just out of curiosity, do other professions in the design business put in overtime with out pay? I see how in architecture firms, the constant last minute changes on top of the work load demands the need to work overtime + the budget doesn't allow for the extra $$. Are other professions, such as graphic / industrial / interior / animators /etc. in the same pool and architects just complain too much, or do their clients understand the demand and allow for the extra expense?
I do believe interior designers in many cases similarly reflect the OT that architects put in, all be it not as much in most cases.
Not sure about other "design" professions but I do know many computer techs and web designers who put in massive overtime. Much like architects they get hired to do a job and are paid either a pre-negotiated lump sum or on hourly basis. They don't get OT pay, in terms of 1.5 hourly but they do get paid much healthier than architects so I guess their clients do understand the extra expense - it's just right up front.
I have a lot of friends in illustration, animation, and multi-media design. Most of them work many more hours than I do, and most receive no overtime. Most of them have no benefits either, whereas at least I have insurance.
A few of them do get overtime - but they cite as the reason that they do not have professional degrees and so are not as easily justifiable as being in the Exempt Professional category.
Usually a professional degree (such as in architecture, engineering, medicing, law, etc.) makes it much easier for employers to categorize them as Exempt very early on, because the Department of Labor usually considers just the degree and a year or so of professional experience as enough to categorize them this way. Without a professional degree the employer usually would have to make a case that this person has many years of experience, works mostly independently, sets his own deadlines, etc.
is there not an overtime law/clause for "intern" architects, meaning those without a liscence? I am rather certain there is but I cannot seem to remember what it is or where to look for it. I do know that is says that overtime should be paid for all hours over 40 but many people do not know of it, including many that run firms.
Usually what happens when interns call the Department of Labor to investigate the firm is that the DOL determines that all employees with a professional degree and at least one year of fulltime work experience since graduation are Exempt Professionals - meaning that they can be salaried without overtime.
The actual wording of the labor laws would make one think that this should not be true - because they require that an Exempt Professional be in a position to set most of his own deadlines, make decisions, work mainly independently, etc. But in practice it doesn't work this way.
Non-managerial people without professional degrees or who are still in school or less than one year out can usually collect some back overtime by initiating an investigation of their firm. (Of course, this also often leads to their dismissal soon afterward for supposedly unrelated reasons, if the firm finds out who called in the DOL.) If the DOL finds in your favor you'll generally get overtime retroactively as far back as 2 years or more.
All of the web/graphic designers, 3D gurus, a few architects, and marketing all get time and a half for overtime where I am now. No one works more than 40 hours unless there are specific deadlines and the budget to do it.
That's how it should be everywhere.
The idea of Exempt Professional is ridiculous, imo.
All of the web/graphic designers, 3D gurus, a few architects, and marketing all get time and a half for overtime where I am now. No one works more than 40 hours unless there are specific deadlines and the budget to do it.
trace, is this due to special place you work, or local tendencies? (or both?)
I work in luxury goods industrial design/packaging right now. I'm good if I show up before 9:30-45 AM, finish what needs to get done, and then leave. If they need me to come in a little early for some reason, I do it. I'm never expected to work ridiculous overtime and the latest I've had to stay is 6pm. Never come in on weekends. I am usually out between 4:30-5. I have an assistant and we can decide to hire additional freelancers if I decide that we can't get it done on time working on something 9-5, M-F.
I am allowed to take a couple days off here and there (without using my vacation time or losing pay) as long as I stay late/come in extra to finish things before I go. They treat us really well in general. For example one of my coworkers has 2 young children, so she is allowed to work from home on Mondays and Fridays. She almost always leaves at 4 so she can pick her kids up from school. When her husband is away on business she comes in later and leaves earlier. And she never has a problem getting things done either.
Oh yeah, health insurance kicked in after just a few weeks.
Sep 24, 04 1:03 pm ·
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overtime in other design fields
just out of curiosity, do other professions in the design business put in overtime with out pay? I see how in architecture firms, the constant last minute changes on top of the work load demands the need to work overtime + the budget doesn't allow for the extra $$. Are other professions, such as graphic / industrial / interior / animators /etc. in the same pool and architects just complain too much, or do their clients understand the demand and allow for the extra expense?
I do believe interior designers in many cases similarly reflect the OT that architects put in, all be it not as much in most cases.
Not sure about other "design" professions but I do know many computer techs and web designers who put in massive overtime. Much like architects they get hired to do a job and are paid either a pre-negotiated lump sum or on hourly basis. They don't get OT pay, in terms of 1.5 hourly but they do get paid much healthier than architects so I guess their clients do understand the extra expense - it's just right up front.
I have a lot of friends in illustration, animation, and multi-media design. Most of them work many more hours than I do, and most receive no overtime. Most of them have no benefits either, whereas at least I have insurance.
A few of them do get overtime - but they cite as the reason that they do not have professional degrees and so are not as easily justifiable as being in the Exempt Professional category.
Usually a professional degree (such as in architecture, engineering, medicing, law, etc.) makes it much easier for employers to categorize them as Exempt very early on, because the Department of Labor usually considers just the degree and a year or so of professional experience as enough to categorize them this way. Without a professional degree the employer usually would have to make a case that this person has many years of experience, works mostly independently, sets his own deadlines, etc.
is there not an overtime law/clause for "intern" architects, meaning those without a liscence? I am rather certain there is but I cannot seem to remember what it is or where to look for it. I do know that is says that overtime should be paid for all hours over 40 but many people do not know of it, including many that run firms.
Usually what happens when interns call the Department of Labor to investigate the firm is that the DOL determines that all employees with a professional degree and at least one year of fulltime work experience since graduation are Exempt Professionals - meaning that they can be salaried without overtime.
The actual wording of the labor laws would make one think that this should not be true - because they require that an Exempt Professional be in a position to set most of his own deadlines, make decisions, work mainly independently, etc. But in practice it doesn't work this way.
Non-managerial people without professional degrees or who are still in school or less than one year out can usually collect some back overtime by initiating an investigation of their firm. (Of course, this also often leads to their dismissal soon afterward for supposedly unrelated reasons, if the firm finds out who called in the DOL.) If the DOL finds in your favor you'll generally get overtime retroactively as far back as 2 years or more.
All of the web/graphic designers, 3D gurus, a few architects, and marketing all get time and a half for overtime where I am now. No one works more than 40 hours unless there are specific deadlines and the budget to do it.
That's how it should be everywhere.
The idea of Exempt Professional is ridiculous, imo.
so how does you firm churn out the package ( design - final ) within budget and 40hr/week schedule? (if the budget doesn't allow you to)
trace, is this due to special place you work, or local tendencies? (or both?)
I work in luxury goods industrial design/packaging right now. I'm good if I show up before 9:30-45 AM, finish what needs to get done, and then leave. If they need me to come in a little early for some reason, I do it. I'm never expected to work ridiculous overtime and the latest I've had to stay is 6pm. Never come in on weekends. I am usually out between 4:30-5. I have an assistant and we can decide to hire additional freelancers if I decide that we can't get it done on time working on something 9-5, M-F.
I am allowed to take a couple days off here and there (without using my vacation time or losing pay) as long as I stay late/come in extra to finish things before I go. They treat us really well in general. For example one of my coworkers has 2 young children, so she is allowed to work from home on Mondays and Fridays. She almost always leaves at 4 so she can pick her kids up from school. When her husband is away on business she comes in later and leaves earlier. And she never has a problem getting things done either.
Oh yeah, health insurance kicked in after just a few weeks.
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