My office's computer lease is turning over, and our leasing company is trying to switch us from IBM to HP workstations. I don't really trust their recommendations, so I'm trying to do some more research here.
Nearly every other office I've worked in, and everyone I've asked, has used exclusively Dell machines. If we're looking at a 3-year lease, is there any reason to be concerned about using HP machines? I've heard bad things, but they all happened years ago.
Also, we should be converting the office almost entirely to Revit over the course of this lease. Aside from a dual-core processor and 2+ gigs of ram, what else should we be looking for? I feel as though the machines the leasing company is recommending aren't going to cut it now, let alone in three years. (Core Duo 2.4 Ghz; 2 GB Ram; 160 GB HD; GeForce 7950 512MB Dual DVI Video Card)
I think what you'll find it boils down to is who can give you the best deal.
HP is doing well with their consumer PC lines, but most of the folks I've talked to seem to think that dell offers more for less $$ when outfitting an office. It may depend on the size of your studio...big enough and HP may be willing to take a hit to get your business.
Dell always has their best deals end-of-quarter...particularly if it's been a bad quarter.
new processors come out January '08, so I'd wait if you can.
i run a hp (3+ years now), 2gigs (new) ram for revit '08. never a prlblem. in fact, i seem to have less issues than thoes running dells in the office...
leasing is just another way to finance the "acquisition" of business equipment ... it can be useful when you don't want to tie up a bunch of cash to acquire something that will be technologically obsolete in 3-4 years.
I've generally found leasing to be a more expensive form of financing than using bank credit. but some firms swear by it and continue to obtain access to their business equipment that way.
It also has accounting implications - i can't remember exactly why, but there's a tax/accounting reason most businesses lease a lot of their equipment.
It's deductible. I actually rent computers. Not only is deductible, doesnt tie up capital, but it's scalable (if I need a render farm for an animation renting 5 computers for a month is great, buying five computers to sit around all year for the 2 weeks I need them is a waste) and you've always got the latest greatest machines.
The other advantage in terms of not tying up capital is the upfront cost is less, if I need 5 computers and they cost $5000 dollars each I just don't have $25k to sink into it, but if I can rent them or lease them for a low monthly payment I can come up with enough cash to do that. It allows you to run a bigger more productive business and take on larger more profitable projects than you would otherwise.
I don't rent all my machines I have a couple that I own out right, but I rent to supplement, leasing isn't really an option for an operation as small as mine.
As far as IBM vs. HP. It's possible to get a comparably good system from either manufacturer. IBM uses the most US made parts of any manufacturer (whatever that is worth) which is probably why their prices tend to be higher, but beyond that a surprising amount of the components in the various manuf. systems that come from the same source. You really have to go through and custom build them which ever way you want and compare prices and the level of service included.
Overall I think those machines sound alright I'd make sure the motherboard can accept more than 2 gigs of ram as I'd hope that in two years we'll all be running 64 bit OS and want to take advantage of that. The video cards seem good, though the GeForce are Direct3D which is great for Max, but not as great for most other apps. I don't know about Revit specifically so I'd check on that, most Workstation cards are designed for OpenGL like the Quadros (personally I like the Geforce, but I use 3DSMax).
The processors seem decent but really it depends on which Duo you're talking about but at the moment the Q6600-6700 seem to be the best bang for the buck. The Dells do seem to be the cheapest for the same machine and that's probably a reflection of the source of thier components combined with thier volume of over 30% of the US market.
My dad's company sells computers (cash registers) to grocery stores all through the south, mid west, and so-cal. 95% of his clients lease. It works out well for both parties. Typically the companies will lease the lane computers (cash registers) and printers, and then buy the actual office computers for accounting/inventory/etc. out right.
That way they don't have to tie up capital, warranty issues are much simpler, and according to lease agreements every 1-5 years they get new machines.
My dad's company gets amazing discounts on the computer because of the volume they sell with this kind of set up, and they are able to pass the savings on to their customers.
As far as HP vs Dell, I can't say much. My school has a deal set up with Dell, which is what I use. I've had very few issues with my Dell in the past 2.5 years. And when an issue comes up I just get on the support chat, and that seems to be the ticket for getting things done. I'm not really a fan of their phone support.
Concerning Revit, I've recently become a believer. My condocs class this semester was Revit based. There was a pretty steep learning curve, but once I got used to it, it really saved me hours on my studio work.
And just so we're clear, Vista blows. Its kind of like Microsoft's poor attempt at OSX, except it takes up too much memory, and the security checks are a major pain in the ass. I put Vista on my computer at the end of the summer. It took me 2 hours to install ACAD. I decided to 86 that plan, and went back to XP after a week.
hp/ibm/dell have little bewteen them on the hw side except when you start going into the h/e enterprise stuff, where dell starts to suffer a little.
dell will beat anyone on price - show them another quote and they will beat it. they are brutal and take no prisoners if the contract is juicy enough. so your obligation is to squeeze them for every cent. playing all three against each other is your best bet (but can be long winded - higher discounts are approved higher up in the food chain, so the process can be a bit dull)
hw breaks all the time, so just get nbd support over the lease period.
HP Desktops/BIM
My office's computer lease is turning over, and our leasing company is trying to switch us from IBM to HP workstations. I don't really trust their recommendations, so I'm trying to do some more research here.
Nearly every other office I've worked in, and everyone I've asked, has used exclusively Dell machines. If we're looking at a 3-year lease, is there any reason to be concerned about using HP machines? I've heard bad things, but they all happened years ago.
Also, we should be converting the office almost entirely to Revit over the course of this lease. Aside from a dual-core processor and 2+ gigs of ram, what else should we be looking for? I feel as though the machines the leasing company is recommending aren't going to cut it now, let alone in three years. (Core Duo 2.4 Ghz; 2 GB Ram; 160 GB HD; GeForce 7950 512MB Dual DVI Video Card)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I think what you'll find it boils down to is who can give you the best deal.
HP is doing well with their consumer PC lines, but most of the folks I've talked to seem to think that dell offers more for less $$ when outfitting an office. It may depend on the size of your studio...big enough and HP may be willing to take a hit to get your business.
Dell always has their best deals end-of-quarter...particularly if it's been a bad quarter.
new processors come out January '08, so I'd wait if you can.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9070
oh, and avoid vista for at least another year.
I don't understand. XP seems to be just fine. I've heard nothing but bad things about Vista.
Jerk,
i run a hp (3+ years now), 2gigs (new) ram for revit '08. never a prlblem. in fact, i seem to have less issues than thoes running dells in the office...
AVOID VISTA LIKE THE PLAGUE.
vista is the plague. avoid it
why would one lease computers?
leasing is just another way to finance the "acquisition" of business equipment ... it can be useful when you don't want to tie up a bunch of cash to acquire something that will be technologically obsolete in 3-4 years.
I've generally found leasing to be a more expensive form of financing than using bank credit. but some firms swear by it and continue to obtain access to their business equipment that way.
It also has accounting implications - i can't remember exactly why, but there's a tax/accounting reason most businesses lease a lot of their equipment.
It's deductible. I actually rent computers. Not only is deductible, doesnt tie up capital, but it's scalable (if I need a render farm for an animation renting 5 computers for a month is great, buying five computers to sit around all year for the 2 weeks I need them is a waste) and you've always got the latest greatest machines.
The other advantage in terms of not tying up capital is the upfront cost is less, if I need 5 computers and they cost $5000 dollars each I just don't have $25k to sink into it, but if I can rent them or lease them for a low monthly payment I can come up with enough cash to do that. It allows you to run a bigger more productive business and take on larger more profitable projects than you would otherwise.
I don't rent all my machines I have a couple that I own out right, but I rent to supplement, leasing isn't really an option for an operation as small as mine.
As far as IBM vs. HP. It's possible to get a comparably good system from either manufacturer. IBM uses the most US made parts of any manufacturer (whatever that is worth) which is probably why their prices tend to be higher, but beyond that a surprising amount of the components in the various manuf. systems that come from the same source. You really have to go through and custom build them which ever way you want and compare prices and the level of service included.
Overall I think those machines sound alright I'd make sure the motherboard can accept more than 2 gigs of ram as I'd hope that in two years we'll all be running 64 bit OS and want to take advantage of that. The video cards seem good, though the GeForce are Direct3D which is great for Max, but not as great for most other apps. I don't know about Revit specifically so I'd check on that, most Workstation cards are designed for OpenGL like the Quadros (personally I like the Geforce, but I use 3DSMax).
The processors seem decent but really it depends on which Duo you're talking about but at the moment the Q6600-6700 seem to be the best bang for the buck. The Dells do seem to be the cheapest for the same machine and that's probably a reflection of the source of thier components combined with thier volume of over 30% of the US market.
My dad's company sells computers (cash registers) to grocery stores all through the south, mid west, and so-cal. 95% of his clients lease. It works out well for both parties. Typically the companies will lease the lane computers (cash registers) and printers, and then buy the actual office computers for accounting/inventory/etc. out right.
That way they don't have to tie up capital, warranty issues are much simpler, and according to lease agreements every 1-5 years they get new machines.
My dad's company gets amazing discounts on the computer because of the volume they sell with this kind of set up, and they are able to pass the savings on to their customers.
As far as HP vs Dell, I can't say much. My school has a deal set up with Dell, which is what I use. I've had very few issues with my Dell in the past 2.5 years. And when an issue comes up I just get on the support chat, and that seems to be the ticket for getting things done. I'm not really a fan of their phone support.
Concerning Revit, I've recently become a believer. My condocs class this semester was Revit based. There was a pretty steep learning curve, but once I got used to it, it really saved me hours on my studio work.
And just so we're clear, Vista blows. Its kind of like Microsoft's poor attempt at OSX, except it takes up too much memory, and the security checks are a major pain in the ass. I put Vista on my computer at the end of the summer. It took me 2 hours to install ACAD. I decided to 86 that plan, and went back to XP after a week.
Best of luck to you.
hp/ibm/dell have little bewteen them on the hw side except when you start going into the h/e enterprise stuff, where dell starts to suffer a little.
dell will beat anyone on price - show them another quote and they will beat it. they are brutal and take no prisoners if the contract is juicy enough. so your obligation is to squeeze them for every cent. playing all three against each other is your best bet (but can be long winded - higher discounts are approved higher up in the food chain, so the process can be a bit dull)
hw breaks all the time, so just get nbd support over the lease period.
just out of curiosity, what's the price quoted for the system you list above in the op over a 3 year lease period?
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