On Friday I have my first interview in an office for a drafting position. I graduated last May with my B.Arch. Due to the lack of a job & desire to keep up my working momentum, the last several months I worked tirelessly on my portfolio & applied to graduate programs (mostly MS Arch post professional degrees). None of the schools are in the same city I currently live, so working for this office while in school isn't really an option.
My question: Do I have an obligation to inform my possible future employer that I may go back to school in several months?
I do not want to be dishonest because getting my masters is a goal of mine yet I realize exposing this information may hinder my chances of getting the job.
I'm leaning towards being straightforward & letting him know my circumstances but any opinions or advice would be much appreciated.
You're leaning in the right direction. The more honest and straight-forward you can be, the better.
The real question I'd have, is if you see working as an alternative to further education, or something to do in the summer before going back to school.
If you're true intent is to pursue the MS, than sure, it might hinder your chances, but describing it as something you were doing partly in response to the lack of a job, it could be the case that you take the job instead of going to school.
If you can answer this for yourself first, I think you can frame the conversation much better for the interview.
It's just a drafting position by the way. Go to your interview and knock em' dead. If you get the offer, accept it, work for several months (collect and SAVE some much needed moolah before grad school) and when it's time for you to attend your grad program, go. I think you are doing the right thing.
med.'s advice is self-centered and unprofessional. since you're hearing back from schools REALLY soon, look at your offers and make a decision about attending. then, pursue a job or just an internship.
jobs in our profession are not just making a few bucks. it's about building relationships, and learning from mentors. especially for young designers.
jk3hl's advise is nothing more than fantasyland, just FYI. In the world I live in things cost money - a lot of it including food, housing, health, partying, drinking, playing - everything!
It is true that relationships should be build and burning bridges is the last thing you want to do with anyone, but at the same time that same employer would have no problem shit-canning you when there is a weaker-than-expected work-load forcast. Everyone knows this.
self-centered and unprofessional is a bit harsh imo. this guy is not applying for a designer position. he's looking for a low-level drafting job for money before he starts school. he didn't talk about idp or mentorship or anything like that in his original post.
do firms really talk about their workload in an interview for a draftsman? if they just had a big project come in and they need quick support staff for the real architects, do you think they would be open about the likelihood they might need a round of layoffs after that project moves forward far enough? are you saying there are different standards of honesty depending on how high up the hierarchy you are?
having said that, i think people should always try to be as open and honest as they can, and i do my best to keep to that myself. if you can't, at least don't lie or intentionally misrepresent what you know to be fact. of course i've often found i can't expect the same courtesy i give to be returned.
Thank you for your feedback everyone. IDP is important to me & although this job would fall more into engineering, I will hopefully be working under a licensed professional to log more IDP hours.
@Joseph Wassell - I agree with what you are saying about how to frame the conversation based upon whether I'm taking this job before going back to school or if I was trying to go back to school because I had no job. I think once I find out where/if I'm accepted to school I will have a more clear picture, the timing of everything has created this dilemma.
As a few have stated, it is just a drafting position & not exactly an 'architecture' job (I believe it is primarily tele comm projects) but I could use the money & need experience in construction details. I want to be ethical & avoid burning bridges down the road but I also really want to get to work.
I did this at my first job interview (told them I was going to grad school). Never ended up going upon realizing that what I needed to learn was in an office not the university and a few years later I was still there when my employer informed me the reason they hadn't given me growth opportunities and treated me like a young architect was because they thought I was going to leave and go back to school. Ooops. Screwed up the beginning of my career pretty good, hard to recover from. If I could do it again, I would not tell them. Which was the advice I got at the time, but didn't take because I thought it was lying. Would I have been lying? At that point it is a possibility, and should be treat it as such. I'm not saying this is your scenario, but a little glimpse into mine. Maybe your intentions are clearer than mine were. Good luck.
The hiring process, at the lower levels, can be just a hair over fraternity hazing, so tell "white lies" you can tell convincingly to put the ball in your court. And, then, when you see some of your peers when you get there warrants lying, sometimes. Sorry if I'm negative. I prefer to see myself as a realist.
I've been asked, or seem, some eye-openers, while looking over their glasses: (a) asked personal questions which are clearly illegal in the U.S., (b) asked why I chose a non-traditional route to arch (3 yr. M.Arch.), (c) sat in an interview with a handful of people where the designer was obligatorily there and was sketching on my resume because he was bored, (d) had an interview with 2 principals where they wanted me to make an on-the-spot decision to accept, and when I told them I had other interviews set up, he shook a pile of resumes at me telling me how many people wanted to work in this swanky community, at $10K to $15K below market, and (e) had a guy come into the conference room who hadn't yet sat down ask me "So, how much do you want to make?"
Tell the white lie. For a drafting job, bet in an alternative scenario or in a decent firm, you will not be paid well and opportunities may be limited, so bring on the "white lies." I knew better after a couple of years.
I think the firm would me more inclined to hire you if you told them that you plan to go back for your masters in a year or two. Often times, firms need some temporary assistance and would rather hire you temporarily than commit to hiring someone for a long-term permanent position.
how much is your integrity worth? a short term drafting job? a long career as someone who apparently can't really be trusted? perhaps some people consider it a relatively common commodity that isn't worth trading for much. personally, i prefer to think it's still useful to keep around.
Say you are interested in continuing your education. You don't have to say when or where. That gives them notice, but in a way that makes you more serious about your profession. If you get the job, don't treat it like a temporary position, work your ass off. Maybe something really good will come out of it. Maybe not.
If you start by telling them it's a temporary thing for you, they are going to either show you the door or - if it fits their program - take you on as a temp and treat you accordingly.
how much is your integrity worth? a short term drafting job? a long career as someone who apparently can't really be trusted? perhaps some people consider it a relatively common commodity that isn't worth trading for much. personally, i prefer to think it's still useful to keep around.
I usually like the gist of your posts. However, I disagree here. I had a situation where I went on some interviews wanting to move between two fairly close metro areas, the latter of which is generally more desirable and where I was not living. I'd go there to interview, to find some hesitation because of the (easy moving truck) relocation, at a point in my career where I was very junior. The light bulb went on. I got a cell phone with that area code and had a friend there whose address I used to give the semblance of living in the area. I then got calls. I suited up at 4 am, got on the interstate, got the job offer, and was a committed employee. Can't really be trusted? Not in this case.
Look at it this way. You're fresh out of school and applying for a job that is on the fringe of your chosen profession at best. They aren't hiring you for your knowledge or skills, they're hiring you to push a mouse. In that capacity you are infinitely replaceable in this economy. If you leave in 4-5 months, what are they loosing in terms of their "investment" in you? It might not prove to be a useful reference down the road but again, you're drafting telcom details. Under different circumstances I might feel differently, but in this case I don't think it's that big a deal.
Look at it this way. You're fresh out of school and applying for a job that is on the fringe of your chosen profession at best. They aren't hiring you for your knowledge or skills, they're hiring you to push a mouse. In that capacity you are infinitely replaceable in this economy. If you leave in 4-5 months, what are they loosing in terms of their "investment" in you? It might not prove to be a useful reference down the road but again, you're drafting telcom details. Under different circumstances I might feel differently, but in this case I don't think it's that big a deal.
Absolutely. Lie. Don't tell them. There will be someone on stand-by to take that job. I knew a woman who came into a city who got employed by a crappy firm, and then got called by a good firm 5 months later. She went to the good firm. She left the 5 month sojourn off her resume. Being that she had 2 small children, that's how she was going to explain it. Between the two firms, she would have been an idiot NOT to go.
Feb 28, 13 6:53 pm ·
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Interview Question
My question: Do I have an obligation to inform my possible future employer that I may go back to school in several months?
I do not want to be dishonest because getting my masters is a goal of mine yet I realize exposing this information may hinder my chances of getting the job.
I'm leaning towards being straightforward & letting him know my circumstances but any opinions or advice would be much appreciated.
You're leaning in the right direction. The more honest and straight-forward you can be, the better.
The real question I'd have, is if you see working as an alternative to further education, or something to do in the summer before going back to school.
If you're true intent is to pursue the MS, than sure, it might hinder your chances, but describing it as something you were doing partly in response to the lack of a job, it could be the case that you take the job instead of going to school.
If you can answer this for yourself first, I think you can frame the conversation much better for the interview.
"My question: Do I have an obligation to inform my possible future employer that I may go back to school in several months?"
No.
It's just a drafting position by the way. Go to your interview and knock em' dead. If you get the offer, accept it, work for several months (collect and SAVE some much needed moolah before grad school) and when it's time for you to attend your grad program, go. I think you are doing the right thing.
med.'s advice is self-centered and unprofessional. since you're hearing back from schools REALLY soon, look at your offers and make a decision about attending. then, pursue a job or just an internship.
jobs in our profession are not just making a few bucks. it's about building relationships, and learning from mentors. especially for young designers.
jk3hl's advise is nothing more than fantasyland, just FYI. In the world I live in things cost money - a lot of it including food, housing, health, partying, drinking, playing - everything!
It is true that relationships should be build and burning bridges is the last thing you want to do with anyone, but at the same time that same employer would have no problem shit-canning you when there is a weaker-than-expected work-load forcast. Everyone knows this.
self-centered and unprofessional is a bit harsh imo. this guy is not applying for a designer position. he's looking for a low-level drafting job for money before he starts school. he didn't talk about idp or mentorship or anything like that in his original post.
do firms really talk about their workload in an interview for a draftsman? if they just had a big project come in and they need quick support staff for the real architects, do you think they would be open about the likelihood they might need a round of layoffs after that project moves forward far enough? are you saying there are different standards of honesty depending on how high up the hierarchy you are?
having said that, i think people should always try to be as open and honest as they can, and i do my best to keep to that myself. if you can't, at least don't lie or intentionally misrepresent what you know to be fact. of course i've often found i can't expect the same courtesy i give to be returned.
@Joseph Wassell - I agree with what you are saying about how to frame the conversation based upon whether I'm taking this job before going back to school or if I was trying to go back to school because I had no job. I think once I find out where/if I'm accepted to school I will have a more clear picture, the timing of everything has created this dilemma.
As a few have stated, it is just a drafting position & not exactly an 'architecture' job (I believe it is primarily tele comm projects) but I could use the money & need experience in construction details. I want to be ethical & avoid burning bridges down the road but I also really want to get to work.
Again, thanks for your feedback!
I did this at my first job interview (told them I was going to grad school). Never ended up going upon realizing that what I needed to learn was in an office not the university and a few years later I was still there when my employer informed me the reason they hadn't given me growth opportunities and treated me like a young architect was because they thought I was going to leave and go back to school. Ooops. Screwed up the beginning of my career pretty good, hard to recover from. If I could do it again, I would not tell them. Which was the advice I got at the time, but didn't take because I thought it was lying. Would I have been lying? At that point it is a possibility, and should be treat it as such. I'm not saying this is your scenario, but a little glimpse into mine. Maybe your intentions are clearer than mine were. Good luck.
Be dishonest ... up to a point.
The hiring process, at the lower levels, can be just a hair over fraternity hazing, so tell "white lies" you can tell convincingly to put the ball in your court. And, then, when you see some of your peers when you get there warrants lying, sometimes. Sorry if I'm negative. I prefer to see myself as a realist.
I've been asked, or seem, some eye-openers, while looking over their glasses: (a) asked personal questions which are clearly illegal in the U.S., (b) asked why I chose a non-traditional route to arch (3 yr. M.Arch.), (c) sat in an interview with a handful of people where the designer was obligatorily there and was sketching on my resume because he was bored, (d) had an interview with 2 principals where they wanted me to make an on-the-spot decision to accept, and when I told them I had other interviews set up, he shook a pile of resumes at me telling me how many people wanted to work in this swanky community, at $10K to $15K below market, and (e) had a guy come into the conference room who hadn't yet sat down ask me "So, how much do you want to make?"
Tell the white lie. For a drafting job, bet in an alternative scenario or in a decent firm, you will not be paid well and opportunities may be limited, so bring on the "white lies." I knew better after a couple of years.
I think the firm would me more inclined to hire you if you told them that you plan to go back for your masters in a year or two. Often times, firms need some temporary assistance and would rather hire you temporarily than commit to hiring someone for a long-term permanent position.
how much is your integrity worth? a short term drafting job? a long career as someone who apparently can't really be trusted? perhaps some people consider it a relatively common commodity that isn't worth trading for much. personally, i prefer to think it's still useful to keep around.
i agree with med. its none of their business you maybe heading to grad school. plus work experience out weighs school at a rate of 5:1 =D
Say you are interested in continuing your education. You don't have to say when or where. That gives them notice, but in a way that makes you more serious about your profession. If you get the job, don't treat it like a temporary position, work your ass off. Maybe something really good will come out of it. Maybe not.
If you start by telling them it's a temporary thing for you, they are going to either show you the door or - if it fits their program - take you on as a temp and treat you accordingly.
how much is your integrity worth? a short term drafting job? a long career as someone who apparently can't really be trusted? perhaps some people consider it a relatively common commodity that isn't worth trading for much. personally, i prefer to think it's still useful to keep around.
I usually like the gist of your posts. However, I disagree here. I had a situation where I went on some interviews wanting to move between two fairly close metro areas, the latter of which is generally more desirable and where I was not living. I'd go there to interview, to find some hesitation because of the (easy moving truck) relocation, at a point in my career where I was very junior. The light bulb went on. I got a cell phone with that area code and had a friend there whose address I used to give the semblance of living in the area. I then got calls. I suited up at 4 am, got on the interstate, got the job offer, and was a committed employee. Can't really be trusted? Not in this case.
Look at it this way. You're fresh out of school and applying for a job that is on the fringe of your chosen profession at best. They aren't hiring you for your knowledge or skills, they're hiring you to push a mouse. In that capacity you are infinitely replaceable in this economy. If you leave in 4-5 months, what are they loosing in terms of their "investment" in you? It might not prove to be a useful reference down the road but again, you're drafting telcom details. Under different circumstances I might feel differently, but in this case I don't think it's that big a deal.
Look at it this way. You're fresh out of school and applying for a job that is on the fringe of your chosen profession at best. They aren't hiring you for your knowledge or skills, they're hiring you to push a mouse. In that capacity you are infinitely replaceable in this economy. If you leave in 4-5 months, what are they loosing in terms of their "investment" in you? It might not prove to be a useful reference down the road but again, you're drafting telcom details. Under different circumstances I might feel differently, but in this case I don't think it's that big a deal.
Absolutely. Lie. Don't tell them. There will be someone on stand-by to take that job. I knew a woman who came into a city who got employed by a crappy firm, and then got called by a good firm 5 months later. She went to the good firm. She left the 5 month sojourn off her resume. Being that she had 2 small children, that's how she was going to explain it. Between the two firms, she would have been an idiot NOT to go.
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