to do this. you just need the right temperment. or distemperment in my case.
I think there are different approaches to the billing, some offices bill everyone the same, or very close to the same, so perhaps the difference is covered in the lack of a signifigant increase in billing price for a senior architect?
As for interns, it makes perfect sense to have a heirarchy, I mean what would be the use of having a team of all super experienced, super trained architects? It would be expensive and major overkill for the tasks that require less experince. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about having a senior manager watching over less experienced architects...people are very rarely born knowing typical flashing details for placing a new chimney onto an existing gabled roof...you might need experience for things like that...
As for the digust, that sounds like you projecting your own issues onto others around you. Personally, I really enjoy dealing with young architects as well as senior ones, the same goes for contractors and my co worker engineers.
But wouldn't the intern bill that time out as training to the office?
different offices have different policies on this. if it's pure observation, then by the book, you are correct. does this actually happen in practice? ... meh ;)
i have to say i owe a lot to my mentor. he is one of the reasons i still enjoy architecture, and some day i hope to be as good a mentor.
ep, i don't know what world you live in, but young architects have always been welcome at every client meeting i have been to. even if they're only there to take minutes. competence doesn't begin at 30. heck, i have seen interns with more drive and competence than people 10 years in the biz. experience does not always equate to competence.
also, in my experience, i have never seen an intern billed at more than $75/hr, and this is over several offices, so whoever is billing $125 is just bad business.
I dont believe it's my responsibility to teach anyone anything. i became an architect on my own ... Hell I used to be embaressed going to meetings with large Hospital clients who looked disgusted that a 24 yr old was sitting at the table
Clearly you did it on your own, since sitting in on meetings obviously never helped you at all in anything. And no one ever taught you anything. Like how to spell "embarassed". Jesus, this is the same stupid argument used when people don't want to pay taxes--why should I have to help someone out?! Because someone once helped you, that's how being a member of society, whether as a taxpayer or an architect, works. Someone did teach you, there's no other way around it, and if you hire someone is your ethical and social obligation to teach them in some way.
if this society was required, educated and informed enough to hire 'architects' for building design, current numbers of architects would not be nearly enough. i don't think people should be able to design a two story house without proper education and/or license. in general, we would be residing in better buildings and cities. it is also about, new ways of utilizing resources, answering the cultural developments and changes, combining aesthetics and necessities and so on. that is why there is architecture. it is not about roof detail etc, alone...
4-5 years ago los angeles dept. of building and safety start to ask architect's stamp for two story remodels and for new houses and the rule was shot down in no more than one week by construction industry lobbyists and there has never been similar attempt since.
instead of thinning the architects, the efforts should be geared toward cultivating more of the public to hire architects.
on the other discussion;
teaching and learning are natural instincts we are equipped by birth. otherwise there might be some hormonal deficiency that needs to be dealt, perhaps by medication.
it's mutual, ep. to learn, one must be taught. there's an obligation in this field, as in any i'd say, to be continual learning and sharing your expertise with others. your self-serving disdain for teaching doesn't help yourself or the profession as a whole. i don't get how you can complain that young architects don't get enough learning experience in the office, yet you are completely unwilling to fulfill your role toward that end. don't imagine, too, that because you're no longer an intern you're done learning.
and
instead of thinning the architects, the efforts should be geared toward cultivating more of the public to hire architects.
right on. to this end, i think some of the most promising trends in the field has been the expansion of the role of architect into that of developer or impetus for projects, or the architect almost being a think-tank, or being proactive rather than just entering competitions or soliciting jobs.
I just wanted to say I agree with just about everything said on this page. Which is sad, really, because it only confirms what I already know... that architecture eats itself. And it starts from the top down, with a real lack of leadership and representation to guide the industry.
Ok, I apologize EP - I should've elaborated. Instead I had candy from the holiday gift basket.
'It is their ethical responsibility to learn' - you are SO stating the obvious. For most people in this profession, starting out, they are genuinely ready to learn. It is the ethical responsibility of the more experience professional to see that the trainee is getting just that - to not do so is to provide fertile ground for mistakes in production which ripple through the entire schedule, or extremely bored employees who really don't give a shit what happens around them because they can do nothing and still get a pay check, etc.
To go all hands-off is to operate under the incredible misapprehension that in an office your actions are without consequence to others. If you are going to Ayn Rand your way through the world, please do on your own time and under your own roof. It somewhat pathological to work for other people and be reckless with their liabilities.
I've always been grateful when someone takes the time to teach me something.
However, don't get your collectively chastizing undies in a righteously clenched bunch over EvilP's post just yet. Yes, do what you can to help a guy out, wouldn't you want the same in return? On the flip side, one of the best lessons it took me a good long time to learn, is this: Don't sit around waiting for anyone else to help you get where you want to go. Otherwise you'll be forever frustrated. Your individual goals are primary to you, and to you alone.
KURT, mon petite cinnabon, personal/individual goals are not the same thing as contracted, technical, standardized, industry oriented business goals. Our time in the professional is spent bridging that gap - and it is there.
If you decided, whilst in office, your personal goal was to learn about all the Kohler blocks available your boss would get fairly pissed you weren't contributing to the monthly billing - for example - and at that point you may riding on your academic foundations but not your professional ones. This is why offices need training protocol - bring the new-hires to a level of minimal competency so they can then learn AND operate usefully in the office.
At some point, starting out , you have to ask someone what to do and how to do it, and apparently only if you are lucky, why. Chaos is the result of blind enthusiasm and entropy from lack of enthusiasm at all.
And don't speak about my Chastizing Undies with such utter disregard - they find themselves disregarded on an almost daily basis!
Also, as to the original question: I don't think it's time to lessen the numbers of architects, but time to increase our influence, as Orhan says. Which means we need to stop waiting for work to come to us and start looking at other areas where we can apply our expertise. Like design for outer space, perhaps, or certainly all the "greening" of the built environment that is on its way whether we step up or not.
"I don't think it's time to lessen the numbers of architects, but time to increase our influence..."
Well, maybe, LB, but how many architects out there influence the built environment in a way worth increasing? Take the Archinect member list, for example. How many of these whiners would you want building a new house next to yours? :-)
To give up, baby
To leave a Job
When you know the moneys from day to day
All the majesty of a city landscape
All the soaring days of our lives
All the concrete dreams in my mind's eye
All the joy I see thru these architect's eyes
Is it time to thin the forest of architects?
Middle folk will go, top folk will stay and run things, newbies will work hard for much less.
This will thin those that haven't quite made it to the top, but have experience.
Then many of these folk will look elsewhere for employment, areas that provide more pay, less risk/exposure, etc.
So, overall, I'd say it significantly hurts the profession and weeds out many of the most ambitious and talented, leaving those at the top and some interns (they'll get experience and opportunities, but probably not pay).
dont more people go back to school during a recession like this?
i would think more or at least the same number of people will be going to school now
Dot - do you read the DL?
synergy - interesting thoughts about BIM. While I think Revit is a great program for coordination, I too have heard requests from contractors for BIM models, even autocad files. That makes me a bit uneasy and has me re-reading the contract closely.
I do think that our profession is slowly being swallowed up by the construction/contracting side. Seems like more and more I see work being done by design/build companies, which is fine, but architecture clearly does not run the show. Also noticed how so much work is now under a negotiated bid with GC's already on board. Not sure it's a good thing to be getting too friendly with the construction side of the business.
There clearly are big legislative problems architects need to address. That said, it doesn't excuse the fact that we have colleges churning out way too many grads each year than the marketplace will afford. Granted, we have diverse degrees and traditional practice isn't necessary, but even with that each year even in good times many people have trouble finding work. That seems like major over supply to me.
I have a good friend who is a pharmisist. He graduated and literally could walk into any city in the country and have a job. Right out of college he started at over $90k. Why? There are 28 total colleges in the country that have a Pharm D. program, not nearly enough to replace the amount that retire each year. Supply vs. demand. He went to college for 6 years to accomplish this...many architects go longer. But he graduated with job security and a healthy wage, what did we get? I can tell you he isn't worried about his job right now.
This is a fascinating discussion as a recent grad/future educator.
So far:
1)There is a major gap between the academic learning environment and the professional learning environment, namely an active and respected mentor/apprentice system.
2)The 'Architect' as an occupation is truly at a state of infinite possibilities - infinite defined as (technically) an undefined state. Given this, what is the responsibility of the academic environment towards its students?
3)Design curriculum is not preparing young designers with a foundation in professional performance - while schools tend to load heavily on either technical knowledge or conceptual process, they do not provide experience on how to operate in a truly collaborative way. (ie, making drawings that others can build from, true systematic impact, dimensional/unit consideration, etc)
Please ( I beg ye and ploy with bacon) - continue!
in most cases when the g.c. calls you and says 'if you refer to drawing blah on page blah point blah, you have drawn it with a blahbiddy blah and we think it would be better to build it blabbiddy blah bliddity. usually the architect answeres. that i as long as the architect's solemn if somewhat divervative and pedestrian design intent is not altered then build it any bliddidby way that works. (construction admin 101)
FrankLloydMike's long post above was so good I have to reproduce some of it here again:
With programs like IDP, which I think in theory is great, we're asking young architects (well intern architects) to ensentially perform the architectural equivalent of a medical residency without any of the institutional framework or support. Instead of performing a real apprenticeship, which requires not only an apprentice but a mentor, young architects are being asked to jump through bureaucratic hoops, obtain a well-rounded experience, learn a number of skills and still perform well for their employers. Employers, on the other hand, while being able to pay a lower salary for less experienced workers who have not yet completed this acronym or that, are not being asked to perform the role of mentor.
If my workload slows down in the next year I may take this on as a challenge. Firms that don't act as mentors should be ridiculed. I say this of course as someone with no employees, but if I had some I'd be a damn good employer/mentor to them.
see germany and italy's ratio's, way higher i think!
My small office is guilt of the mentor/apprentice gap - its become a source of some consternation betwixt myself and the bosses because they refuse to train me but refuse to see when I fuck up because I didn't know what I was doing its because I didn't know what I was doing. There is only so much you can anticipate/foresee, especially as green as I am, without having basically take every decision back to the person with 15 years experience who essentially wants to, at 40, sit in the Big Boy chair and not touch autocad (bit of diva).
I mean..FERREALS!
I dont believe it's my responsibility to teach anyone anything. i became an architect on my own, and when I practice profesionally I plan on maybe one intern at a time max. whil working with other like minded profesiionals. Its sick that clients think they hiring architects and instead are getting a a professional and a team of misfits. Hell I used to be embaressed going to meetings with large Hospital clients who looked disgusted that a 24 yr old was sitting at the table. I was disgusted too. The only fool who wasnt was the architect who was too defected personality wise to pick up on such human emotional cues as disgust and disappointment.
How do you justify billing out a "student", casue thats what an intern essentially is. at $125/ hour?
ep, you don't justify it! You can't! I billed out at $65 as an intern, even now my partner and I bill our drafting time at half our hourly design rates, even though WE are the drafters!
Architects who are gouging their clients deserve to lose those clients.
mentoring is part of being a professional - as opposed to being just a guy who produces architectural work. it's part of the social and ethical basis of our profession. shirking this responsibility only adds to the mercenary aspect much of our 'business' has taken on in recent decades.
if a client is disgusted that a 24yr old is sitting at the table, that client doesn't understand how learning happens. learning on-the-job is critical and can't be replaced in any academic environment.
but, yeah, the billing of that intern may be a different matter...
EP - then you have no business being a mentor. Run your office, do your work, and refrain from taking part in the performance of your office as a whole. 'Like minded' is a super goal for you to have - I mean, that way you can make sure you only hire people who know everything already, don't have to ask you any questions and can basically stay the hell out of your completely informed and totally infallible way.
Your 'disgust' is totally disgusting to me. That 24 year old is there to learn because you shan't, my dear, be around for eternity, flawlessly Architecting all over the place. Nor should you be. Nor should anyone be.
And WHO is billing out a recent undergrad, new hire trainee at $125 and hour? PLEASE give me contact info!
I bill out at $80 as a drafter in NYC.
if the client is being billed hourly, it may be a problem to have that intern at the table if they are not contributing something, taking notes, etc. if it's a lump sum, the architect eats the cost as part of the mentoring process. either way, it sounds like that client is a royal db, and who bills an intern at $125 anyway?
[how did we get onto this?]
isambard brunel was overseeing the digging of the london underground beneath the thames at age 22. granted we was a freaking genius but still. the requirements of an archi educationkeep getting deeper although i have no clue as to why. you certainly don't need a freaking masters to do this. you just need the right temperment. or distemperment in my case.
jaf - didn't you know? in this post-world world, everything is relevant.
But wouldn't the intern bill that time out as training to the office?
Pretty sure this bunch will thin itself out... :o)
I think there are different approaches to the billing, some offices bill everyone the same, or very close to the same, so perhaps the difference is covered in the lack of a signifigant increase in billing price for a senior architect?
As for interns, it makes perfect sense to have a heirarchy, I mean what would be the use of having a team of all super experienced, super trained architects? It would be expensive and major overkill for the tasks that require less experince. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about having a senior manager watching over less experienced architects...people are very rarely born knowing typical flashing details for placing a new chimney onto an existing gabled roof...you might need experience for things like that...
As for the digust, that sounds like you projecting your own issues onto others around you. Personally, I really enjoy dealing with young architects as well as senior ones, the same goes for contractors and my co worker engineers.
"...I mean what would be the use of having a team of all super experienced, super trained architects?'
Not a problem, Syn -- such a team has never sucessfully been assembled.
Rock on Apu - I have an B.des, about 2 years experience and I am 90/hr.
different offices have different policies on this. if it's pure observation, then by the book, you are correct. does this actually happen in practice? ... meh ;)
True - most of our clients are in real estate so they tend to read invoices like scripture.
i have to say i owe a lot to my mentor. he is one of the reasons i still enjoy architecture, and some day i hope to be as good a mentor.
ep, i don't know what world you live in, but young architects have always been welcome at every client meeting i have been to. even if they're only there to take minutes. competence doesn't begin at 30. heck, i have seen interns with more drive and competence than people 10 years in the biz. experience does not always equate to competence.
also, in my experience, i have never seen an intern billed at more than $75/hr, and this is over several offices, so whoever is billing $125 is just bad business.
LOL, Kurt!
Clearly you did it on your own, since sitting in on meetings obviously never helped you at all in anything. And no one ever taught you anything. Like how to spell "embarassed". Jesus, this is the same stupid argument used when people don't want to pay taxes--why should I have to help someone out?! Because someone once helped you, that's how being a member of society, whether as a taxpayer or an architect, works. Someone did teach you, there's no other way around it, and if you hire someone is your ethical and social obligation to teach them in some way.
No Mike - Its their ethical obligation to learn.
if this society was required, educated and informed enough to hire 'architects' for building design, current numbers of architects would not be nearly enough. i don't think people should be able to design a two story house without proper education and/or license. in general, we would be residing in better buildings and cities. it is also about, new ways of utilizing resources, answering the cultural developments and changes, combining aesthetics and necessities and so on. that is why there is architecture. it is not about roof detail etc, alone...
4-5 years ago los angeles dept. of building and safety start to ask architect's stamp for two story remodels and for new houses and the rule was shot down in no more than one week by construction industry lobbyists and there has never been similar attempt since.
instead of thinning the architects, the efforts should be geared toward cultivating more of the public to hire architects.
on the other discussion;
teaching and learning are natural instincts we are equipped by birth. otherwise there might be some hormonal deficiency that needs to be dealt, perhaps by medication.
So whaddya sayin', Orhan -- ya lookin' to get EvilP on the dope?
it's mutual, ep. to learn, one must be taught. there's an obligation in this field, as in any i'd say, to be continual learning and sharing your expertise with others. your self-serving disdain for teaching doesn't help yourself or the profession as a whole. i don't get how you can complain that young architects don't get enough learning experience in the office, yet you are completely unwilling to fulfill your role toward that end. don't imagine, too, that because you're no longer an intern you're done learning.
and
instead of thinning the architects, the efforts should be geared toward cultivating more of the public to hire architects.
right on. to this end, i think some of the most promising trends in the field has been the expansion of the role of architect into that of developer or impetus for projects, or the architect almost being a think-tank, or being proactive rather than just entering competitions or soliciting jobs.
EP - why so serious : (? Where is positive platy? He I would like to meet.
As for your statement - ignoring it and going for your position, which is stewpid.
I just wanted to say I agree with just about everything said on this page. Which is sad, really, because it only confirms what I already know... that architecture eats itself. And it starts from the top down, with a real lack of leadership and representation to guide the industry.
Ok, I apologize EP - I should've elaborated. Instead I had candy from the holiday gift basket.
'It is their ethical responsibility to learn' - you are SO stating the obvious. For most people in this profession, starting out, they are genuinely ready to learn. It is the ethical responsibility of the more experience professional to see that the trainee is getting just that - to not do so is to provide fertile ground for mistakes in production which ripple through the entire schedule, or extremely bored employees who really don't give a shit what happens around them because they can do nothing and still get a pay check, etc.
To go all hands-off is to operate under the incredible misapprehension that in an office your actions are without consequence to others. If you are going to Ayn Rand your way through the world, please do on your own time and under your own roof. It somewhat pathological to work for other people and be reckless with their liabilities.
I've always been grateful when someone takes the time to teach me something.
However, don't get your collectively chastizing undies in a righteously clenched bunch over EvilP's post just yet. Yes, do what you can to help a guy out, wouldn't you want the same in return? On the flip side, one of the best lessons it took me a good long time to learn, is this: Don't sit around waiting for anyone else to help you get where you want to go. Otherwise you'll be forever frustrated. Your individual goals are primary to you, and to you alone.
KURT, mon petite cinnabon, personal/individual goals are not the same thing as contracted, technical, standardized, industry oriented business goals. Our time in the professional is spent bridging that gap - and it is there.
If you decided, whilst in office, your personal goal was to learn about all the Kohler blocks available your boss would get fairly pissed you weren't contributing to the monthly billing - for example - and at that point you may riding on your academic foundations but not your professional ones. This is why offices need training protocol - bring the new-hires to a level of minimal competency so they can then learn AND operate usefully in the office.
At some point, starting out , you have to ask someone what to do and how to do it, and apparently only if you are lucky, why. Chaos is the result of blind enthusiasm and entropy from lack of enthusiasm at all.
And don't speak about my Chastizing Undies with such utter disregard - they find themselves disregarded on an almost daily basis!
Clarification: my use of the term 'professional' in the second sentence is to be semantically analogous to 'chokey' from Roald Dahl's 'Matlida'.
xoxo
...yeeeaaaahhhhh, perido. Enjoy.
Also, as to the original question: I don't think it's time to lessen the numbers of architects, but time to increase our influence, as Orhan says. Which means we need to stop waiting for work to come to us and start looking at other areas where we can apply our expertise. Like design for outer space, perhaps, or certainly all the "greening" of the built environment that is on its way whether we step up or not.
"I don't think it's time to lessen the numbers of architects, but time to increase our influence..."
Well, maybe, LB, but how many architects out there influence the built environment in a way worth increasing? Take the Archinect member list, for example. How many of these whiners would you want building a new house next to yours? :-)
Kurt, you obviously misspelled "winners" in that last post. :)
you got it, Syn....winners....WINNERS!
Do you want some cheese with your WIN ??!!
LB - I don't think we as architects need to go so far as outer space, but somewhere equally as sparse - the suburbs.
I second that notion crow - the death of the Icon should be imminent, the fabric requires Attencion! THE FABRIC!!!
8 - 12 inches of snow here. Lovely.
peridot, are you in boston?
Nay sir - though we are contextual kin if you are as such. I am out to sea, as it were, with the Grey Lady.
To give up, baby
To leave a Job
When you know the moneys from day to day
All the majesty of a city landscape
All the soaring days of our lives
All the concrete dreams in my mind's eye
All the joy I see thru these architect's eyes
ah, man that's awesome
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