Four years of architectural studies has resulted in my own inner lunacy. I’m struggling at the fact if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Something that I always cherished and loved since High School is washing me away as an individual. Where has my love gone? I simply don’t know myself. Some, if not all of my emotions come from college. A place that rendered me into an unconfident individual who does not know anything about architecture… but I have a degree in it. A degree about knowing nothing! Wow that makes me feel so good inside! Now all this time I have (wasted) waited and I am now working in a firm filled with individuals who do not care about the profession and crank out “McMansions” for their McDonalds Manager salary. Saddest part is that I could hardly design and get a McMansion built! I will not lie. I thought I was going to be working amongst ambitious individuals who strive everyday to excel in their lives but from the look of the shit boxes they transport themselves in I am worried. The other day I had to pick up my boss off the street because his 1980 Tercel broke down on the highway. I have lost all my motivation and hope. I have gone to lowest point as of crying, asking myself why I followed this path. I was given the responsibility at work to design a playroom addition for a home and have failed at that. What has school prepared me for? The money sucks and I honestly don’t see myself going anywhere in life with a nine to five dead end job. I have been thinking about going into a whole new field, but I am 4 years older and not sure if I can handle the pressures of school. I am in a phase of if this is where I give up. Half way through my architectural studies I was at this same point, and now victorious holding the piece of paper with my name on it, I wish I would have given up! That’s not a characteristic of mine, unfortunally, I did not know it was going to be like this. Now I’m turning my eyes elsewhere and am about to give up, I don’t know if it’s because of the money, the stigma that has followed architects or what. I just don’t know. I have a great passion for this profession but I feel that I don’t have the knowledge or the credibility that school has prepared me for. I see and read all these theorists, that talk about architecture and I can not decipher one of their sentences to be honest. Ive tried to sit down and attempt to read theroy such as Benard Tchsumi, but I simply cant digest it. Its not the same language. Is this architecture? If I can’t talk amongst theorist does that mean I will be doing poorly designed McDonalds for the rest of my life? I have honestly been looking into optometry as an option, but I’m not sure if 10+ more years of education is going to make me a sane individual. Four years of architecture almost killed me while driving without 2 days of sleep and what for? A 14 dollar per hour job? Is this why I sacrificed my life for? Is this why I did not have an enjoyable college experience? Is this why I went to school for? I could of went straight through from High School for this. I feel like a piece of shit.
no sense in locking yourself in a situation where you don't like what you're doing. if you don't like your job in architecture you ain't go nothing else. find a firm that's doing the kind of work you want to be doing and try to get a job there? check out the architecture crushes thread lots of great work is being done in architecture. find people that inspire you and work with them.
and maybe aa PhD or m.arch program would help you learn about things like eisenman, tschumi, derrida, etc. if that's what you want.
except for the paper hats , mc donald's was one of my favorite jobs. give yourself a break taco. get some experience in the real world, even in a mcmansion designing world because getting any kind of experience is important. it is easier to move into something you like after you get some work done. even if the work is crap. because eventually the light will go on in your head and you'll realize that you know something, and that's a good feeling. school teaches nothing about the everyday work in the trenches. and you my friend are in the trenches. good luck.
Mc Taco – don’t despair just yet. I feel your pain and, while I don’t pretend to understand what you are going through personally, I have also been through some low times in architecture. It sounds to me like you need to get someone close and confide in them. A problem shared is a problem halved. The disadvantage of online forums is that you will always get someone replying with a satirical ‘shit happens’ response (no offence OldFogey) without them grasping the fact that you really seem to be having a difficult time.
But I hope that you can take solace in the fact that, regardless of profession, the majority of people will have similar concerns at some stage. Most people do not enjoy what they do for a living, however this is because most people have a job rather than a passion. From what you say, you are not one of these people, you are just surrounded by them. If I was an employer and had to choose between an MArch grad who knew Lotringer like the back of his hand and a guy who didn’t but, like yourself, clearly cared about maintaining passion, I would choose yourself every day of the week.
You can take or leave my advice as I don’t know you personally - but I’d suggest you take some time out and think about how you want to be in a few years time. If you decide that architecture is worth another shot, just remember how unfulfilled you feel now and let that memory fuel you into finding yourself suitable surroundings. No matter what people here say, they do exist. As I said before, you sound like you genuinely care. That is not something that you learn – that is you, and it’s a pretty rare quality. I’m confident that you’ll enjoy architecture a whole lot more if you feel you are using your passion. Either way, I would advise you think hard about whether or not another career will offer you better options. Perhaps it’s a case of the grass is always greener? Don’t let this low point hold you back – let it be the source for future drive. And good luck to you, I hope you do well.
taco, you are one of the most sane posters i have read on this board. i am surprised more people dont complain about this bullshit profession. i would rather do nothing else but be a successful architect, but it is for starving artists or sellout mc mansioners, take your pick
Chch said what I wanted to say, but really well. (Thanks, Chch!)
It's awesome that you feel this way--even though it feels really shitty now. So many people go through their whole lives without ever finding one thing they care enough about to feel let down from! I think one of the beautiful (and hideous) things about being an architect is that because we care so much we tend to have lower lows--and HIGHER HIGHS--than any other peer group I know. And those highs are amazing, and they'll come, you can take my word for it!
Now, for the practical time being, you have GOT to find yourself another job. Get to work on that resume RIGHT NOW. Use the resources on this board. There is indeed a better life out there, you are right. And don't worry about knowing everything all at once right now--the degree is only the first step of learning about a profession that is vast and really covers an incredible array of knowledge. I used to get discouraged that I didn't "know as much" about theory or arch. history or whatever as some of my peers, and then I began to realize that they didn't either--I was looking at one person who knew about one theorist, and then looking at another person who knew about one other theorist, and then still another person who knew about still another theorist... and conflating the whole of their knowledge and getting discouraged that I felt like I didn't know about anything! But, I, too, know one thing, and I will keep on adding to that one things as I go along, and that's what EVERYONE does. It takes time to amass knowledge about architecture, and it doesn't come to anyone all at once--everyone picks it up bit by bit over the years. Don't get discouraged, just keep checking out books at the library and try to understand them as best you can and don't be too hard on yourself--you won't understand everything at first but it will lie inside you, lurking, until someday one of those incomprehensible sentences of tschumi's rises up inside you while you are looking at the corner of a brick building in your hometown, and suddenly BAM! you will understand one more thing about architecture and theory.
Also, another good place to start is to read "What is Art" along with the archinect book club (there's a thread about it)--discussion always helps comprehension.
For the first four years I was out of school and in the working world I had regular monthly breakdowns when I would sit down to pay all my bills and see how little was left over to eat with. By "breakdown" I mean head-on-the-table crying my eyes out, anguish over how I would survive and could I give up my one passion to do so or would that kill me even though I would have money in the bank?
I also had a few crying incidents at work because I had been given a task and couldn't fulfill it and felt like a failure. But you know, once a structural engineer looked at me and said "You can't turn an expansion joint 90 d.", well, I learned that fact and never made the mistake again. But jeez, I was an intern and we never did expansion joints in school - how was I supposed to know?! It is a LONG and hard process of learning in this profession - many times people here have said one of the things they love about this field is that every job is a new learning curve - the tradeoff being that every job has the possibility of making you learn a hard lesson and feel like an idiot.
And, 20 years in, both of the above scenarios still happen to me occasionally if not regularly.
But as said above, you don't have to stay in a job where you are miserable!As has been said there ARE other jobs in the world of architecture. In the traditional practice world, there are large and small firms, corporate and boutique, historic work, health care, residential, schools...
One thing you DO NOT need to suffer is cowrokers who make you feel lousy. people who hate their work are poison - flat out poison to be around. Go find another firm where the people are the motivated, dedicated spirits you are interested in being aorund. Be prepared that they may also be cynical and broke, but at least they will have some passion and not drain all your energy away every day.
Remember also, and I feel like an old woman every time I say this, that the first few years out of school are IMO the most difficult time of life: you are transitioning into real adulthood and it truly sucks for awhile. I'm guessing you are in your 20s, which (again, IMO) is the hardest decade of life, in large part beacuse the transistion out of school makes everything seem so final. It's NOT - there is still so much time to try other things, explore ideas, job-hop even.
And to what myriam said about learning theory: I can't read a damn word of Tschumi or Deleuze or any of the starchitect's writing without glazing over in boredom. But! if someone explains it to me, after spending 20 years in the profession I have an ingrained understanding of how wacky-ass theories are manifest in the material world. Again, it's a long building process of living a life in architecture. Don't give up yet!
Gee thats the way I felt the first day of work after I graduated. So I quit work the next day( the boss had left for Hawaii so I wrote him a nice note) and then left and phoned up a smaller office got paid a little less and had an awesome summer designing houses and a few renovations then in the fall went and got hired by a local stararchitect for the experience left after they wouldn't give me a reasonable raise then went to work in another small office and found a great situation for many years til I was registered and then left to start my own gig.
The point of the story is that immediate satisfaction in our curent culture is problematic and in Architecture its even a greater problem. We call it a career because its a process and takes some time to know what works for you. Often its easier to know what you don't like before you find out what you do like. I would recommend you look at what things your current situation does well, understand it, learn from it and move on. Take the good things and build up skills/experiences that will allow you to build yourself into a better professional.
I don't know if architecture is worth it sometimes. But I do know what I overheard just a few minutes ago...
This was the last thing I wanted to hear before I decided to go to sleep tonight.
(Mind you, I am a woman architect).
I was standing out on my balcony, having a smoke and I overheard a snippet of conversation going on at a house party next door. This big, portly man was trying to hit on an Australian girl by telling her about his being an architect: "...more than anything, more than law or medicine, architecture seems to be the last vestige of male supremacy in the workplace". And the girl was like, "Oh wow! I had no idea it was still so bad for women in architecture". And the choad (the aforementioned portly architect) was like, "Oh yeah. You wouldn't even know how bad it is for women in architecture".
Like he fucking knows.
I sighed audibly, put my cigarette out and yelled, "Fuck Frank Gehry!"
One of the things that I have thought were to be true is that an artist's life is never easy. if you have never looked up towards god - or whatever power outside yourself - and asked why me, then you are not prepared for the possibility of great things. Each one of us has had that moment of self-doubt and despair, it's what happens when you wake up the next day and read your thoughts here and our subsequent commentary that you decide what to do next. That is when you decide who you are and what you want from this profession and your life.
Now I am betting that you are what 22 or 23 years old, am I right? Well, I am 39, yep 39, I just now finished my licensing, and I work for The Man. I still think about what it is I am doing, should I go back and get a MArch, should I go and get a MFA, should I....[fill in something], I am no closer to having "the right answer" than anyone else, but I keep telling myself; it's the journey stupid.
Point is enjoy the journey, read more, be true to your own ambitions and not those of others. Do a competition if you have to, work on the Breuer Submission - even though there is nothing to submit. Go back to school - hell Rodney did it, and it got him a fine, fine ass woman - get back to the grind of doing the things that made you fall into the world of architecture. One last thing, not everyone understands Tschumi anyway, let alone can even pronounce his last name correctly, so find another book, preferably not an architect, and find your passion in life and in architecture, you won't let you down.
competitions mc dude....competitions
its the only thing that has really fueled my fire in recent times.
most of them will provide you with all the files you need to get started. and even if you dont actually enter them, it will provide you with the kindling to start your own internal dialogue. And from there you can develop and progress your passion and ideas.
i graduated 5 years ago, and sought out a local starchitect who barely had enough work to keep himself busy. i begged him to give me something to do, and finally he put me to work a couple of days a week building models and doing a few drawings. I had to get two other part time jobs just to make ends meat. Architectural work was hard to come by in those days. things continued in that manner for about 6 months and it was great, until a large corporate firm that does mcmansion of a different sort called me up and offered me a full time job. as much as i didn't want to, i had to take it. My integrity took a big hit, but it was something i just had to do. i needed to get into the field and get some real world experience...i just couldn't afford to pass up the full time gig. i hated it and felt like i had given into "the man". i had such a bad attitude about it at first and it actually screwed me over in the long run, (but luckily have long since recovered from my "first impression"). but i stuck it out and once i got over myself, i really learned a lot about architecture. yeah, it wasnt anything theoretical, but more tectonic and process oriented. It totally opened my eyes to a majority of what this profession is all aboot. Let me tell you it was one of the best things that could have ever happened to me. I am so much more confident now about what we need to do to actually get things done.
So i have come to grips with the profession, and have realised that i will never be happy until im working for myself and doing my own architecture. but until i can make that happen, ive been keeping my passion inspired by participating in competitions. Im not really a theoretical person, i just love to create and invent special and unique spaces, and this outlet totally fills the void that is missing in my 9-5 world.
sorry if this doesnt make sense, but its ridiculously late (or early depending on your perspective) and im ridiculously inebriated, but i hope this helps.
mctaco, from your profile of past threads it looks like this crisis has been coming on for a while.
best advice i could give is to find a mentor - someone who is in something approximating the position where you'd like to be. look around at the profession in your town and figure out who's doing what and with what you'd like to align yourself.
start attending programs of the local aia to get to know other interns in your area and to get to know the architects that care enough to come to building tours and lectures.
when you find an office doing something worthwhile, start hitting them hard for a job. i did the mcmansion gig once, too, and yes, it will take chunks out of your soul. (they'll grow back.)
back to advice #1, though: find a mentor. find out if there are any archinectors in your town. maybe one of us can help you identify someone that would be a good fit. i've been lucky enough to have 3-4 positive mentors in my career; being with, talking with, having dinner with someone who has already done it is a great way to help yourself see a possible path.
you need to re evaluate what you want out of life. If you care about money, then most likely you'll need to either find a new career or think of ways to use your education creatively.
you have to decide what is important to you. Passion alone, imho, is not enough to bring happiness. My choice was based on balance - a diversified pursuit of design as well as a solid pay check.
It's a personal thing and something only you can figure out. Nothing worth while is ever easy, as they say.
blackcomb re: the friction between immediate satisfaction and the long-term commitment of building a career: spot on.
Steven re: going to some AIA events because the people you meet there will be people who CARE about architecture and could even mentor you: spot on.
somnabulist re: sticking it out in a soul-sucking job and learning as much as possible: spot on.
beta dear: spot on.
The point being, there is a ton of good advice here, McTaco. Please don't feel you are alone in this struggle you are facing, you just haven't yet found the people who can help you navigate through it.
Also, Steven, it's probably a huge relief for scores of young 'necters to simply hear the words: yes, it will take chunks out of your soul. (they'll grow back.)
probably no one has stepped on more landmines along the than me. this quote keeps me going...
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, 'press on' has solved, and always will solve, the problems of the human race."
Calvin Coolidge.(america's greatest president)
yeah...architectuer sucks, we all know that. buy the shirt & post a pic, etc.
but don't think it's just architecture. there's plenty of lawyers, doctors, and others who have similar complaints to yours. if you really want to try something different then maybe enlist, go to baghdad, watch half of your "brothers" get maimed for life and spend some time thinking about how bad architecture is.
in the meantime, join a country club and enjoy the tennis and martinis while you can...or just go to the bar...or even just drink alone if you prefer. it's just a job, it doesn't half to define you. there's 168 hours per week and even if you work the insane 80 hours that some people claim in some star offices that still leaves you more than half your life to do as you please with and you now have the choice to use it as you please. liberty bell is correct in that the first years after school can be difficult. i'd attribute this largely to the fact that now, for the first time in your life, you have complete control & responsibility over your life. no more relying on parents or even school as a crutch. now you're free to do whatever you want, even amazing things...or you could just watch tv...whatever...i really don't care what you do
I guess McTaco if you are looking for a movie quote or some one liner to sum this all up for you, in a Hollyweird way, it'd be this; "It's time to get busy living or get busy dying." - Morgan Freeman, Shawshank Redemption
A college degree is just an attendance certificate. Just because you went to college doesn't mean you're supposed to know everything. Just take it easy, things get better, but you also have to be willing to work to make things better.
i think you are in the wrong place for the profession (the US). Move to china for a year or two, and you might get to do some real design - not code compliance.
also taco you may want to look into your local csi chapter. you can make connections and meet people that way. of course, these people won't be reguritating useless architectureal theory stolen from lit crit, but they know how to waterproof a building.
I honestly don’t know who to thank first. So I will thank all of you. All your comments have moved me deeply reviving me into believing that there is still hope. As I stated with the passion comment I know that’s a hard word to define in the world of architecture. I feel that I have lots of it. However as of lately I have been questioning myself about my passion. Last semester a starchitect was my instructor for a studio, who shall remain anonymous. On my exit interview he asked about my weaknesses as for all the students. I was against this idea and felt that he should have told me MY weaknesses instead of me telling him. I know my weaknesses, I didn’t want to regurgitate them to him when I felt he didn’t give two shits about me throughout the studio. So I will list the things that I told him.
1. Two dialogues about my project, one with theory instructor, one with the starchitect. He went on to saying how I should connect the two... of course... but how when you disagreed on my thesis that I have been developing. This resulted in folding in to him and totally cutting and peicing my thesis into what he wanted.
2. Not having a voice during desk crits, I simply couldn’t get a word in cause he just loved to talk about himself and rarely discussed the potential of my project. He would talk about how to draw a double hung window correctly in elevation for an hour (no joke).
3. Expressing my thoughts verbally, this is something I have a hard time with, communication, and I know its something I have to work on. I am a shy individual who is still yet to come out of his shell.
4. Conviction of my ideas, I had a great initial concept but I let the instructor push me around into a project that I no longer cared for losing the real purpose of my project. Great thing is that he pushed my ideas onto another individual in the studio.
He respected my honesty and couldn’t agree more. Then he told me one of my weaknesses and that was:
Passion
When he hit me with that, it was the stake through my heart. It has been the hardest pill I had to swallow. I felt as I was one of hardest working individuals in his studio and it went unseen. I really wanted to engage and argue with him about how has shitted all over me in studio… but I gave in. His “stardom” and that word that I always prided myself with, just buried me alive. Ever since then I just haven’t been the same. I cant look into the eyes of people anymore… I recieved the lowest passing grade, a mark less and I would have not graduated. I dont know what to think about that anymore. Its like he would have failed me if he really wanted to.
Sorry for that detour but I just had to get it off my chest since it was mentioned.
As stated I think now is the time where I find my true identity as an intern. Your comments have sparked my memory in recalling a lecture that I attended by James Wines, NY architect. Most of the audience did not appreciate his work nor took his lecture seriously. His ‘Best Company’ buildings created a lot of controversy, but he was an individual who emphasized and talked about finding a true identity as an architect. He discussed his journey finding his true self in architecture not being a product of it. I really never understood his lecture till today. I feel that I am in his same shoes when he was younger. His lecture was during my 2nd year so I was young and naïve, guess I still am today, but I never knew a lecture could have moved me much as of now. In my last 2 years I have attended all the guest lectures and none of them really stood out to me. Sure a lot of great work but nothing that really made me walk away as a different individual. A lot of people did no appreciate him as I recall, but there was something about him that I admired that I never really understood and that was the identity that he was trying to find for himself.
As for the questions asked, I’m 22 years old, I’m not crying poverty, still live with my parents (I know frown about it), pay no bills and all the money I earn goes to a saving account. I have been fortunate and know I should not complain. I have come from a poor family and I tend forget where I came from. I had a full ride scholarship throughout school so I don’t owe a thing. I have a great relationship with my parents and I plan to keep it that way. They are my best friends honestly and I don’t know where I would be without them. They can not relate to me about this current situation because they were sheep herders from overseas. So they don’t really understand. I am just trying to better myself for the future generations of my family.
As for the mentor thing… I concur 100%. That is what is missing in my life. I thought finding a job would find me that person that would really push me and learn new things, but he is teaching me how to face wainscot on a façade. As for sticking it out at the current job situation and keeping my mind busy with completions on the side is the best thing. I feel that I can learn a lot about the process of architecture and how to get a built set of drawings ready for the city and how a firm operates.
Thank you again everyone for the inspirational words.
i have to admit something...at first i was going to say something snide like "if it's too tough for you just get out"....i mean, this is by no means a profession for those unwilling to make it their own. but as i've read down through, i can't help but feel that you just hit a little too late the same crisis i went through during my second year in school. architecture is a very tough profession and it's education is, for better or worse, a reflection of the profession itself. i guess my experience having gone to a land grant college with a scattered mix of ideologies, ended up forcing me to realize two things about the profession that i see so many others miss:
1. if you are looking to others to lead you or assure you of your "correctness" this profession will destroy you. design is a fickle business and one needs to develop an ability to find passion within their work...it is rarely handed to you. this also counts for having the willfullness to professionally disagree within a superior about their assumptions. this is necessary...but must be handled with care. but so many people i see seem to roll over the second anyone with authority tells the to. believe it or not your starchitect professor sounds like he was challenging you to push back and you didn't.
2. core abilities will always be the downfall of a decent student. so many people seem to take the approach that it's all about the big picture...and it is important to keep that in mind. but one of the largest things that cripple many people is their inabilities to get the basics down so they can then focus on the larger concepts. whether your professors would like to tell you this or not, it's a very detail oriented profession we're involved in. a meticulous nature will go much further than one that glosses over such intricacies. so be careful about the what you do, think consistency, think how would this be built, and understand what those questions mean. those are the basic ingredients to a good drawing....or to a good instruction manual...which is really what a good drawing is.
definitely seek out a mentor, do what you need to do to make it...but also be careful. understand what will allow you to take charge yourself and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions about why things happen (i.e. don't be afraid to ask the hard questions about yourself in order to effect change).
last word of advice: have fun with it (all). the second you stop doing this you lose. it's a pretty simple thing...if you can make it fun, you will do well.
My first thought after reading your post is to wonder why you don't just quit and get a better job elsewhere?
somehow i have been lucky...or maybe i am just stupid (20 to 1 this is the case). Either way, i have always loved my job, from early internship to now. And it keeps gettin better.
Never did mcmansion, but have done mildly commercial, so can understand a bit about the affliction of non-rewarding architecture in the architect-as-artist sense. But my first job was a fantastic learning experience technically, and i knew enough to treat it as such. The insane hours meant i did about 7 years of work in less than 5, and responsibility was totally thrown onto me from day one.
speaking of which, i fucked up ALL the time cuz i was beyond ignorant, but i asked lots of questions and the office was set up for us to learn on the way...in hindsight it was quite a blast, really. Every day an education. Maybe you will feel better if you treat current job like that...and quit when it is not even an education no more...
My first real job, btw, was begun with me as an illiterate in country where i was working. if you think it is hard to learn to be an architect, try doing it while also learning a seriously foreign language at the same time. Makes life very interesting (i learned all the curse words right away from all the yelling directed at me) !
I was talking with a friend of mine in a completely different profession this weekend. He's having the same anxieties as we architects do. So it's not only architecture that does this to people...it's working life.
Really, though, you're too young to be having a midlife crisis. Save that till you're forty, or at least in your late 30s.
In the meantime, set small goals for yourself. Try to save a couple thousand dollars this year, and then quit your job in January and travel for two months. It will clear your head -- I recommend a trek in Nepal, for instance.
Or work on competitions in your after hours.
Or move to a more creative city (don't know where you are now, but still...) and find a firm whose work you truly love. Work there.
It's easy to feel trapped by our current circumstances. It's easy to forget that the world is filled with literally millions of possibilities. Sometimes the greatest things happen when you give up one dream to pursue another.
You need to be in charge of your life, not your boss or your profession or the confining circumstances you find yourself in.
Keep this in mind: you're 22! You're so incredibly young, with tons of possibility before you. You can do anything you want to right now. You should try a bunch of different things -- don't resign yourself to architecture, or to a miserable life. Try a few different careers. You can always come back to architecture. Find the thing that you really do enjoy.
It's people like me who are 34 (or 44 or 54) who have a harder time making the choice to switch careers. In this respect, I envy you.
my da quit his job of 20+ years at age of 40 (he was a social worker, became a hospital administrator), sold his house, went to uni, and changed his career entirely. starting out from 0 (no equity, no relevant work exeperience just to start with) at age of 42 is not so easy, but he took challenge head on...my da was always pretty positive though and loved life regardless of work he was doing. i suppose that attitude makes a difference... for me it remains a very cool example to look back on. life, for people in the first world at least, really is entirely what we choose to make it.
I agree, Jump. 34 is really young, particularly for architecture. Most architects' careers don't get going until their late 40's (though at 34, friends of mine in other fields are already well into their careers.)
But I was concerned that McTaco was already cynical and frustrated at age 22, which, in architecture, is your infant years. Hell, I hadn't even STARTED studying architecture at 22.
My dad, too, remained positive through a few career changes. I wonder sometimes whether it's the era -- that people under 40 today have expectations of easy success. And they're easily disappointed.
1) a sense of entitlement. A lot of kids today (I mean most people under 25, let's say) went through school without fear of failure, because failure in school has been essentially outlawed by the administration. My best friend, his wife, and my mother are all teachers. They aren't allowed to fail students, from what I understand, and I think that when these kids get to the real world, they have a real sense of entitlement.
2) the flipside is that these same kids look at their parents' generation, and see that most of them have had a fairly easy time of it. They were hired out of school (either high school or college), have worked for the same company or two for the past 25 years, and have relatively stable employment. This is certainly not the case for this up-and-coming generation, who'll have several careers, bounce from job to job with very little job security, and may never feel anchored or stable in their home lives due to having to move from state to state (or province to province) chasing jobs which will probably only last them a year. It's a surprise that people aren't MORE cynical and jaded.
Yeah, but don't you think a lot of that job instability now is self imposed? Most of my friends jump every two to three years. My dad, though, has been in his current job for twenty years. And in the previous one for 15.
I COULD have been in my last job for 15 years, but I grew sick of it after a couple and considered my other options.
I guess a lot of us choose not to feel anchored. Maybe cuz we're looking for fame and fortune -- and desk jobs don't really provide that.
The need for immediate gratification in the current generation is something to avoid. I see it in my own kids and I'm as bad as next person to spoil my kids , give them more than what I had as a child, but after this last weekend when I had a complete hissy fit over my son's request for this and that and expectation that he should get it I lost it.
The need to work for something thing respect the attainment of a goal although simple is still a good ideal. Its been said that our current generation will change careers nine times before they die ...that's crazy but I can see how it could happen ( perhaps less for professionals ) but my Dad stayed in a job from the time he was 18 till he retired at 55, paid off his house etc. I still remeber the day he and my mom had a drink in the living room and toasted the occasion.
So please people show some character and tough it out, its not easy but the efforts builds character, integrity and a career that people still respect. I still marvel meeting people who had a tough go of things earlier in life and they always seem more interesting, interested in life and challenged in what they do everyday.
sorry to get off topic here, but i really must take issue with the "sense of entitlement" ....i don't really see the second reason (about the parents) as the flipside, and think there is more to it.
more is expected of the current under-25 age group than has been expected of other generations. by age 26-27, we're supposed to be out of undergrad, finished with grad school, and in a great career we love. oh yeah, and they are also supposed to find a mate and procreate by around this time (30, tops). a lot of the pressure is being imposed by parents...not to place blame, but it is a major factor. sure your mother, friend and friend's wife would all agree that they are not allowed to fail anyone because of the parents, not because of the children.
everyone is bringing up some points that i have been grappling with for the past few weeks. being that i seem to be the middle age in this argument (early 30s) i'm not fully feeling like i have the sense of entitlement attributed to those in their 20s currently, nor do i have the feeling that "toughing things out" is the way to go, as some people in the older generation might feel.
maybe this is just a singular experience, but i can't help but feel that maybe there is something to it.....
okay, now i'm 10 years out of school....most of my career has been spent on the design side, which i am mostly fine with, i have worked on a variety of projects and at at least 4 different offices....although most of the time was spent at one office (5 years). i have been found to be very good at presentation work, but have also been consistently sought out for solving complex coordination issues and design development of more complex geometry detailing....cool. and then i look at what people above me were doing and they were no more a "designer" of the end product than i was....they had no more say. the design partner really drove most design decisions and depending on which one you worked under would determine the amount to which your design studies had a chance in hell of being considered. and there was very little sense of logic to the design process that allowed you to anticipate new design directions...the design process was very internalized and personal with little ability to discuss a larger ambition of the project or agenda for it.
and so you slave developing internalized personal dialogues for years working until 10pm, 12pm, 2am. weekends. and you begin to wonder, why?
so if i "tough it out" for another 10 years i can be that guy? will they even need more design partners in 10 years. the entire office was top heavy to begin with.....and so you chase potential ways of getting to a point of being able to feel that you are actually respected as a professional and have some voice in the process.
which maybe is a sense of entitlement. what was the situation like for these people in their early years in a office?
was their pay as low in proportion to the standard of living, were their hours as long, were they unable to buy a house until their mid-thirties?
in some ways i feel at times part of a lost generation in the profession. but i do have hope. that offices are beginning to happen that are focused differently. that externalize their design dialogue and utilize the resources at their disposal instead of just abusing it.....and maybe just maybe we can begin to right the course of where the profession has seemed to drift.
whistler, i wouldn't be so quick to judge someone else's need for more character.
times are changing, and we've all played our part in it. we didn't just wake up last week with kids expecting an upgrade to a platinum spoon in their mouths. someone put the spoon there.
the younger generation can be blamed for propogating the sense of entitlement, but its seeds were planted well before...
We can lay blame on a bunch of factors, Cdee, but the fact remains that kids who aren't ever told 'NO,' by and large get a rude awakening when they become adults.
One other factor is how the corporate world has restructured relatively recently - outsourcing jobs, of course, but also the issue of how many employers will hire two part time employees instead of one full-time employee, because it's cheaper - no overtime, no benefits, etc... and at the same time, requiring that their part-timers be on call daily.
I think that's a bit harsh on McTaco. He seems to just be in need of some reassurance from his peers - something we all need at times.
I do agree that the younger generation seems to have less of a sense of deferred gratification, though. There's been lots of debate about this, but it'd be interesting to see the views people on here have. I think if this is the way the discussion goes, though, it should be said aloud that the topic is not related to McTaco's situation. It'd be pretty harsh for a discussion to unfurl about ungrateful youth (I'm 22 myself, so no judging) when his post was so honest.
Personally, I think Fight Club hit the nail on the head when it talks about how we've grown up in an age where success is presented as being easily obtainable (mainly in the media). I guess it could have a lot to do with the expansion and convergence of media in recent years, meaning that the those in the media become seen by more people and become more successful. The people we see most of these days are people in the media, and in today's world to be in that position you pretty much need to be successful already. It's a spiral.
i think it is as simple as this, we are all told growing up that if you work hard you will succeed, and as architecture students, we work really hard, and in a society where success is rated by income, it seems all the hard work was for nothing since success(money) is not flowing in like we think it should. also, there are a lot of other professions that dont require that much work but pay on average much much better starting off. success (by any definition) is attainable in architecture, but you better be prepaired to deal with a lot of shit.
I have to say, with architecture you can get the satisfaction of design as well as production - a rare quality and if that's your thing - which let's face it it is - it's the best situation to be in. However, really successful people usually only have career success. You can't do everything - it's a life choice of many sources of satisfaction, or one source of ecstacy.
Here's the scary thing for me: I worked briefly for a medium sized firm in NYC. Their real heyday was the early 80s, the height of Pomo, and stylistically they're out of date now. They had, like, eight partners -- people who were in their fifties and sixties.
Those people seemed miserable. At 60, when they should have been enjoying their "golden years," they were droning away on not-very-good work, stressed out, having political battles with each other. And for what?
That's the future that I'm desperately trying to avoid.
staying fresh as architect is not easy. my old boss and good friend is like that, farwest 1, still a pomo man, but i think not unhappy. he had 64 large-ish projects in office last year (really more than enough work for 15 architects); apprently someone still likes pomo...;-)
anyway, i think all old people think the young are lazy. it is built in, so easy enough to ignore. at least in a general way.
it is late here in tokyo, and i am drinking some wine while i work, so the world is not particularly clear to me just now...but it is curious to me that 4 of my uncles own their own companies and are quite silly-wealthy; but each grew up on farm, dirt-poor as only farmers can be and only 1 finished high school. But their kids, my cousins, ALL work for their dads. None of them went on to make a life on their own...maybe the problem is not one of entitlement, but dependency...
me, i left home at 17, before i finished high school. We had no money so was easy choice (made mum's life easier too). Dad told me there was no money for uni, so i got a job as a cook and worked my way up to architecture from there. Sometimes being financially challenged is a good thing. at the very least it teaches you to stand up when you want to move on, cuz literally no one is gonna do it for you.
as for toughing it out, well that seems a ripe bag of rubbish to me, unless there is something to stick it out FOR. Figure that "for" out and life gets a hecka lot easier, i think.
Just as an encouragement, I know many architects still in practice in their 70's. They often joke about it being about not having enough for retirement, but clearly isn't the case. They truly enjoyed their career and will continue until they physically can't. I sometimes envy the passion they still have about this profession. They do have their issues with where the profession is going, but who doesn't? And isn't it our responsibility (not limited to the young, I mean "our" as in an architect to be or an architect in practice no matter the age) to be actively pursuing a better future for our chosen profession? Don't just "tough it out," be active by trying to fix the problem even on a small scale.
Sorry if my commentary re: toughing it out was construed as being a suggestion to suffer through it ( architecture ) it was more a suggestion to stick to, and make adjustments for you, your career, the profession. I see my dedication to "toughing it out" as a challenge to make the world a better place.
You'll need that pompous ass sense of entightlement - its the only way out. 9 out of 10 will fail but the 1 person, oblivious to their faults, and in love with their own genius will be the one with the will power and risk navigating capabilities to make it. Its really a personality type that suceeds more than anything - and those personalitites are at a minimum in this profesion.
Wow, that was a lot to read... Hi everyone, I just joined archinect, and feel stupid for now knowing about these discussions before hand.
Mc Taco: I, too, am in my twenties and I suffer from the same self-doubt all of the time. I know exactly how you feel. I just graduated a few weeks ago and throughout my whole architectural education (thus far) I have questioned myself, my abilities, my passion, etc. time and time again. As I read all of these discussions, I find myself still doing the same. I wanted to thank you for being so honest on your post because it really spoke to me.
You have some great insight here (that I will use for myself as well). Chch, LibertyBell, Myriam, just to name a few have really inspired me to persist.
As I begin my VERY FIRST REAL JOB in a week, I am terrified. I don't know if school prepared me enough. Or if I didn't prepare myself enough. I did well in school and gain respect from my peers, but I feel like I fall short in a lot of areas. For example, I don't really know how an office works. Although I interned for a few months, I don't feel as if I know enough about CD's and how to even put a real building together.
I'm also a shy, sometimes very insecure, but sometimes totally secure person. Thankfully, I have had great professors that believe in me and have been great inspiration to me. I push through and when I do, I find myself pretty satisfied with the results, but unfortunately, my insecurities can get the best of me.
not sure that i'm adding much at this point but i'll pitch in anyway.
mctaco, i'll add myself to the list of those suggesting you look around, or travel, or take some kind of break.
i tried on a lot of different jobs and failing at running my own business before starting to study architecture. i've a long way to go still but am in my first summer job, and after so many jobs where i just hated every bit of it and spent each day going mad inside my own head and wondering how everyone else was appearing to be comfortable doing things i couldn't stand, i am embarrassingly in love with even this shallow end of it, and feel much more positive about actually having a niche in the world than i ever have before. sure, i am not yet jaded and had the good luck to get into a great office that's preparing me as a cad monkey but also throwing me on site and into design, but i know that this feels different.
and if that reads as a comment on entitlement or that you should love it/find something you love about it, i mean the opposite - go and explore and find what makes your brain and heart tingly instead of sad, and pursue it before you've thrown away years pretending it'll get better or trying to avoid going back to school.
Architecture: My Biggest Let Down
Four years of architectural studies has resulted in my own inner lunacy. I’m struggling at the fact if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Something that I always cherished and loved since High School is washing me away as an individual. Where has my love gone? I simply don’t know myself. Some, if not all of my emotions come from college. A place that rendered me into an unconfident individual who does not know anything about architecture… but I have a degree in it. A degree about knowing nothing! Wow that makes me feel so good inside! Now all this time I have (wasted) waited and I am now working in a firm filled with individuals who do not care about the profession and crank out “McMansions” for their McDonalds Manager salary. Saddest part is that I could hardly design and get a McMansion built! I will not lie. I thought I was going to be working amongst ambitious individuals who strive everyday to excel in their lives but from the look of the shit boxes they transport themselves in I am worried. The other day I had to pick up my boss off the street because his 1980 Tercel broke down on the highway. I have lost all my motivation and hope. I have gone to lowest point as of crying, asking myself why I followed this path. I was given the responsibility at work to design a playroom addition for a home and have failed at that. What has school prepared me for? The money sucks and I honestly don’t see myself going anywhere in life with a nine to five dead end job. I have been thinking about going into a whole new field, but I am 4 years older and not sure if I can handle the pressures of school. I am in a phase of if this is where I give up. Half way through my architectural studies I was at this same point, and now victorious holding the piece of paper with my name on it, I wish I would have given up! That’s not a characteristic of mine, unfortunally, I did not know it was going to be like this. Now I’m turning my eyes elsewhere and am about to give up, I don’t know if it’s because of the money, the stigma that has followed architects or what. I just don’t know. I have a great passion for this profession but I feel that I don’t have the knowledge or the credibility that school has prepared me for. I see and read all these theorists, that talk about architecture and I can not decipher one of their sentences to be honest. Ive tried to sit down and attempt to read theroy such as Benard Tchsumi, but I simply cant digest it. Its not the same language. Is this architecture? If I can’t talk amongst theorist does that mean I will be doing poorly designed McDonalds for the rest of my life? I have honestly been looking into optometry as an option, but I’m not sure if 10+ more years of education is going to make me a sane individual. Four years of architecture almost killed me while driving without 2 days of sleep and what for? A 14 dollar per hour job? Is this why I sacrificed my life for? Is this why I did not have an enjoyable college experience? Is this why I went to school for? I could of went straight through from High School for this. I feel like a piece of shit.
no sense in locking yourself in a situation where you don't like what you're doing. if you don't like your job in architecture you ain't go nothing else. find a firm that's doing the kind of work you want to be doing and try to get a job there? check out the architecture crushes thread lots of great work is being done in architecture. find people that inspire you and work with them.
and maybe aa PhD or m.arch program would help you learn about things like eisenman, tschumi, derrida, etc. if that's what you want.
except for the paper hats , mc donald's was one of my favorite jobs. give yourself a break taco. get some experience in the real world, even in a mcmansion designing world because getting any kind of experience is important. it is easier to move into something you like after you get some work done. even if the work is crap. because eventually the light will go on in your head and you'll realize that you know something, and that's a good feeling. school teaches nothing about the everyday work in the trenches. and you my friend are in the trenches. good luck.
Mc Taco – don’t despair just yet. I feel your pain and, while I don’t pretend to understand what you are going through personally, I have also been through some low times in architecture. It sounds to me like you need to get someone close and confide in them. A problem shared is a problem halved. The disadvantage of online forums is that you will always get someone replying with a satirical ‘shit happens’ response (no offence OldFogey) without them grasping the fact that you really seem to be having a difficult time.
But I hope that you can take solace in the fact that, regardless of profession, the majority of people will have similar concerns at some stage. Most people do not enjoy what they do for a living, however this is because most people have a job rather than a passion. From what you say, you are not one of these people, you are just surrounded by them. If I was an employer and had to choose between an MArch grad who knew Lotringer like the back of his hand and a guy who didn’t but, like yourself, clearly cared about maintaining passion, I would choose yourself every day of the week.
You can take or leave my advice as I don’t know you personally - but I’d suggest you take some time out and think about how you want to be in a few years time. If you decide that architecture is worth another shot, just remember how unfulfilled you feel now and let that memory fuel you into finding yourself suitable surroundings. No matter what people here say, they do exist. As I said before, you sound like you genuinely care. That is not something that you learn – that is you, and it’s a pretty rare quality. I’m confident that you’ll enjoy architecture a whole lot more if you feel you are using your passion. Either way, I would advise you think hard about whether or not another career will offer you better options. Perhaps it’s a case of the grass is always greener? Don’t let this low point hold you back – let it be the source for future drive. And good luck to you, I hope you do well.
(sorry for the long post)
taco, you are one of the most sane posters i have read on this board. i am surprised more people dont complain about this bullshit profession. i would rather do nothing else but be a successful architect, but it is for starving artists or sellout mc mansioners, take your pick
Chch said what I wanted to say, but really well. (Thanks, Chch!)
It's awesome that you feel this way--even though it feels really shitty now. So many people go through their whole lives without ever finding one thing they care enough about to feel let down from! I think one of the beautiful (and hideous) things about being an architect is that because we care so much we tend to have lower lows--and HIGHER HIGHS--than any other peer group I know. And those highs are amazing, and they'll come, you can take my word for it!
Now, for the practical time being, you have GOT to find yourself another job. Get to work on that resume RIGHT NOW. Use the resources on this board. There is indeed a better life out there, you are right. And don't worry about knowing everything all at once right now--the degree is only the first step of learning about a profession that is vast and really covers an incredible array of knowledge. I used to get discouraged that I didn't "know as much" about theory or arch. history or whatever as some of my peers, and then I began to realize that they didn't either--I was looking at one person who knew about one theorist, and then looking at another person who knew about one other theorist, and then still another person who knew about still another theorist... and conflating the whole of their knowledge and getting discouraged that I felt like I didn't know about anything! But, I, too, know one thing, and I will keep on adding to that one things as I go along, and that's what EVERYONE does. It takes time to amass knowledge about architecture, and it doesn't come to anyone all at once--everyone picks it up bit by bit over the years. Don't get discouraged, just keep checking out books at the library and try to understand them as best you can and don't be too hard on yourself--you won't understand everything at first but it will lie inside you, lurking, until someday one of those incomprehensible sentences of tschumi's rises up inside you while you are looking at the corner of a brick building in your hometown, and suddenly BAM! you will understand one more thing about architecture and theory.
Also, another good place to start is to read "What is Art" along with the archinect book club (there's a thread about it)--discussion always helps comprehension.
McTaco: We have ALL been there.
For the first four years I was out of school and in the working world I had regular monthly breakdowns when I would sit down to pay all my bills and see how little was left over to eat with. By "breakdown" I mean head-on-the-table crying my eyes out, anguish over how I would survive and could I give up my one passion to do so or would that kill me even though I would have money in the bank?
I also had a few crying incidents at work because I had been given a task and couldn't fulfill it and felt like a failure. But you know, once a structural engineer looked at me and said "You can't turn an expansion joint 90 d.", well, I learned that fact and never made the mistake again. But jeez, I was an intern and we never did expansion joints in school - how was I supposed to know?! It is a LONG and hard process of learning in this profession - many times people here have said one of the things they love about this field is that every job is a new learning curve - the tradeoff being that every job has the possibility of making you learn a hard lesson and feel like an idiot.
And, 20 years in, both of the above scenarios still happen to me occasionally if not regularly.
But as said above, you don't have to stay in a job where you are miserable!As has been said there ARE other jobs in the world of architecture. In the traditional practice world, there are large and small firms, corporate and boutique, historic work, health care, residential, schools...
One thing you DO NOT need to suffer is cowrokers who make you feel lousy. people who hate their work are poison - flat out poison to be around. Go find another firm where the people are the motivated, dedicated spirits you are interested in being aorund. Be prepared that they may also be cynical and broke, but at least they will have some passion and not drain all your energy away every day.
Remember also, and I feel like an old woman every time I say this, that the first few years out of school are IMO the most difficult time of life: you are transitioning into real adulthood and it truly sucks for awhile. I'm guessing you are in your 20s, which (again, IMO) is the hardest decade of life, in large part beacuse the transistion out of school makes everything seem so final. It's NOT - there is still so much time to try other things, explore ideas, job-hop even.
And to what myriam said about learning theory: I can't read a damn word of Tschumi or Deleuze or any of the starchitect's writing without glazing over in boredom. But! if someone explains it to me, after spending 20 years in the profession I have an ingrained understanding of how wacky-ass theories are manifest in the material world. Again, it's a long building process of living a life in architecture. Don't give up yet!
Gee thats the way I felt the first day of work after I graduated. So I quit work the next day( the boss had left for Hawaii so I wrote him a nice note) and then left and phoned up a smaller office got paid a little less and had an awesome summer designing houses and a few renovations then in the fall went and got hired by a local stararchitect for the experience left after they wouldn't give me a reasonable raise then went to work in another small office and found a great situation for many years til I was registered and then left to start my own gig.
The point of the story is that immediate satisfaction in our curent culture is problematic and in Architecture its even a greater problem. We call it a career because its a process and takes some time to know what works for you. Often its easier to know what you don't like before you find out what you do like. I would recommend you look at what things your current situation does well, understand it, learn from it and move on. Take the good things and build up skills/experiences that will allow you to build yourself into a better professional.
I don't know if architecture is worth it sometimes. But I do know what I overheard just a few minutes ago...
This was the last thing I wanted to hear before I decided to go to sleep tonight.
(Mind you, I am a woman architect).
I was standing out on my balcony, having a smoke and I overheard a snippet of conversation going on at a house party next door. This big, portly man was trying to hit on an Australian girl by telling her about his being an architect: "...more than anything, more than law or medicine, architecture seems to be the last vestige of male supremacy in the workplace". And the girl was like, "Oh wow! I had no idea it was still so bad for women in architecture". And the choad (the aforementioned portly architect) was like, "Oh yeah. You wouldn't even know how bad it is for women in architecture".
Like he fucking knows.
I sighed audibly, put my cigarette out and yelled, "Fuck Frank Gehry!"
One of the things that I have thought were to be true is that an artist's life is never easy. if you have never looked up towards god - or whatever power outside yourself - and asked why me, then you are not prepared for the possibility of great things. Each one of us has had that moment of self-doubt and despair, it's what happens when you wake up the next day and read your thoughts here and our subsequent commentary that you decide what to do next. That is when you decide who you are and what you want from this profession and your life.
Now I am betting that you are what 22 or 23 years old, am I right? Well, I am 39, yep 39, I just now finished my licensing, and I work for The Man. I still think about what it is I am doing, should I go back and get a MArch, should I go and get a MFA, should I....[fill in something], I am no closer to having "the right answer" than anyone else, but I keep telling myself; it's the journey stupid.
Point is enjoy the journey, read more, be true to your own ambitions and not those of others. Do a competition if you have to, work on the Breuer Submission - even though there is nothing to submit. Go back to school - hell Rodney did it, and it got him a fine, fine ass woman - get back to the grind of doing the things that made you fall into the world of architecture. One last thing, not everyone understands Tschumi anyway, let alone can even pronounce his last name correctly, so find another book, preferably not an architect, and find your passion in life and in architecture, you won't let you down.
Beliede dat!
competitions mc dude....competitions
its the only thing that has really fueled my fire in recent times.
most of them will provide you with all the files you need to get started. and even if you dont actually enter them, it will provide you with the kindling to start your own internal dialogue. And from there you can develop and progress your passion and ideas.
i graduated 5 years ago, and sought out a local starchitect who barely had enough work to keep himself busy. i begged him to give me something to do, and finally he put me to work a couple of days a week building models and doing a few drawings. I had to get two other part time jobs just to make ends meat. Architectural work was hard to come by in those days. things continued in that manner for about 6 months and it was great, until a large corporate firm that does mcmansion of a different sort called me up and offered me a full time job. as much as i didn't want to, i had to take it. My integrity took a big hit, but it was something i just had to do. i needed to get into the field and get some real world experience...i just couldn't afford to pass up the full time gig. i hated it and felt like i had given into "the man". i had such a bad attitude about it at first and it actually screwed me over in the long run, (but luckily have long since recovered from my "first impression"). but i stuck it out and once i got over myself, i really learned a lot about architecture. yeah, it wasnt anything theoretical, but more tectonic and process oriented. It totally opened my eyes to a majority of what this profession is all aboot. Let me tell you it was one of the best things that could have ever happened to me. I am so much more confident now about what we need to do to actually get things done.
So i have come to grips with the profession, and have realised that i will never be happy until im working for myself and doing my own architecture. but until i can make that happen, ive been keeping my passion inspired by participating in competitions. Im not really a theoretical person, i just love to create and invent special and unique spaces, and this outlet totally fills the void that is missing in my 9-5 world.
sorry if this doesnt make sense, but its ridiculously late (or early depending on your perspective) and im ridiculously inebriated, but i hope this helps.
hey lb, it's really weird, i wrote my post then read yours, and it's certainly odd how much we think alike - must be the age?
ericag, that's hot! FFG!
mctaco, from your profile of past threads it looks like this crisis has been coming on for a while.
best advice i could give is to find a mentor - someone who is in something approximating the position where you'd like to be. look around at the profession in your town and figure out who's doing what and with what you'd like to align yourself.
start attending programs of the local aia to get to know other interns in your area and to get to know the architects that care enough to come to building tours and lectures.
when you find an office doing something worthwhile, start hitting them hard for a job. i did the mcmansion gig once, too, and yes, it will take chunks out of your soul. (they'll grow back.)
back to advice #1, though: find a mentor. find out if there are any archinectors in your town. maybe one of us can help you identify someone that would be a good fit. i've been lucky enough to have 3-4 positive mentors in my career; being with, talking with, having dinner with someone who has already done it is a great way to help yourself see a possible path.
keep us posted.
beta you are really craggy for not even bein 40.
you need to re evaluate what you want out of life. If you care about money, then most likely you'll need to either find a new career or think of ways to use your education creatively.
you have to decide what is important to you. Passion alone, imho, is not enough to bring happiness. My choice was based on balance - a diversified pursuit of design as well as a solid pay check.
It's a personal thing and something only you can figure out. Nothing worth while is ever easy, as they say.
blackcomb re: the friction between immediate satisfaction and the long-term commitment of building a career: spot on.
Steven re: going to some AIA events because the people you meet there will be people who CARE about architecture and could even mentor you: spot on.
somnabulist re: sticking it out in a soul-sucking job and learning as much as possible: spot on.
beta dear: spot on.
The point being, there is a ton of good advice here, McTaco. Please don't feel you are alone in this struggle you are facing, you just haven't yet found the people who can help you navigate through it.
Also, Steven, it's probably a huge relief for scores of young 'necters to simply hear the words: yes, it will take chunks out of your soul. (they'll grow back.)
probably no one has stepped on more landmines along the than me. this quote keeps me going...
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, 'press on' has solved, and always will solve, the problems of the human race."
Calvin Coolidge.(america's greatest president)
yeah...architectuer sucks, we all know that. buy the shirt & post a pic, etc.
but don't think it's just architecture. there's plenty of lawyers, doctors, and others who have similar complaints to yours. if you really want to try something different then maybe enlist, go to baghdad, watch half of your "brothers" get maimed for life and spend some time thinking about how bad architecture is.
in the meantime, join a country club and enjoy the tennis and martinis while you can...or just go to the bar...or even just drink alone if you prefer. it's just a job, it doesn't half to define you. there's 168 hours per week and even if you work the insane 80 hours that some people claim in some star offices that still leaves you more than half your life to do as you please with and you now have the choice to use it as you please. liberty bell is correct in that the first years after school can be difficult. i'd attribute this largely to the fact that now, for the first time in your life, you have complete control & responsibility over your life. no more relying on parents or even school as a crutch. now you're free to do whatever you want, even amazing things...or you could just watch tv...whatever...i really don't care what you do
Steven, I too enjoy that line....
I guess McTaco if you are looking for a movie quote or some one liner to sum this all up for you, in a Hollyweird way, it'd be this; "It's time to get busy living or get busy dying." - Morgan Freeman, Shawshank Redemption
A college degree is just an attendance certificate. Just because you went to college doesn't mean you're supposed to know everything. Just take it easy, things get better, but you also have to be willing to work to make things better.
i think you are in the wrong place for the profession (the US). Move to china for a year or two, and you might get to do some real design - not code compliance.
also taco you may want to look into your local csi chapter. you can make connections and meet people that way. of course, these people won't be reguritating useless architectureal theory stolen from lit crit, but they know how to waterproof a building.
Wow,
I honestly don’t know who to thank first. So I will thank all of you. All your comments have moved me deeply reviving me into believing that there is still hope. As I stated with the passion comment I know that’s a hard word to define in the world of architecture. I feel that I have lots of it. However as of lately I have been questioning myself about my passion. Last semester a starchitect was my instructor for a studio, who shall remain anonymous. On my exit interview he asked about my weaknesses as for all the students. I was against this idea and felt that he should have told me MY weaknesses instead of me telling him. I know my weaknesses, I didn’t want to regurgitate them to him when I felt he didn’t give two shits about me throughout the studio. So I will list the things that I told him.
1. Two dialogues about my project, one with theory instructor, one with the starchitect. He went on to saying how I should connect the two... of course... but how when you disagreed on my thesis that I have been developing. This resulted in folding in to him and totally cutting and peicing my thesis into what he wanted.
2. Not having a voice during desk crits, I simply couldn’t get a word in cause he just loved to talk about himself and rarely discussed the potential of my project. He would talk about how to draw a double hung window correctly in elevation for an hour (no joke).
3. Expressing my thoughts verbally, this is something I have a hard time with, communication, and I know its something I have to work on. I am a shy individual who is still yet to come out of his shell.
4. Conviction of my ideas, I had a great initial concept but I let the instructor push me around into a project that I no longer cared for losing the real purpose of my project. Great thing is that he pushed my ideas onto another individual in the studio.
He respected my honesty and couldn’t agree more. Then he told me one of my weaknesses and that was:
Passion
When he hit me with that, it was the stake through my heart. It has been the hardest pill I had to swallow. I felt as I was one of hardest working individuals in his studio and it went unseen. I really wanted to engage and argue with him about how has shitted all over me in studio… but I gave in. His “stardom” and that word that I always prided myself with, just buried me alive. Ever since then I just haven’t been the same. I cant look into the eyes of people anymore… I recieved the lowest passing grade, a mark less and I would have not graduated. I dont know what to think about that anymore. Its like he would have failed me if he really wanted to.
Sorry for that detour but I just had to get it off my chest since it was mentioned.
As stated I think now is the time where I find my true identity as an intern. Your comments have sparked my memory in recalling a lecture that I attended by James Wines, NY architect. Most of the audience did not appreciate his work nor took his lecture seriously. His ‘Best Company’ buildings created a lot of controversy, but he was an individual who emphasized and talked about finding a true identity as an architect. He discussed his journey finding his true self in architecture not being a product of it. I really never understood his lecture till today. I feel that I am in his same shoes when he was younger. His lecture was during my 2nd year so I was young and naïve, guess I still am today, but I never knew a lecture could have moved me much as of now. In my last 2 years I have attended all the guest lectures and none of them really stood out to me. Sure a lot of great work but nothing that really made me walk away as a different individual. A lot of people did no appreciate him as I recall, but there was something about him that I admired that I never really understood and that was the identity that he was trying to find for himself.
As for the questions asked, I’m 22 years old, I’m not crying poverty, still live with my parents (I know frown about it), pay no bills and all the money I earn goes to a saving account. I have been fortunate and know I should not complain. I have come from a poor family and I tend forget where I came from. I had a full ride scholarship throughout school so I don’t owe a thing. I have a great relationship with my parents and I plan to keep it that way. They are my best friends honestly and I don’t know where I would be without them. They can not relate to me about this current situation because they were sheep herders from overseas. So they don’t really understand. I am just trying to better myself for the future generations of my family.
As for the mentor thing… I concur 100%. That is what is missing in my life. I thought finding a job would find me that person that would really push me and learn new things, but he is teaching me how to face wainscot on a façade. As for sticking it out at the current job situation and keeping my mind busy with completions on the side is the best thing. I feel that I can learn a lot about the process of architecture and how to get a built set of drawings ready for the city and how a firm operates.
Thank you again everyone for the inspirational words.
i have to admit something...at first i was going to say something snide like "if it's too tough for you just get out"....i mean, this is by no means a profession for those unwilling to make it their own. but as i've read down through, i can't help but feel that you just hit a little too late the same crisis i went through during my second year in school. architecture is a very tough profession and it's education is, for better or worse, a reflection of the profession itself. i guess my experience having gone to a land grant college with a scattered mix of ideologies, ended up forcing me to realize two things about the profession that i see so many others miss:
1. if you are looking to others to lead you or assure you of your "correctness" this profession will destroy you. design is a fickle business and one needs to develop an ability to find passion within their work...it is rarely handed to you. this also counts for having the willfullness to professionally disagree within a superior about their assumptions. this is necessary...but must be handled with care. but so many people i see seem to roll over the second anyone with authority tells the to. believe it or not your starchitect professor sounds like he was challenging you to push back and you didn't.
2. core abilities will always be the downfall of a decent student. so many people seem to take the approach that it's all about the big picture...and it is important to keep that in mind. but one of the largest things that cripple many people is their inabilities to get the basics down so they can then focus on the larger concepts. whether your professors would like to tell you this or not, it's a very detail oriented profession we're involved in. a meticulous nature will go much further than one that glosses over such intricacies. so be careful about the what you do, think consistency, think how would this be built, and understand what those questions mean. those are the basic ingredients to a good drawing....or to a good instruction manual...which is really what a good drawing is.
definitely seek out a mentor, do what you need to do to make it...but also be careful. understand what will allow you to take charge yourself and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions about why things happen (i.e. don't be afraid to ask the hard questions about yourself in order to effect change).
last word of advice: have fun with it (all). the second you stop doing this you lose. it's a pretty simple thing...if you can make it fun, you will do well.
My first thought after reading your post is to wonder why you don't just quit and get a better job elsewhere?
somehow i have been lucky...or maybe i am just stupid (20 to 1 this is the case). Either way, i have always loved my job, from early internship to now. And it keeps gettin better.
Never did mcmansion, but have done mildly commercial, so can understand a bit about the affliction of non-rewarding architecture in the architect-as-artist sense. But my first job was a fantastic learning experience technically, and i knew enough to treat it as such. The insane hours meant i did about 7 years of work in less than 5, and responsibility was totally thrown onto me from day one.
speaking of which, i fucked up ALL the time cuz i was beyond ignorant, but i asked lots of questions and the office was set up for us to learn on the way...in hindsight it was quite a blast, really. Every day an education. Maybe you will feel better if you treat current job like that...and quit when it is not even an education no more...
My first real job, btw, was begun with me as an illiterate in country where i was working. if you think it is hard to learn to be an architect, try doing it while also learning a seriously foreign language at the same time. Makes life very interesting (i learned all the curse words right away from all the yelling directed at me) !
cheer up, it will only get better.
McTaco,
I was talking with a friend of mine in a completely different profession this weekend. He's having the same anxieties as we architects do. So it's not only architecture that does this to people...it's working life.
Really, though, you're too young to be having a midlife crisis. Save that till you're forty, or at least in your late 30s.
In the meantime, set small goals for yourself. Try to save a couple thousand dollars this year, and then quit your job in January and travel for two months. It will clear your head -- I recommend a trek in Nepal, for instance.
Or work on competitions in your after hours.
Or move to a more creative city (don't know where you are now, but still...) and find a firm whose work you truly love. Work there.
It's easy to feel trapped by our current circumstances. It's easy to forget that the world is filled with literally millions of possibilities. Sometimes the greatest things happen when you give up one dream to pursue another.
You need to be in charge of your life, not your boss or your profession or the confining circumstances you find yourself in.
Keep this in mind: you're 22! You're so incredibly young, with tons of possibility before you. You can do anything you want to right now. You should try a bunch of different things -- don't resign yourself to architecture, or to a miserable life. Try a few different careers. You can always come back to architecture. Find the thing that you really do enjoy.
It's people like me who are 34 (or 44 or 54) who have a harder time making the choice to switch careers. In this respect, I envy you.
hmm...most of what i'd say has already been said...but I wanted to applaud the responses to this thread....Archinect at its best...
34 is YOUNG farwest.
my da quit his job of 20+ years at age of 40 (he was a social worker, became a hospital administrator), sold his house, went to uni, and changed his career entirely. starting out from 0 (no equity, no relevant work exeperience just to start with) at age of 42 is not so easy, but he took challenge head on...my da was always pretty positive though and loved life regardless of work he was doing. i suppose that attitude makes a difference... for me it remains a very cool example to look back on. life, for people in the first world at least, really is entirely what we choose to make it.
I agree, Jump. 34 is really young, particularly for architecture. Most architects' careers don't get going until their late 40's (though at 34, friends of mine in other fields are already well into their careers.)
But I was concerned that McTaco was already cynical and frustrated at age 22, which, in architecture, is your infant years. Hell, I hadn't even STARTED studying architecture at 22.
My dad, too, remained positive through a few career changes. I wonder sometimes whether it's the era -- that people under 40 today have expectations of easy success. And they're easily disappointed.
I think there's two reasons for that, possibly:
1) a sense of entitlement. A lot of kids today (I mean most people under 25, let's say) went through school without fear of failure, because failure in school has been essentially outlawed by the administration. My best friend, his wife, and my mother are all teachers. They aren't allowed to fail students, from what I understand, and I think that when these kids get to the real world, they have a real sense of entitlement.
2) the flipside is that these same kids look at their parents' generation, and see that most of them have had a fairly easy time of it. They were hired out of school (either high school or college), have worked for the same company or two for the past 25 years, and have relatively stable employment. This is certainly not the case for this up-and-coming generation, who'll have several careers, bounce from job to job with very little job security, and may never feel anchored or stable in their home lives due to having to move from state to state (or province to province) chasing jobs which will probably only last them a year. It's a surprise that people aren't MORE cynical and jaded.
Yeah, but don't you think a lot of that job instability now is self imposed? Most of my friends jump every two to three years. My dad, though, has been in his current job for twenty years. And in the previous one for 15.
I COULD have been in my last job for 15 years, but I grew sick of it after a couple and considered my other options.
I guess a lot of us choose not to feel anchored. Maybe cuz we're looking for fame and fortune -- and desk jobs don't really provide that.
The need for immediate gratification in the current generation is something to avoid. I see it in my own kids and I'm as bad as next person to spoil my kids , give them more than what I had as a child, but after this last weekend when I had a complete hissy fit over my son's request for this and that and expectation that he should get it I lost it.
The need to work for something thing respect the attainment of a goal although simple is still a good ideal. Its been said that our current generation will change careers nine times before they die ...that's crazy but I can see how it could happen ( perhaps less for professionals ) but my Dad stayed in a job from the time he was 18 till he retired at 55, paid off his house etc. I still remeber the day he and my mom had a drink in the living room and toasted the occasion.
So please people show some character and tough it out, its not easy but the efforts builds character, integrity and a career that people still respect. I still marvel meeting people who had a tough go of things earlier in life and they always seem more interesting, interested in life and challenged in what they do everyday.
sorry to get off topic here, but i really must take issue with the "sense of entitlement" ....i don't really see the second reason (about the parents) as the flipside, and think there is more to it.
more is expected of the current under-25 age group than has been expected of other generations. by age 26-27, we're supposed to be out of undergrad, finished with grad school, and in a great career we love. oh yeah, and they are also supposed to find a mate and procreate by around this time (30, tops). a lot of the pressure is being imposed by parents...not to place blame, but it is a major factor. sure your mother, friend and friend's wife would all agree that they are not allowed to fail anyone because of the parents, not because of the children.
everyone is bringing up some points that i have been grappling with for the past few weeks. being that i seem to be the middle age in this argument (early 30s) i'm not fully feeling like i have the sense of entitlement attributed to those in their 20s currently, nor do i have the feeling that "toughing things out" is the way to go, as some people in the older generation might feel.
maybe this is just a singular experience, but i can't help but feel that maybe there is something to it.....
okay, now i'm 10 years out of school....most of my career has been spent on the design side, which i am mostly fine with, i have worked on a variety of projects and at at least 4 different offices....although most of the time was spent at one office (5 years). i have been found to be very good at presentation work, but have also been consistently sought out for solving complex coordination issues and design development of more complex geometry detailing....cool. and then i look at what people above me were doing and they were no more a "designer" of the end product than i was....they had no more say. the design partner really drove most design decisions and depending on which one you worked under would determine the amount to which your design studies had a chance in hell of being considered. and there was very little sense of logic to the design process that allowed you to anticipate new design directions...the design process was very internalized and personal with little ability to discuss a larger ambition of the project or agenda for it.
and so you slave developing internalized personal dialogues for years working until 10pm, 12pm, 2am. weekends. and you begin to wonder, why?
so if i "tough it out" for another 10 years i can be that guy? will they even need more design partners in 10 years. the entire office was top heavy to begin with.....and so you chase potential ways of getting to a point of being able to feel that you are actually respected as a professional and have some voice in the process.
which maybe is a sense of entitlement. what was the situation like for these people in their early years in a office?
was their pay as low in proportion to the standard of living, were their hours as long, were they unable to buy a house until their mid-thirties?
in some ways i feel at times part of a lost generation in the profession. but i do have hope. that offices are beginning to happen that are focused differently. that externalize their design dialogue and utilize the resources at their disposal instead of just abusing it.....and maybe just maybe we can begin to right the course of where the profession has seemed to drift.
whistler, i wouldn't be so quick to judge someone else's need for more character.
times are changing, and we've all played our part in it. we didn't just wake up last week with kids expecting an upgrade to a platinum spoon in their mouths. someone put the spoon there.
the younger generation can be blamed for propogating the sense of entitlement, but its seeds were planted well before...
We can lay blame on a bunch of factors, Cdee, but the fact remains that kids who aren't ever told 'NO,' by and large get a rude awakening when they become adults.
One other factor is how the corporate world has restructured relatively recently - outsourcing jobs, of course, but also the issue of how many employers will hire two part time employees instead of one full-time employee, because it's cheaper - no overtime, no benefits, etc... and at the same time, requiring that their part-timers be on call daily.
Gotta go, I'll probably say more later.
I think that's a bit harsh on McTaco. He seems to just be in need of some reassurance from his peers - something we all need at times.
I do agree that the younger generation seems to have less of a sense of deferred gratification, though. There's been lots of debate about this, but it'd be interesting to see the views people on here have. I think if this is the way the discussion goes, though, it should be said aloud that the topic is not related to McTaco's situation. It'd be pretty harsh for a discussion to unfurl about ungrateful youth (I'm 22 myself, so no judging) when his post was so honest.
Personally, I think Fight Club hit the nail on the head when it talks about how we've grown up in an age where success is presented as being easily obtainable (mainly in the media). I guess it could have a lot to do with the expansion and convergence of media in recent years, meaning that the those in the media become seen by more people and become more successful. The people we see most of these days are people in the media, and in today's world to be in that position you pretty much need to be successful already. It's a spiral.
Hmm...lots pf people posted while I typed that. :/
i think it is as simple as this, we are all told growing up that if you work hard you will succeed, and as architecture students, we work really hard, and in a society where success is rated by income, it seems all the hard work was for nothing since success(money) is not flowing in like we think it should. also, there are a lot of other professions that dont require that much work but pay on average much much better starting off. success (by any definition) is attainable in architecture, but you better be prepaired to deal with a lot of shit.
I have to say, with architecture you can get the satisfaction of design as well as production - a rare quality and if that's your thing - which let's face it it is - it's the best situation to be in. However, really successful people usually only have career success. You can't do everything - it's a life choice of many sources of satisfaction, or one source of ecstacy.
Here's the scary thing for me: I worked briefly for a medium sized firm in NYC. Their real heyday was the early 80s, the height of Pomo, and stylistically they're out of date now. They had, like, eight partners -- people who were in their fifties and sixties.
Those people seemed miserable. At 60, when they should have been enjoying their "golden years," they were droning away on not-very-good work, stressed out, having political battles with each other. And for what?
That's the future that I'm desperately trying to avoid.
staying fresh as architect is not easy. my old boss and good friend is like that, farwest 1, still a pomo man, but i think not unhappy. he had 64 large-ish projects in office last year (really more than enough work for 15 architects); apprently someone still likes pomo...;-)
anyway, i think all old people think the young are lazy. it is built in, so easy enough to ignore. at least in a general way.
it is late here in tokyo, and i am drinking some wine while i work, so the world is not particularly clear to me just now...but it is curious to me that 4 of my uncles own their own companies and are quite silly-wealthy; but each grew up on farm, dirt-poor as only farmers can be and only 1 finished high school. But their kids, my cousins, ALL work for their dads. None of them went on to make a life on their own...maybe the problem is not one of entitlement, but dependency...
me, i left home at 17, before i finished high school. We had no money so was easy choice (made mum's life easier too). Dad told me there was no money for uni, so i got a job as a cook and worked my way up to architecture from there. Sometimes being financially challenged is a good thing. at the very least it teaches you to stand up when you want to move on, cuz literally no one is gonna do it for you.
as for toughing it out, well that seems a ripe bag of rubbish to me, unless there is something to stick it out FOR. Figure that "for" out and life gets a hecka lot easier, i think.
Just as an encouragement, I know many architects still in practice in their 70's. They often joke about it being about not having enough for retirement, but clearly isn't the case. They truly enjoyed their career and will continue until they physically can't. I sometimes envy the passion they still have about this profession. They do have their issues with where the profession is going, but who doesn't? And isn't it our responsibility (not limited to the young, I mean "our" as in an architect to be or an architect in practice no matter the age) to be actively pursuing a better future for our chosen profession? Don't just "tough it out," be active by trying to fix the problem even on a small scale.
Sorry if my commentary re: toughing it out was construed as being a suggestion to suffer through it ( architecture ) it was more a suggestion to stick to, and make adjustments for you, your career, the profession. I see my dedication to "toughing it out" as a challenge to make the world a better place.
frankly, i just find the profession absurdly funny in an amazingly tragic way, laughing at myself and fellow archies is what keeps me afloat.
You'll need that pompous ass sense of entightlement - its the only way out. 9 out of 10 will fail but the 1 person, oblivious to their faults, and in love with their own genius will be the one with the will power and risk navigating capabilities to make it. Its really a personality type that suceeds more than anything - and those personalitites are at a minimum in this profesion.
Wow, that was a lot to read... Hi everyone, I just joined archinect, and feel stupid for now knowing about these discussions before hand.
Mc Taco: I, too, am in my twenties and I suffer from the same self-doubt all of the time. I know exactly how you feel. I just graduated a few weeks ago and throughout my whole architectural education (thus far) I have questioned myself, my abilities, my passion, etc. time and time again. As I read all of these discussions, I find myself still doing the same. I wanted to thank you for being so honest on your post because it really spoke to me.
You have some great insight here (that I will use for myself as well). Chch, LibertyBell, Myriam, just to name a few have really inspired me to persist.
As I begin my VERY FIRST REAL JOB in a week, I am terrified. I don't know if school prepared me enough. Or if I didn't prepare myself enough. I did well in school and gain respect from my peers, but I feel like I fall short in a lot of areas. For example, I don't really know how an office works. Although I interned for a few months, I don't feel as if I know enough about CD's and how to even put a real building together.
I'm also a shy, sometimes very insecure, but sometimes totally secure person. Thankfully, I have had great professors that believe in me and have been great inspiration to me. I push through and when I do, I find myself pretty satisfied with the results, but unfortunately, my insecurities can get the best of me.
Anyway, it was nice to know that I'm not alone.
not sure that i'm adding much at this point but i'll pitch in anyway.
mctaco, i'll add myself to the list of those suggesting you look around, or travel, or take some kind of break.
i tried on a lot of different jobs and failing at running my own business before starting to study architecture. i've a long way to go still but am in my first summer job, and after so many jobs where i just hated every bit of it and spent each day going mad inside my own head and wondering how everyone else was appearing to be comfortable doing things i couldn't stand, i am embarrassingly in love with even this shallow end of it, and feel much more positive about actually having a niche in the world than i ever have before. sure, i am not yet jaded and had the good luck to get into a great office that's preparing me as a cad monkey but also throwing me on site and into design, but i know that this feels different.
and if that reads as a comment on entitlement or that you should love it/find something you love about it, i mean the opposite - go and explore and find what makes your brain and heart tingly instead of sad, and pursue it before you've thrown away years pretending it'll get better or trying to avoid going back to school.
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