Hell no.

well working in NY has plus side too, esp. for singles? also there're a lot more activities and groups that will interests you...

yes, but that gets old fast.

Bottom line is, if you like to party there's few better places than NYC. But you risk putting yourself in a financial hole for the luxury of living here. I will admit, to some people this town is a veritable utopia despite its drawbacks. But, after 4 years of living here I'm ready to leave.

most people in new york work too hard to properly party

but you will be among the elite in a way that you wont be in any other city
so if you dig that, you gotta be in nyc

to work in that unique place with most complexity and simplicity for couple of years might not be a bad idea.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

that's rich. keep tellin' yourself that, buddy.

useasbacku : if you go to retirement home there is non-stop activity there, for 'singles' . 'course you have first to retire and do not drop dead before SS kicks in togehter with your lion erarnings from non-taxable 401K.

New york definitely offers something unique which you can get nowhere else. NY might have more opportunities than other cities, you get broader perspective, you've chance to know more people... I guess I can live in NJ to bring down the cost?

come on, so many people working in NY, why you choose to stay?

i mean, new york is totally different crowd than, say, minneapolis...

<sarcasm>yeah, cause, you know everybody in Minneapolis is just so common</sarcasm>

well they all talk like those people from fargo
even vincent james says doncha know

Minneapolis is probably one of the best quality of life cities anywhere in the world. I think its one of the best educated too.

You really can't get a richer environment in terms of bars/music/art/general trendiness than NYC in America, but a lot of cities come close without having to live pretty far away from it; my friends that live there spend a lot of time commuting... but it's a huge mass of creative people, just due to the size of the city... it can also be pretty unpleasant just to be there sometimes.

Given any thought to London??

ps you can't find a worse accent than NYC, for sure, Nic ;)

evil ... two words ... Jesse Ventura.

How could a state as well educated as MN ever go for that guy ?

i can't stand any american accents pretty much

but i do like minnesota, wisconsin, illinois, indiana, iowa... all good places

zip to zap North Dakota.....live out the recession in luxury....potato fed nubile women....telephone post tree line and most important ...
American OIL! You can always hang at the Lawrence Welk Museum for exciting weekends. you just have to learn a couple of Norske terms and you will be well on your way to never wanting NYC....
ufda (oooofda)...is a main line word and " ya bet sha" with a long slow articulation...will most likely get those No Daks looking at ya!

...kentucky. keep it goin', mr benjamin.

my sense of friends' lives in ny was that somehow, as civilized as it is, then center of everything and all that, a LIFE there is still so provisional. i mean, it's like you're constantly having to find the stuff you need to live - constantly a pioneer making new discoveries. i'd get very tired. i like to know where things are coming from and be adventurous on MY terms, ya know?

lived in mpls for three years. it's beautiful, the people are highly educated, and it's COLD. it doesn't stop being cold for months on end and then it's HOT for two months, and then it's COLD all over again.

I live in what's called "a frontier community" in NYC. That's a euphemism for neighborhood that hasn't gotten completely gentrified...yet.

I stake out a simple life for myself in-between check cashing joints and liquor stores. Living off the land and eating hardy meals of fried chicken and roti. Churches are always packed on Sunday, and the Gospel can be heard in the streets.

I live in NYC, and it's incredibly rare for me to hear a "real" New York accent. Most of the accents I hear on a daily basis are Latino, Indian, Pakistani, Russian, Polish, German, various flavors of Asian, and God knows what else.

Funny thing is, there's a conductor on the Q train who has the thickest Chicago accent I've ever heard in my life. You'd think his train took a wrong turn on its way to Bridgeport.

I moved here from Chicago a little over a year ago, and there's good and bad things about living/working in NYC. Keep in mind that what's good and bad for me may not necessarily be good or bad for you.

The good: There's tons of creative energy in NYC, and New York has a very active architectural community. There's several excellent schools of architecture in town, and several more excellent schools a short train ride away. There's always lectures, exhibitions, gallery openings, and tons of networking and social opportunities. There's enough firms in the city that if your first firm doesn't work out, there's plenty of other places in town where you can send your CV. Public transit is excellent, there's beautiful parks everywhere, and there's lots of interesting things to see within a couple hours of the city. You can get to the beach via subway train or commuter train, and you can get to the mountains via another commuter train. Also, the city's economy is still in decent shape; so far we've avoided the worst of the real estate crash that the rest of the country is dealing with. Although hiring isn't is brisk as it was this time last year, it certainly doesn't feel like a recession, either.

The bad: Unless you have a big fat trust fund in your back pocket, be prepared for your general quality of life to take a huge hit. Today I just signed a lease for a smallish studio apartment in Washington Heights for $1425 a month... And my co-workers are congratulating me for finding such a good deal without going through a broker. Apartment-hunting in NYC is a very painful exercise in lowering expectations. I try not to think about how $1425 a month could get me a pretty sweet apartment back in Chicago or Philly, or how I could live like a king in Cincinnati or Portland for that much. (But then, I'd also be making far less money in any of those cities.) For me, the biggest drawback to living in NYC isn't crime -- statistically, New York is a very safe city -- but the obnoxious things like loud stereos, car alarms, ice cream trucks, people yelling and shouting out on the street at all hours of the day and night, and petty vandalism and general filth. There's tons of people in this city who you'd think were raised by wild animals, and you'll be in close proximity to those people anytime you walk down the sidewalk or ride the subway.

Do I think the good points outweigh the bad points? Usually, yes. Sometimes, no. Ask me again this time next year, and I'll tell you if I renewed my lease or not.

NYC is a great place to live for less than 2 years-3 tops.

I know I LOVED it here the first couple years, but now, despite a move to brooklyn and a well paying job, this place just ain't for me.

Sorry but the thought of getting on a train to get to the beach or mountains just doesn't compute as being good, no matter what city it is.

I was debating just the other day that if I moved one block over over the walk to the ski hill in my ski boots would be two blocks, but my walk to the beach would be at least 100m closer..... its a tough call where to move.

But you have a hell of a walk to get to the Strand.

Well, taking a train to the beach or mountains may not be ideal, but it beats the hell out of having to go to an airport and flying a thousand miles and renting a car at the other end.

What train gets you to the mountains? Amtrak? I took it up to Montreal once and it took me 10 hours to get there, a car would've taken about 7.

Metro North goes as far as Poughkeepsie, and I believe it even has a station at the Appalachian Trail. Granted, it's not the Oregon Cascades, but at least it's a nice change of scenery from Manhattan.

thanks everyone esp. Living in gin for the detailed info.

I've never lived in NY but I basically agree with you of the good and bad things of NY. except two things: there're not a lot of beautiful parks in NY , almost no-green space outside central park. and probably i don't have much experiences ( 2 yrs),salary won't increase much than other cities.

one thing I found interesting of the city is what you said of " the bad" , it's so different than other cities, such as Chicago, SF, Shanghai, which are all big cities...anyway, thanks...

useas, there parks on every other block in most parts of NYC. Prospect in Brooklyn is massive and better designed than central.

useasbacku:
i think you need to get out more! there's tons of green space in NYC. even in Manhattan there's lots of great spots; you got to broaden your horizons. And taking the LIRR to the beach is amazing, and i don’t care what you guys say! it really is.

this is a random tangent...but seriously...i need to get this off of my chest...


I REALLY REALLY REALLY HATE living in DALLAS.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE ARE JUDGEMENTAL UPTIGHT PRICKS.
AND THEY ALL STRIVE TO BE THE MOST BORING F$CKING PEOPLE ALIVE.
AND I DON'T FIT IN.
THEY MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I'M SOME SORT OF CIRCUS FREAK FOR HAVING ANY SORT OF PERSONALITY OR PREFERENCES...i'm not blonde, i don't wear designer clothes, b/c i don't waste my money on 500 dollar i phones that will serve no other purpose than to txt their friends while at work!!!

AND IT IS HARD TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
AT LEAST IN NEW YORK PEOPLE KNOW THAT EVERYONE INCLUDING THEMSELVES IS A FREAK...i mean that everyone in new york is weird--but in a cool way...like they have personalities...and pretty much anything goes.

I've lived in new orleans...it's cool, people are cool...
i've lived in philadelphia...the people there are pretty cool..
AND I'M SURE it's that way WITH EVERY OTHER CITY OTHER THAN DALLAS AND HOUSTON...B/C THEY JUST SUCK ASS.

thanks for your time, and letting me vent.

ps. i am hoping to move in the next year out of the state of texas...or even to austin would be fine...just out of dallas

pps. this is just a personal opinion and it is in no way meant to offend anyone who currently lives in dallas[hey, i do currently] or grew up here[yes, i did--the metroplex] or even knows people that live here[i know alot! and the few i know are cool...but seriously...they are outnumbered...]

Live here because it is beautiful, and you want to be surrounded by really smart and equally neurotic people. It is generally not comfortable, which I think is a good thing if you are young.

I actually prefer Minneapolis people (lived there for 9 years), but you have to drive everywhere and there is no ocean. There is, however, an amazing state fair.

NYC is the best city in america!!! Ive been to alot of them not lived in many others and they can't compare. People from the whole world move here to chase their dreams.....not only architects! Move there for a while and see if you can swim!

wonder if you have to be a certain type of person... to like it for a long time.

Apurimac I'm intrigued where do you live??

Seeing that I am giving up my job AND apartment shortly and a little tired of The Bean, this is a super timely & helpful thread.

NYC is an awesome city. To visit.

NY is exciting and full of opportunities. I don't think I'm going to buy a house or settle down in five years, so I guess I'll give it a try in NY...won't know how it works if I don't make the plunge.

seems architectural firms < 10 person all do residential, renovation or interior works, not a lot of public bldg type... does project type matter much for career development of a young architect like me? thanks.

"AT LEAST IN NEW YORK PEOPLE KNOW THAT EVERYONE INCLUDING THEMSELVES IS A FREAK...i mean that everyone in new york is weird--but in a cool way...like they have personalities...and pretty much anything goes."

Yeah, but they are all self-conscious and stylized freaks, many of whom get their cues for their "weirdness" from the media (this is the media capital after all) and are all "freaks" in the exact same way. And this is from someone who lives in NYC.

It's not as different from the rest of the USA as it likes to think it is-just take the materialism, capitalism, self centeredness, conformity, and yes the diversity of modern America to an extreme and double the price of everything and you have NYC.

Here in NYC, the vast majority of your work will probably be renovations and/or interiors. The number of existing buildings far outweighs the amount of land available for new construction, so get ready to spend lots of time taking field measurements and verifying existing conditions.

I don't think the project types matter as much as getting a wide range of experience in as many project types as possible... And I think residential and interiors work are usually pretty good project types to get a firm background in before moving onto larger and more complicated stuff.

I agree with everything odb said about this town, he's dead on.

Conormac, i live in Crown Heights on the "poor side" of Bedford ave off Nostrand. I live in the north west corner where Crown Heights, Bed Sty, and Prospect Heights all start to blend into one another. None of my friends like my neighborhood, and the crackheads may have something to do with that, but I like it, especially compared to my hole of a place on the UWS that cost more to rent than I could afford. The neighbors are typical Brooklynites, which means they all hang out in the streets, are nice as hell to your face, but they will talk about you behind your back. In that respect its similar to living in the South or China. Despite the neighborhood's rough edges (or because of them) they are building a huge condo development across the street from me (I'm assuming) and many of the tenants in my building seem to keep getting evicted because rent is getting raised due to encroaching gentrification.

archinect generic response #37:

"some people like it; some people don't."

I just don't get wanting to work architecture in NYC. When I looked into it all the firms said the average work week was 50+ hours and it was common to work over 60 hours. Then the salary range I was quoted was only 10-20% over what I was already making in a much lower cost of living city. The "experience" didn't seem worth it to me.

Agreed that NYC is interesting, unique, quirky, etc. But a city is what you make of it. If all you do is bitch and moan about where you live of course anything else will look good. But don't fall into the "grass is greener" trap. Often times that new place isn't everything you've built it up to be.

Agreed about the "grass is always greener" trap, as it's a trap I've fallen into many times... And it's one of the reasons I've moved around as much as I have. Sometimes I get frustrated with NYC and wish I were living elsewhere, but I also know that as soon as I move somewhere else, I'll probably be wishing I was back in New York.

Lately Cincinnati has been looking pretty good to me... I grew up there and still have a lot of family there (who aren't getting any younger), so that's part of the reason, but also because it's very scenic, has a nice urban core without being overwhelming, and has dirt-cheap housing. If I go to the University of Cincinnati for my M.Arch., their co-op program would still allow me to alternate quarters working in NYC if I so choose, or give me the opportunity to explore a few other places. Once I graduate, I could stay in Cincy, or move back to NYC or elsewhere.

Maybe it's just a passing phase I'm going through in response to a lot of quality-of-life-related stress here in NYC at the moment, but at least I have a few months to think about it. Probably still too early to say whether NYC is the place I want to settle down and sink some roots, or if I'll decided to head somewhere else once I've had enough of the New York life.

i get the vibe that the majority of people posting (especially those talking smack) are not originally new yorkers. sour grapes? i find most other american "cities" a joke. yes, new york has its faults, but it still has much more to offer in terms of history and urban character than most other cities i have gone to visit.

i am interested, to those saying "new york is a great place to visit, but not to live," where would you recommend moving to? Please explain what attributes make this place more desirable to live than ny.

apurimac, you know olmsted designed prospect park too, right?

"get the vibe that the majority of people posting (especially those talking smack) are not originally new yorkers."

Most people who live in NYC are not originally New Yorkers. And every city should be able to take criticism without dismissing it as sour grapes. I think one problem with the city is that it has coasted on its reputation for so long and hasn't (IMO) made the major investments in its infrastructure and people to remain a great city with a decent quality of life. It seems to think saying "Hey, we're NYC!" is enough and it's not.

And lest I get dismissed as a hater, I have been here for a few years and always think about moving away, but then I fear boredom if I move to another city. Which is irrational, since I am perfectly capable of being bored in Manhattan.

As for other cities, I think cities like Austin, Chicago, Denver, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle all have a good quality of life, interesting people, decent art and music-obviously none of them on the scale of NYC, but no city is on the scale of NYC. It's a trade off-less options for gallery openings and cool lectures and the like, but you get to maybe own a house and enjoy healthy blood pressure.

Please explain why you see the rest of America as a "joke?"

History? I'd hardly say NYC has an edge on Boston in terms of history, or for that matter, just about any city along the New England coast.

Urban Character? Yes, NYC has got that but I could name dozens of other American cities with what I'd call good urban character. Perhaps not on the same scale, but still good none the less.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hometown pride, but the NYC arrogance ("other cities are a joke") really turns me off. Oddly enough people from places like Ohio, for example, don't act that way. That's what makes other places more desirable to live.

They are jokes cuz they're funny places!lol

Hometown arrogance certainly isn't limited to NYC.... Just try saying anything mildly critical about Chicago on Archinect, and the Windy City Booster Club will come out of the woodwork to smack you down.

I agree with odb: Any city should be able to take criticism when it deserves it. NYC, like Chicago and LA and every other city, has its good points and bad points, and people should be free to discuss them rationally without being labeled a "hater".

Personally, I think America's most underrated cities are places like Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cincy, Milwaukee, Portland, and Seattle... Medium-sized cities that have a traditional urban core with decent cultural and educational institutions, and that haven't yet priced their creative class out of existence. Many of these cities were written off as Baby Boomers fled to the Sun Belt and suburbs, but I think they're poised to come back in a big way as the younger generation rediscovers what these cities have to offer (and as the cost of gas and energy continues to skyrocket).

i'm just guessing here, but i'd say the median age of the new york lovers is about 26. the median age of the new york haters is 35.

and sorry to pick on you, nicolas, but unless you are a member of the vanderbilt family, statements like:

but you will be among the elite in a way that you wont be in any other city so if you dig that, you gotta be in nyc

just seem a little naive.

If the US wasn't so against letting educated foreigners into the country I'd be in New York in a heart beat (obviously with the security of a job).

London (my current home) is so mediocre. The city doesn't actually plan for the distant future and when something is finally built they realise oh fuck its not suitable now.

Also the city isn't willing to try new things, it's too reserved and preoccupied with looking after artefacts from the past. Even when new ideas are realised/proposed they have to be camouflaged to represent the past or there is a complete public outcry at the cost or some other silly reason.

London is a 9-5 city, while New York is 24 hours, there is always something to do, somewhere to go and somewhere to eat since the city has a higher density. London is so spread out that if you want to go somewhere you have to travel quite a distance and you are limited to using buses after midnight.

Interesting to read that... I've always perceived London as being about a thousand light years ahead of any US city when it comes to infrastructure development (especially public transit) and forward-thinking architecture. Granted, NYC has express subways and 24-hour service, but London seems to have done a better job getting major transit infrastructure projects built in recent years (Jubilee Line extension, ThamesLink, Docklands Light Rail, etc.) Here in NYC, major projects such as the Second Avenue Subway and East Side Access seem to drag on for decades without anything actually happening.

Grass is always greener, indeed....

Oh yes one criticism of the US:

USE ISO MEASUREMENT UNITS!!!

that means using measurements such as mm, cm, m, g, kg, ml, l...

ok ok you can keep Inches for TV/display, clothing and manhood sizes

Hey, you Brits are the ones who gave us Imperial units to begin with.