Ive defended acad for years. It was and is still is (barely) the best 2d drafting program out there. And for building 3d for export it still rocks. But what the hell have they done to the code to make it so glitchy? I mean every comand its pausing - Im running a 5 day old computer - Dual core w 4 gigs of ram. theres no f*cking excuse for this. ACAD has successfully turned itself into the crappy drafting programs like archicad with their pauses and stalls. Why? What is going in the program to cause this? It still is supposed to do the same dam thing its always done - draw lines, and shapes, extrude them if you like, set up sheets.
If I didnt know any better Id say autodesk is trying to agrevate people into BIM software by killing the freeflow of 2d drafting.
I haven't had any problems with my aca 09 at all, although I have read of people with your same problems. check out augi.com, maybe it could shed some light on the issues.
it'll probably be fixed in service pack 1
It's because everyone wanted BIM tools in Autocad like live sections, automatic scheduling tools, tagging, parametric blocks, mental ray and 3d modeling tools like sketchtup. No wonder autocad is now bloated up........ Stop requesting those damn tools.
Autocad should have stayed a dumb 2d program. If you want parametrics, get Revit.
i've found it quite buggy and won't be upgrading the rest of the office.
hatch island detection is actually worse than 2008 and if you happen to accidentally select an object it creates multiple warning messages and cancels the operation
tooltips are ridiculous (i've had to turn them off entirely)
the "ribbon"…
I had a running list but I've lost it and since I've been using only Revit for the last few months I can't remember my other issues with 2009
there's too much fluff--bring back DOS (imagine how fast our software/machines would run if there wasn't the overhead of the GUI OS??!!?)
slow is a new interface feature right?
i suspect like them selfs to you they are just trying to make you more money by slowing you down, guessing you are hourly.
the best Hatch Command is in Rhinoceros , boundary try it? auto command completing. zooms based on where the cursor is. these are just 3 reasons autocad lags, for a long time, they just put forth no effort and expect windfall profits with the most draconian license scheme that just got nixed in court.
DONT GET ME WRONG - ITS AWESOMELY POWERFUL SOFTWARE WITH A CRITICAL PAUSING ISSUE. THAT SEEMINGLY LITTLE PAUSE CAN BE MIND NUMBLY DISRUPTIVE OVER THE DAY WHILE DRAFTING
Im embarking simultaneously into the world of Revit - which is ungodly complicated to be teaching yourself.
We still make money on the older acad versions because its well known and adopted and everybody is fast on it. 2009 weve decided to pass on - wait till 2010 hope they fix the bugs. Keep drafting on 2006 and 2008.
Impliment Revit for large project in 2009 as test- seems too cumbersome for small renevotion projects. So far, and Im a novice here, but Revit seems made for simple large repetative buildings like office towers and hotels. Theres linework in a renovation thats just impossible to recreate in Revit - its the art of comunicating whats happening in messy situation.
I dont know - sometimes i think the pencil is all you need. i worked briefly in the office of a lady who drew only with #2 pencils and achieved every lineweight imangineable - beautiful drawings, loaded with layers of info artisticly presented - the carpenters, plumbers everybody loved her drawings - they were so full of info, 1 or 2 sheet jobs for an entire house with all trades together in one place. Lost art.
i draw by hand but work with a team who use revit.
i'm working on a project now that i don't think would have been nearly as successful without BOTH of these - and which i couldn't imagine doing in autocad.
Autodesk called me and ask me if I wanted to upgrade to 2--9....I said I wasn't interested cause I had heard people hated it...then I went on to tell her that the President of Autodesk was a fricking moron cause she always pushes the latest version out the door way to early filled with glitches. Who the Hell but architects woul put up with this? Can you imagine Citibank having programs brought to the market early, just because... Screw Autodesk....may Bim Masters take them to task. We need people who care about what we do not those who care about national position. I can only imagine the advice
she puts forth to President Bush.....Ya Like Grab Your Balls cause were in for a Ride......Architects are always the first in when ther is an economic downturn.s
check out: designReform. Mr. Fano has a bunch of Revit tutorials that are very helpful.
What I've learned about Revit is that it is much more "front loaded" than ACAD, but it can do things (with families especially) that ACAD's blocks just can't do--I've been doing an as-built of a convention center where every roof truss is different and can't imagine trying to draft/model each of them in ACAD (yes, antisthenes, Rhino could do these via scripting but it just doesn't have the documentation tools that Revit does, plus I challenged myself to not use Rhino)
hmmm how did you challenge yourself not to? you mean because it is so useful and 2nd nature to you coming from autocad and works so well with importing hard to create geometry into revit?
why is it that the $5000 software is missing 1/3 of its tutorials files? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's amazing to see how everyone gets so defensive when a comment is made about rhino. I'm quite curious to see some images of real construction documents, schedules, detailing, etc. all done in Rhino.
I'm a bona fide Rhino fanboy, but even I'm getting a bit put-off by your constant "Rhino will save the world" vibe (yes, that's a bit of hyperbole--you've never said it would save the world)…Rhino is good, but it's not the end all; be all solution. That being said, I can't wait for the OSX version to be production-ready…
In the past when I was working on Revit projects I would get so frustrated trying to model in Revit that I would resort to modeling in Rhino and then import--for this project I restricted myself to only use Revit and forced myself to learn Revit's ways. Each has different strengths--Rhino is good at modeling and so-so at documentation; Revit is good at documentation and so-so at modeling…
Don't get me wrong...if you are a student, then yes, i can imagine why Rhino is an end all for you as schools don't require proper set of floor plans, sections, elevations as they used to. But in the real world where you are commissioned to build an awfully looking strip mall and at the same token need to put bread on the table, I'm not sure if nurbs will get you that far.
please, i create proper floor plans, foundations, sections, elevations, roofplans , framing plans all day in Rhino NP, as well as renderings animations and color elevations and all in 1 environment (minus a pixel pusher). and i find that some of the ways i do it that differ have far greater strengths, because they are user inspired from a company the workers who make own.
it has nothing to do with NURBS. autocad does nurbs too as do most programs. it is the math behind your programs ability to do accurate cad and math of the geometry.
if i work at one of the largest corporations, 42,000+, in the world and they support my use and see benefit to own it, the only barrier is ignorance
"Each has different strengths--Rhino is good at modeling and so-so at documentation; Revit is good at documentation and so-so at modeling…"
I agree completely with you rehiggins.
I'm just finishing up school, and working in a rather typical large firm with some standard mundane projects like most firms I guess.
I use rhino in school, because yes, school is not the real world, and isn't as restricting in formal issues. At least I get accuracy. I am rather new to rhino though, so the documentation I'm not sure about yet...so I just bring in into Revit and bang out a better set than most with ease....(I also don't like the revit modelling...unless for a mundane bldg)
I don't see why this kind of fluidiity can't continue into the firm.
The firm bought me a version of rhino, but I'm still trying to convince them on Revit.
Revit modeling is a bit cranky--you have to think differently. It's a bit more like old-school solid modeling in ACAD--you not only have to think in form (solid shapes), but also the boolean (void shapes). It's almost the complete opposite of Rhino.
My ideal program would be a fusion of Revit, Rhino, and maxwell…but hopefully Autodesk will never acquire either company and they'll both stay independent.
Antisthenes: do you have any tutorials (or good links to tutorials) on Rhino's documentation tools? I've read the manual and followed the steps, but things never seem to work out properly.
I would imagine rhino would have to be decent at documenting projects, because it is used in the ID world no? They make plans, sections, and details too.
no, we are not comparing anything to Revit here. we are talking about the obsolescence of autocad, i think. maybe everything that does it the old way is obsolete, but at least it is compatible and you have a choice.
Jun 12, 08 3:57 pm ·
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Whats wrong with ACAD 2009?
Ive defended acad for years. It was and is still is (barely) the best 2d drafting program out there. And for building 3d for export it still rocks. But what the hell have they done to the code to make it so glitchy? I mean every comand its pausing - Im running a 5 day old computer - Dual core w 4 gigs of ram. theres no f*cking excuse for this. ACAD has successfully turned itself into the crappy drafting programs like archicad with their pauses and stalls. Why? What is going in the program to cause this? It still is supposed to do the same dam thing its always done - draw lines, and shapes, extrude them if you like, set up sheets.
If I didnt know any better Id say autodesk is trying to agrevate people into BIM software by killing the freeflow of 2d drafting.
I noticed that as well with autocad architecture 2009
its total crap.....
Second everything you say......
what the hell is going on
I haven't had any problems with my aca 09 at all, although I have read of people with your same problems. check out augi.com, maybe it could shed some light on the issues.
it'll probably be fixed in service pack 1
It's because everyone wanted BIM tools in Autocad like live sections, automatic scheduling tools, tagging, parametric blocks, mental ray and 3d modeling tools like sketchtup. No wonder autocad is now bloated up........ Stop requesting those damn tools.
Autocad should have stayed a dumb 2d program. If you want parametrics, get Revit.
Despite going all vectorworksy with the startup interface, ive had no issues w/ ACAD ARCH '09 as of yet.
Apurimac -
Your acad doesnt pause for 2 or 3 seconds every few comands?
Oh, but the scaled templates opening as a default really piss me off.
Why on god's earth would ACAD wanna be like vectorworks?
i've found it quite buggy and won't be upgrading the rest of the office.
hatch island detection is actually worse than 2008 and if you happen to accidentally select an object it creates multiple warning messages and cancels the operation
tooltips are ridiculous (i've had to turn them off entirely)
the "ribbon"…
I had a running list but I've lost it and since I've been using only Revit for the last few months I can't remember my other issues with 2009
there's too much fluff--bring back DOS (imagine how fast our software/machines would run if there wasn't the overhead of the GUI OS??!!?)
hahahahaha
slow is a new interface feature right?
i suspect like them selfs to you they are just trying to make you more money by slowing you down, guessing you are hourly.
the best Hatch Command is in Rhinoceros , boundary try it? auto command completing. zooms based on where the cursor is. these are just 3 reasons autocad lags, for a long time, they just put forth no effort and expect windfall profits with the most draconian license scheme that just got nixed in court.
They need to stop for a few years, work on what they have and let users catch up.
Fuck DOS, gimme UNIX or a Linux kernel and I'll show you a speedy OS.
What's RIGHT with AutoCAD 2009 ;p
let users catch up?? HAH more like they need to catch up or put a nail in the coffin
DONT GET ME WRONG - ITS AWESOMELY POWERFUL SOFTWARE WITH A CRITICAL PAUSING ISSUE. THAT SEEMINGLY LITTLE PAUSE CAN BE MIND NUMBLY DISRUPTIVE OVER THE DAY WHILE DRAFTING
Ok kids, its official.
I now hate ACAD 09.
how do you fell about the capable alternatives?
Im embarking simultaneously into the world of Revit - which is ungodly complicated to be teaching yourself.
We still make money on the older acad versions because its well known and adopted and everybody is fast on it. 2009 weve decided to pass on - wait till 2010 hope they fix the bugs. Keep drafting on 2006 and 2008.
Impliment Revit for large project in 2009 as test- seems too cumbersome for small renevotion projects. So far, and Im a novice here, but Revit seems made for simple large repetative buildings like office towers and hotels. Theres linework in a renovation thats just impossible to recreate in Revit - its the art of comunicating whats happening in messy situation.
I dont know - sometimes i think the pencil is all you need. i worked briefly in the office of a lady who drew only with #2 pencils and achieved every lineweight imangineable - beautiful drawings, loaded with layers of info artisticly presented - the carpenters, plumbers everybody loved her drawings - they were so full of info, 1 or 2 sheet jobs for an entire house with all trades together in one place. Lost art.
i draw by hand but work with a team who use revit.
i'm working on a project now that i don't think would have been nearly as successful without BOTH of these - and which i couldn't imagine doing in autocad.
Autodesk called me and ask me if I wanted to upgrade to 2--9....I said I wasn't interested cause I had heard people hated it...then I went on to tell her that the President of Autodesk was a fricking moron cause she always pushes the latest version out the door way to early filled with glitches. Who the Hell but architects woul put up with this? Can you imagine Citibank having programs brought to the market early, just because... Screw Autodesk....may Bim Masters take them to task. We need people who care about what we do not those who care about national position. I can only imagine the advice
she puts forth to President Bush.....Ya Like Grab Your Balls cause were in for a Ride......Architects are always the first in when ther is an economic downturn.s
EP--
check out: designReform. Mr. Fano has a bunch of Revit tutorials that are very helpful.
What I've learned about Revit is that it is much more "front loaded" than ACAD, but it can do things (with families especially) that ACAD's blocks just can't do--I've been doing an as-built of a convention center where every roof truss is different and can't imagine trying to draft/model each of them in ACAD (yes, antisthenes, Rhino could do these via scripting but it just doesn't have the documentation tools that Revit does, plus I challenged myself to not use Rhino)
hahaha snook_dude
grrrr Carol Bartz autodesk CEO, science adviser to Bush hahahaha
that explains a little i guess
rehiggins, que?
hmmm how did you challenge yourself not to? you mean because it is so useful and 2nd nature to you coming from autocad and works so well with importing hard to create geometry into revit?
why is it that the $5000 software is missing 1/3 of its tutorials files? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's amazing to see how everyone gets so defensive when a comment is made about rhino. I'm quite curious to see some images of real construction documents, schedules, detailing, etc. all done in Rhino.
Antisthenes--
I'm a bona fide Rhino fanboy, but even I'm getting a bit put-off by your constant "Rhino will save the world" vibe (yes, that's a bit of hyperbole--you've never said it would save the world)…Rhino is good, but it's not the end all; be all solution. That being said, I can't wait for the OSX version to be production-ready…
In the past when I was working on Revit projects I would get so frustrated trying to model in Revit that I would resort to modeling in Rhino and then import--for this project I restricted myself to only use Revit and forced myself to learn Revit's ways. Each has different strengths--Rhino is good at modeling and so-so at documentation; Revit is good at documentation and so-so at modeling…
yes everything has it's strengths. i get the hint, carry on.
Don't get me wrong...if you are a student, then yes, i can imagine why Rhino is an end all for you as schools don't require proper set of floor plans, sections, elevations as they used to. But in the real world where you are commissioned to build an awfully looking strip mall and at the same token need to put bread on the table, I'm not sure if nurbs will get you that far.
please, i create proper floor plans, foundations, sections, elevations, roofplans , framing plans all day in Rhino NP, as well as renderings animations and color elevations and all in 1 environment (minus a pixel pusher). and i find that some of the ways i do it that differ have far greater strengths, because they are user inspired from a company the workers who make own.
it has nothing to do with NURBS. autocad does nurbs too as do most programs. it is the math behind your programs ability to do accurate cad and math of the geometry.
if i work at one of the largest corporations, 42,000+, in the world and they support my use and see benefit to own it, the only barrier is ignorance
"Each has different strengths--Rhino is good at modeling and so-so at documentation; Revit is good at documentation and so-so at modeling…"
I agree completely with you rehiggins.
I'm just finishing up school, and working in a rather typical large firm with some standard mundane projects like most firms I guess.
I use rhino in school, because yes, school is not the real world, and isn't as restricting in formal issues. At least I get accuracy. I am rather new to rhino though, so the documentation I'm not sure about yet...so I just bring in into Revit and bang out a better set than most with ease....(I also don't like the revit modelling...unless for a mundane bldg)
I don't see why this kind of fluidiity can't continue into the firm.
The firm bought me a version of rhino, but I'm still trying to convince them on Revit.
What do you model in rhino and then bring into Revit? doors, walls, parapets, windows or just the massing??
Revit modeling is a bit cranky--you have to think differently. It's a bit more like old-school solid modeling in ACAD--you not only have to think in form (solid shapes), but also the boolean (void shapes). It's almost the complete opposite of Rhino.
My ideal program would be a fusion of Revit, Rhino, and maxwell…but hopefully Autodesk will never acquire either company and they'll both stay independent.
Antisthenes: do you have any tutorials (or good links to tutorials) on Rhino's documentation tools? I've read the manual and followed the steps, but things never seem to work out properly.
I would imagine rhino would have to be decent at documenting projects, because it is used in the ID world no? They make plans, sections, and details too.
you mean the annotation and dimensioning? i think it is the same as autocad or intellicad. the styles are all compatible
i don't think you can compare a documentation set of lamp, door numb or a train cart for that matter to a million sq f health care projects.
Anyway, can you have members of the team working simultaneously on one Rhino model?
no, we are not comparing anything to Revit here. we are talking about the obsolescence of autocad, i think. maybe everything that does it the old way is obsolete, but at least it is compatible and you have a choice.
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