Simultaneously disturbing and interesting, especially considering the controversy involving the displacement of one and a half million residents during the process and the parallels to totalitarian Berlin. You'd think Speer Jr. would tread lightly regarding projects of this type, or maybe not. The uniqueness of his situation as a designer (in dealing with his family legacy) perhaps makes it difficult to criticize his project selection. But still this is also difficult to come to terms with in terms of the historical parallels. If the goal of Beijing 2008 is for positive PR and the announcement of "the new Chinese century" then what is China thinking hiring Speer Jr. for this kind of urban planning work?
Albert Speer (Sr.) is among one of the most misunderstood architects and personalities in the history of architecture. Jr. should not have to suffer under this burden of conflict, but the principles of architecture that Speer had embedded in his working philosophy are still relevant, and yes monumentality, order, and the harmony of the parts to the whole are not irrelevant in democracy or totalitarianism.
misunderstood?
without #5 building his magnificently monumental constructs, where would hitler have been?
he was one of hitler's right hand men. he turned a blind eye to the "misgivings" of the third reich, merely so that he could be chief architect - and reap the awards, accolades and accomplishments of being hitler's architect.
he tried to make up for this, when he "joined" a resistance movement in the later years of the war to try and stop hitler. it wasn't until it was apparent the nazi's were en route to a global whooping that he did this, and only brought this up during his trial in nuremburg - there was little proof, but this statement is what eltimately allowed him to avoid the death penalty.
he was as megolonomiacal as hitler himself. and even stated thus.
he also wasn't just an architect, he was the armament and munitions minister and was highly efficient at this.
but yes, designing building that would intentionally make glorious ruins was one of his better accomplishments.
"Forward Comrades, We must go back" by Leon Krier states that Albert Speer was already planning the reconstruction of Europe (after a German victory) and was already developing these within a modern language for its ability to integrate mass production, speed and rapid deployment. However, the article also proposes the idea that if the war had continued and modernism had begun to project the image of Nazi Germany, would we now be more comfortable with classicism? Did we all out reject it because it was so obviously a symbol of Nazi Germany? Was modernism so opposite in image and concept that we had no choice to embrace it (and its disasterous urban concequences) to remove all connection with the Third Reich. What architect does not put the old Penn Station and the Chancellory in the same category?
me. the chancellory was about projecting the power of new germany while penn station was a temple to public transit/public life - made for the people of the city. essentially different.
Are you really going to hold Speer Jr. responsible for the actions of his father? Before you go pointing fingers, it's worth noting that it's this kind of irrational thinking that led to much persecution of the Jews in the first place (as historical 'Christ killers'). Can't you just judge an individual by his own actions and leave the legacy of blood lines behind?
The comparison was about the senseless destruction of a work of architecture to promote an ideology. The destruction of Penn Station was as much economic as it was the destruction of classicism. The destruction of the Chancellory was also grounded in its symbolic value ignoring its architectural value. And yes, Jr. had nothing to do with this.
if it wasn't for exnazis we would have never beaten the commies to the moon. the fact that werner von braun was in charge of the german rocket program which was built by slave labor(thousands of whom died under von braun's charge) was conveniently brushed aside as the evidence was "misplaced" for a few decades...
oh, and from the culturati wannabe...
"For deep in every revolution, discreetly hidden, resides a classicism, which is a form of constant.- Amedee Ozenfant
how many architects today still turn a blind eye to their client's activities? Let's not be hasty in dismissing Jr's abilities here. And besides, monumentality and order are exactly what is called for here.
and regardless -- the son is not the father and should not be held prisoner by his shadow, however large or ominous.
(unless it's a Bush and he's worse -- in which case we should "elect" him twice)
yeah, vado - a few thousand deaths... totally worth winning the moon race for. I mean, who could have predicted the moon landing would be so useful in our everyday lives.
Can't you just judge an individual by his own actions and leave the legacy of blood lines behind? maybe you can, but i can't. if that were the case, there wouldn't be outstanding politicians like george w. bush.
i'm not holding albert jr. responsible for what his father did. but i do think he knows his father's place in history and really shouldn't try and out do it. i take umbrage with the fact he views displacing 1.5 million people as a way of bringing beijing from an ancient city to a modern one. frankly, it looks a lot like he's trying to do something "bigger and better" than his father - which to me is incomrehensible.
the article also makes it seem the chinese are in fact gushing that there is a direct link to nazi architecture and their planning for the olympics.
So why is this group not jumping on Rem and Herzog's neck for working for the Chinese? Wont they be responsible for the most emblimatic symbols of today's most notorious totalitarian state?
holz - I'll make my point again as you seem to have scraped over it: It works both ways. You judging Speer Jr in the context of his father's actions is directly comparable to judging a modern day Jewish individual by the alleged actions of his religious ancestors. You say he is 'trying to do something "bigger and better" than his father' - honestly, I think you just want that to be true and are using family links to sex up your concerns with his project.
Separately, those concerns are fine but, as Maestro says, he should then be judged alongside his peers (who are doing similar things), not as a continuation of his father's spirit. For all you know he might have been a stranger to his father, is feeling deeply ashamed of his family's past and is taking it upon himself to ensure that the Chinese project is done well. I'm not saying that *is* the situation, i'm just pointing out the alternatives that exist. And until you know otherwise, they should be considered equally possible. Basically, don't judge his intentions based on your own assumptions.
olden
speer (sr) helped set into motion a machine that led to the extermination of several million people. how that compares to the biased history of the bible and a few religious "scholars" is frankly, irrelevant and a terrible argument that i'd expect to hear from falwell or pat robertson.
speer (jr.) is helping to assist a machine that has killed a large number of people, imprisoned journalists that don't toe the line, forced relocation of millions of people, silenced dissent, etc. etc.
in terms of peers, i know of no architects taking on projects that will force 1.5 million people out of their homes, but by al means i'm up for being re-educated.
i view albert speer (se) as an enabler of hitler, and it seems his son is following a similar suit, going down the route of enabling an authoritarian regime that with a disregard for human life or human rights, that shouldn't even be hosting the olympics, just like '36.
i find neither sexy, i find it beyond coincidence.
Architects are some of the most two-faced people on the planet.
We bitch incessantly of totalitarian states and the "evil" things that go on there while simultaniously selling out at the first chance we get to work for said entities. Our megalomaniacal, batshit-insane flights of fancy can only be achieved by clients who are inherently totalitarian. I don't blame Speer Sr. for working for Hitler, racism against Jews was rampant in Europe and America in the 30's. If architects want to design cities and build really big, than Hitler was probably our perfect client, and the CCP is a good one to. Architecture with its constant and disgusting utopian idealizations is one of the most megalomanical professions i've ever seen. However, unlike our clients we have no real power to affect change, our change is always achieved through our clients.
As for your post above holz, watch who you point fingers at, the U.S. Government and its people directly and indirectly killed more Indians than Nazi Germany killed jews. As for your peers, well H&deM and many other architects are working on the same exact project.
i don't believe holz would dispute that ancestors of usa (the british, spanish and other colonial powers etc) did nasty shite. there is not a nation on this earth that has not done bad things to some people or other at some point. sadly.
speer jr i don't know much about. speer sr i only know from history books and recently from 'the edifice complex' which discusses how why and when architects have worked for the powerful nasties over the last century. as far as i can tell, speer was a good political animal, and a competent architect/planner at best...but generally untalented. he couldn't get into the studio he wanted to as a student and had to go classical, even though he didn't care for it so much at the time...and things just got worse from there on.
anyway, i think speer sr worked WITH hitler, not FOR him. a special situation, and one that is not exusable by rampant ant-semiticism around him at the time...idea that he was blamelessly caught up in historical sweep is absurd.
jr is a bit different as he is not leading member of chinese political machine, but effect is disturbingly similar. i don't know enough about situation to judge though. that chinese student at end of article said some crazy nonsense, but i also think speer makes a good point that he is trying to do something different and very likely would be apalled by the idea that hitler was a great artist...
sadly, the means are probably not justifiable for these particular ends. i hope it all will turn out for the better, but breath is not being held...
Speer Sr. was less a visionary artist than a brilliant manager. His claim to fame was that he built the Chancellery in record time. While the design served its purpose, it was a background building in comparison to later plans and both Hitler and Speer assumed this. Hitler took notice of his ability to get things done and used his talents, when the time came, to organize all of German industry and consequently prolong the war for up to two additional years, Speer's brilliance being more managerial than artistic. Speaking of artistic, Speer's Germania exercise not only required the relocation of tens of thousands of people, many of them Jews, that he knew, or admitted obliquely late in life that he knew, were destined for camps, but also required the covering up of the river Spree by the Gross Halle, a building so out of scale and so large as to belie any connection to the classical tradition. On aesthethic grounds alone Speer was not that great nor innovative and many of his peers at the time who also utilized the same languages were far better. he was mostly XL with no finesse. I have always thought that the best building he ever did was his own, very small, in comparison to the rest of his productions, house where Albert Jr. probably lived. Speer Sr. was delusional not only about his talent but he also was convinced at one point that he was Hitler's successor and never joined any coherent plot to dispose his master. While it was true that he delayed the destruction of industrial infrastructure in the last months of the war, it was mostly another delusional attempt to place himself in a position to be Germany's natural post-war leader. He assumed the Americans would be interested (knew the Russians would not be) and surrendered to them only to be somewhat surprised and hurt when they instead tried him.
As for Speer Jr., you can not help but wonder what he is thinking about. Does memory serve no purpose? One of the most successful corporate architects in Germany, he certainly has the right to design what he wants and in this case I believe it was the winning entry to an international competition. In essence the the Chinese got the plan and consequently the man. The Chinese were interested in projecting a symbolic power and Speer's axis does this. Is the axis modulated by any mitigating factors that create a sense of scale and humanity. This is probably the correct question from an architectural view point and I am not sure of the answer. As for the father, the answer is clear, almost never, and as a consequence, his place in architectural history will be more one of curiosity, an example of modernism gone mad, then of enduring architectural quality (no matter what Leon Krier says).
good post jk. Personally i never liked Speer Sr.'s stuff. I just don't believe we can blame the son for the sins of the father. Not to mention, Beijing already has 1 major north south access that was built by Totalitarian megalomaniacs and has huge political importance: the main north-south axis that bisects the forbidden city and contains Tiananmen sq.
Aug 13, 07 11:56 am ·
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Albert Speer designs Olympic city... for 2008
"Hitler architect’s son redraws Beijing - Albert Speer designs Olympic city"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2241705.ece
Simultaneously disturbing and interesting, especially considering the controversy involving the displacement of one and a half million residents during the process and the parallels to totalitarian Berlin. You'd think Speer Jr. would tread lightly regarding projects of this type, or maybe not. The uniqueness of his situation as a designer (in dealing with his family legacy) perhaps makes it difficult to criticize his project selection. But still this is also difficult to come to terms with in terms of the historical parallels. If the goal of Beijing 2008 is for positive PR and the announcement of "the new Chinese century" then what is China thinking hiring Speer Jr. for this kind of urban planning work?
ol' al jr. has some mighty fucked up shoes to fill...
Albert Speer (Sr.) is among one of the most misunderstood architects and personalities in the history of architecture. Jr. should not have to suffer under this burden of conflict, but the principles of architecture that Speer had embedded in his working philosophy are still relevant, and yes monumentality, order, and the harmony of the parts to the whole are not irrelevant in democracy or totalitarianism.
misunderstood?
without #5 building his magnificently monumental constructs, where would hitler have been?
he was one of hitler's right hand men. he turned a blind eye to the "misgivings" of the third reich, merely so that he could be chief architect - and reap the awards, accolades and accomplishments of being hitler's architect.
he tried to make up for this, when he "joined" a resistance movement in the later years of the war to try and stop hitler. it wasn't until it was apparent the nazi's were en route to a global whooping that he did this, and only brought this up during his trial in nuremburg - there was little proof, but this statement is what eltimately allowed him to avoid the death penalty.
he was as megolonomiacal as hitler himself. and even stated thus.
he also wasn't just an architect, he was the armament and munitions minister and was highly efficient at this.
but yes, designing building that would intentionally make glorious ruins was one of his better accomplishments.
*megalomaniacal
"Forward Comrades, We must go back" by Leon Krier states that Albert Speer was already planning the reconstruction of Europe (after a German victory) and was already developing these within a modern language for its ability to integrate mass production, speed and rapid deployment. However, the article also proposes the idea that if the war had continued and modernism had begun to project the image of Nazi Germany, would we now be more comfortable with classicism? Did we all out reject it because it was so obviously a symbol of Nazi Germany? Was modernism so opposite in image and concept that we had no choice to embrace it (and its disasterous urban concequences) to remove all connection with the Third Reich. What architect does not put the old Penn Station and the Chancellory in the same category?
me. the chancellory was about projecting the power of new germany while penn station was a temple to public transit/public life - made for the people of the city. essentially different.
Are you really going to hold Speer Jr. responsible for the actions of his father? Before you go pointing fingers, it's worth noting that it's this kind of irrational thinking that led to much persecution of the Jews in the first place (as historical 'Christ killers'). Can't you just judge an individual by his own actions and leave the legacy of blood lines behind?
yep.
The comparison was about the senseless destruction of a work of architecture to promote an ideology. The destruction of Penn Station was as much economic as it was the destruction of classicism. The destruction of the Chancellory was also grounded in its symbolic value ignoring its architectural value. And yes, Jr. had nothing to do with this.
if it wasn't for exnazis we would have never beaten the commies to the moon. the fact that werner von braun was in charge of the german rocket program which was built by slave labor(thousands of whom died under von braun's charge) was conveniently brushed aside as the evidence was "misplaced" for a few decades...
oh, and from the culturati wannabe...
"For deep in every revolution, discreetly hidden, resides a classicism, which is a form of constant.- Amedee Ozenfant
how many architects today still turn a blind eye to their client's activities? Let's not be hasty in dismissing Jr's abilities here. And besides, monumentality and order are exactly what is called for here.
and regardless -- the son is not the father and should not be held prisoner by his shadow, however large or ominous.
(unless it's a Bush and he's worse -- in which case we should "elect" him twice)
yeah, vado - a few thousand deaths... totally worth winning the moon race for. I mean, who could have predicted the moon landing would be so useful in our everyday lives.
Can't you just judge an individual by his own actions and leave the legacy of blood lines behind? maybe you can, but i can't. if that were the case, there wouldn't be outstanding politicians like george w. bush.
i'm not holding albert jr. responsible for what his father did. but i do think he knows his father's place in history and really shouldn't try and out do it. i take umbrage with the fact he views displacing 1.5 million people as a way of bringing beijing from an ancient city to a modern one. frankly, it looks a lot like he's trying to do something "bigger and better" than his father - which to me is incomrehensible.
the article also makes it seem the chinese are in fact gushing that there is a direct link to nazi architecture and their planning for the olympics.
So why is this group not jumping on Rem and Herzog's neck for working for the Chinese? Wont they be responsible for the most emblimatic symbols of today's most notorious totalitarian state?
we kicked that dog to death already maestro.
Cant wait then until we blow up the Bird's Nest "nuremburg style" in the future.
holz - I'll make my point again as you seem to have scraped over it: It works both ways. You judging Speer Jr in the context of his father's actions is directly comparable to judging a modern day Jewish individual by the alleged actions of his religious ancestors. You say he is 'trying to do something "bigger and better" than his father' - honestly, I think you just want that to be true and are using family links to sex up your concerns with his project.
Separately, those concerns are fine but, as Maestro says, he should then be judged alongside his peers (who are doing similar things), not as a continuation of his father's spirit. For all you know he might have been a stranger to his father, is feeling deeply ashamed of his family's past and is taking it upon himself to ensure that the Chinese project is done well. I'm not saying that *is* the situation, i'm just pointing out the alternatives that exist. And until you know otherwise, they should be considered equally possible. Basically, don't judge his intentions based on your own assumptions.
some culturati wannabe had this to say about starchitects in china over on the rem/eisenman discuss "urgent by foreigner" thread...
and it goes a little like thees...
"i wonder how many starchitect's instant icons will be spared in the war between the u.s. and china that will happen in approximately 2033 a.d.? "
olden
speer (sr) helped set into motion a machine that led to the extermination of several million people. how that compares to the biased history of the bible and a few religious "scholars" is frankly, irrelevant and a terrible argument that i'd expect to hear from falwell or pat robertson.
speer (jr.) is helping to assist a machine that has killed a large number of people, imprisoned journalists that don't toe the line, forced relocation of millions of people, silenced dissent, etc. etc.
in terms of peers, i know of no architects taking on projects that will force 1.5 million people out of their homes, but by al means i'm up for being re-educated.
i view albert speer (se) as an enabler of hitler, and it seems his son is following a similar suit, going down the route of enabling an authoritarian regime that with a disregard for human life or human rights, that shouldn't even be hosting the olympics, just like '36.
i find neither sexy, i find it beyond coincidence.
Architects are some of the most two-faced people on the planet.
We bitch incessantly of totalitarian states and the "evil" things that go on there while simultaniously selling out at the first chance we get to work for said entities. Our megalomaniacal, batshit-insane flights of fancy can only be achieved by clients who are inherently totalitarian. I don't blame Speer Sr. for working for Hitler, racism against Jews was rampant in Europe and America in the 30's. If architects want to design cities and build really big, than Hitler was probably our perfect client, and the CCP is a good one to. Architecture with its constant and disgusting utopian idealizations is one of the most megalomanical professions i've ever seen. However, unlike our clients we have no real power to affect change, our change is always achieved through our clients.
As for your post above holz, watch who you point fingers at, the U.S. Government and its people directly and indirectly killed more Indians than Nazi Germany killed jews. As for your peers, well H&deM and many other architects are working on the same exact project.
i don't believe holz would dispute that ancestors of usa (the british, spanish and other colonial powers etc) did nasty shite. there is not a nation on this earth that has not done bad things to some people or other at some point. sadly.
speer jr i don't know much about. speer sr i only know from history books and recently from 'the edifice complex' which discusses how why and when architects have worked for the powerful nasties over the last century. as far as i can tell, speer was a good political animal, and a competent architect/planner at best...but generally untalented. he couldn't get into the studio he wanted to as a student and had to go classical, even though he didn't care for it so much at the time...and things just got worse from there on.
anyway, i think speer sr worked WITH hitler, not FOR him. a special situation, and one that is not exusable by rampant ant-semiticism around him at the time...idea that he was blamelessly caught up in historical sweep is absurd.
jr is a bit different as he is not leading member of chinese political machine, but effect is disturbingly similar. i don't know enough about situation to judge though. that chinese student at end of article said some crazy nonsense, but i also think speer makes a good point that he is trying to do something different and very likely would be apalled by the idea that hitler was a great artist...
sadly, the means are probably not justifiable for these particular ends. i hope it all will turn out for the better, but breath is not being held...
it is also easy to see how a "visionary" architect would gladly hitch his wagon to a dictator's star to see his vision realized.
Speer Sr. was less a visionary artist than a brilliant manager. His claim to fame was that he built the Chancellery in record time. While the design served its purpose, it was a background building in comparison to later plans and both Hitler and Speer assumed this. Hitler took notice of his ability to get things done and used his talents, when the time came, to organize all of German industry and consequently prolong the war for up to two additional years, Speer's brilliance being more managerial than artistic. Speaking of artistic, Speer's Germania exercise not only required the relocation of tens of thousands of people, many of them Jews, that he knew, or admitted obliquely late in life that he knew, were destined for camps, but also required the covering up of the river Spree by the Gross Halle, a building so out of scale and so large as to belie any connection to the classical tradition. On aesthethic grounds alone Speer was not that great nor innovative and many of his peers at the time who also utilized the same languages were far better. he was mostly XL with no finesse. I have always thought that the best building he ever did was his own, very small, in comparison to the rest of his productions, house where Albert Jr. probably lived. Speer Sr. was delusional not only about his talent but he also was convinced at one point that he was Hitler's successor and never joined any coherent plot to dispose his master. While it was true that he delayed the destruction of industrial infrastructure in the last months of the war, it was mostly another delusional attempt to place himself in a position to be Germany's natural post-war leader. He assumed the Americans would be interested (knew the Russians would not be) and surrendered to them only to be somewhat surprised and hurt when they instead tried him.
As for Speer Jr., you can not help but wonder what he is thinking about. Does memory serve no purpose? One of the most successful corporate architects in Germany, he certainly has the right to design what he wants and in this case I believe it was the winning entry to an international competition. In essence the the Chinese got the plan and consequently the man. The Chinese were interested in projecting a symbolic power and Speer's axis does this. Is the axis modulated by any mitigating factors that create a sense of scale and humanity. This is probably the correct question from an architectural view point and I am not sure of the answer. As for the father, the answer is clear, almost never, and as a consequence, his place in architectural history will be more one of curiosity, an example of modernism gone mad, then of enduring architectural quality (no matter what Leon Krier says).
good post jk. Personally i never liked Speer Sr.'s stuff. I just don't believe we can blame the son for the sins of the father. Not to mention, Beijing already has 1 major north south access that was built by Totalitarian megalomaniacs and has huge political importance: the main north-south axis that bisects the forbidden city and contains Tiananmen sq.
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