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Applying for a M.Arch III degree with an un-related undergrad.

chopsky

Hey All,

I'm looking at applying for the M.Arch (3+ year) program at the University of Toronto and Washington Uni (Seattle). I have a Bachelor of Commerce undergraduate degree, so this seemed like the best (and only) option without having to do another under-grad.

I see everyone else in this forum applying to places like Columbia, Harvard, MIT etc, but I honestly have no idea how people can afford those places (without taking out massive loans). I'm having a hard enough time swallowing the $20k annual fee that these 2 ask.

Anyway, that's besides the point. I have a few questions.

1) Firstly, has anyone heard anything good/bad about these Colleges?

2) Are these 3-year Masters degrees just as well respected in the industry compared to someone who has an undergrad AND post-grad in Architecture?

3) Finally and probably most-importantly, would you guys mind having a look at my portfolio and letting me know your honest thoughts? Keep in mind I have no history in Architecture. My background is in photography and digital design.
link to portfolio: http://www.grantshapiro.com/portfolio_small.pdf

Thanks guys!

 
Jan 3, 08 8:19 pm
citrus.grey

1) Sorry don't know much specifically about either program except their general reputation which is favorable, I know UW has a pretty strong emphasis on sustainability but that is just anecdotal.

2) Yes a three years masters degree is just as well respected as a post professional (2 year) masters degree. At least as far as I know (someone might disagree), but it's all an M.Arch once it goes on your resume.

3) Portfolio looks nice, I think it really let's your photography speak, the layout is simple, doesn't get in the way, I think this is the best approach for the type of work you're presenting in your portfolio. Granted I just took a quick look but I think it has a sharp feel to it.

One thing I’d think about, your photography seems (to me at least) to be by far the strongest work in the portfolio, the first couple shots really caught my attention, and the work from Africa obviously has a lot of emotional resonance, all really strong things. But the logo/web designs aren't nearly as powerful. Don't get me wrong they're good designs and show a breadth to your creativity so I’d definitely keep them in. But this type of work just isn’t as visually compelling and I think putting these at the end sort of leaves it on a flat note.

Some might disagree with me on this but if it were me I’d make the South African photography a special section, take your label under the first photo and make it a heading as you did with the photography and web/logo design, and place this work at the end. That way you sandwich your weaker work between your strongest work.

Again don't misunderstand me though I like it, too often I think people place photography in portfolios and it's not so much photography as taking pictures, but this is nice work here.

Anyways hope this was helpful, hang in there and good luck.

Jan 3, 08 10:37 pm  · 
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citrus.grey

Sorry for the typos, should have proofread, anyways a quick note about 2) now that I think about it, while I believe the two degrees are equally respected, I’d have to say that having a professional degree as well as a post-professional degree (especially if they're from different universities) can show both a diversity as well as a sustained interest that a single degree doesn't necessarily show on its own, ultimately though it's not something to worry about.

Jan 3, 08 10:51 pm  · 
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chopsky

sitric, thanks a lot for the excellent response.
Yeh, unfortunately I've already printed the portfolio, so the layout stays as it is. Given that, do you think it's a strong portfolio for an M.Arch III application? Am I in with a decent chance?

I'd be interested to hear some other opinions as well.

Jan 4, 08 5:27 am  · 
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citrus.grey

That’s a pretty tough question, especially for me as I’m also applying to grad school (different ones) with a pre-prof degree in architecture and it's something I’ve asked myself all the time through this process. Truthfully I think there are too many variables in the application process to really say anyone is in or out, your work might have a profound effect on a reviewer or it might not, and all of these schools are really competitive. Also I don't have a lot of knowledge on either of your schools. But...

I think your portfolio is nice as is, and definitely better than a lot of the ones that both those schools will see I’m sure, so given strong supporting material (recommendations, statement of purpose, GRE, etc.) I’d think you would definitely be a good candidate, beyond that I can't really say, believe me if I had a dollar for every sleepless night I’ve spent wondering that...Sorry for such a lame response, but just do the absolute best you can with every part of the application, it’s really all any of us can do.

Jan 4, 08 12:59 pm  · 
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chopsky

Your response wasn't lame! Thanks a lot.
Well, 110 views for this thread, any other opinions? :)

Jan 4, 08 1:34 pm  · 
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NoSleep

you're probably looking for solace from the chances of not being accepted. that solace cannot be found until you receive the letters of acceptance...

1. UW has a great program. there is a concentration on sustainability, but i know of numerous firms that consider the school to have prestige. being in the US, i don't know much about U of Toronto.

2. 3-year M.Arch is academically equivalent, but employers usually look at experience and portfolios when considering a hire

3. your portfolio had amazing pictures! i do think it's missing some work though. maybe some drawings or paintings, or maybe some more digital work...but as you previously mentioned, you have already printed so it is what it is...

i know what place you are in. i was accepted last year to 2 out of the four schools i applied to. my background is in business so it was tough to convince schools that i have a creative bone. i fooled two...

i would advise applying to a couple of other schools if you still have the time. it's good to diversify your chances of acceptance

Jan 4, 08 2:14 pm  · 
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chopsky

Cool, thanks man.

Yeh, it's not really solace. It's more the fact that Im an International with no experience or knowledge of what American schools look for, or what the expectations are.

NoSleep, did you apply for the same program I'm applying for?
If so, any way I could take a look at the portfolio you submitted?

I dont mind printing another copy to be honest. I would add to it if need be, but I just felt this was the best representation of my work. Dont have any drawings/paintings.

Jan 4, 08 6:17 pm  · 
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NoSleep

unfortunately, my port exceed esnips' "new" max upload for free accounts.

here's a link of some '07 stuff.

i know you introduce the port with a statement that photos explain themselves, but many schools will consider creative writing in their crit. it may be worth writing up some work.

here's some stats on how many schools critique an applicant:

40% - portfolio
20% - statement of purpose
20% - letters of recommendation
10% - GRE
10% - GPA

i think it will definitely help that you're an international student. many schools enjoy diversity in the experience of the student body

Jan 4, 08 9:03 pm  · 
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u of toronto has a good rep in canada. i know a few who taught there or teach there now and they are quite good educators. the program seems to be quite good too. but it depends on what you are looking for...

by international you mean you are canadian?

the portfolio looks quite good. if your other application docs are as good i would assume you have a good chance. a few drawings would be nice, but i don't think it hurts that they aren't there.


good luck!

Jan 4, 08 9:59 pm  · 
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fulcrum

umm, pardon me, but what is MArch III? I know MArch I, which is 3+ years of grad school, and MArch II, which is between 1 1/2 and 2 years of grad school... but I've never heard of MArch III. Do you mean MArch I?

Jan 4, 08 10:06 pm  · 
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chopsky

NoSleep: Thanks man!

fulcrum: Sorry, perhaps it's M.Arch I. I keep seeing different names for it.

jump: By international I mean South African.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Jan 5, 08 4:42 am  · 
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chopsky

NoSleep, holy shit. Those portfolios are insane, although they were all filled with Architecture. But really impressive. Got me worried.

Jan 5, 08 4:58 am  · 
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chopsky

And for my 3rd consecutive post:

NoSleep, I didn't say in the introduction that the photos explain themself. I said that the art explains the artist.

(wow, I wish there was a way to edit your comments)

Jan 5, 08 5:05 am  · 
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if you plan to go back to south africa after finishing the degree you should check that the degree will be acceped as professional degree by the accreditation organisation there.

if you stay in north america it is enough and not an issue. in UK though, you would possibly have to go back to school to get your part II, then work for a few years and do your part III to get licenced. i don't know if S. Africa follows RIBA system or not, but if it does you would need 5 years of focused ARCHITECTURE education to be considered properly educated up enough to take the licence exam. which would mean the degree is not a good choice for you.

as far as portfolio goes though, i wouldn't worry that your own stuff is not architectural. for the programs you are looking at that is totally cool.

Jan 5, 08 7:57 pm  · 
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chopsky

Great, so I could never practice in Europe if I did that degree.
Not very promising.

I plan on staying in America, but I'd want my degree to be as universal as possible.

So basically, I'd be better off doing a 3 year undergrad degree in Aussie maybe, and then the 2 year M.Arch in US.

Jan 5, 08 8:13 pm  · 
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chopsky

jump, gave it some thought. decided, i want to practice in america. have no desire to live in europe.
I guess if people like my buildings, they'll want to hire me to design their buildings regardless of whether im accredited or not.

Jan 6, 08 6:56 am  · 
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kyleseyz

I go to UW (undergrad, I am familiar with the grad program though), it's not like you have to focus on sustainability or anything.

We are on a quarter system, so you'll have 3 studios a year.

The faculty is great, but kinda incestual. Most of the teachers went to UW, Penn, or some combination of the two.

The M Arch III program gets a good foundation of hand drawing in the first year too, you won't get taught from Frank [Ching], he is irritated by grad students, but it will be along those lines.

If you could maybe fix the link to your profile I could tell you how yours compares to other March III portfolios I've seen.

Good luck, I'll root for UW! Then again I won't go there for graduate school.

Jan 7, 08 2:21 am  · 
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i would not be confident on that unaccredited score, but many many people get the degree just like you are talking about in north america and it isn't an issue. in north america.

reciprocity is an issue only if you plan to travel. i have worked in 3 countries and experienced the pain in the ass of it all in each one - and going both ways. based on my own and friends' experience holland, finland, germany, and even here in japan it isn't such a problem for education to be validated (mainland europe is by far the easiest), but the UK and USA are not always easy. i had undergrad and grad school in canada so UK reciprocity was only a matter of (a lot of) money but they did ask me at the beginning if i had 5 years of archi-education...seemed to be a point of interest for them...

but anyway the real point is whether you will go back to south africa later and what their policy is. if you don't need a visa in the USA to stay after you graduate then it ain't an issue, but you might find yourself one day wanting to go back home...and then be surprised. so might be worth checking into.

Jan 7, 08 2:37 am  · 
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chopsky

Thanks jump, I'll make sure to check what the local policy is.

kyleseyz, I've reuploaded the porty. Howcome you won't go there for grad school?

Jan 7, 08 4:11 am  · 
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Jamchar

I would personally remove a few of the photos you have at the end. Six seems a little much, and a few (esp colored) of the photos arent necesarilly monumental.

Jan 8, 08 3:23 pm  · 
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Jamchar

I was refering to the last six of the AIDS walk

Jan 8, 08 3:23 pm  · 
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