I’m in bit of a bind with myself and my job right now and wondering if you guys can help me out with some advice. Much thanks in advance for the input!
The quick and dirty of it is I’m fresh out of grad school, with minimal previous architecture related work experience (previously worked in real estate), basically just summers with about a year of experience total.
After searching for months I finally got a gig in a small firm (3 of us in here) with one project under construction, and nearing completion. One other waiting on a public review, and we should start another joint venture project in about a month.
When I first took the position being this small of a firm I figured I’d get to do a variety of things not just the typical Cad-monkey stuff that my peers in similar entry level jobs are doing. However I haven’t even done that…Sadly it’s mostly office work and organizing type tasks. Excel-over-Cad, and calling installers for personal jobs, rather than those related to any projects we have. So I’m more or less an assistant to the principal, and while I figured I’d do a little of that, I did not figure I’d be doing it a majority of the time.
I’m worried because I really don’t do too much after that. It’s the typical Office Space feeling of coming to my desk for 9 hrs yet only really doing 2 hrs of meaningful work Although we don’t have Hawaiian shirt day…In addition my boss just told me that next month could be “pretty slow.” So while I’m grateful he’s a nice guy and trying to find me stuff to do to fill my time, I’m worried that I’m just wasting mine.
My main concern, and question to all of you guys out there is this how it’s supposed to be? Even in a small firm shouldn’t I still be doing more architecture related tasks than general office ones. I’m wondering if this is how it was for others in a similar situation?
I want to learn as much as possible and have been trying to be vigilant about learning from everyone, but I feel like I could be learning a lot more somewhere else since I’d hopefully be doing a lot more of real architecture related work throughout the day. I have a few connections at a VERY large corporate firm (offices, airports, mixed use, etc), that have been trying to get me to work for them for a lil while now. So while I don’t necessarily want to work for that style of a company, more and more that seems like a better opportunity right now.
I’ve only been here a few months but more and more it is becoming intolerable. I don’t want to burn any bridges either, but I just feel like I’m wasting away…Help!
I wouldn't worry about burning bridges if you decide to move on and treat the current firm respectably in doing so. Fresh interns move around a lot.
That said, the first bit of time out of school *is* often a lot of menial work. In the old days it was running prints for hours on end, today it's putting Excel spreadsheets in the docs (actually in the mid-old days it would have been printing the Excel spreadsheets on sticky back and sticking them to the vellum sheets - eek!).
I also don't think there is anything wrong with having an honest conversation with your boss in which you say you're not comfortable doing personal tasks for him. And I think you're right that a larger corporate firm might give you broader exposure to the field.
yeah i dont know if your expectations were higher since you are coming out of grad school for your first real work experience, but my first job i essentially spent in the print room running blueprints, sometimes for 8 hours a day
granted i didnt have my degree yet, but it was my first bit of experience
i would sit down with your boss and tell him of your frustration. make sure you do it politely and not come across like you are too good for the work they have you doing. just let him know you would like the opportunity to work on other things.
if nothing else, maybe they can start taking you to meetings with them, to give you a taste of what that is like. I think having a conversation with your boss will get this issue on his radar, so when things come up, he will have it in the back of his head that maybe you could do it, or at least be there when he does it and observe.
i wouldnt worry about working for a large firm right now thinking thats not the "style" of firm you want to be at long term. you just graduated, and this job or your next job doesnt need to be where you spend the next 15 years.
right now its all about gaining experience, and if you can do that better somewhere else, it might be best to go there.
definitely talk with your boss first, dont decide to go anywhere else then talk to your boss. if you give him the courtesy of letting him know your frustration, you might get some better opportunities, or he might advise you to look elsewhere now, due to their slow work load. but if you just decide to leave then tell him, he might feel blindsided, when he could have helped change your situation if he had known. its possible he doesnt understand what your day to day work is missing.
talk with your employer first.
he probably paying from his salary to keep you around in case the jobs come through.
or,
he might be a really nice guy feeling resp[onsible for your employment since he just hired you and might be relieved that you want to leave on your own.
remember at your level the job is just not a job. these are your formative years and you have a lot to learn about the field you have studied. if there is no work where you are in coming weeks, put your foot on the pedal and go somewhere where you will be utilized and thought and engaged as an intern. sure, you might be doing a lot of menial work, we all did, but at least there will be real projects assigned to you.
i might be the oddball out on this one... but my experiences, including internships, were not like office space. i worked at a bunch of different types of firms - all different sizes. my first firm was small- 4 people. the owner/president was always so busy that she often had me designing quick things, and even had me make a presentation to the community board- and i was only in the summer of my 3rd year of school (b.arch).
i worked at two more firms, progressively getting to bigger firms. each one i had a variety of responsibilities- and at all of them i was able to design a few things... no matter how small or big.
i agree with Orhan- these are your formative years, and you better get as varied experiences as possible. i gave my intern this summer a few masterplanning exercises just to see what he could come up with. some of his ideas we did use.
I agree - talk with your boss - they seem like they are reasonable people if they are telling you that things might slow down in the near future. They probably just need some guidance in terms of what sort of work is appropriate for a recent grad.
I'd always arm myself with IDP items whenever I felt I wasn't getting proper training.
An expert on the topic of Organizational Behavior once told me the following:
1. You should hand in our final notice the day you loose respect for your boss(es). It has been proven that after you loose respect for your boss, you will probably leave the company very shortly.
2. Remember: You have a relationship with your boss...and with any relationship...it is a two way street.
You provide a valuable service to your employer.
What does your employer provide you in return (other than money and benefits)?...respect, knowledge, mentoring / IDP, etc.
Note: During the last recession, I made a huge mistake by taking the first and only job that I could get. I never asked myself the above questions. I didn't last in that job for long...I resigned in only a few months.
Also, I think a lot of interns get a "wake-up call" when they first enter the "real world" of working at a firm.
At a very small firm (3 people), you will be doing a lot of office administration...writing letters, faxes, answering telephones, getting the boss his coffee, etc.
I work in a small firm (about 20 people). Luckily, we have Project Assistants who help us with office administration (about 5 assistants).
I should note that the higher you get in a firm, the more paper work and meetings you will probably have to do. Expect more CAD work at the beginning.
Also, I would recommend starting NCARB / IDP right now!!! After all, you will need IDP if you want to become licensed.
In 3 months, ask for a performance review (many firms have a 90 day review for new hires...and 6 months, 12 months, etc.) Show your mentor / boss your IDP chart. Ask your boss: How can we start filling the other categories?
I am constantly pining up my latest IDP chart on my boss’s bulletin board. I ALWAYS remember to bring a latest copy of my IDP chart to my annual review meetings.
Also, think about joining your local AIA or CSI chapters. You can become an "Associate" AIA member. Both organizations are great for networking and learning new things. If you become an ACTIVE member, it looks GREAT during your annual review...which could mean more money!!!
+i - my first job was definitely like that - I even designed a farmer's market and an elementary school within my first year. There were some menial tasks thrown in there, but I had a really varied and great experience. and this was a 200+ person firm.
Guys Thanks for all the meaningful and insightful comments.
kevindesigns that was great advice! Luckily I am loggin a lil IDP too, so i guess its not all a waste.
Orhan thanx too I didn't think about the flipside either...
eek i don't likey, the office is not funny at all. its scary in a sartrean sort of hell way when it comes to tempo and time flow. and the characters' psyches are soul sucking humourless vortices underneath the puppeted hide of the actors.
solidsnake;
I'm quiting my job as well. Its my first and I have been a good child of god for three years though i never liked it. i handed in my resignation and three ascending bosses each stradling his own stratosphere level tried to talk me into not resigning (and honest to whateverness, i dont understand why, i don't do much ... though i learnt stuff). they all ask why..i also don't understand why someone cannot resign in silence and peace; why can't there be an assumption that the end does not have to be rationalized. anyway, sweetness halo'ed, i tell them its personal and nothing at all professional because i know that they, strateopherers, have their magic formula that works for them and you can't blaspheme against their formula...as professionals, they won't compute. can one tell their soon to be x-bosses that their designs almost all suck because its a composed pastiche of generic design gestures...or that they are not helping make the world a fairer place to live in, that theres something a little too impractical about one to be happy in a money-making factory, that sometimes...
anyway, i'm getting another job with another firm that also takes you in and churns you out in brittle spaghetti sticks.
i had the misunderstanding when i was in school doing internships- as have most of the students i have taught since and most of the interns i have had- that you will get to do much more design fresh out of school in a smaller firm. my experience has been that this couldn't be farther from the truth. mostly because small firms have their "bread and butter" projects to make the firm profitable. also, they can't afford to have a printing company, assistants, etc- so you get stuck doing this office admin stuff yourself. i have done a GREAT deal more of high design in the large international "corporate" firm i'm at now than i ever did at a small firm. and i have an office assistant to make my life a little easier.
the other factor to consider is the economic downturn. smaller firms tend to not get projects in international markets. it becomes much more difficult during recessions. in larger firms there are usually smaller studios within the firm- and these smaller studios act like firms within themselves- so you still get the intimate scale of working with people and hashing out designs with a team, but the benefits of a larger firm behind you.
although that is just my experience.
one caveat: *even though i was able to do a few design projects at the small firms i was at- keep in mind i was only there for a few months. i still had the admin/office stuff to do as well.
sniff on architectural work...ask ask ask beside ur office work,,and when u feel that the whole week experience can be gained in one day..then leave them
my office is more like Hee Haw lately than Office Space, but I know what you mean...
To get more involved in projects, when you overhear someone in the office talking about how X has to be revised to coordinate with Y (or something to that effect), maybe you can speak up and say, "I'll do it!" Or otherwise find some architectural tasks without waiting for them to be handed to you.
almost forgot, the scene with the fax machine in the field was awesome! hehehe I love the gangsta music and the bad assesness during that scene....that fax machine totally deserved what it got, that SOB, now if only I can think of a way to wheel the bloody photo copier out thru the back without being scene, that hunk o junk has been pissing me off for years.
Is my job supposed to be like Office Space?
Hi guys,
I’m in bit of a bind with myself and my job right now and wondering if you guys can help me out with some advice. Much thanks in advance for the input!
The quick and dirty of it is I’m fresh out of grad school, with minimal previous architecture related work experience (previously worked in real estate), basically just summers with about a year of experience total.
After searching for months I finally got a gig in a small firm (3 of us in here) with one project under construction, and nearing completion. One other waiting on a public review, and we should start another joint venture project in about a month.
When I first took the position being this small of a firm I figured I’d get to do a variety of things not just the typical Cad-monkey stuff that my peers in similar entry level jobs are doing. However I haven’t even done that…Sadly it’s mostly office work and organizing type tasks. Excel-over-Cad, and calling installers for personal jobs, rather than those related to any projects we have. So I’m more or less an assistant to the principal, and while I figured I’d do a little of that, I did not figure I’d be doing it a majority of the time.
I’m worried because I really don’t do too much after that. It’s the typical Office Space feeling of coming to my desk for 9 hrs yet only really doing 2 hrs of meaningful work Although we don’t have Hawaiian shirt day…In addition my boss just told me that next month could be “pretty slow.” So while I’m grateful he’s a nice guy and trying to find me stuff to do to fill my time, I’m worried that I’m just wasting mine.
My main concern, and question to all of you guys out there is this how it’s supposed to be? Even in a small firm shouldn’t I still be doing more architecture related tasks than general office ones. I’m wondering if this is how it was for others in a similar situation?
I want to learn as much as possible and have been trying to be vigilant about learning from everyone, but I feel like I could be learning a lot more somewhere else since I’d hopefully be doing a lot more of real architecture related work throughout the day. I have a few connections at a VERY large corporate firm (offices, airports, mixed use, etc), that have been trying to get me to work for them for a lil while now. So while I don’t necessarily want to work for that style of a company, more and more that seems like a better opportunity right now.
I’ve only been here a few months but more and more it is becoming intolerable. I don’t want to burn any bridges either, but I just feel like I’m wasting away…Help!
I wouldn't worry about burning bridges if you decide to move on and treat the current firm respectably in doing so. Fresh interns move around a lot.
That said, the first bit of time out of school *is* often a lot of menial work. In the old days it was running prints for hours on end, today it's putting Excel spreadsheets in the docs (actually in the mid-old days it would have been printing the Excel spreadsheets on sticky back and sticking them to the vellum sheets - eek!).
I also don't think there is anything wrong with having an honest conversation with your boss in which you say you're not comfortable doing personal tasks for him. And I think you're right that a larger corporate firm might give you broader exposure to the field.
Sorry to be short on this, running out to lunch.
yeah i dont know if your expectations were higher since you are coming out of grad school for your first real work experience, but my first job i essentially spent in the print room running blueprints, sometimes for 8 hours a day
granted i didnt have my degree yet, but it was my first bit of experience
i would sit down with your boss and tell him of your frustration. make sure you do it politely and not come across like you are too good for the work they have you doing. just let him know you would like the opportunity to work on other things.
if nothing else, maybe they can start taking you to meetings with them, to give you a taste of what that is like. I think having a conversation with your boss will get this issue on his radar, so when things come up, he will have it in the back of his head that maybe you could do it, or at least be there when he does it and observe.
i wouldnt worry about working for a large firm right now thinking thats not the "style" of firm you want to be at long term. you just graduated, and this job or your next job doesnt need to be where you spend the next 15 years.
right now its all about gaining experience, and if you can do that better somewhere else, it might be best to go there.
definitely talk with your boss first, dont decide to go anywhere else then talk to your boss. if you give him the courtesy of letting him know your frustration, you might get some better opportunities, or he might advise you to look elsewhere now, due to their slow work load. but if you just decide to leave then tell him, he might feel blindsided, when he could have helped change your situation if he had known. its possible he doesnt understand what your day to day work is missing.
through your computers speakers...
is there a cute Pam at the front desk???
Karen>Pam
talk with your employer first.
he probably paying from his salary to keep you around in case the jobs come through.
or,
he might be a really nice guy feeling resp[onsible for your employment since he just hired you and might be relieved that you want to leave on your own.
remember at your level the job is just not a job. these are your formative years and you have a lot to learn about the field you have studied. if there is no work where you are in coming weeks, put your foot on the pedal and go somewhere where you will be utilized and thought and engaged as an intern. sure, you might be doing a lot of menial work, we all did, but at least there will be real projects assigned to you.
In a word, yes. This is how many people start out, in our field and others. It's called paying one's dues, and it won't last forever.
no one's mentioned flair!
i might be the oddball out on this one... but my experiences, including internships, were not like office space. i worked at a bunch of different types of firms - all different sizes. my first firm was small- 4 people. the owner/president was always so busy that she often had me designing quick things, and even had me make a presentation to the community board- and i was only in the summer of my 3rd year of school (b.arch).
i worked at two more firms, progressively getting to bigger firms. each one i had a variety of responsibilities- and at all of them i was able to design a few things... no matter how small or big.
i agree with Orhan- these are your formative years, and you better get as varied experiences as possible. i gave my intern this summer a few masterplanning exercises just to see what he could come up with. some of his ideas we did use.
don't settle.
I agree - talk with your boss - they seem like they are reasonable people if they are telling you that things might slow down in the near future. They probably just need some guidance in terms of what sort of work is appropriate for a recent grad.
I'd always arm myself with IDP items whenever I felt I wasn't getting proper training.
An expert on the topic of Organizational Behavior once told me the following:
1. You should hand in our final notice the day you loose respect for your boss(es). It has been proven that after you loose respect for your boss, you will probably leave the company very shortly.
2. Remember: You have a relationship with your boss...and with any relationship...it is a two way street.
You provide a valuable service to your employer.
What does your employer provide you in return (other than money and benefits)?...respect, knowledge, mentoring / IDP, etc.
Note: During the last recession, I made a huge mistake by taking the first and only job that I could get. I never asked myself the above questions. I didn't last in that job for long...I resigned in only a few months.
Also, I think a lot of interns get a "wake-up call" when they first enter the "real world" of working at a firm.
At a very small firm (3 people), you will be doing a lot of office administration...writing letters, faxes, answering telephones, getting the boss his coffee, etc.
I work in a small firm (about 20 people). Luckily, we have Project Assistants who help us with office administration (about 5 assistants).
I should note that the higher you get in a firm, the more paper work and meetings you will probably have to do. Expect more CAD work at the beginning.
Also, I would recommend starting NCARB / IDP right now!!! After all, you will need IDP if you want to become licensed.
In 3 months, ask for a performance review (many firms have a 90 day review for new hires...and 6 months, 12 months, etc.) Show your mentor / boss your IDP chart. Ask your boss: How can we start filling the other categories?
I am constantly pining up my latest IDP chart on my boss’s bulletin board. I ALWAYS remember to bring a latest copy of my IDP chart to my annual review meetings.
Also, think about joining your local AIA or CSI chapters. You can become an "Associate" AIA member. Both organizations are great for networking and learning new things. If you become an ACTIVE member, it looks GREAT during your annual review...which could mean more money!!!
+i - my first job was definitely like that - I even designed a farmer's market and an elementary school within my first year. There were some menial tasks thrown in there, but I had a really varied and great experience. and this was a 200+ person firm.
Guys Thanks for all the meaningful and insightful comments.
kevindesigns that was great advice! Luckily I am loggin a lil IDP too, so i guess its not all a waste.
Orhan thanx too I didn't think about the flipside either...
i was thinking The Office...
you can always rock it mdler style and get a job doing the drywall at the new McDonalds
eek i don't likey, the office is not funny at all. its scary in a sartrean sort of hell way when it comes to tempo and time flow. and the characters' psyches are soul sucking humourless vortices underneath the puppeted hide of the actors.
solidsnake;
I'm quiting my job as well. Its my first and I have been a good child of god for three years though i never liked it. i handed in my resignation and three ascending bosses each stradling his own stratosphere level tried to talk me into not resigning (and honest to whateverness, i dont understand why, i don't do much ... though i learnt stuff). they all ask why..i also don't understand why someone cannot resign in silence and peace; why can't there be an assumption that the end does not have to be rationalized. anyway, sweetness halo'ed, i tell them its personal and nothing at all professional because i know that they, strateopherers, have their magic formula that works for them and you can't blaspheme against their formula...as professionals, they won't compute. can one tell their soon to be x-bosses that their designs almost all suck because its a composed pastiche of generic design gestures...or that they are not helping make the world a fairer place to live in, that theres something a little too impractical about one to be happy in a money-making factory, that sometimes...
anyway, i'm getting another job with another firm that also takes you in and churns you out in brittle spaghetti sticks.
i had the misunderstanding when i was in school doing internships- as have most of the students i have taught since and most of the interns i have had- that you will get to do much more design fresh out of school in a smaller firm. my experience has been that this couldn't be farther from the truth. mostly because small firms have their "bread and butter" projects to make the firm profitable. also, they can't afford to have a printing company, assistants, etc- so you get stuck doing this office admin stuff yourself. i have done a GREAT deal more of high design in the large international "corporate" firm i'm at now than i ever did at a small firm. and i have an office assistant to make my life a little easier.
the other factor to consider is the economic downturn. smaller firms tend to not get projects in international markets. it becomes much more difficult during recessions. in larger firms there are usually smaller studios within the firm- and these smaller studios act like firms within themselves- so you still get the intimate scale of working with people and hashing out designs with a team, but the benefits of a larger firm behind you.
although that is just my experience.
one caveat: *even though i was able to do a few design projects at the small firms i was at- keep in mind i was only there for a few months. i still had the admin/office stuff to do as well.
sniff on architectural work...ask ask ask beside ur office work,,and when u feel that the whole week experience can be gained in one day..then leave them
my office is more like Hee Haw lately than Office Space, but I know what you mean...
To get more involved in projects, when you overhear someone in the office talking about how X has to be revised to coordinate with Y (or something to that effect), maybe you can speak up and say, "I'll do it!" Or otherwise find some architectural tasks without waiting for them to be handed to you.
"ummmm yeahhhhhhhh I'm gonna hafta go ahead and have you come in on Saturday....yeahhhhhhh"
dammit now I want to watch that flick again, by the by my job is like a cross between Office Space and Dilbert
almost forgot, the scene with the fax machine in the field was awesome! hehehe I love the gangsta music and the bad assesness during that scene....that fax machine totally deserved what it got, that SOB, now if only I can think of a way to wheel the bloody photo copier out thru the back without being scene, that hunk o junk has been pissing me off for years.
i wish i could come in on Sat
OT is very hard to come by these days
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