i'll just say, as an intern/job captain/designer/whatever, we're looking for a good mentor.

or at least i am.

i'm definitely struggling in my office, there is almost zero face time w/ bosses, and outside of that, most of the office is young and green.

so we roll in clusterfuck waves.

i used to mentor students when i ran the college woodshop for 4 years and seen some grow and others just kick boxes....they all graduated...... and to this day, i have friends that i would never thought would be registered and others that are creative and could give a shit about being registered.....

interesting....

i need a mentor...i need idp......... life goes on....

dear antipo,

i think its great that you are frustrated like this. I think you need to be in a position where you have more say over how these aspects of architecture practice are ordered.

Incidentally, did you work at DCM for a short time in Melbourne? And where are you based at the moment?

d

as a manager of about half of the design production of our office and a would-be mentor, i don't find that there is very much intellectual curiosity among the young staff in the office, no drive to make the work better. we have projects with the potential to be good but there isn't enough will across the company to make something good of them. a lot of these jobs kind of come in, go out, done.

i feel like i've reached the peak of my ability to affect firm culture and get people to CARE about the caliber of work that we do. the only place i really have that leverage is with the 7-8 projects under my direct watch.

i think i know where you're coming from, antipo...

as someone who's been doing this for a while, I think the main culpret here is time. 30 years back, offices just weren't the frenetic places they are today. senior people had both the desire and the time to invest in mentoring - today we just have the desire.

it's easy to say "we make time for what we think important" - and, at some level, I suppose that's true. but, on an inflation adjusted basis, fees today just aren't what they used to be, plus the service requirements are much higher - so we spend the time as best we can.

is this a self destructive trap - perhaps. is there much alternative - I don't see it.

another dimension to the problem: on a comparative basis, the schools today pump out grads much less prepared for the realities of an office environment. the academy freely admits that they "leave that stuff to the profession". so, at a time when there are great restraints on the profession's ability to mentor, the need for mentoring is expanding.

wish I had the answer. I don't.

i'm not really on the experienced side yet but must agree with what i think you're essentially saying, that there is a l o t of waste of brain power going on in architectural practice everywhere. this definitely makes people tire of the profession with time. if you as an architect have a professional diploma plus a postgraduate master's degree (european standards, guess it would be something like BArch + MArch 2 in the states) in many places you can find yourself still basically connecting the dots, having put in more or less the same amount of time in academia as people performing surgery in the hospitals. some would argue that there are too many architects and not enough draftsmen/technicians so people end up with tasks that are mundane given their skill level. firstly though, there can be a huge difference in quality between drafting being done by draftsmen compared to architects. so you do actually need skills to draft, beyond puting the lines on the paper. secondly, the ancient way most of the profession still technically go about the conception of projects and the production of drawings etc is an issue.
all in all i think the wearing down of young talent is only part due to the "nature of the profession", for the rest it's entirely up to company culture and to what extent senior staff are able to look beyond just getting stuff out the door. the misconceptions fed to arch students by academia as to what the profession is actually about is likely to contribute to disillusion as well. but again, it might be the prevailing attitudes in practice that are equally to blame..

sorry, posted that before i read npc's and quizzical's comments, both very illuminating.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments...

diabase - I haven't lived in Melbourne (though I love that city). I also know I have namesake who is also an architect, perhaps still in New Zealand?

not per corell - I would agree there is a feeling of apathy amongst many younger staff, like they expect their work to be neatly laid out for them so they don't have to think. Then, you work with a talented grad who is so hungry to learn that you just want to keep giving them stuff so they cram in as much experience as they have handle! It's awesome when you click as a team, and that's the kind of mentor connection I get the most out of. I think I have a level of seniority that I can make a difference in my office culture, and I've heard I send a good "vibe" and I'm fun to work with. However, I know I can only do so much in someone else's office...it's so frustrating I can't institute more change.

quizzical - Totally agree - time is our enemy and for many architects that are pushed into leadership roles, its a very nerve wracking thing to trust a greenie grad with your waterproofing details when you know you don't have the time to do them yourself. I've been fortunate to have worked in an office on a massive project with a faraway deadline, so there was a lot of time to "experiment" on teams to see what got them motivated and working together. I've lost much of the fear of delegating...

legeuse - Architectural education can definitely burn you out (I took a year out of the madness to work in an office), and the transition can be very hard between school and the office. Unfortunately many academics have spent limited time working in the profession, so their perspective is imparted onto new grads. I have a particularly bad experience in a job, where I just about burnt out on too much responsibility, not enough guidance, and I promised myself that I'd never go through that again. I think about that experience when I work with younger staff, because I wish I'd had a mentor I could go to when I needed one.


Something interesting I noticed when I was searching for my current job, there are lots of ads (rather, I was drawn to the ads) calling for architects with experience and a strong desire to mentor younger staff, grow the practice etc etc. Offices want project managers / architects that can train others, and there are many young architects who want to learn and be mentored, BUT...

Where are the architects who want to be mentors??? (Rather than the greatest designers or construction administrators *chuckle*)

I've also had random younger staff, who I had nothing to do with in my projects be really sad I'd be moving on to another place and say they'd wish they could have worked with me and that they looked up to me. It's kind of weird, but maybe just being a young, experienced, female architect who can laugh at the craziness we deal with in our day to day work madness makes a difference. I can't help but think that this could be a missing link to the disconnect between the younger generation, who want role models but won't admit it, and the older generation of architects, who just don't get Gen-Y.

I'll stop my book-length posting, but there is so much depth to this issue, you could write a book.

Moi? Haven't been in NZ for 5 years now. Fighting the good fight in London instead.

I've wondered a little about this since I graduated. Here in the UK they have a mandatory 'year out' in their bachelor's program, which is supported well by the industry. I think it's helps a greta deal with student's development and eases the transition to office work once they graduate.

I was quite lucky with my first job in Auckland, I had two guys from the (now defunct) Ministry of Works, who were total pedants when it came to detailign and drawing production. It taught me a lot of good skills and a bit of pride in the things I produce, be it a single detail, or the design for a whole building. They seemed to take it as read that developing my skills was an integral part of their job, and not just from a business poitn of view. I think that an appreciation of architecture-as-craft has been lost or at least diminished in the last couple of generations. As mentioned above I think it's the reality of architecture-as-business that has a lot to do with it. I know that working with developers has definitely had an impact on my 'care-factor'.

7 years down the track I now find myself in charge of a team of three guys in Poland doing drawing for my project. I can assure you that it adds a whole new dimension to the team dynamic when you've never actually met most of them, and 99% of your communication is via email. Right now I'm struggling to produce information which meets even a minimum standard for what I would expect. How on earth do I mentor guys who are 4000 miles away?

Antipo, just try and take some solace in the fact that you are one of the people who does give a damn, and that there are people out there working right now who've benefitted from working with you.

Having worked in a few offices, I've found quite the opposite is true though I can definitely see how someone in a management position would be oblivious to it. It only takes being shot down a couple of times to learn to bite your tongue and keep your head down.

you're assuming s/he had seen something to shoot down, 4arch. i'm thinking it's likely not. our environment isn't a 'shooting down' kind of environment by any means, and i've see the same lack of initiative.

unfortunately, most projects aren't worth being curious about.

Good mentors are essential to the profession.

Having had a number of "mentors" over the years, however, I do have some criticisms.

When a mentor talks all the time about being a mentor, it undermines his/her mission. Most young architects want to feel capable of problem solving and self-motivated—not pandered to. They also don't want micromanagers hovering over them.

The best mentor I ever had would explain the task to me, then leave me to work on it for a while. When he'd come back, if I hadn't done it quite right, rather than preaching, he'd sit down and we'd figure it out together. No pandering, no preaching. He genuinely respected my input, and I respected what he had to teach.

The worst mentor I ever had was very knowledgeable. But he knew it, and every discussion of a problem became an opportunity for him to "instruct" his young disciples. He would take over the conversation and produce sketch after sketch without listening, without input, like a lecturer at a blackboard. Everyone who worked with him hated him.

The way you'll get people to work and be interested is to make them feel engaged. This means letting them make decisions and be responsible for their time.

as an intern that's just now finishing up my first year at my first arch gig, (after a 4yr pre-prof+3yr M.arch) I must first say that I am hopeful this thread even exists...

i know good mentors are out there, i'm just not working for a single one of them right now (though soon to change)

everything in this thread is pretty much spot-on... school sets you up for one thing - and you don't get that when you start working, the projects DO suck (even if you are good at making the most of them), the people that should be mentoring you are to worried about buying another goddamn show horse to care about whether or not you're really evolving professionally, the generation(s) that are in mentor roles - don't seem interested in grooming anyone to be better than they were/are... just want to get the shit done to go home and rinse+repeat, the disconnect between said generations is too great, you get too burned out generating CD's for 60+ hr's/wk without stop - to keep yourself fresh and engaged...

i should say, I'm not the "i shit ice cream type" of intern (others here can justify)... and my ideas (since i actually have some) are pretty far from the norm of my overly-conservative firm but when your input is discarded by nothing other than virtue of your POSITION (er, intern) without any validation, you quickly find out that it's a futile struggle to shovel marbles uphill

... my bitch list goes on but all i can do is learn from my current situ, change it, make sure I get into a better position in my next gig and hope i can work with someone that gives a damn... like those commenting on this thread.