$7.50/hr

we might as well be delivering pizza at Papa John's..

I guess it's hard to see because it's highlighted red (should be green? but then again that would throw off Archinect's whole identity, right?)

Just a heads up, ivy vs. state questions aren't taken lightly on this forum.

I had a feeling it was a touchy subject, just because money seems to be a touchy subject.

I'm new, tell me why the ivy vs. state questions aren't taken lightly.

Because about 200 people come on here every year asking how they can get into "an Ivy League School." They don't even seem to care which Ivy league school half the time, they just want that Ivy League brand name and give off the impression that it's the only thing they care about, not the quality of education.

I have a B.Arch from a non-ivy private U (that occasionally gets bashed on archinect), and the girl who sits next to me has an Ivy League M.Arch. We were hired around the same time - me directly after undergrad, her directly after grad school. I have more responsibility in the office, and frankly suspect that I make more than her based on some comments she's made. This leads me to believe that offices couldn't care less where your degree comes from, it's all about portfolio and experience.

your ivy league degree isnt going to get you any more money that your state degree...it is your performance and skill as an individual that will make you the money

call me crazy, but I would think that many people who graduate with masters from an ivy actually earn less than those from a state school..

my theory is that many of those that go to the ivy's end up working for small boutique or starchitect offices, many of which dont pay much. Those that go to the state schools, on the other hand, end up working for the local yocal schlock architect cranking out cd sets. They are effiecent and are making their company $$$, and are therefore paid a decent wage..

I could be full of shit, however

i go to cornell

i get paid less than min wage for my summer job

i am starting to feel like an architect lol

buy power tools and build some shit........

mdler, you make State U sound sooooo appealing! i am gonna go and cry now.

j/k

you, you trunk master.

my girlfriend has an uncle that went to an ivy league school for law, started out making 14k a year for a few years just out of school so her dad said screw law school and did something else that had a good pay rate just out of school, now her uncle makes over half a million just in base salary because he is a partner in a firm. my brother dropped out of CC after one semester, started a web marketing business, and now makes more than most architects who are partners in their firm.

i think the only way to really make money is being a partner or having your own firm, or else you will just be a monkey making monkey pay no matter what schooling you have.

its really all about what you do with your education and not where you got it, but going to schools like harvard, columbia, cornell, berkeley, etc....definitely give you head start and better connections, things without immediate quantitative value(which seem to go extremely undervalued in the minds of many), and columbia and mit and some others give you direct access to top development programs, which was my sales point to go ivy over other less expensive schools...
my point is, if you plan on doing something on your own, paying more for school could be worth it, but if you plan to be a monkey forever, dont waste your money. and can we end this whole "ivy" vs "non ivy" thing, there are so many other really good and expensive schools that are not ivy but just the same, and out of state tuition for some of the top state schools is still a lot of money.

money talks, but it dont sing

hahaha, $14,000 a year in law!?! when did this uncle graduate? in 1932? i have 2 friends who are lawyers....one is making $100,000 and the other a little over $200,000....they both graduated a few years ago.

keep in mind this was like 20 to 30 years ago

as discussed above it won't matter too much where your degree is from... your salary will depend most on the type of firm that you go to work for... for some more salary information check out the forbidden thread...

ivies get you interviews - thats were there benefit ends for most people;

if your really into making money - stay local, leverage your family connects, your local reputatation and become a part of the comunity your from, it takes years to grow roots and you'd be surprised at some of the good work you can still get even in the middle of Iowastan or Indianastan or southern Illinoisabuti

i would like to know how many people here bashing the ivies actually went to them, and how many just happen to know one or two at their office making the same amount at the time. it seems a lot of dont only think its a bad idea to go, but you have a lot of contempt for them at the same time, its kind of disturbing.

maybe some ivy league grads should post their salaries on the forbidden thread (linked right above)

true mental - but of I've come acroos quite a few now in architecture and they have all been pretty bad architects and employees. Now my brother is in finance and works with lots of ivies and in that field theyre top of the class, but not true in architecture.

My favorite story is a guy from Yale who was in his 50's when I met him. My boss worked with him years ago and was giving him charity work since he was now a full blown drunk living in a transiant hotel in Chicago with a hooker. He pulls up in a rusted out gremlin and starts unloading economy sized bags of cat food. My boss had to send him home before he even got in the door on day 1 to sober up. Needless to say once he started, he sucked as a designer, but was pretty funny for the 2 weeks he graced us with his brilliance.

evilp, have you met more bad architects that went to an ivy than bad architects that went to a state school? nothing offensive implied in the question, just curious how your experience with ivy grads fits in context with all architects.

Well, it goes both ways. I've worked with many untalented, incompetent co-workers (and even a few bosses) who are graduates of public universities or community colleges. On the other hand, the best architect I've worked for so far was a GSD grad.

Within the next couple weeks I'll be starting to compile a big list of design-oriented NYC firms that I plan to send my resume to. While I'm at it, I plan to make a note of where the partners of each firm went to school. It won't be a scientific survey by any stretch, but it will be interesting to see if any patterns become apparent. I'll be sure to share my findings here.

Ivys make the exact same salary as everyone else at every firm I've ever worked for, and I've worked with a lot of these people. There is absolutely NO advantage in salary. The advantage of the Ivy degree is that you will be more competitive in the job market, at least in your first few years out of school. After you've developed a reputation in the workplace, the significance of your Ivy League degree will diminish and your work experience will be more important.

Now, of course, you may get better work experience with that Ivy League degree early in your career, so there is definitely a link.

The first guy I worked for graduated from Penn and Yale. He was one of the worst architects I've seen.

Honestly, just go to U of Cincinnati, if you can. It's the best of all worlds great (cost, technology, professors, theory, contacts = worth upon graduation). Most importantly, they let YOU become YOU. Everything is dependent on your dedication, passion, and desire for the profession.

oops...

If you can get a copy of April's "Architect" magazine, it has a fairly thorough salary chart based on degree and years of experience...plus I know the girl on the cover

what is the cost for out of state tuition for cincy?

$7165 per quarter, but you're working in the co-op program for one or two quarters per year, and you can get in-state residency ($3887 per quarter) after your first year.

I went to a state school for my masters but will admit my desire to complete post-professional study at an ivy - but ONLY for the purposes of pursuing a tenured teaching position. I will agree that there is a general defensiveness that you will get if you imply that attending one of the ivies makes you more qualified for the job market. In my experience comparing my opportunities to those of my friends who attended an ivy, the only difference is the networking opportunites and YES it's effect is really only in the first few years out of school. My coworkers that attended ivies make the same as me.
I have had a couple of people respond to me at first like "where...did..you...say you went to school?" but once they see my portfolio, writings and professional experience they could care less which brand is on my degree.
So I say that if you are weak sauce with deep pockets, perhaps an ivy will get you where you want to go. If you were blessed with the magic hands and are determined to succeed, you can still do so with an education at a state school.

I'd say the absolute best architects I've worked for have come from the old IIT ( not the new curriculem) or midwest state schools like U Mich., IL, But that is prob because Ive only worked in Chicago so the State schools and IIT are more ingrained here. Interested to see the geographic link - maybe eastern ivies migrate to the midwest when they fail out east. What are the big schools on the western front?

everyone has a different idea of what the best architects are....i know some people who think good architects are the ones who just shut up and draw cad all day, and i know some who think good architects are the ones who question things and arent afraid of experimentation...

mental, I don't get the impression that people are bashing the ivies here. The original poster has a specific assumption- that going to an ivy league school will get him a higher salary than the rest of us slobs- that we are refuting with both generalizations and specific instances.

The one place actually that I've seen the ivy league name help is with clients- one of my previous bosses was a GSD alum, and some of the clients were impressed with that. Not impressed enough to pay their invoices on time, but at least impressed at the initial meeting.

the thing is this, i dont see anyone from an ivy school saying all you people who did not go to ivies are bums or stupid, and honestly, everyone who did go ivy thought long and hard about the money and salary and made the difficult choice to go with it, and i did because my state school was headed into to garbage. and i have met way more dumbasses at my state school in one class than i will most likely meet at school up here NY. i just think anyone who sais going to one of the top schools in the country is not worth it unless it is cincy istalking out of their ass, and in comparison an ivy league idiot is not smarter than a non ivy idiot, but there are a lot fewer here...

but to get back on topic, the salary will be the same unless you take advantage of the other opportunities available.

"the ones who question things and arent afraid of experimentation..."

I think its more bold to go out and give the lady what she wants

well I never had my employer say 'had you gone to an ivy, we would be paying you $10,000 more than we are'

Big difference between a havard MBA and a March from GSD. The only way an Ivy will get you more $$$ is picking a different major.

aquapura

you are correct...the only other thing I could suggest is going to GSD and marrying a harvard MBA student

well i do get a sweet vw bug to ride around in for my firm. it sucks though.

having a masters made no difference in my salary, actually you could say it hurt, since someone younger with just an undergrad made the same, since he had a couple years experience more than i did.

my limited experience shows that experience counts more than your degree

and i dont quite understand people who say you dont make any money in architecture. are you expecting to be a millionaire? what are we comparing it to? i work in a city, so that probably helps, but from what i can tell, you can make a very good living as an architect

now if you are expecting to make 6 figures before you are 30, ok maybe not then

i guess it all depends on how much money you want to make

yeah, that's some bs about not making money in arch. i know plenty of people that are living well in this field. you have to aim for what you want and go for it. if you sit there and tell yourself you won't make a good living in architecture, then you won't. and you're just going to sit on here an complain about it, getting nowhere.

that may have been the case years ago or something, but from my experience it really isnt the case anymore

compared to my group of friends who i went to school with, my salary is very comparable

mind you, none of them are doctors or lawyers
but still

once you get over the fairy tale of graduating from school and then becoming a starchitect instantly and realize you have to work at it and build up your career just like every other profession in the world, you will be fine

and if you go in thinking you will be some struggling artist and make no money like the old architect joke goes, then that is what you will be

marmkid- the impression of not making much comes from the high ratio of education to income for the profession. Other professions which require a similar amount of education and/or licensure process are more forthcoming with money.

mental- I frankly still think you're being overly defensive. The vast majority of the comments here are focused on the money question, not on whether ivy league grads suck or not. I'm sorry if you feel attacked for your decision to go to an Ivy, but I don't really see people attacking you for it, so am unsure where that perception comes from.

"Your best, losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and bang the prom queen."

i agree rationalist, that is where those ideas come from.

but those other careers, though i could be wrong, require you to get that much education and licenses or you cant go anywhere

for architects, you could do 5 years of school and really, then you are on your way
your license isnt something that you need to rush and get or you will be stuck making $10 an hour forever
i have known plenty of people who are unlicensed, but because they know what they are doing, are running projects, with a lot of resposibility and control.
i mean, sure it helps, but lets not pretend that we need 10 years of school just to make ends meet. we need at a minimum 1 extra year of school and then to take license exams. plenty of other careers require license exams, and not all of them are high paying glamorous careers

architects tend to get a woe is me attitude about everything, and it is not always true and usually sounds very whiny
{i'm not calling out anyone here, i am talking about people i knew through school and work}

The original poster asked about money. Why don't some Ivy league grads, who are working in architectural offices, answer his/her question by posting what they make? I already posted my salary history in the forbidden thread (again, linked above). I went to a state school.

rational, take what i write with a grain of salt

I can't find where you quoted that from ANYWHERE on this thread. If you're feeling hurt by things people have said in other threads, then absolutely let them have it in those threads. But that has no bearing on the question at hand, which is whether ivy league grads make any more money than others.

And yeah, I'm definitely taking what you say with a whole canister of salt. You're obviously very defensive about the issue.

I guess I've been gone a long time. That was a lot of useful insight. I'm just trying to figure out if I can afford to go into more debt.

I went to a non-ivy private school for undergrad and already am paying a high price.

I agree with all of you on the "architects that don't make money." I often wondered that those who whine about that are those who didn't have the persistance to make it. Kind of the starving artist attitude--that's it's grand to be an architect and not get paid, but you love it so much. I think money is simply a real world question. For me, I love architecture, but I want to know if I can still have an architectural fulfilling life while not paying loans for the rest of my life.

Thanks for this discussion everyone.

whoa, calm down a bit, that was a quote from the movie "the rock" from sean connery, and it seems that i am not the one on the defensive.

how was anyone supposed to know that? The Rock = Movie that was definitely not worth memorizing quotes from, so I genuinely thought that you thought that was the attitude you were getting about Ivy grads.