A thought entered my head as I was wondering home from the studio this evening at 8pm, - I'd been in since 6am this morning.
I'm questioning this business of architecture. I can do it - if I put my mind to it, I'm a very driven individual. However, as student we are working 12-15 hour days. Deprived of Sleep, Good Food and Quality of Life. We only live once ; this isn't the rehearsal this is the show.
This question is more pitched at those who have been practices for several years.. is it worth it? Was the lack of social life worth it?
Have you any regrets? Did you ever consider moving into another proffesion.
Are you having a happy existance? I really don't want to spend 10 years after I graduate working insane hours as a CAD monkey -for bugger all cash when I could simply go into another profession.
If you look back .. would you have made another choice... if you were young again, would you do it again?
I loved school, crazy studio hours included... school I would definitely do again. Was relatively unhappy with jobs for the first few years, but it gets better with time. Not making a lot of money now, but able to choose somewhat types of work, be very flexible to spend time with kids, and I do really love architecture though there is a lot to dislike about the business & academic sides of it.
So I don't know, but if you're already unhappy in school, might be worth serious consideration if you think there's something else you'd rather do. It is not too hard to make a living in architecture with reasonable hours, but what you're doing may not be what you were expecting, and the money is certainly not as good as in many other professions. I think if you really enjoy it it's worth it, if you find it boring it'll be tough to justify.
I figure that you should only do it if you really love it. Everyone should ask themselves what their motivation is in studying/practicing architecture. Is it for fame? Money (HA!)? uncontrollable egomania? If you find that you're questioning why you're there repeatedly, its probably a sign that youre not in the right profession.
Personally, I'm not from the 'poshest' of backgrounds. I can't really relate to all the upper class toffs who come and lecture complete nonesense about architectural theory. I'm quite synical. I love creativity, risk taking, and coming up with new ideas. I love science and I love art. However, I do question just how much waffle academics write about the theory of architecture.
My brother does chemistry and the stuff he learns is solid theory. It proves something. Architectural theory is just academics writing for other academics.
Too much analysis and bulls**t to be honest on that front. And practice well. I Entered it to be creative. Rendering and copying plans out onto software isn't my idea of being creative or dynamic.
Well, lucky for you when you leave school no one gives a hoot about theory. There are chances to be creative and problem-solving in the profession after you've put some grunt work in up front and have some idea what you're doing.
Put yourself in the shoes of a client - do you want your $10,000,000 project to be designed by someone who has never, as you say, "copied out plans" before?
Puddles I admire your humour. But its better to question the salary incentive now than 40 years down the line when my hairs falling out.
Well its like anything else - you have to work to earn the coinage. However - what im saying is... if you put equal amount of determination into another profession, finance for example, you'd probably get better renumeration.
if you're asking these questions, I'm thinking you already know the answer ... it doesn't matter if it's worth it to me (it is) ... it only matters if it's worth it (or not) to YOU.
you can't be happy with this profession unless you derive satisfaction from the work ... if you don't, then the hours and pay will kill you ... if you do, then you can't imagine doing anything else.
certainly, if you want to evaluate money as the primary indicator, there are other pursuits (and creative ones at that) that would have a much larger upside than the traditional career in practice.
only real advice i have regarding money: you don't make any 'serious' money in anything if you don't own the company. architecture is difficult because it takes a long time working for others to get to a point where you can own the business and make it work. but, that's the same in every field. be the boss, make the jack. it's pretty much that simple.
my advice: if you're seriously questioning it now, get out and into a field that you will find more rewarding (however you measure that). then, hire an architect to do your offices, home, etc. become a patron. seriously. we do need them...
Studio for me was the fun social college life I always wanted. If you don't enjoy it, and question the money, AND feel that what you're learning is "complete nonsense", I think reconsidering might be a wise choice.
you could go into nursing. im surprised more guys don't. i guess its the stigma of being called a male nurse. considering you could meet lots of chicks and maybe even women doctors. you could marry one and hire one of the many hungry willing to work long hours for little pay archinecters. throw us a crumb watch us scramble! for it. seriously, go into nursing! don't switch majors and go study something like philosophy or german cinema. although the world needs barristas.
My solution to the money problem is to get an MBA in Development, meet some developers in college, get in tight with them and their developer/rich people friends, build monsterous socially destructive projects to enormous financial gain for myself included and then spend the golden years of my life buying my soul back doing pro-bono work and designing small, pretty projects.
I loved school too. Had a decent social life, at least some of the time, and enjoyed the social scene in studio.
I choose an alternative path half way through grad school, though, while evaluating the same questions you are asking. I've never questioned my decision and am very happy with where I am at now.
I'd amend Aqurimac's 'advice' by saying you can do the same thing and still build quality buildings - it is up to you what you build and design. Money drives every project, small or large.
the first semester of my second year of grad school i was high the whole time as my roommates, none of whom were in architecture, had grown many pot plants in the garden...
To elaborate my "monsterous, socially destructive" projects will be beautifully designed, then again alot of monsterous socially destructive projects are especially those designed for the uber-rich.
great topic! looking back, at least for me, school was fun, but did not prepare me for the real world, and at the time, no one told me the money was pittance. now in the real world, practicing architecture would make a great hobby! . it is rewarding to see something you created from nothing rising out of the ground, and i had the drive and passion, and for a while that was enough for me. but now i'm married, and have a family to support, and my perspective has changed.
babs is right. still, i can't see myself doing anything else, so my family has to suffer along with me as we starve, but the built environment will benefit. just make sure if you're going to get married, that one of you will make the real money, while the other draw pretty picutres and live in the "virtual" world...
I think what made it worth it for me is the studio atmosphere, the friends I've made along the way, the comradery that comes with the level of intensity involved in design, the idealism that came out of breaking back over a *meaningless* project, and at the end of the day, being able to be take part in an industry where what you do from day to day presents new challenges, new ideas, new things to learn (since learning doesn't end with graduation, it just starts), and making a living off of hard work that requires strong teamwork, creativity, and where you can chat with other people about what you've been up to at work and people who are not even in the industry are interested... It's the next best social job in my humble opinion to being a film director.
If you are doing something you are passionate about, working is fun... An I think that's as important as anything when thinking about a career. Because so much of your time, half your awake hours of your life will be working... Might as well enjoy it... It's not easy, but there is something about making something tangible that you can point to and say that you were a part of that, seeing the thing built that makes it worthwhile...
But work doesn't have to be, and it won't be your whole life after you're out of school, you'll have outside interests and a social life outside of the job, but it helps when what you do at work is somehow connected to alot of real people and the environment and society around you... Not that other jobs aren't... But it's maybe something you might not get a sense of in school. The fact that what you do relates to economics, to markets, to art, to science, to landscape, to fashion, to technology, to computers, to crafts, to other design fields from furniture to graphics, to users (home owners, or developers, or restauranteurs, or clothing companies, to workers, businesses, to public space, to philosophy, to the city, to the natural environment, to ecology, to culture, students, to finance, or whoever or whatever else that the work might possily touch...) makes it alot more interesting than alot of professions in my opinion... While alot of jobs touch many of the same diverse things, I think it's a bit harder to have regular interesting conversations about corporate finance or dentistry, for example, with somebody who is not in the industry... At the very least, people will be interested in design for their homes, or their workplace, things that are immediately relevant to their everyday experiences.
So although you'll work hard, and you won't make as much money as some of your friends, and you'll probably get knee deep in gritty details and production at work, I think you'll find that doing architecture as your job has positive benefits for life outside of work too... Besides, every career path is hard in different ways, it's nice to enjoy what you're doing...
On a side note, the good news is, I don't think you'll be working 13 hour days, every day, when you start working... And you'll be compensated for your time... Hopefully... Working is different from school, you'll find that it is more paced like a marathon than like a 100 meter dash...
Once working, you'll need to balance the intensity with steady day to day work... You won't be designing all the time, and you won't be working alone like a kind of "starving artist" or anything like that... If you find that you are, better to find another job since nobody can sustain that kind of architecture school intensity for an entire lifetime in a profession... You'd get burnt out. Working, it pays to be able to pick and choose your battles and moments of intensity, and to learn to work smartly and efficiently to meet real world deadlines and client needs...
Not that you should ever lose the creativity energy, but things are different when it's not a purely "personal" project, when being a professional means keeping your client's best interests in mind, and bringing that creativity to service their needs...
It sounds like you're working too much. 'Work' is what you make of it, not how long you do it. I did plenty of things at school and had a social life, sleep and a good quality of life. As much as I am learning out here in the 'real world' I'd give it all up to go back to school again.
If you are doing something you are passionate about, working is fun... An I think that's as important as anything when thinking about a career.
bRink totally called it with this statement. If you are passionate about it, you get frustrated with the low pay, low respect, constant hurdles, etc., but you enjoy it despite all that. If you don't feel passionate about it, then those hurdles all become too much, and understandably so.
Work smarter, not harder. The single biggest problem I see with other students in arch school is that most of them have trouble understanding what is expected of them, and how to deliver that. Yes, we all have trouble from time to time (as I am right now) but spinning your wheels endlessly at 100 miles per hour isn't going to get you anywhere in the long run. This is a profession where if you're fortunate, you'll have some good work to do in 10 years, and maybe some great work in 20. In the meantime, you won't get paid relatively well, you'll work long hours for no notoriety, etc. This game is a long one.
I'm still in university but, even if the pay may be shit, or if the hours are too crazy, I still wouldn't want to do anything else. I love, and definitely enjoy, the lack of sleep, the running back and forth to get a project done on the crazy time frames they set in university. I love the whole stress that comes out of it, if you can call it stress in my case hehe. To be honest, I feel almost depressed when I'm on summer break or something and not having any projects to do but the ones I set for myself. To be honest, there's always time for everything. I don't feel like I've lost my social life at all, if anything, I've won more friends in university than anywhere else.
Yeah, I really can't see myself doing anything else but this.
If you don't enjoy the long hours now, while in university, doing imaginary projects that are supposed to be fun - quit now. You sure as shit won't enjoy long hours in the real world doing projects that aren't fun.
As for pay...I do ok. Have friends that do better and friends that don't do as well. The difference today is perks & benefits. I don't have 5 weeks vacation. I don't have a company car. I don't have a million dollar company paid insurance policy. My bonuses aren't 10's of thousands each year. I don't get a company retreat in Hawaii or Aspen. I don't even have a company paid cell phone. But, anyone with 5+ years of experience in this business should be making over $50k. That's enough to live on....not enough to justify Ivy League tuition IMO.
Regarding the long hours, I suggest you read this thread, which I wrote a few years ago and still is very much true. In the professional world you are very unlikely to be working many 13 hour days. If you do, you need to look at yourself before blaming your employer or the profession as a whole.
I have lawyer friends who hate hate hate what they do. But they justify it by receiving upwards of $200,000 a year.
Is it worth it? For some people yes, for others no. Most architects I've met are the type who could never settle just for money. They'd get too restless, too critical of their surroundings.
i believe i felt lost too at college time... no social life... no sports life... and even the architecture didnt satisfy my needs of having fun...
but i could make it fun at my graduation year..i've been more interested in green architecture..i began to feel that architecture is not nonesense...i read about architecture for humanity..and i knew that architecture is not only about writing dimensions on the plan... or copying a plan on photoshop...(though there's nothing of this at work)
and let me tell u zac..it's a great feeling..when u solve an engineering propblem in the building..after long hours for days trying to solve it...
u feel succesful...and it makes u feel rewarded..from the inside.
just love it and live it..and try to balance ur life... and enjoy it..and my final words: "NO ONE SAID IT WOULD BE EASY" ;-D
Mar 21, 08 6:02 pm ·
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13 Hour Days, and Rubbish Money... is it worth it?
A thought entered my head as I was wondering home from the studio this evening at 8pm, - I'd been in since 6am this morning.
I'm questioning this business of architecture. I can do it - if I put my mind to it, I'm a very driven individual. However, as student we are working 12-15 hour days. Deprived of Sleep, Good Food and Quality of Life. We only live once ; this isn't the rehearsal this is the show.
This question is more pitched at those who have been practices for several years.. is it worth it? Was the lack of social life worth it?
Have you any regrets? Did you ever consider moving into another proffesion.
Are you having a happy existance? I really don't want to spend 10 years after I graduate working insane hours as a CAD monkey -for bugger all cash when I could simply go into another profession.
If you look back .. would you have made another choice... if you were young again, would you do it again?
it isnt worth it
I loved school, crazy studio hours included... school I would definitely do again. Was relatively unhappy with jobs for the first few years, but it gets better with time. Not making a lot of money now, but able to choose somewhat types of work, be very flexible to spend time with kids, and I do really love architecture though there is a lot to dislike about the business & academic sides of it.
So I don't know, but if you're already unhappy in school, might be worth serious consideration if you think there's something else you'd rather do. It is not too hard to make a living in architecture with reasonable hours, but what you're doing may not be what you were expecting, and the money is certainly not as good as in many other professions. I think if you really enjoy it it's worth it, if you find it boring it'll be tough to justify.
I figure that you should only do it if you really love it. Everyone should ask themselves what their motivation is in studying/practicing architecture. Is it for fame? Money (HA!)? uncontrollable egomania? If you find that you're questioning why you're there repeatedly, its probably a sign that youre not in the right profession.
how amusing...a student is already complaining about money. perhaps basketball or football would be a better major
no it is not worth it i did so much overtime and i look at how little i mad after taxes for doing it , never again.
Personally, I'm not from the 'poshest' of backgrounds. I can't really relate to all the upper class toffs who come and lecture complete nonesense about architectural theory. I'm quite synical. I love creativity, risk taking, and coming up with new ideas. I love science and I love art. However, I do question just how much waffle academics write about the theory of architecture.
My brother does chemistry and the stuff he learns is solid theory. It proves something. Architectural theory is just academics writing for other academics.
Too much analysis and bulls**t to be honest on that front. And practice well. I Entered it to be creative. Rendering and copying plans out onto software isn't my idea of being creative or dynamic.
Well, lucky for you when you leave school no one gives a hoot about theory. There are chances to be creative and problem-solving in the profession after you've put some grunt work in up front and have some idea what you're doing.
Put yourself in the shoes of a client - do you want your $10,000,000 project to be designed by someone who has never, as you say, "copied out plans" before?
Puddles I admire your humour. But its better to question the salary incentive now than 40 years down the line when my hairs falling out.
Well its like anything else - you have to work to earn the coinage. However - what im saying is... if you put equal amount of determination into another profession, finance for example, you'd probably get better renumeration.
probably...
and you likely wouldn't be made to feel guilty when you leave the office at 6 after 2 months of 12 hour days
if you're asking these questions, I'm thinking you already know the answer ... it doesn't matter if it's worth it to me (it is) ... it only matters if it's worth it (or not) to YOU.
you can't be happy with this profession unless you derive satisfaction from the work ... if you don't, then the hours and pay will kill you ... if you do, then you can't imagine doing anything else.
Grumblers....leave the Profession....Help the supply and demand issues with a slowing economy.....
zacman -
certainly, if you want to evaluate money as the primary indicator, there are other pursuits (and creative ones at that) that would have a much larger upside than the traditional career in practice.
only real advice i have regarding money: you don't make any 'serious' money in anything if you don't own the company. architecture is difficult because it takes a long time working for others to get to a point where you can own the business and make it work. but, that's the same in every field. be the boss, make the jack. it's pretty much that simple.
my advice: if you're seriously questioning it now, get out and into a field that you will find more rewarding (however you measure that). then, hire an architect to do your offices, home, etc. become a patron. seriously. we do need them...
Studio for me was the fun social college life I always wanted. If you don't enjoy it, and question the money, AND feel that what you're learning is "complete nonsense", I think reconsidering might be a wise choice.
you could go into nursing. im surprised more guys don't. i guess its the stigma of being called a male nurse. considering you could meet lots of chicks and maybe even women doctors. you could marry one and hire one of the many hungry willing to work long hours for little pay archinecters. throw us a crumb watch us scramble! for it. seriously, go into nursing! don't switch majors and go study something like philosophy or german cinema. although the world needs barristas.
My solution to the money problem is to get an MBA in Development, meet some developers in college, get in tight with them and their developer/rich people friends, build monsterous socially destructive projects to enormous financial gain for myself included and then spend the golden years of my life buying my soul back doing pro-bono work and designing small, pretty projects.
I loved school too. Had a decent social life, at least some of the time, and enjoyed the social scene in studio.
I choose an alternative path half way through grad school, though, while evaluating the same questions you are asking. I've never questioned my decision and am very happy with where I am at now.
I'd amend Aqurimac's 'advice' by saying you can do the same thing and still build quality buildings - it is up to you what you build and design. Money drives every project, small or large.
the first semester of my second year of grad school i was high the whole time as my roommates, none of whom were in architecture, had grown many pot plants in the garden...
To elaborate my "monsterous, socially destructive" projects will be beautifully designed, then again alot of monsterous socially destructive projects are especially those designed for the uber-rich.
great topic! looking back, at least for me, school was fun, but did not prepare me for the real world, and at the time, no one told me the money was pittance. now in the real world, practicing architecture would make a great hobby! . it is rewarding to see something you created from nothing rising out of the ground, and i had the drive and passion, and for a while that was enough for me. but now i'm married, and have a family to support, and my perspective has changed.
babs is right. still, i can't see myself doing anything else, so my family has to suffer along with me as we starve, but the built environment will benefit. just make sure if you're going to get married, that one of you will make the real money, while the other draw pretty picutres and live in the "virtual" world...
I think what made it worth it for me is the studio atmosphere, the friends I've made along the way, the comradery that comes with the level of intensity involved in design, the idealism that came out of breaking back over a *meaningless* project, and at the end of the day, being able to be take part in an industry where what you do from day to day presents new challenges, new ideas, new things to learn (since learning doesn't end with graduation, it just starts), and making a living off of hard work that requires strong teamwork, creativity, and where you can chat with other people about what you've been up to at work and people who are not even in the industry are interested... It's the next best social job in my humble opinion to being a film director.
If you are doing something you are passionate about, working is fun... An I think that's as important as anything when thinking about a career. Because so much of your time, half your awake hours of your life will be working... Might as well enjoy it... It's not easy, but there is something about making something tangible that you can point to and say that you were a part of that, seeing the thing built that makes it worthwhile...
But work doesn't have to be, and it won't be your whole life after you're out of school, you'll have outside interests and a social life outside of the job, but it helps when what you do at work is somehow connected to alot of real people and the environment and society around you... Not that other jobs aren't... But it's maybe something you might not get a sense of in school. The fact that what you do relates to economics, to markets, to art, to science, to landscape, to fashion, to technology, to computers, to crafts, to other design fields from furniture to graphics, to users (home owners, or developers, or restauranteurs, or clothing companies, to workers, businesses, to public space, to philosophy, to the city, to the natural environment, to ecology, to culture, students, to finance, or whoever or whatever else that the work might possily touch...) makes it alot more interesting than alot of professions in my opinion... While alot of jobs touch many of the same diverse things, I think it's a bit harder to have regular interesting conversations about corporate finance or dentistry, for example, with somebody who is not in the industry... At the very least, people will be interested in design for their homes, or their workplace, things that are immediately relevant to their everyday experiences.
So although you'll work hard, and you won't make as much money as some of your friends, and you'll probably get knee deep in gritty details and production at work, I think you'll find that doing architecture as your job has positive benefits for life outside of work too... Besides, every career path is hard in different ways, it's nice to enjoy what you're doing...
On a side note, the good news is, I don't think you'll be working 13 hour days, every day, when you start working... And you'll be compensated for your time... Hopefully... Working is different from school, you'll find that it is more paced like a marathon than like a 100 meter dash...
Once working, you'll need to balance the intensity with steady day to day work... You won't be designing all the time, and you won't be working alone like a kind of "starving artist" or anything like that... If you find that you are, better to find another job since nobody can sustain that kind of architecture school intensity for an entire lifetime in a profession... You'd get burnt out. Working, it pays to be able to pick and choose your battles and moments of intensity, and to learn to work smartly and efficiently to meet real world deadlines and client needs...
Not that you should ever lose the creativity energy, but things are different when it's not a purely "personal" project, when being a professional means keeping your client's best interests in mind, and bringing that creativity to service their needs...
we should all open a little shop by the sea...
It sounds like you're working too much. 'Work' is what you make of it, not how long you do it. I did plenty of things at school and had a social life, sleep and a good quality of life. As much as I am learning out here in the 'real world' I'd give it all up to go back to school again.
bRink totally called it with this statement. If you are passionate about it, you get frustrated with the low pay, low respect, constant hurdles, etc., but you enjoy it despite all that. If you don't feel passionate about it, then those hurdles all become too much, and understandably so.
you are better off working those long hours. take it from me, having free time spells trouble.
Work smarter, not harder. The single biggest problem I see with other students in arch school is that most of them have trouble understanding what is expected of them, and how to deliver that. Yes, we all have trouble from time to time (as I am right now) but spinning your wheels endlessly at 100 miles per hour isn't going to get you anywhere in the long run. This is a profession where if you're fortunate, you'll have some good work to do in 10 years, and maybe some great work in 20. In the meantime, you won't get paid relatively well, you'll work long hours for no notoriety, etc. This game is a long one.
bRink, thanks for that. I enjoyed reading it.
thank you, i feel better now.
I'm still in university but, even if the pay may be shit, or if the hours are too crazy, I still wouldn't want to do anything else. I love, and definitely enjoy, the lack of sleep, the running back and forth to get a project done on the crazy time frames they set in university. I love the whole stress that comes out of it, if you can call it stress in my case hehe. To be honest, I feel almost depressed when I'm on summer break or something and not having any projects to do but the ones I set for myself. To be honest, there's always time for everything. I don't feel like I've lost my social life at all, if anything, I've won more friends in university than anywhere else.
Yeah, I really can't see myself doing anything else but this.
Beep Beep Beep.....PERSPECTIVE
If you don't enjoy the long hours now, while in university, doing imaginary projects that are supposed to be fun - quit now. You sure as shit won't enjoy long hours in the real world doing projects that aren't fun.
As for pay...I do ok. Have friends that do better and friends that don't do as well. The difference today is perks & benefits. I don't have 5 weeks vacation. I don't have a company car. I don't have a million dollar company paid insurance policy. My bonuses aren't 10's of thousands each year. I don't get a company retreat in Hawaii or Aspen. I don't even have a company paid cell phone. But, anyone with 5+ years of experience in this business should be making over $50k. That's enough to live on....not enough to justify Ivy League tuition IMO.
Regarding the long hours, I suggest you read this thread, which I wrote a few years ago and still is very much true. In the professional world you are very unlikely to be working many 13 hour days. If you do, you need to look at yourself before blaming your employer or the profession as a whole.
I have lawyer friends who hate hate hate what they do. But they justify it by receiving upwards of $200,000 a year.
Is it worth it? For some people yes, for others no. Most architects I've met are the type who could never settle just for money. They'd get too restless, too critical of their surroundings.
i believe i felt lost too at college time... no social life... no sports life... and even the architecture didnt satisfy my needs of having fun...
but i could make it fun at my graduation year..i've been more interested in green architecture..i began to feel that architecture is not nonesense...i read about architecture for humanity..and i knew that architecture is not only about writing dimensions on the plan... or copying a plan on photoshop...(though there's nothing of this at work)
and let me tell u zac..it's a great feeling..when u solve an engineering propblem in the building..after long hours for days trying to solve it...
u feel succesful...and it makes u feel rewarded..from the inside.
just love it and live it..and try to balance ur life... and enjoy it..and my final words: "NO ONE SAID IT WOULD BE EASY" ;-D
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