I've got a 4yr old Thinkpad that's not keeping up with all the new programs I have, surprise surprise. What kind of specs will get me through the next few years with a desktop? I'm running the usual - Rhino, 3ds Max, ACAD, Photoshop and Illustrator......
Does everyone get Dell these days? I don't have the techie skills to assemble a pc myself, so that's out of the question....looking to keep it under $2000.....
go to gotapex.com and see if you can find cool dicount code, or fatwallet>forum>hot deal...
under $2000? wow... i'm sure you can get almost top of the line model...
oh.. i did not read your post carefully...sorry
I would recommend buying from Dell. I bought my labtop and desktop from dell and i'm pretty happy with them. I've been building my own computer since 2000, but sometimes buying from dell comes out much cheaper.
I bought my desktop in 2006 and it's still serving me fine on programs that you listed. I spent $750 on it and I feel like i can at least use it for another 2-3 yrs. As for comparison, my desktop specs were/are:
2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo CPU | 1 GB of Ram (i bought more later at cheaper rate) | 80 GB HDD (I also bought later when hdd got cheaper). Basically, I spent the majority of budget on CPU at that time. With additional purchase, I spent around 1000 bucks.
In my opninon, i would invest the most of my budget on CPU just for future. Nonetheless, i would not pay 200 bucks difference for clock speed margin from .1 to .3. why would pay so much for 2.66 ghz when 2.4 is kicking butt?
Quadcore CPU would be awesome for rendering in 3ds max.. my friend's core 2 quad 2.4ghz renders almost twice as faster than my core 2 duo 2.4ghz..
As for ram, as much as you can, but 4 gigs would be okay for now, you can always buy another one later and install them. If you don't know how to install ram, then just get as much as you can.. say, 6 -8.
you don't want to spend too much money on graphic card though. You'd be fine with Dell's default graphic card, unless you're a gamer.
not sure if the link will work, but for under $1700, you can build a machine that WILL truly last a year or two and be twice the machine that dell would offer...
I have five dell desktops, and two dell laptops at home.
we have around 40 dell precision workstations at my office.
i'm very happy with dell. i always buy the highest i can afford, and i HIGHLY recommend the outlet. two of my desktops are XPS, two are inspiron, and one is a precision, and both laptops are 17" insprion fully loaded.
i think trying to build your own pc is like trying to install roofing for the first time. at the end it costs more and it leaks.
i appreciate the cowgill's links (i truly checked it out,) but after reading the commentary of what problems people ran into, are you still interested? i wouldn't be. if you want to side tract yourself and spend all your time building a desktop and then deal with the internet boards so some stranger can solve your bios configuration etc.., and completely fall behind of your real project in the studio, go ahead...
otherwise turn around the corner and get yourself a professionally done computer, just as powerful, less expensive and someone guaranteeing you it works.
unless you are an egghead, which i suspect you are not because of your initial post.
with a $2000 computer these days, i think you can direct a space shuttle mission!
btw, how good is windows xp 64 bit system? compared to vista?
i'm thinking of moving from xp 32, but i'm very reluctant to move to vista since i don't have many vista compatible programs.
haha ...it only leaks if you're using water cooling
i'm not at all prepared to defend the goons that post reviewing components on Newegg nor waste time for arguments sake however, it really is not that hard, though it may be intimidating ;)
but to each their own, i feel it was well worth the initial research and investment in sweat equity to understand the ins-and-outs of the machines that we work with every day, for the rest of our careers and lives.
if it's the peace of mind of a warranty that is the determining factor, then be sure to get the "next day, 24x7, in home, +parts and labor... etc" that's offered for a kind $400.
fwiw: i bought a boxx for my workstation for the reasons Orhan has mentioned. I hand-built and overclocked my rendernodes myself but will not buy another pre-built machine (minus laptops) based on the knowledge gained by spec'ing and building my own.
most, if not all, major 3d viz houses and arch firms have not gone to Vista. XP 64 gets you all the meat you need without the added fat :) just make sure you're applications are 64 bit ready so as to make use of that generous RAM allocaton.
I have two computers, one a desktop and one a laptop, both Dells. I bought the desktop about 4 years ago and, at the time, it was a top of the line computer, and the laptop was just purchased this month, and it too was pretty close to top of the line. Both ran somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,800. The desktop, if I recall, had a 3.6G processor (not dual core) and 1 or 2G of RAM, as well as top of the line graphics and sound cards, DVD-R/W and 80G of memory. I still use this to run AutoCAD, as well as all of my standard Office programs (I did update the OS to Vista and Office to 2007). The laptop is a Dell XPS 1530 (15.4") with a 2.6G processor and 4G of ram. It has the built in camera, NVIDEA graphics card, 500G of memory, DVD R/W, Sound Blaster, Built in wireless, built in bluetooth, etc. and I run everything on this (Office, AutoCAD, SketchUp, CS4, Max).
Also, if you're looking for cheal, LEGAL software for students, check out academicsuperstore.com.
Get a computer with a quad-core CPU, either the Intel Core 2 Quad or the i7 if you want to be on the absolute cutting edge. Don't get AMD right now because they're slower. Get at least 4GB of RAM, or more if you can. Anything more than 4GB will need a 64 bit operating system. Also make sure that you leave some money left over for a good monitor ... that's a part of the computer that will have a more direct impact on your work than a lot of the other specs.
The video card can also have some impact on your graphics performance, depending on the program. In some cases a gaming card like the 9800GT will work as well as a professional video card (like a Quadro or a FireGL), but it some cases the professional card will be much faster ... I don't really remember what programs had the most significant differences off the top of my head, so you'll have to research and see.
XPS ONE 24
XPS One™ (PRODUCT) RED™ with 24-in widescreen display and Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q8200 processor, Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate (PRODUCT) RED Service Pack 1
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800Mhz - 2 DIMMs
XPS One® Wireless Keyboard including trackpad and media controls
512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 9600M GT
750GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
Slot Load Blu-ray and 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capability
I just upgraded my 8-core Mac Pro (late 2007) with 5 GB of RAM to Vista x64 and it absolutely screams. If you have at least a quad core setup with 4 Gigs of RAM, Vista won't give you any performance problems. I was a complete Vista hater until trying it out; between XP x64 or Vista x64, and decided to go with Vista, partially because the Boot Camp drivers were available for Vista x64 and not XP x64. I'm running Rhino 4, Maxwell 1.7, AutoCAD 2009 x64, and MicroStation v8 XM all without any issues (aside from the little "agree' window that pops open when I open Rhino or ACAD). I run the CS4 Suite over on the Mac OS X side.
though they are damn sexy ~ you'd be wasting money on a mac pro now by buying old(ish) xeon processors. Apple seems slow to take up the newest parts but the new dual socket nehalem (i7 chip architecture) based parts should be available sometime Q1 of '09 from Boxx and Dell... IMO, definitely worth the wait.
Don't get a Mac Pro now, as mentioned before the Xeons are outdated (but will hopefully be updated soon) also they are transitioning their products to Display Port and moving away from DVI. Otherwise they are solid computers I've had mine (a PowerMac G5) for 4 and a 1/2 years. (only replaced my hard drive 320gb to 500gb for more memory)
If price is a big issue a good Intel Xeon based Dell desktop workstation is a good alternative. (i'm assuming they are cheaper and suggesting that since they both use the same type of processor). beside they are more comparable to apples pro desktop offering and not some silly game machine.
I would personally get a desktop which is easy to open and clean and to replace your hard drive. It's one of the reasons my PowerMac has lasted so long (large removable side piece allows easy access to ram, HD and other bits and bobs), you'd be surprised how much dust a computer collects inside. Since ram prices dive bomb over time you can add more ram later at low cost and still keep your machine flying currently have 4.5gb of ram the new ones go up to 32GB.
"...and not some silly game machine." = shortsighted
the only thing that separates gaming machines from a workstation class computer is the software ~ and more specifically the drivers for a graphics card. gaming machines are some of the most robust and powerful computers around and what we do, computationally, as architects (model/render/graphics) demands much of the same strain on system components as those silly games ;)
macpros have typically been cheaper than comparable Dells, HPs and BOXX machines, sometimes by as much as $1k (even when adding the cost of a windows disk), plus they've been benchmarking faster. Not sure why since the specs are the same--kind of makes you wonder what Dell is doing to their machines…
I have one at home (early 2007 model) running XP32 and I recently got one at work (late 2008 model) which is running Vistax64, no issues beyond the typical Windows issues on either machine (they both seem more stable), though network printing from Vista is a bitch to get working properly and not all print tracking software works with Vista, let alone Vistax64…
"Rhino, 3ds Max, ACAD, Photoshop and Illustrator...... "
Ok, I know ACAD, Photoshop are but can someone shed light on what these other systems do: Rhino, 3ds, max and illustrator. I’m too lazy to search it on Google it, I prefer someone’s quick summary on this, beside I’m helping the economy by posing this question. So do comply plz.. Thanks a million
Need a Desktop
I've got a 4yr old Thinkpad that's not keeping up with all the new programs I have, surprise surprise. What kind of specs will get me through the next few years with a desktop? I'm running the usual - Rhino, 3ds Max, ACAD, Photoshop and Illustrator......
Does everyone get Dell these days? I don't have the techie skills to assemble a pc myself, so that's out of the question....looking to keep it under $2000.....
Check out the Dell Outlet store. They're pre-built so they can't be customized, but you can save yourself a couple of hundred bucks..
go to gotapex.com and see if you can find cool dicount code, or fatwallet>forum>hot deal...
under $2000? wow... i'm sure you can get almost top of the line model...
oh.. i did not read your post carefully...sorry
I would recommend buying from Dell. I bought my labtop and desktop from dell and i'm pretty happy with them. I've been building my own computer since 2000, but sometimes buying from dell comes out much cheaper.
I bought my desktop in 2006 and it's still serving me fine on programs that you listed. I spent $750 on it and I feel like i can at least use it for another 2-3 yrs. As for comparison, my desktop specs were/are:
2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo CPU | 1 GB of Ram (i bought more later at cheaper rate) | 80 GB HDD (I also bought later when hdd got cheaper). Basically, I spent the majority of budget on CPU at that time. With additional purchase, I spent around 1000 bucks.
In my opninon, i would invest the most of my budget on CPU just for future. Nonetheless, i would not pay 200 bucks difference for clock speed margin from .1 to .3. why would pay so much for 2.66 ghz when 2.4 is kicking butt?
Quadcore CPU would be awesome for rendering in 3ds max.. my friend's core 2 quad 2.4ghz renders almost twice as faster than my core 2 duo 2.4ghz..
As for ram, as much as you can, but 4 gigs would be okay for now, you can always buy another one later and install them. If you don't know how to install ram, then just get as much as you can.. say, 6 -8.
you don't want to spend too much money on graphic card though. You'd be fine with Dell's default graphic card, unless you're a gamer.
Hope this helps..
Building one yourself is way easier than you'd imagine. I'd say go that route. You can built a great machine for less than $1000
not sure if the link will work, but for under $1700, you can build a machine that WILL truly last a year or two and be twice the machine that dell would offer...
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=11775848]linky
building a pc is easy as pie... there's a recipe and process, just follow that and all is well. pie
the specs:
CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131346
RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227367
Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
Hard Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145215
Power supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371001
Windows http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116378
CPU Heatsink http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019
Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150314
I have five dell desktops, and two dell laptops at home.
we have around 40 dell precision workstations at my office.
i'm very happy with dell. i always buy the highest i can afford, and i HIGHLY recommend the outlet. two of my desktops are XPS, two are inspiron, and one is a precision, and both laptops are 17" insprion fully loaded.
if you can build your own you can get away with 1000$ less and of the time with quality parts.
i think trying to build your own pc is like trying to install roofing for the first time. at the end it costs more and it leaks.
i appreciate the cowgill's links (i truly checked it out,) but after reading the commentary of what problems people ran into, are you still interested? i wouldn't be. if you want to side tract yourself and spend all your time building a desktop and then deal with the internet boards so some stranger can solve your bios configuration etc.., and completely fall behind of your real project in the studio, go ahead...
otherwise turn around the corner and get yourself a professionally done computer, just as powerful, less expensive and someone guaranteeing you it works.
unless you are an egghead, which i suspect you are not because of your initial post.
with a $2000 computer these days, i think you can direct a space shuttle mission!
5 plugs. some snaps
btw, how good is windows xp 64 bit system? compared to vista?
i'm thinking of moving from xp 32, but i'm very reluctant to move to vista since i don't have many vista compatible programs.
thanks anti ;)
haha ...it only leaks if you're using water cooling
i'm not at all prepared to defend the goons that post reviewing components on Newegg nor waste time for arguments sake however, it really is not that hard, though it may be intimidating ;)
but to each their own, i feel it was well worth the initial research and investment in sweat equity to understand the ins-and-outs of the machines that we work with every day, for the rest of our careers and lives.
if it's the peace of mind of a warranty that is the determining factor, then be sure to get the "next day, 24x7, in home, +parts and labor... etc" that's offered for a kind $400.
fwiw: i bought a boxx for my workstation for the reasons Orhan has mentioned. I hand-built and overclocked my rendernodes myself but will not buy another pre-built machine (minus laptops) based on the knowledge gained by spec'ing and building my own.
prost!
most, if not all, major 3d viz houses and arch firms have not gone to Vista. XP 64 gets you all the meat you need without the added fat :) just make sure you're applications are 64 bit ready so as to make use of that generous RAM allocaton.
yw cowgill
shesh , maybe we should be box builders?
yes i recommend xp 64 bit too.
can we selll prebuilt PC's in the Archmart, i just posted my house there, pending admin approval.
haha ~ let's do it. we'll be the first archinect archmart entrepreneurs!
I have two computers, one a desktop and one a laptop, both Dells. I bought the desktop about 4 years ago and, at the time, it was a top of the line computer, and the laptop was just purchased this month, and it too was pretty close to top of the line. Both ran somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,800. The desktop, if I recall, had a 3.6G processor (not dual core) and 1 or 2G of RAM, as well as top of the line graphics and sound cards, DVD-R/W and 80G of memory. I still use this to run AutoCAD, as well as all of my standard Office programs (I did update the OS to Vista and Office to 2007). The laptop is a Dell XPS 1530 (15.4") with a 2.6G processor and 4G of ram. It has the built in camera, NVIDEA graphics card, 500G of memory, DVD R/W, Sound Blaster, Built in wireless, built in bluetooth, etc. and I run everything on this (Office, AutoCAD, SketchUp, CS4, Max).
Also, if you're looking for cheal, LEGAL software for students, check out academicsuperstore.com.
^also: http://www.studica.com/index.cfm
Get a computer with a quad-core CPU, either the Intel Core 2 Quad or the i7 if you want to be on the absolute cutting edge. Don't get AMD right now because they're slower. Get at least 4GB of RAM, or more if you can. Anything more than 4GB will need a 64 bit operating system. Also make sure that you leave some money left over for a good monitor ... that's a part of the computer that will have a more direct impact on your work than a lot of the other specs.
The video card can also have some impact on your graphics performance, depending on the program. In some cases a gaming card like the 9800GT will work as well as a professional video card (like a Quadro or a FireGL), but it some cases the professional card will be much faster ... I don't really remember what programs had the most significant differences off the top of my head, so you'll have to research and see.
I am buying my father this for xmas - he wants a simple computer (considered Apple, but no Blu-Ray):
Pretty nice package, actually considering one myself. HDTV tuner, one cable, all remote, etc.
https://ecomm2.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&itemtype=CFG
XPS ONE 24
XPS One™ (PRODUCT) RED™ with 24-in widescreen display and Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q8200 processor, Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate (PRODUCT) RED Service Pack 1
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800Mhz - 2 DIMMs
XPS One® Wireless Keyboard including trackpad and media controls
512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 9600M GT
750GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
Slot Load Blu-ray and 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capability
Sub Total $1,882.77
Coupon: http://www.cheapstingybargains.com/cheapster/dell-xps/
and just in case you had any doubt:
what about the issues of using vista with cracked programs? i hear the keygen that usually accompanies a crack is deemed as a virus to vista.
go big, steady, reliable and cool
go MAC PRO
Sorry achi, I wouldn't know about the crack, all my software is legit
I just upgraded my 8-core Mac Pro (late 2007) with 5 GB of RAM to Vista x64 and it absolutely screams. If you have at least a quad core setup with 4 Gigs of RAM, Vista won't give you any performance problems. I was a complete Vista hater until trying it out; between XP x64 or Vista x64, and decided to go with Vista, partially because the Boot Camp drivers were available for Vista x64 and not XP x64. I'm running Rhino 4, Maxwell 1.7, AutoCAD 2009 x64, and MicroStation v8 XM all without any issues (aside from the little "agree' window that pops open when I open Rhino or ACAD). I run the CS4 Suite over on the Mac OS X side.
though they are damn sexy ~ you'd be wasting money on a mac pro now by buying old(ish) xeon processors. Apple seems slow to take up the newest parts but the new dual socket nehalem (i7 chip architecture) based parts should be available sometime Q1 of '09 from Boxx and Dell... IMO, definitely worth the wait.
prost!
Don't get a Mac Pro now, as mentioned before the Xeons are outdated (but will hopefully be updated soon) also they are transitioning their products to Display Port and moving away from DVI. Otherwise they are solid computers I've had mine (a PowerMac G5) for 4 and a 1/2 years. (only replaced my hard drive 320gb to 500gb for more memory)
If price is a big issue a good Intel Xeon based Dell desktop workstation is a good alternative. (i'm assuming they are cheaper and suggesting that since they both use the same type of processor). beside they are more comparable to apples pro desktop offering and not some silly game machine.
I would personally get a desktop which is easy to open and clean and to replace your hard drive. It's one of the reasons my PowerMac has lasted so long (large removable side piece allows easy access to ram, HD and other bits and bobs), you'd be surprised how much dust a computer collects inside. Since ram prices dive bomb over time you can add more ram later at low cost and still keep your machine flying currently have 4.5gb of ram the new ones go up to 32GB.
^
"...and not some silly game machine." = shortsighted
the only thing that separates gaming machines from a workstation class computer is the software ~ and more specifically the drivers for a graphics card. gaming machines are some of the most robust and powerful computers around and what we do, computationally, as architects (model/render/graphics) demands much of the same strain on system components as those silly games ;)
macpros have typically been cheaper than comparable Dells, HPs and BOXX machines, sometimes by as much as $1k (even when adding the cost of a windows disk), plus they've been benchmarking faster. Not sure why since the specs are the same--kind of makes you wonder what Dell is doing to their machines…
I have one at home (early 2007 model) running XP32 and I recently got one at work (late 2008 model) which is running Vistax64, no issues beyond the typical Windows issues on either machine (they both seem more stable), though network printing from Vista is a bitch to get working properly and not all print tracking software works with Vista, let alone Vistax64…
"Rhino, 3ds Max, ACAD, Photoshop and Illustrator...... "
Ok, I know ACAD, Photoshop are but can someone shed light on what these other systems do: Rhino, 3ds, max and illustrator. I’m too lazy to search it on Google it, I prefer someone’s quick summary on this, beside I’m helping the economy by posing this question. So do comply plz.. Thanks a million
Sorry, to lazy to answer a question.
I can provide you a link to someone who can: www.google.com
Best of luck!
interoperability
GIMP, Inkscape, Blender
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