This year our Unit is visiting New York with a focus on decadence. This can also include a counter-point to decadence and the relationship/contrast between the two states.
I've not been to NY since I was 10, so I was wondering if anybody could suggest particularly decadent areas/sites/sights in NY, or even particular areas where decadence and oppulence exists next to relative poverty? It's an incredibly decadent kind of place so the more poigniant and unusual the better, really. (As opposed to just pointing at Trump Tower!)
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I know there's a few New Yorkers out there.
Steven: it really depends on how you define decadence.
Perhaps removing the undesired people from the more 'touristy' parts of town is decadent in itself? Maybe it implies a desire to enjoy the city in a more gentrified manner than it can naturally supply? - Merely moving the problems elsewhere for instant gratification, rather than trying to solve them through long term strategies.
in all honesty olden, in this day and age the entire city is pretty much gentrified and decadent. I amazed people can afford to live here, because i pretty much can't.
oldenvirginia, this topic is interesting, but without more to focus the discussion it will be difficult for this thread to be anything more than a series of tangents that may or may not be of particular use to your investigation. decadence could be discussed relative to any number of things in nyc. perhaps you can offer us something to focus this discussion...a geographic area (neighborhood), a specific phenomenon, a program type...something for us to relate the concept of decadence to...
...
where do you go to school? will you visit the city as part of your studio?
Oct 11, 07 2:53 pm ·
·
Bloomingdale's
is still open, isn't it?
Or there's always DIY decadence like going to Barney's and fart in all the right places.
AP - I get your point, but that's really why I began by asking just for possible locations in New York that might reflect a level of decadence. I didn't want this to become a discussion about how we interpret the term 'decedence' because that's something that will guide my project and is my own responsibility (in other words, I'm not asking you guys to come up with a project idea for me).
Now, I am aware that for people to suggest areas/examples of decadence, their interpretation of the term itself will of course come into play, however rather than dwell on this, I think it should suffice to say that I mean 'decadence' in the literal sense: 'unrestrained or excessive self-indulgence (which may lead to moral of physical decay)'. That rough meaning I think most of us would take to be the general understanding of the term.
This is a studio trip. I imagine we'll be pretty central but if there's anything particularly interesting travelling is always an option. We should be going some time between November and January, and we'll be coming from the Bartlett.
PS. If anyone prefers a more specific request (I'm looking at you, AP ;), then could you please suggest any examples in NY of the following: gentleman's clubs/cigar shops/humidor makers/seller etc as this is the basis of my project.
oldenvirginia, I think your best bet is to start around the area of 57th & 5th Ave. and walk north along Central Park. This area is CPE (Central Park East)-relatively old money neighborhood. Farther north is the Museum Mile. Also, Check out the area east- Lexington Ave. and of course Park Ave. Email me if you have any further questions...cheers!
Go to the newly renovated Plaza Hotel and ask to see the apartments on the top floors. They might even show you in as they have just been finished and are probably not occupied yet.
I'd say any Soho cafe at around noon or 1:00 on a weekday. You could document all the rich kids talking on iphones wearing prada sweats getting over a weeknight hangover. I think this demographic is underseverd by architecture.
In terms of UK style member's only clubs, there is the NYC location of Soho House in the Meatpacking. It's member's only, though, so you'll probably need to know someone to get it. There's the Gramercy Park Hotel, which is relatively new, but has that decadent feel to it - interiors by Julian Schnabel. It's big w/ the fashion crowd.
For dept. stores-definitely Bendel's. For nightlife, Serge Becker's The Box which is a return of the old-world cabaret. Big w/celebs. Again, entry is tough.
Whole NYC is decadent. If you want a place to start just stroll down Bond St. (Nolita) check the buildings and then go to a site like corcoran.com and check for how much a one bedroom goes these days. My bets are that you wont find anything for less than 2.5mill and common charge fees for less than 3 grand monthly (on top of your mortgage of 12k monthly of course!).
Decadent enough?
Gramercy Park is a good example, sanofiSYN; it used to be a gated park that could only be accessed by residents of the area
Apurimac,
I am spending most of my time in Downtown LA these days (Tumbles loft in the 'arts district'). It is kind of funny having all of this $$$ in the middle of what was once (and still is) a pretty desolate area. There are individual buildings that house enormous amounts of wealth (which have pools, delis, resturants, etc in them) surrounded by nothingness. The developers of these buildings are trying to create introverted, walled oasis so that the residents of the area dont have to interact with their surroundings what-so-ever.
I think in many respects that these developments are proving to be very detrimental to the re-development (if you will) of Downtown LA. Because everything is market driven, only the very wealthy can really afford to move down here anymore ('artists lofts' start in the low $500,000's). Small mom + pop operations (which the city needs) cannot afford the rents that these developers demand. There really isnt the ability for an infastructure to develop under the current free capitalist real estate model in urban areas like downtown LA....
The Gallardo (owned by either Ziggy or Rohan Marley) is f'in sweet, though
sounds rough Mdler, frankly i've always wondered where poor folks go when the rich folks move it. In NYC's case i can only assume New Jersey, which I myself may be moving to, (note BKboy's loft comment).
And where the heck do all these wealthy yuppies come from any way?
For old school restrained opulence go to the restaurant/lounge at the Carlyle hotel, or visit the Gramercy Park area... for nouveau rich decadence go to any of Ian Schragers' hotels...and for Euro-trash decadence visit the Rivington hotel...
Funny, all the lofts in Manhattan are being bought by Europeans because the dollar is so weak. Apparently a Manhattan loft is half the cost of a London one.
I think i should get into the porn industry. i wanna direct.
Gramercy Park is still reisdents only unless you visit the Ian Schrager Gramercy Park Hotel where you get keys if you stay in one of the suites for 1,000+ dollars a night.
However for the Rio de Janerio experience of rich/poor visit the stretch from 96th st to 110th st on the East side. You go from 30 Million dollar duplexes to mutli family hell holes.
Other places of interest Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, the fringes of Williamsburg, and parts of the Bronx like Riverside.
I also think the Lower East Side has some of this left too. I went to a dinner the other night that cost each person in the party 250 dollars and then we walked out the front door onto Clinton St where you find the homeless and drunk frat boys/girls passed out on the sidewalk, very 1980's NY.
Decadence in New York
This year our Unit is visiting New York with a focus on decadence. This can also include a counter-point to decadence and the relationship/contrast between the two states.
I've not been to NY since I was 10, so I was wondering if anybody could suggest particularly decadent areas/sites/sights in NY, or even particular areas where decadence and oppulence exists next to relative poverty? It's an incredibly decadent kind of place so the more poigniant and unusual the better, really. (As opposed to just pointing at Trump Tower!)
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I know there's a few New Yorkers out there.
Cheers
i thought robert stern cleaned up times square/42nd st and giuliani cleaned up the rest? there's not any decadence left, is there?
maybe there is more.
Steven: it really depends on how you define decadence.
Perhaps removing the undesired people from the more 'touristy' parts of town is decadent in itself? Maybe it implies a desire to enjoy the city in a more gentrified manner than it can naturally supply? - Merely moving the problems elsewhere for instant gratification, rather than trying to solve them through long term strategies.
well now you're verging on being serious...
i've always thought that the earthroom was pretty decadent
in all honesty olden, in this day and age the entire city is pretty much gentrified and decadent. I amazed people can afford to live here, because i pretty much can't.
its called LA
good to know someone else is feelin' the pain.
oldenvirginia, this topic is interesting, but without more to focus the discussion it will be difficult for this thread to be anything more than a series of tangents that may or may not be of particular use to your investigation. decadence could be discussed relative to any number of things in nyc. perhaps you can offer us something to focus this discussion...a geographic area (neighborhood), a specific phenomenon, a program type...something for us to relate the concept of decadence to...
...
where do you go to school? will you visit the city as part of your studio?
is still open, isn't it?
Or there's always DIY decadence like going to Barney's and fart in all the right places.
AP - I get your point, but that's really why I began by asking just for possible locations in New York that might reflect a level of decadence. I didn't want this to become a discussion about how we interpret the term 'decedence' because that's something that will guide my project and is my own responsibility (in other words, I'm not asking you guys to come up with a project idea for me).
Now, I am aware that for people to suggest areas/examples of decadence, their interpretation of the term itself will of course come into play, however rather than dwell on this, I think it should suffice to say that I mean 'decadence' in the literal sense: 'unrestrained or excessive self-indulgence (which may lead to moral of physical decay)'. That rough meaning I think most of us would take to be the general understanding of the term.
This is a studio trip. I imagine we'll be pretty central but if there's anything particularly interesting travelling is always an option. We should be going some time between November and January, and we'll be coming from the Bartlett.
PS. If anyone prefers a more specific request (I'm looking at you, AP ;), then could you please suggest any examples in NY of the following: gentleman's clubs/cigar shops/humidor makers/seller etc as this is the basis of my project.
Again, thanks.
...and I mean gentleman's clubs in the traditional UK sense (leather sofas, card games, brandy, cigars etc) rather than strip clubs.
yale club comes to mind...
By decadence I thought you were implying donkey show, my bad.
oldenvirginia, I think your best bet is to start around the area of 57th & 5th Ave. and walk north along Central Park. This area is CPE (Central Park East)-relatively old money neighborhood. Farther north is the Museum Mile. Also, Check out the area east- Lexington Ave. and of course Park Ave. Email me if you have any further questions...cheers!
i have found myself living in a yuppie slum these days...
the street is literally the following - Porsche GT3 - homeless guy - Lamborghini Gallardo - homeless guy - Range Rover - homeless guy
you get the point
"I came here for experience, right?
Go to the newly renovated Plaza Hotel and ask to see the apartments on the top floors. They might even show you in as they have just been finished and are probably not occupied yet.
thanks puddles,rozzz,mdler,staghorn... that's great info!
few eras could be considered as decadent as the gilded age and who were the architects of the gilded age? why mckim, mead, and white, of course.
You can find a lot of good examples of decadence/poverty in Brooklyn. Try Flatbush Ave and Bed-Stuy for starters.
just hangout outside an Upper East Side prep school
I'd say any Soho cafe at around noon or 1:00 on a weekday. You could document all the rich kids talking on iphones wearing prada sweats getting over a weeknight hangover. I think this demographic is underseverd by architecture.
mdler, your 'hood sounds like the pits.
flashpan,
are you sure those kids aren't architects?
The Met, of course.
http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/
Try The Art of Shaving shop on Madison.
In terms of UK style member's only clubs, there is the NYC location of Soho House in the Meatpacking. It's member's only, though, so you'll probably need to know someone to get it. There's the Gramercy Park Hotel, which is relatively new, but has that decadent feel to it - interiors by Julian Schnabel. It's big w/ the fashion crowd.
For dept. stores-definitely Bendel's. For nightlife, Serge Becker's The Box which is a return of the old-world cabaret. Big w/celebs. Again, entry is tough.
Whole NYC is decadent. If you want a place to start just stroll down Bond St. (Nolita) check the buildings and then go to a site like corcoran.com and check for how much a one bedroom goes these days. My bets are that you wont find anything for less than 2.5mill and common charge fees for less than 3 grand monthly (on top of your mortgage of 12k monthly of course!).
Decadent enough?
Gramercy Park is a good example, sanofiSYN; it used to be a gated park that could only be accessed by residents of the area
Apurimac,
I am spending most of my time in Downtown LA these days (Tumbles loft in the 'arts district'). It is kind of funny having all of this $$$ in the middle of what was once (and still is) a pretty desolate area. There are individual buildings that house enormous amounts of wealth (which have pools, delis, resturants, etc in them) surrounded by nothingness. The developers of these buildings are trying to create introverted, walled oasis so that the residents of the area dont have to interact with their surroundings what-so-ever.
I think in many respects that these developments are proving to be very detrimental to the re-development (if you will) of Downtown LA. Because everything is market driven, only the very wealthy can really afford to move down here anymore ('artists lofts' start in the low $500,000's). Small mom + pop operations (which the city needs) cannot afford the rents that these developers demand. There really isnt the ability for an infastructure to develop under the current free capitalist real estate model in urban areas like downtown LA....
The Gallardo (owned by either Ziggy or Rohan Marley) is f'in sweet, though
used to be?
wish I could get a loft for only 500K.
NY=decadent VA=non-decadent? really?
Is the NY Public Library decadent? It's luxurious, but it's public...
sounds rough Mdler, frankly i've always wondered where poor folks go when the rich folks move it. In NYC's case i can only assume New Jersey, which I myself may be moving to, (note BKboy's loft comment).
And where the heck do all these wealthy yuppies come from any way?
Apurimac
they are either a) in the porn industry or b) asian
apparently all of the new lofts in downton LA are being bought up by the Koreans for investment purposes
For old school restrained opulence go to the restaurant/lounge at the Carlyle hotel, or visit the Gramercy Park area... for nouveau rich decadence go to any of Ian Schragers' hotels...and for Euro-trash decadence visit the Rivington hotel...
Funny, all the lofts in Manhattan are being bought by Europeans because the dollar is so weak. Apparently a Manhattan loft is half the cost of a London one.
I think i should get into the porn industry. i wanna direct.
Gramercy Park is still reisdents only unless you visit the Ian Schrager Gramercy Park Hotel where you get keys if you stay in one of the suites for 1,000+ dollars a night.
However for the Rio de Janerio experience of rich/poor visit the stretch from 96th st to 110th st on the East side. You go from 30 Million dollar duplexes to mutli family hell holes.
Other places of interest Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, the fringes of Williamsburg, and parts of the Bronx like Riverside.
I also think the Lower East Side has some of this left too. I went to a dinner the other night that cost each person in the party 250 dollars and then we walked out the front door onto Clinton St where you find the homeless and drunk frat boys/girls passed out on the sidewalk, very 1980's NY.
NYC = big apple
big apple ~ got adam and eve kicked out of the garden of eden
decadent enough?
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