i would recommend u PRO for 2 key reasons, size of screen/monitor/display and RAM memory, as much RAM as u can get for ur computer the better will perform with architecture related softwares, hard disk is not an issue u can always and preferably want toback up ur data in an external HD
mac is designed to use everything wireless and/or USB

if ur using Autocad (which is the only software from those u listed that doesnt have a mac VERSION) I would include to ur shopping cart (at the mac store) the VMware FUSION software which allows you to use MAC and Windows side in your computer at the same time (other softwares make u restart and change entirely to one side ot the other)

also i would include a nice comfortable wireless mouse.... my personal choice, is the LOGITECH VX Revolution

good luck enjoy architecture school!

Thanks :) I would like to get pro but it'll only be my last choice if only macbook can't work at all with those applications that I mentioned- I need to buy a few original softwares as well like photoshop,microsoft words and windows so all of em will cause me a bomb :( So,do you think macbook can work well with those programmes as well?I know there will be a significant difference but will there be any serious problems if you run those programmes on a macbook?anyway,do rhino and revit have any versions on mac?

anyway, what's the difference between VMware FUSION and Parallels?

btw,should i get an original vista or xp to run the autocad?

unless money is no object, have you considered going with two PC's for what it will cost for a Mac Pro? i've been tempted to try Mac again, but have been advised by Mac friends to go Pro if doing the type of work i'm doing and that's a lot pricier than PC...

seems like you are open to the idea of a non-Mac solution too...while i fully recognize that Macs are amazing machines with an OS that's miles ahead of any version of Windows, i'm also too lazy to deal with all the extra work involved in making dual OS's work on it...plus all the new native Mac software i'd need to buy/source...

i run two PC's with all of the same software plus rhino and a couple of rendering programs...3D Max i stay away from, but many people use it...

benefit is that i carry a small laptop (13.3) for portability day to day (meetings, presentations, etc), and use the larger one (17) for serious work (mostly at work, but still viable to take it out of the office) with the larger screen...

if i were back in school again, i'd probably go with a setup like i have now...regarding which windows? XP to keep the entire system fast, not just for autocad...

plus you get to keep working on one while the other is rendering away...

yeah, I do aware of that fact and as you have notice, I keep my option open,not just to mac (though I'm quite bored with windows as I have been using it ever since I first started using computer,lol!). Right now,I'm considering between macbook and fujitsu with the following spec:

Fujitsu LifeBook E8410U
Intel Centrino Duo Processor Technology
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T9300
(2.5GHZ, 6MB Level 2 Cache, 800MHz FSB);
Intel PM965 Express Chipset;
2 GB DDR2 667 SDRAM (Max. 4GB, Dual Channel; no free slot);
250 GB SATA Hard disk;
Hot Swappable Dual Layer Super Multi (DVD+-RW/CD-RW) Drive;
15.4" WXGA (1280 x 800) TFT;
NVIDIA GeForce 8400M G with up to 374MB;
(total of 128MB Dedicated Graphics Memory and 246MB shared system memory);
PC Card Type II;
ExpressCard /34/54;
USB 2.0 x 4; IEEE 1394;
VGA External Display;
SD/MS/MS Pro card slot;
S-Video Out;
Serial and Parallel Port;
Built-in V.92 modem;
Built-in 10/100/1000 Mbps LAN;
Built-in Intel PRO/Wireless 4965AGN;
Built-in Bluetooth;
Built-in Infrared IrDA 1.14;
Touchpad;
Dual Built-in Stereo Speakers;
Dual Built-in Stereo Microphone;
Built-in 1.3 Mega Pixels Web Camera;
Windows Vista Business;

It has pre-install vista business but I prefer home premium. I read that mirosoft will stop selling xp since june and that the new autocad is built specially for vista (08' or 09', or both, i not sure).

I also had checked with my uni staff that they said that mac can run perfectly well with all the application that I have mentioned at the title.The reason why I choose mac is that most com in my school lab are mac (but I don't think that will really matter), want to try new operating system apart from Microsoft, the idea that mac can run microsoft and OSX,less complaints about mac compare to pc (after making survey over the pc user and mac user) and mac does look very attractive,isn't it? =p btw, will vista runs perfectly in mac? I don't think I need to get parallel or fusion yet until when I really using autocad,so until then,I'll just use bootcamp whenever I need to use windows.

The reason why I keep my option open is that mac is a bit pricey as you are well-aware,the graphic card is a lousy integrated graphic card (but does it matter with the application above except autocad?) and at the price of regular macbook, and I get a laptop that has a spec as good as macbook pro (will there be any differece then between this fujitsu and macbook pro?).

Please do advise me as I have to get a laptop by next week :) thanks!

btw,if you buy an external hard disk that isn't apple,will you have problem conecting it to macbook?

I don't think that would be a problem, as long as it's formatted with the Mac OS X file system. In fact, every Apple Store sells a number of non-Apple external hard drives.

Now, allow me to hijack the thread for a Mac-related question that's been churning in my head for the past few days...

I'll need a new computer for grad school, and I was considering getting a 17" MacBook Pro, possibly with an external monitor and keyboard, etc. That's one option.

Thing is, the base 17" MacBook Pro (2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo) costs exactly the same as the base Mac Pro desktop tower (Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon). For pure processing power for renderings, etc., the 8-core Mac Pro blows the 2-core MacBook Pro out of the water.

Of course I'd still need a monitor for the Mac Pro, but I have a decent Dell monitor now, and can upgrade to an Apple monitor later.

If I decide to go the Mac Pro route, I was thinking of keeping the Mac Pro in the studio (with appropriate security measures), and then getting a bare-bones Macbook laptop for basic stuff like writing papers, web surfing, etc. outside of studio. During break periods, I'd keep the Mac Pro at home.

Would the extra rendering power be worth the cost of an entry-level Macbook, or would the Mac Pro be overkill for school projects? How well does the MacBook Pro deal with typical M.Arch. rendering needs?

hmmm great question Gin, and wish I had the Pro experience doing rendering to assist. But from what you said having a desktop wouldn't really hurt at all, considering that you may leave that in the studio as well. And I should add that I only know one person who actually has an apple monitor with heir desktops most (egad) use Dell.

I know I'm not the right person to answer the question but hope it helps a wee bit

difference between FUSION and PARALLELS

with PARALLELS if u want to use "the dark side of the force (windows)" you have to reboot your computer as also to come back to the MAC side, in other words, you have to reboot in order to use any of the sides...and you can never run both (MAC and WINDOWS) at the same time

with FUSION u dont have to reboot, you can run both OS (operative systems) at the same time, you can even place windows as an icon of your MAC side, and just click in it as any other aplication

Rhino does not have a MAC version... YET, there's a BETA version that was circulating from the rhino website, but it was pretty basic... still seems that it will be a rhino version for MAC before u get to your junior year.

REVIT (no clue)

get a WINDOWS XP for ur MAC, dont get VISTA, please, VISTA is like the worst version of windows ever!!!, if u need windows to run autocad or your "revit" do it from a windows XP

whatever u get...macbook or PRO just try to boost ur RAM as much as u can, forget your MICROSOFT WORD (deliver ur essays by hand) and better invest in a RAM boost, hehehehehe, no but seriously, get RAM

any external HD with a USB cable will work in a MAC

yeah i sometimes understand de fear to try a MAC, but is way more what people speculate than actually the reality, in other words, the adaptation is not that difficult, and you dont regret it, at least in my case, after doing all my school and first years of my profesional life with PCs and lately changing to MAC, the simple fact to try MAC, made me realize there's another complee different way to do architecture, to work of architecture, to see computers as a completelly diff tool, etc., i kind of realized is not about your machine bt about you, the machine is just a tool.... if your machine also inspires you to think different than the pack, then i guess thats where the plus come from.....

but yeah, at the end, get whatever makes you feel more comfortable.... i have an i.mac at the office, and a MACBOOK PRO at home, i did all my school with one PC laptop, right now i will do it again only with one laptop, but this days i will no doubt, get a MAC

bests

LIG-

if you're planning on using a rendering tool like Maxwell, or V-ray--go for the macPro, both of those are optimized for multi-core systems and would benefit more from the octo-core (Maxwell especially). Just double-check the software that you're planning on using--not all programs can harness the power of the multicore systems that are currently available (Revit and ACAD are prime examples).

I used a laptop during my thesis and I regret it (because I could have bought a much better desktop for the same money)--working on a laptop is a pain in the ass even with an external monitor and keyboard. Laptops just aren't built to be pushed as hard (they have a tendency to run hot).

haha,working on a desktop is not an option for me as i'll be studying oversea- far away from home,so portability is important for me :( actually, I love imac more than the laptops =p huh,if you can't use windows and Mac osx side by side,what's the point of getting parallel when you have bootcamp?

I don't mind trying something new,that's why I want to buy mac despite that I have never use it before :)

About Apple.
I think one of the very first questions you have to ask yourself is, are you going to use the OS X if you buy a macbook (pro), or just the Windows side? Some people make this mistake and are not comfortable with OS X in comparison with Windows. Thus they end up paying an extra 1k. Nonetheless, OS X is a very unique, powerful, and fun operating system, I personally love it. And to be honest, if your an Apple Virgin, OS X is very easy to learn ang get use to. For example about using the two operating systems, I do all my photography editing, rendering, surfing on the OS X side, I just use Windows for Microsoft office (actually, can save text files as .doc or .docx on os x!), AutoCAD, and Rhino.

If you are going to consider an Apple for A-school, consider a Macbook Pro. Macbooks are more for mobility and are not as powerful as Macbook pros.

You will need to use windows for some software, like AutoCAD, 3DStudio Max, Rhino (BUT Rhino for OS X is under development).

AutoCAD run perfectly on my windows which is on my macbook pro. As a matter of fact, many people have noticed that Apple run windows better than PC's.

If you decide to get an apple, use BOOTCAMP, do not use Fusion or any other emulator. You only use fusion or any other emulator if your using the two operating systems for light use, like downloading music, typing, and surfing the web, they shouldn't be used if you want to play games or going to have a lot of rendering programs open at once, it will become slow. It does suck that you have to reboot for BOOTCAMP, but its better to have everything run smoothly and efficiently.

If you decide to go Apple, USE A STUDENT DISCOUNT!!! Youll get about 300 dollars off, and a free 8gb ipod or ipod touch AFTER REBATE, hehe. Also, do not upgrade RAM through Apple, its a hundred dollars more expensive. Go to amazing, buy 4GB ram for about 90 dollars instead of 180 dollars. Also, try to get a hardrive with 7200RPM and not at 5400 RPM.

PC's
I personally do not like any laptop other than IBM's.

IBM lenovos - ThinkPads - are powerful and very durable laptops witch will last you just as long as an apple (and apple computers last very long). Many people say, Lenovo is just like an apple, with out the OS X. This statement is somewhat true. Performance aspect - yes. Build quality - no. Don't get me wrong, Lenovos are bult very well, but it is built differently. Apple has a lot of interesting mechanics that you will see if you look at it in the apple website. Lenovos are...well, theyre just simple-business looking lap tops, nothing fun (neglecting the owner identification system it has).

The Lenovo is also, MUCH cheaper than a macbook pro, and it will offer you the same performance or even stronger, at half the price. Downfall, windows is soon to enforce that all selling pc's use Windows Vista, so grab an XP right away, doesnt matter if your going with apple or pc. Unless you like vista..........

i have been using a mac at work for the past month and just cannot get used to the interface. windows makes so much more sense to me - i'm not sure if it's just better, or if it's because i grew up on it.

but you might need a mac to be cool at school. at my school, 80% of undergrads have macs.

I use ACAD 7 under Parrallels on my macbook pro 2gb without problems except that I can't seem to make the pan fuction of the scroll wheel work. The machine also does reasonably speedy renders with form Z (mac). From my perspective the advantage of the pro vs. the plain _book was the faster graphics card, which can run a large attached monitor at the same time as the laptop screen.

Parallels 3.0 does not require reboot to switch back and forth with Mac OS -- I can run Photoshop on the Mac side with Parrallels/Windows XP/ACAD at the same time; Parrallels creates a "C" drive on the Mac desktop so files saved out of the PC apps can be opened by the Mac apps. A second monitor is nice for this -- PC on one monitor, Mac on the other. The install/set up of Parallels was fairly simple.

Despite my Mac preference, from where I sit in the profession, Macs are a distinct minority, which may argue in favor the PC route.

you guys' advice have been a great help :) Actually, I prefer Imac over those laptops but too bad, I need a portable laptop so that I can bring it around my campus :( I never trust lenovo pc before but that because I haven't really know it as no one around me has used it before, but I guess I should keep my eyes out for that. However, do you think macbook pro is a durable laptop? I'm hoping to use macbook pro (if I'm getting a pro) until i got my first degree before I consider switching to a new laptop again. I got an interesting offer for a macbook pro through my girl friend's university which comes along with software like adobe CS3 web premium and microsoft office for mac along with 3 years warranty and a laptop sling bag - cost about 1.5k USD,I think...

When you use windons and mac OSX side by side,don't your computer become extremely slow? is 2GB of RAM sufficient for such usage? I don't mind to completely switching over to Mac OSX as I only need windows for those designing programmes like autocad and also for light gaming purposes. I gladly switch over to MAC OSX as I'm bored with windows,especially windows xp.. lol =p

I'm now looking to upgrade, and was thinking about macbook, but jeez they can cost up to 3,000. That's ridiculous considering you can get a pc with the same amount or more ram for 2,000 cheaper. Does anyone use a sony? I've been seriously considering sony. They look good and seem to have good reviews.

8 months after my previous post, i am now a happy Macbook owner...both my PC's died within two months of each other (they were 2 and 3 years old, longest i've ever kept any laptops) and i went looking for 2 new PC's, but honestly couldn't find anything in terms of hardware that was remotely close in build quality to the new unibody Macs - seems as though everyone's competing on the basis of who has the glossiest or coolest looking swirly patterned finish...and the new MacBook is priced very competitively for what it offers now, especially the listed price in Canada - $1299 CAD..so now i run a single 13" machine, hooking up to an external monitor when needed...

boot camp was painless, OS X has some irritating eccentricities for ex-PC users (still haven't figured out how to handle graphics out of Preview and Automator for simple tasks such as rotating the thumbnail and batch handling) but otherwise very pleased...

still running most software on the PC side, and getting used to the Mac side...but would buy the MacBook again for build quality and value, even if running Windows only...also, any PC with the higher end specs i wanted simply was not available without 3-4 weeks lead time for a build-to-order from HP or Toshiba...

even considered Dell XPS M1330, but a little research showed the motherboards on them are burning out like candles and they won't recall them...they'll fix them, but won't recall the things...and a look at the inside of it on some "how-to" guides to mod the thing for a permanent fix showed how brutally designed the machines are internally...it's like a neanderthal took a soldering iron and melted pieces of scrap metal together compared to the inside of my MacBook...

shopped Sony as well, but i've never been able to justify the premium, plus they used to only have memory stick slots and not the universal slots that others had, this has changed, but i just never saw them as being so much better...check out the Z series...high-end machine featured in the James Bond movie, has a hybrid GPU set-up, but reviews say it's more flash than substance...and that machine in real life seems very lightweight and flimsy compared to the aluminum unibody...it may be that its a carbon fiber chassis, but just doesn't seem solid...of course, for real work, you'd want something more mainstream in the Sony line-up...as i said, no PC product from any maker impressed me to the point that i would buy it...and i've been a Toshiba buyer the last 3 machines...they all seemed like creaky, plasticky, shiny toys next to the unibody Macs...

count me as a happy Mac owner who has the best of both worlds now...as for the price of the 15" or 17" Pros, you're absolutely right...that's a whole other thing...

have you had any problems with your hard drive as far as filling it? i would hope 250gb would be enough for about 5 heavy arch. design programs. i was also told that its a good idea even to get a cheap mac and get an external hdd. i found a. hp with a 3ghz processor, 500 mb hdd, and 9600 graphics card for 1300, but the dude told me the 160 gb mac is better. hard to understand why though, other than construction quiality? i guess there's a reason my school only approves mac laptops.

no problems with capacity so far, but then i don't do high, high-end rendering and modelling...i work in a blob-free environment...

i've got 4 or 5 external drives now which i use for back-up ranging from 60GB to 320GB and find that's enough...architectural models themselves don't fill them up that quickly, it's the videos that do if you do animation...

my previous machine was 80GB i think and it wasn't filled either until i started ripping DVD's...in a good way, it also forces you to be a bit more disciplined about filiing things away and not just having multiple copies and versions of everything...ideally...

be aware that HDD's formatted as NTSF won't be able to be written to from a Mac...that's something i found out recently...i can access all my archives, but can not write back to the same drive...so i have a new drive formatted for mac and do backups on that...

the only thing i sacrificed in getting the macbook is the discrete graphics, a dedicated GPU (graphics chip/card) that helps with real-time 3D such as gaming and model manipulation (as far as i understand...there's a lot written up elsewhere on this site about this from people much more knowledgeable, so do a search) but not with rendering...your spec for the HP has a graphics card which would be an upgrade on the macbook for that...Pros do have a separate GPU in addition to the integrated one...rendering speed comes from having the fastest processor...

my new teaching position wanted to get me a 17" pro but i am opting for the upgraded 13" with a screen as i have my dell precision -and cant bear the thought of carrying a big thing [really like the light book but only one usb]

any thoughts on the 13" - can i run rhino, gc, etc, etc etc?

no problems for me, but like i said, i don't model/render huge cutting edge forms with ridiculous numbers of faces...i run autocad, CS3, sketchup, podium and rhino...podium renders that used to take 30-40 minutes are now taking 5-10 instead...rhino models can be manipulated no problem...all of this except sketchup with podium is under windows in boot camp...

other than that, it's just personal preference for screen size, whether its enough real estate to look at...

also the 13" unibody mac is very slim compared to 13" PC's, but heavy for it's size though...