I am fairly new to my office and basicly supposed to be an intern. I am anal about coordination of drawings however. My PM is so overburdened that he can't really even look at the drawings but still won't delegate.
We are having huge coordination issues with our structural engineer. We are already under construction and still don't have the basic dimensions of the building coordinated. Things like column lines and even the basic perimeter of the building shell having the same configuration.
I ask around to some of the other PM's and they say the structural guys don't care because they have more work than they could ever do. I have no clout to even tell the structural to match our plans so drawings are issued wrong. Part of the problem is we don't ever see a drawing from structural till the afternoon of issue, which leaves no time for fixing mistakes on either end. Its a big no-no in our office to extend deadlines as well, they would rather issue wrong drawings and "fix it when the shop drawings come". If the people can't coordinate the drawings I doubt they have the smarts to check the shop drawings.
I guess I am just venting, not asking for advice. I feel I am working for a bunch of hacks. I am learning some things as its my first time doing actual building shells, but I feel my days are numbered. I just can't stand doing shoddy work.
in a word, yes. Most engineers have the capacity to frustrate an architect. Point out to your pm that there are coordination issues that you think you could resolve if given the opportunity to.
Frequently, the best coordination occurs at a peer level - intern to intern, PM to PM, etc.
As a general rule, the architect should be the one to establish the building footprint and the column grid with input from the structural.
Issuing drawings you know have coordination problems is a VERY, VERY BAD habit to get into. Poorly coordinated drawings reflect poorly on everyone and every firm involved in the project. The owner is paying for professional service - uncoordinated drawings are a dis-service.
Yes, I think eventually the only option is to change jobs. I have been seeing this problem from day one. I'm not sure the PM can even see some of the coordination issues even if he took the time. It is frustrating to not have the authority to say no to issuing the drawings, even though I can't be held legally or professionally responsible, I think its ethically a bad situation. I have gotten in the habit of emailing the PM with discrepancies so I am at least covering myself.
Alright, it's Stereotype Sunday time! I only graduated a few years ago so I'm quasi-new to the profession BUT the majority of the structural engineers I have worked with have been incredibly lazy.
My experiences have been something along this story line. We, the designers, sketch an out-of-the-norm form and email it to them. They, the structural engineers, freak out over the phone saying it's not possible. We, the designers, say it is. We sit back down and draw some sections of how this out-of-the-norm form actually is structurally assembled. They again doubt that it will work and want proof. We sit down with our TI-89 calculators and begin to run some numbers and roughly size some of the members. We email the info to them. They humbly return our phone call and say they'll think about it. Two days later we'll see that they have drafted out our sketch and placed it on their border.
Something similar has happened on four separate projects using three different structural engineers. We shouldn't be doing their job, but in my office, it seems we do quite often. It's seems that if we don't do their job, we can't do ours which is to provide a design solution.
Disclaimer: This opinion is based solely on personal experience. I understand that not all structural engineers are lazy fucks.
Ouch, OldFogey...thats true but it hurts hehe . I sit right next to the PM, and the reason he is overworked is because he spends all his time on the phone and email trying to fix things that were drawn wrong.
the structural engineers dont want to assume any more liability by designing anything a-typical...I dont blame them. They are in it for the $$$...I dont blame them
why bust your balls doing something avant garde when you can put up boxes for the same amount of $$$. The structual engineer is very rarely recongnized at the end of the day
Most our contracts state that the structural engineer works for the architect. If we design something avant garde, they structurally design for something avant garde.
If they don't want to assume the liability for anything out of the norm, they shouldn't market, accept, or work on a job that veers from their comfort zone.
The sad part is, this is really basic stuff. Its tiltwall building shells for retail. No avante guard, just normal everyday humdrum building. I don't know how you can not add up a string of dimensions and make them come out to equal. Its third grade math or highschool drafting. Some people just don't care enough about their work I guess.
in situations like this, i'd make the CA budget larger than the CD phase, and pass along the cost to the engineer. when they ask why, tell them. or, you could just set up a meeting with the engineers in your office, like the day before christmas or new years, at around 330 pm, and tell them to get their shit in gear or their kids won't get the g.i. joe with the kung-fu grip. take the initiative, your bosses will love it.
I am fortunate to work with a good struct. engr. No major issues when coordinating our drawings. He puts forth a good effort. The only think that gets me fire up is when he starts to sing along with his Best of John Denver cd. Other than that, he is a great guy to work with!!
A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel sticking out of his zipper. The bartender says, “Hey! Did you know you have a steering wheel attached to your willie?” The pirate replies, “Aye! It’s driving me nuts!”
different experience here.
i have ongoing professional relationships with primarily 2 different structural engineering firms and have worked with others as well, depending on the type of project.
Each have been nothing but professional and i see it all as a challenge to make the best solution possible.
apparently they do as well or we wouldn't be working together.
building footprints and column lines not coordinated?
that is a disaster in the making.
As consultants go, we always find MEP to be a disaster either in conception or execution.
Does your structural engineer drive you nuts?
I am fairly new to my office and basicly supposed to be an intern. I am anal about coordination of drawings however. My PM is so overburdened that he can't really even look at the drawings but still won't delegate.
We are having huge coordination issues with our structural engineer. We are already under construction and still don't have the basic dimensions of the building coordinated. Things like column lines and even the basic perimeter of the building shell having the same configuration.
I ask around to some of the other PM's and they say the structural guys don't care because they have more work than they could ever do. I have no clout to even tell the structural to match our plans so drawings are issued wrong. Part of the problem is we don't ever see a drawing from structural till the afternoon of issue, which leaves no time for fixing mistakes on either end. Its a big no-no in our office to extend deadlines as well, they would rather issue wrong drawings and "fix it when the shop drawings come". If the people can't coordinate the drawings I doubt they have the smarts to check the shop drawings.
I guess I am just venting, not asking for advice. I feel I am working for a bunch of hacks. I am learning some things as its my first time doing actual building shells, but I feel my days are numbered. I just can't stand doing shoddy work.
in a word, yes. Most engineers have the capacity to frustrate an architect. Point out to your pm that there are coordination issues that you think you could resolve if given the opportunity to.
Frequently, the best coordination occurs at a peer level - intern to intern, PM to PM, etc.
As a general rule, the architect should be the one to establish the building footprint and the column grid with input from the structural.
Issuing drawings you know have coordination problems is a VERY, VERY BAD habit to get into. Poorly coordinated drawings reflect poorly on everyone and every firm involved in the project. The owner is paying for professional service - uncoordinated drawings are a dis-service.
change jobs if you feel like you need to.
VIF
+/-
Yes, I think eventually the only option is to change jobs. I have been seeing this problem from day one. I'm not sure the PM can even see some of the coordination issues even if he took the time. It is frustrating to not have the authority to say no to issuing the drawings, even though I can't be held legally or professionally responsible, I think its ethically a bad situation. I have gotten in the habit of emailing the PM with discrepancies so I am at least covering myself.
to the structural engineer...
Alright, it's Stereotype Sunday time! I only graduated a few years ago so I'm quasi-new to the profession BUT the majority of the structural engineers I have worked with have been incredibly lazy.
My experiences have been something along this story line. We, the designers, sketch an out-of-the-norm form and email it to them. They, the structural engineers, freak out over the phone saying it's not possible. We, the designers, say it is. We sit back down and draw some sections of how this out-of-the-norm form actually is structurally assembled. They again doubt that it will work and want proof. We sit down with our TI-89 calculators and begin to run some numbers and roughly size some of the members. We email the info to them. They humbly return our phone call and say they'll think about it. Two days later we'll see that they have drafted out our sketch and placed it on their border.
Something similar has happened on four separate projects using three different structural engineers. We shouldn't be doing their job, but in my office, it seems we do quite often. It's seems that if we don't do their job, we can't do ours which is to provide a design solution.
Disclaimer: This opinion is based solely on personal experience. I understand that not all structural engineers are lazy fucks.
Ouch, OldFogey...thats true but it hurts hehe . I sit right next to the PM, and the reason he is overworked is because he spends all his time on the phone and email trying to fix things that were drawn wrong.
n_
the structural engineers dont want to assume any more liability by designing anything a-typical...I dont blame them. They are in it for the $$$...I dont blame them
why bust your balls doing something avant garde when you can put up boxes for the same amount of $$$. The structual engineer is very rarely recongnized at the end of the day
Most our contracts state that the structural engineer works for the architect. If we design something avant garde, they structurally design for something avant garde.
If they don't want to assume the liability for anything out of the norm, they shouldn't market, accept, or work on a job that veers from their comfort zone.
The sad part is, this is really basic stuff. Its tiltwall building shells for retail. No avante guard, just normal everyday humdrum building. I don't know how you can not add up a string of dimensions and make them come out to equal. Its third grade math or highschool drafting. Some people just don't care enough about their work I guess.
maybe your engineer only has 9 fingers
in situations like this, i'd make the CA budget larger than the CD phase, and pass along the cost to the engineer. when they ask why, tell them. or, you could just set up a meeting with the engineers in your office, like the day before christmas or new years, at around 330 pm, and tell them to get their shit in gear or their kids won't get the g.i. joe with the kung-fu grip. take the initiative, your bosses will love it.
I am fortunate to work with a good struct. engr. No major issues when coordinating our drawings. He puts forth a good effort. The only think that gets me fire up is when he starts to sing along with his Best of John Denver cd. Other than that, he is a great guy to work with!!
no. my boss drives me nuts. my structural engineer is great.
If you are looking for a new Structural Engineer, I advise on checking out this site:
http://bidboldly.com
This site was made for architects looking for new engineering talent!
Cheers,
Ramin
A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel sticking out of his zipper. The bartender says, “Hey! Did you know you have a steering wheel attached to your willie?” The pirate replies, “Aye! It’s driving me nuts!”
different experience here.
i have ongoing professional relationships with primarily 2 different structural engineering firms and have worked with others as well, depending on the type of project.
Each have been nothing but professional and i see it all as a challenge to make the best solution possible.
apparently they do as well or we wouldn't be working together.
building footprints and column lines not coordinated?
that is a disaster in the making.
As consultants go, we always find MEP to be a disaster either in conception or execution.
Makes me shutter when i think about it.
you've mislabled, shutter talk is over here
frac... Thanks but that's a conversation I think I'll avoid
aw man you guys don't want to talk about curtains?
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