We have more people in prisons than Russia or China. Watch the video or input on your stance or views on both the private prison industry itself, as well as, the greater influence of capitalism into fields such as health, detention/incarceration, and education.
My personal belief is that some things need to be valued in ways other than purely quantitative. The hyper privatization of all things necessary for a community to function seems to me to rob the community itself of its own wellbeing. Instead, leaving it as only consumer and worker where value is extorted.
What really got me was the fact that these corporations are influencing law to a much greater extent than any individual is...anyway, I thought it was a great piece and brings up a big issue in regards to our core infrastructure in this country and other and its success or failure.
you are forgetting the part about the companies influencing the harsher punishments...it is not merely about breaking laws...you simplify something that is complex to avoid it...it is about setting up a system to keep people in jail longer so as to keep making more money off of them...watch it...or dismiss willingly without any care.
According to some guy I heard on NPR the other day one of the main reasons that we have so many people in prison is due to the fact that we have so many elected judges whereas in most other places all judges are appointed.
I agree - drug laws are fucked up and slanted. But laws the law - get them changed if your so pasionate. i for one would love it if half my architect competition was stoned all the time.
did anyone see mccain's pandering to the ultra-conservative base last week? of not sending activist" (read: not consevative) judges to the supreme court? by sending people like rehnquist, scalito and roberts (3 of the 4 most conservative judges since wwII)? because, the current court isn't unblanced or anything. it is our constitutional duty to appoint bigots and racist hacks to the highest court, right?
Well you obviously have not watched it...one of the main points is the amount of lobbying from the Prison industry to make sentencing longer and to fight any bill which will lessen what is called or crime or lessen the sentence of a crime. So, you are ok with companies lobbying to keep people in prison longer and stopping legislation that is either attempting to decriminalize or lessen sentencing so that they can profit from people being imprisoned.
Not to mention, now profiting from illegal immigrant detention including children...the point is companies are making a profit and are fighting to find ways to get and keep more people in jail because it makes them money. Profits over morality...one 1 every 100 in jail and people being sent from state to state to fill private corporations cells for profit...pitiful.
I saw it and I was like what non-conservative judges are left at this point? If McCain gets in he better be careful - rich republicans don't really want abortion to be made illegal. They need it for their mistresses and teenage daughters. They also wouldn't have anything left to get their wacko base all riled up about.
there is a really good documentary on this it all started with Rockafella and Commo in NY max mins they took advantage of the housing act that Johsnson put in place after MLK's death and used to to create this prison industrial complex, life sentences for any quantity of drug at that time.
Sheriff Joes is not sending the illegal immigrants back now i hear he runs a chain gang and tent city, it is true they make more money off you being in prison than if you were to make min. wage.
jobs for judges layers cops guards builders, you get the drift.
so if there are 3x as many people living today as there were during WWII, and bush has the lowest approval ratings of any president ever, does that mean more people dislike bush than disliked hitler?
Stay on topic please...I would love to hear others input on the privatization of our core infrastructure and its affects using the privatization of the prison system as an example...watch the video linked to at the beginning of the thread.
like all privatized things, they are run with the idea that a for profit model is better.
in all cases i have seen it provides less quality of service, an illusion, and takes power away from the collective body of people who used to own it and had more say before their government sold it off.
as far as corruption it would be as is bad in both situations but the privatized model is rigged more towards this as the welfare of society is put in the back seat to a corporations bottom line profits. see: iraq also see the publicization that is going on in South America where the population is reclaiming their industries for the good of the people not the corporation.
That's why I noted "with all due respect," and it wasn't a criticism of you or your thread, just an observation on the inability of most threads here to avoid hijacking.
Jasson I have watched it and I really dont care. America produces such slimey scummy dangerous people in part do to the liberal agenda of social rengineering of the 1960's. Why dont we put the blame on the drugs that cook the minds of these assholes. Oh yaeh thats why theyre in prison. See a connection? You cant take a social outcast introduce them to drugs and not expect these results. i have an uncle whos was a pcp freak and stabbed my grandpa - guess what - fuck him he should rot in jail. Guy I went to highschool with - got hooked on H. In prison over and over. hes so fried he's unsalvageable. We should just shoot him at this point - out his misery.
If you want to go back to the old ways send a letter to your congressperson.
Factor27 has done work for the state by the way..and public universities, many good companies too...have also turned down well paying work for projects that we disagreed with...thanks.
The statement is specific to the growth of for profit in areas where there had not been a for profit stance...it is all above but you seen more bent on sniping.
Honestly, Jason, I was responding more to your title than the post --two related but different topics.
I'll take your word on the documentary, since I'm at work and cannot watch a TV show here. I'll gladly stipulate big problems with the ways that corruption poisons public policy, allowing some capitalists to ride roughshod over the public interest with seeming impunity. No disagreement there. None.
But corruption poisons non-capitalist systems, too, where state officials have also tromped all over the interests of regular folk, by the millions, in much the same way as private sector villains.
So, in my mind, the "infection" is human greed and corruption, regardless of the political-economic system in which it operates.
The difference is that the state then has to deal with the issue since it is not profiting off of the people in jail. Historically the city or county or state would have to re-evaluate laws due to overcrowding or go to the public for more funding. So, the public was involved with defining what level of incarceration they are comfortable with.
Now, all that is out the window and profit is king. People are working in jail for a pittance of minimum wage for a company making a double profit by being paid to both house and deliver labor. This is wrong in my book. One should do their time but there is not the right to exploit for profit and to manipulate the penal system for purely monetary reasons...there is no comparing the two in this regard.
When you get home watch the piece, it is very good. It also touches on the new trend which is detainment, even of children. There will continue to be more prisons ran by private companies who will find anyway possible to fill cells so as to grow profits, that is not only wrong, it is extremely scary. Robocop, etc. here we come...large scale private industry as police is next I would assume.
If the work they did helped us as a society, I am for it...like working on roads...not making a corporation money that in turn uses its profits to ensure more laws are made to keep people in jail for longer.
What is funny is way back when it was republicans such as Eisenhower who were weary of the Military Industrial Complex and the issues it would create, just like the Prison Industrial Complex...I guess the Repubs have just sold out all together now.
And EP, so you would have Rush imprisoned for life huh? Oxycontin and all...damn druggie...no rehabilitation...NONE...let them rot...right?
i just finished watching the episode.
when i was in texas i learned of these type of prisons...and while never having specifics, i assumed it was handled like many of the state run things that are privatized...
no suprises here. two things i wish there would have been more of...
more of the legislators talking about why they SUPPORT it. it was kind of a one sided piece. just CEOs and media reps from the other side.
the heart of why this is not an issue...we as a society don't want to know. they are bad and we are good. put'em away...where ever that is.
we don't know if a prison is about REFORM or PUNISHMENT...
and until we decide what a prison is for it will always be on both sides and in most cases doing neither!
NOW - Private prisons and the infection of capitalism
If you have not seen the last NOW report on the Private Prison Industry, I suggest you watch it.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/419/video.html
We have more people in prisons than Russia or China. Watch the video or input on your stance or views on both the private prison industry itself, as well as, the greater influence of capitalism into fields such as health, detention/incarceration, and education.
My personal belief is that some things need to be valued in ways other than purely quantitative. The hyper privatization of all things necessary for a community to function seems to me to rob the community itself of its own wellbeing. Instead, leaving it as only consumer and worker where value is extorted.
What really got me was the fact that these corporations are influencing law to a much greater extent than any individual is...anyway, I thought it was a great piece and brings up a big issue in regards to our core infrastructure in this country and other and its success or failure.
Maybe we are better at catching them
jason - arguements like yours and the pbs doc always always leave out the critical fact that the person in prison knowingly broke the law
Maybe the laws are flwed but their is the courts to decide that in a system of checks and balances
watch it and then comment.
you are forgetting the part about the companies influencing the harsher punishments...it is not merely about breaking laws...you simplify something that is complex to avoid it...it is about setting up a system to keep people in jail longer so as to keep making more money off of them...watch it...or dismiss willingly without any care.
and how many of those are drug related?
yeah... greatest country in the world (that is looking more and more like mid 20th C. russia daily)
it all comes down to prosecution of non violent small drugs crimes.
and debt
According to some guy I heard on NPR the other day one of the main reasons that we have so many people in prison is due to the fact that we have so many elected judges whereas in most other places all judges are appointed.
I agree - drug laws are fucked up and slanted. But laws the law - get them changed if your so pasionate. i for one would love it if half my architect competition was stoned all the time.
did anyone see mccain's pandering to the ultra-conservative base last week? of not sending activist" (read: not consevative) judges to the supreme court? by sending people like rehnquist, scalito and roberts (3 of the 4 most conservative judges since wwII)? because, the current court isn't unblanced or anything. it is our constitutional duty to appoint bigots and racist hacks to the highest court, right?
"get them changed if your so pasionate."
Well you obviously have not watched it...one of the main points is the amount of lobbying from the Prison industry to make sentencing longer and to fight any bill which will lessen what is called or crime or lessen the sentence of a crime. So, you are ok with companies lobbying to keep people in prison longer and stopping legislation that is either attempting to decriminalize or lessen sentencing so that they can profit from people being imprisoned.
Not to mention, now profiting from illegal immigrant detention including children...the point is companies are making a profit and are fighting to find ways to get and keep more people in jail because it makes them money. Profits over morality...one 1 every 100 in jail and people being sent from state to state to fill private corporations cells for profit...pitiful.
I saw it and I was like what non-conservative judges are left at this point? If McCain gets in he better be careful - rich republicans don't really want abortion to be made illegal. They need it for their mistresses and teenage daughters. They also wouldn't have anything left to get their wacko base all riled up about.
watch out for the prison pop.
there is a really good documentary on this it all started with Rockafella and Commo in NY max mins they took advantage of the housing act that Johsnson put in place after MLK's death and used to to create this prison industrial complex, life sentences for any quantity of drug at that time.
Sheriff Joes is not sending the illegal immigrants back now i hear he runs a chain gang and tent city, it is true they make more money off you being in prison than if you were to make min. wage.
jobs for judges layers cops guards builders, you get the drift.
so if there are 3x as many people living today as there were during WWII, and bush has the lowest approval ratings of any president ever, does that mean more people dislike bush than disliked hitler?
um i think hilter was very popular among his own people bush never was.
if bush was anything even close to hitler there would be colonies in iraq and american people would be proud to be stealing oil, he's not
Stay on topic please...I would love to hear others input on the privatization of our core infrastructure and its affects using the privatization of the prison system as an example...watch the video linked to at the beginning of the thread.
like all privatized things, they are run with the idea that a for profit model is better.
in all cases i have seen it provides less quality of service, an illusion, and takes power away from the collective body of people who used to own it and had more say before their government sold it off.
as far as corruption it would be as is bad in both situations but the privatized model is rigged more towards this as the welfare of society is put in the back seat to a corporations bottom line profits. see: iraq also see the publicization that is going on in South America where the population is reclaiming their industries for the good of the people not the corporation.
holz.box: it is our constitutional duty to appoint bigots and racist hacks to the highest court, right?
wait, how are rehnquist, scalito and roberts 'bigots and racists'? what judgements have they made that support bigotry and racism?
"Stay on topic please..."
With all due respect, have you even read any Archinect discussion threads before?
Jason Cross
Total Entries: 2
Total Comments: 1797
I guess a few more than you. A person has the right to try.
So, do you have something to add?........waiting.
That's why I noted "with all due respect," and it wasn't a criticism of you or your thread, just an observation on the inability of most threads here to avoid hijacking.
It wasn't a personal attack.
got to love this place. everywhere else 75% of us would be banned.
Merely answering your sarcasm.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/419/video.html
And, on topic, "infection of capitalism" is a mighty loaded term.
Does this indicate an opposition to it? If the infection were cleared up, who would be patronizing the services of Factor27? The state?
this is VERY On Topic
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199812/prisons
Jasson I have watched it and I really dont care. America produces such slimey scummy dangerous people in part do to the liberal agenda of social rengineering of the 1960's. Why dont we put the blame on the drugs that cook the minds of these assholes. Oh yaeh thats why theyre in prison. See a connection? You cant take a social outcast introduce them to drugs and not expect these results. i have an uncle whos was a pcp freak and stabbed my grandpa - guess what - fuck him he should rot in jail. Guy I went to highschool with - got hooked on H. In prison over and over. hes so fried he's unsalvageable. We should just shoot him at this point - out his misery.
If you want to go back to the old ways send a letter to your congressperson.
Kill everyone for DUI's...I am with you...drugs are drugs...Laws are Laws...lets get to 1 in 10...YES WE CAN!!!!
citizen, have you watched the NOW episode...if not, do...then you may have a bit of a clue.
Factor27 has done work for the state by the way..and public universities, many good companies too...have also turned down well paying work for projects that we disagreed with...thanks.
The statement is specific to the growth of for profit in areas where there had not been a for profit stance...it is all above but you seen more bent on sniping.
evil i think you are on drugs
puddles is on vodka...and will be driving home tonight
some drugs are pretty much death sentences, H, meth, and pcp come to mind.
ep how did a liberal agenda of social engineering produce a society of oversaturated with “slimy” people?
watch the PBS special
wait, didn't you not watch it?
Honestly, Jason, I was responding more to your title than the post --two related but different topics.
I'll take your word on the documentary, since I'm at work and cannot watch a TV show here. I'll gladly stipulate big problems with the ways that corruption poisons public policy, allowing some capitalists to ride roughshod over the public interest with seeming impunity. No disagreement there. None.
But corruption poisons non-capitalist systems, too, where state officials have also tromped all over the interests of regular folk, by the millions, in much the same way as private sector villains.
So, in my mind, the "infection" is human greed and corruption, regardless of the political-economic system in which it operates.
The difference is that the state then has to deal with the issue since it is not profiting off of the people in jail. Historically the city or county or state would have to re-evaluate laws due to overcrowding or go to the public for more funding. So, the public was involved with defining what level of incarceration they are comfortable with.
Now, all that is out the window and profit is king. People are working in jail for a pittance of minimum wage for a company making a double profit by being paid to both house and deliver labor. This is wrong in my book. One should do their time but there is not the right to exploit for profit and to manipulate the penal system for purely monetary reasons...there is no comparing the two in this regard.
When you get home watch the piece, it is very good. It also touches on the new trend which is detainment, even of children. There will continue to be more prisons ran by private companies who will find anyway possible to fill cells so as to grow profits, that is not only wrong, it is extremely scary. Robocop, etc. here we come...large scale private industry as police is next I would assume.
Fair enough... I'll look forward to seeing it.
I wish there was an edit post feature:
"It also touches on the new trend which is detainment, even of children"
should read
"It also touches on the new trend which is detainment OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS, even of children"
--I am looking forward to you pov on it.
Prisoners should work for the profit of others. They should fix the dam roads in Cook county, Il. first.
The detainment I dont quite like - but the prison farms God Bless Them.
If the work they did helped us as a society, I am for it...like working on roads...not making a corporation money that in turn uses its profits to ensure more laws are made to keep people in jail for longer.
What is funny is way back when it was republicans such as Eisenhower who were weary of the Military Industrial Complex and the issues it would create, just like the Prison Industrial Complex...I guess the Repubs have just sold out all together now.
And EP, so you would have Rush imprisoned for life huh? Oxycontin and all...damn druggie...no rehabilitation...NONE...let them rot...right?
i just finished watching the episode.
when i was in texas i learned of these type of prisons...and while never having specifics, i assumed it was handled like many of the state run things that are privatized...
no suprises here. two things i wish there would have been more of...
more of the legislators talking about why they SUPPORT it. it was kind of a one sided piece. just CEOs and media reps from the other side.
the heart of why this is not an issue...we as a society don't want to know. they are bad and we are good. put'em away...where ever that is.
we don't know if a prison is about REFORM or PUNISHMENT...
and until we decide what a prison is for it will always be on both sides and in most cases doing neither!
Jason - Screw Rush Limbaugh - Your so simplistic to think I dont agree with you, therefore I like Rush Limbaugh - get bent
prisons are for housing the underprivileged...they do a pretty good job of that
EP, you paint yourself with your own rhetoric and do your own fair share of mudslinging...I would advise you to take your own medicine.
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