curious if anyone else has noticed a "clogging" of search engines with the growing number of blogs? for instance, after reading a blog today I tried to search for further info on richard rogers' "ecohat"... almost all of what I got were other blogs referencing other blogs or the initial article...
has this concern come up? is there some kind of wolf/sheep equilibrium based on info/interest?
is there any kind of research into blogs that have died? what factors in to the vitality/life of a given blog?
2cents observation: so blogs are becoming this hodge podge of special interest news/op.ed's that continually breaks down information into smaller and smaller pieces, spreading this web of info further and further apart, aided by faster and faster technology to access multiple or more obscure sources...www sprawl?
of course none of this has anything to do with architecture, just my casual blog observations...
postal, this is the best issue brought up yet, imho. it happens a lot when searching for a particular news with same reporting going around and around, appearing in multiple edited forms.
with blogs, it is usually the same image. it happens more so in so called design blogs.
there is definetly some kind of click count ranking system goes in in internet that i really don't know about. but 'click' is the yardstick of internet.
blogs are more like a self propelled one or four person electronic specialty newspapers, that their success measured with the blog publisher's rigour, range, specialty and ability to stay fresh and exciting. there are only few bloggers that are able to do that and usually they are the ones you see almost all the design blogs' links section.
i guess the sprawl is large, but most people go to 7-11 because they are everywhere and open in working condition 7-24.
anyway, i think it is a very interesting question that i like to hear more about. after all, this is blogopolis isn't it?
ya, i agree. this question is one definitely worth pursuing. i'll try to bring it up in conversation tonight, and at least invite some others to come here and share their thoughts.
namby, thanks for the comment. i realize that. but mostly i'm thinking that an event like this, meant to present and suggest possibilities and alternatives to the typical way we do things, could (should?) take it upon itself to insist on a real diversity of representation and fuck shit up. i'm also thinking where are the queers and trannies, but i should research more before saying that out loud. will be checking it out on saturday.
orhan, was that previous caption post for me? i'm kinda honored and touched. you're the best!
super,
the post wasn't for you per se, but it was clearly inspired by your post. i do understand the broader meaning of your question and i think you should definetly persue a response upon your visit to storefront. i suppose the beauty of postopolis is that, it's diverse enough so nothing is out of context. like yours, i do support some direct and investigative questioning of the event and i would think some of the participants i know there would also appreciate that. i don't think events like this can be called successful if there is no challenge.
~~~
now,
i was addicted to arabic poetry and its mathematical construction at an early age, so if you see some snarky rhymes in my post/s, just ignore/enjoy them.
as for being the best, yes, there is a grain of truth in it.. thank you!
Blogs, Bloggers, Their Readers and the Postopolis.
After 'seeing' (initially, print is read, internet is seen, imo) the first announcement in Archinect, I must say, my interest in Postopolis started with the simple question of, "Really?"
At once, I was excited and curious and felt good that two of the participants I regularly read here and in their own Blogs, are involved.
Blogs, for me, are like daily specialty magazines that their specialty contains subjects of math, other science, art, architecture, future, present, schooling, patterns, beliefs, cultures, food, random research, social interaction, politics , power, sports, math, science, food, education, personal wealth, design, personal wealth, education, and loop and loop and repat after me...
So, their specialty, if I may borrow the word, is 'sprawl of opinion and information, process anything visible or not.' And, they are bit like catalytic converters in the pens of working bloggers, who often wanting to be a part of the solution.
In a way, it is time to look at bloggers as individual artists, considering most blogs are the works of single individuals contuniously processing, editing, searching further, commenting, answering the comments, always preparing new material. If you think you work 'hard', consider bloggers; 'hardcore'.
One function of effective *design blog is (*blog that is based on built and imagined environments in general), it's tremendous impact on design education. Architecture and design students learn their theory, practice and what-not within the blogs and do their project in school, often presenting to a faculty who read these blogs and, at times, participate in them.
It is safe to say, blogs and the web sites like Archinect, quickly becoming the omnipresent institutions within most design schools. They are, nowdays, sort of virtual classrooms and forums that serve hundreds if not thousands, of students at once. No wonder that actual heads of leading design schools are heavily interested in being present in these blogs.
Please note that academia is only one reader type. There are others;
young and old professionals who cannot satisfy their appetite for intellectual action in sterile office environments, other artists and curators, futurists, cooks, advocates, etc, etc.(no loop this time.)
Power of blogs must not be undermined. It can connect the readers to a tunnel in a border town, pick them up from there and take them to a bird's eye view of an environmental pollution site in Central Asia or talk about gondolas in New Orleans. It is the beauty of dynamically linkable web writing. It is fast, but the food is good.
Postopolis is not enough, but it is an all new salutation Raygun, officially announcing the new click powered giant. An actual shift on educational systems, politics of built environment and power shift in media world.
Innovations welcome. 7-24. Who you gonna click?
Blogs are now available in top architectural schools and professional circles, DSL is helpful but not necessary.
Don't think blogs are anything less...
Like Archinect;
register, see-read-learn-discuss-participate-find a job and find more.
Free of tiution fees.
Really...
(6/2/07,11;30 am)
Jun 2, 07 3:01 pm ·
·
Blog
is shorthand for web log.
www.quondam.com has been web logging about architecture and virtuality since 21 November 1996.
from Quondam's current front page:
D. Diederichsen's review of Mike Kelley's (forthcoming) Foul Perfection in Artforum January 2003 contains a poignant Kelley quotation:
"Official art culture is much more effective in its control of history than Republican strategists, for it knows that the best way to treat contradictory material is not to rail against it, but simply to pretend it didn't happen."
I like this quotation because it provides a clear indication of what real/true history comprises.
I think you're quite right metamechanic. Paul Virilio trained as an architect, and taught architecture for thirty years at the University of Paris (which one I can't remember).
1:30pm: Conversation with Mark Wigley (MW)
Somehow Mark Wigley ended up in Lisbon and Beatriz Colomina in Quebec. Geoff (GM) and the rest of the organizers tried a phone interview for Wigley, but, proving to be a hard logistical effort, they did not do it with Colomina.
During the mega interview Mark Wigley talked about many issues including:
-What if architecture schools become blogs? You would have a different type of building and architect. What would that difference be?
-They are trying to cut the price of Volume by half so that it can better "agitate".
-According to MW, the Archinect thread on Volume was more Volume than Volume
-MW spoke about the life of a thread, the idea of decay, and the "line of idiocy". He believes that it is imperative for threads to decay in order for them to have real impact and capture a certain moment. The decay comes as "idiots" start taking the thread off subject, then the "anti-idiots" act as a police force saying that the thread has been taken off subject, re-caping the issues brought up and putting the final dagger into the thread.
He believes that blogs and forums ala Archinect work because they are fearless about the "idiot", they invite him and her to participate. While inviting the "idiot" you also invite the "brilliant" and it is at that line between "idiocy" and "brilliance" it is that you find real intelligence. In his opinion this is the advantage of digital media over traditional forms of communication.
-As blogs become more and more popular do they become the conservative establishment?
-The new architect WILL be part of the blogosphere, even if he or she does not hold a blog.
2:30pm Keller Easterling
Easterling's lecture had to do with her book "Enduring Innocence". I really cannot add anything to the MIT press description fron the link above, so I will let someone else in the Archinect staff fill you in on this one.
4:40pm: A panel about Archinect with John Jourden, Aaron Plewke, Enrique Ramirez, Bryan Finoki, Jill Fehrenbacher, Geoff Manaugh, Susan Surface, and myself (Quilian Riano).
It is hard to write about a panel you were in yourself... all I can say is that it was a pleasure to be up there with this crew. We focused on the School Blog project, the discussion board, and mapa as an example of the involvement and motivation of archinect members and the very real positive effect that can have.
John, Quilian, Bryan, Jill
Aaron, Enrique, Susan, John
Aaron, Enrique, Susan, John, Quilian
Quillian, that recap of the Wigley phone interview above sounds amazing. Real Intelligence as the line between brilliance and idiocy, the Volume thread as more Volume than Volume, cutting the price of Volume in half ... genius.
Wish I could have heard that. Was that recorded in any way?
Jun 3, 07 10:53 am ·
·
For Wigley's remarks to have any credence, some qualification is needed, but don't overlook the fact that Wigley did not even participate in the open Volumn discussion (which already discounts his remarks as far as I'm concerned).
So who are the idiots? Again, qualify the statement to prove that there even were idiots?
Name calling is somewhat idiotic itself, isn't it?
I think lurking is a form of participation, the implied presence of an audience has effects on the show.
In re: Idiots. It's a decent catch-all term for how we all behave sometimes. Sniping, arguing, self promotion, dumb jokes, near-schizophrenic word salad, nonsense, these things happen when there are low barriers to entry in a conversation.
Who are the idiots? The idiots are us. Where does Real Intelligence come from? It comes from us, too. Because idiocy is a necessary precondition for it's production. I'm just riffing, I didn't hear what was actually said, but that's what Quillian's summary above implies.
larslarson... i like the photos showing some of the final decay in the setup... the paper peeling off, the bottles accumulating, the peeling ceiling [although this will stay i guess]. just the fact that this event is being put to bed. good times were had and now it's time to end it. maybe another one next year? i hope so.
in the meantime, i'd like to hear more about that final discussion on archinect. come on guys!
Jun 3, 07 4:50 pm ·
·
I see, so next it's gonna be idiotnect @ IDIOTOPOLIS!
You might not like the word idiot, but I think it's quite a good observation - that all the thread-hijacking and flirting and incomprehensible digressions are a necessary part of an active web forum. Would you contend that such things don't exist, or would you just prefer a different term for them?
i think 765 sums it up well, and i agree that reading a thread and not posting to it (lurking) is a form of participation. also, the term idiot was used, admittedly, as a catch-all for a situation we're all familiar with but don't have a name for.
Stephen, what credentials does Wigley (or anyone for that matter) need to make qualified statements?
Jun 3, 07 6:19 pm ·
·
First off, lurking is lurking, and hardly participation.
I quickly scanned over the Volumn thread before calling Wigley on the 'line of idiocy' and found no idiocy. In fact, the thread pretty much remained on topic. Yes, there was some satire, but no decay.
Personally, I see the 'idiot' calling as an all too common ploy to dodge real criticism, of which the Volumn harbored a lot of.
i should probably google "idiot" since, honestly, i'm not really sure what it means...of course, i'm too sure who wigley is either...but if i'm not mistaken, wasn't the creator of the "less money" t-shirt there?...that's pretty cool, right?
It sounds like he's acknowledging the criticism on the thread, Stephen, if he called it more Volume than Volume, said it generated insights, and then directly answered one of the recurring themes by suggesting the price was going down. How's that dodging?
Anyway, it's pointless without an actual transcript.
And this thread is now drifting, too.
I don't mind being called an idiot, I've certainly acted like one, here and elsewhere.
Jun 3, 07 7:03 pm ·
·
765, I didn't say that the items you mentioned are where I see the dodging. I said the 'idiot' calling was. Whether you mind being called an idiot isn't the point, rather, where is the 'line of idiocy' and 'decay' in the Volumn thread?
The dna of any good conversation is made up of free association, irreverent extemporizing, playful posturing, heated proselytising and incisive recapitulation, sometimes washed down with a dash of rebarbative non-sequiturs—for starters; and not always. It’s an open-ended negotiation that admits all voices and whose ultimate goal is not a stentorian pronouncement that aspires to be an absolute but rather the more modest goal of just being in the world and creating culture around shared values.
I would submit that stigmatizing digression by using the “idiots” epithet is in fact the summit of idiocy. It reflects a private contempt that secretely desires hegemony. I can’t imagine how tedious and uncreative this place would be without the anarchic banter that both bores and binds the community at the same time. Mr. Wigley, you should have girded yourself for the blowback you met—that you didn’t, unfortunately, says much.
I could surmise that this “idiot” stuff smacks of sour grapes. But funnily enough, when he says that the “Archinect thread on Volume was more Volume than Volume” he may plausibly be implying that Volume is also guilty of a similar idiocy: Ich bin ein Archinecter Mr. Wigley? On the other hand it could also mean that Volume works hard to purge as much “idiocy” as possible before going to press. Personally, I’d like to think that Volume aspires to be more “idiotic” because it intuits a profound vitality residing here and desires it muchly.
Perhaps Mr. Wigley would be so kind as to grace us with his presence and lay the matter to rest. After all, Archinect was most gracious in according Volume pride of place in one of the most fruitfully chaordic architectural forums on the web. And don’t worry Mr. Wigley, I can’t speak for the other hardies here but I bear you no grudge. You are a credit to the profession for rejecting the beaten path, and your flagrant “idiocy” has now made you one of us. Welcome to Archinect! It just so happens that Libeskind was on the radio trumpeting his crystal the other day and had this to say on the matter at hand.
“For the Greeks, idiot meant private person.”
Before I finish I’d just like to offer one very public suggestion:
Why not ask Rem to kick in one of his seven figure commissions and give the magazine away for a year. As Orhan astutely pointed out, the CONTENT here at Archinect is free. It’s a heady and rich blend that would be the envy of any architectural institution. You can’t compete with us at your price point, even if you halve it. I’ll also ask you to consider jettisoning AMO next year and asking Foster and partners to generously “curate” the next round…and so on ‘round the globe. Architecture has no Hippocratic oath but the AIA does have a code of ethics and part of its aim is to edify its patrons rather than patronizing an edifice, n’est-ce pas?
Congratuations to all senators of Postopolis! You have earned much deserved praise and are now a force to be reckoned with. May you wield it wisely.
@Xentr0phy,
I agree,
I am often the idot, the lurker.
However, i would hope that
"Personally, I’d like to think that Volume aspires to be more “idiotic” because it intuits a profound vitality residing here and desires it muchly."
Lurking is silence and silence is a key aspect of any editing process.
Historical or otherwise.
I may not be engaged in the Events such as Postopolis but i am awarer because of this forum and others.
very well put xentr0py. especially the beginning...
and this is certainly on message.
*Wigley called no idiocy on the Volume thread, but was using the term to describe a phenomenon that does commonly occur when there are low barriers to entry into a conversation, which is typical of blogs and open internet fora. at the same time, he did say (as Quilian says above) that the discussion's fruit is between idiocy and brilliance.
just to clarify.
he blamed the idiot (and the way others respond to the idiot) for thread decay/death. and i don't think his idiot is a lurker.
he clearly stated that the level of discourse on that thread was impressive and insightful.
another thing that came up, albiet briefly: Geoff had a question/comment regarding idiocy in the academic institution, and Wigley agreed that the academy allows/promotes going through the mechanics of thinking w/o actually thinking...
...it would be nice for Wigley to come here and engage this discussion in this place. his physical absence at Postopolis was unfortunate, in particular because i believe the subject matter would have been hashed out more thoroughly had he been in the room with us...the immediacy of face to face interaction...
Threads on Archinect constantly remind me that I'm an idiot. I love that.
re: the use of "idiot" vis a vis the Volume thread: not really appropriate, correct, as the Volume thread was moderated to remain on topic, unlike typical threads?
AP, thanks for the suit - I admire a person who will dress snappily even in heat. Snazzy indeed.
I will need to consider this notion that lurkers are an audience and that posters perhaps (un)selfconsiously edit what they post with an audience in mind. I have only considered threads to be conversations, which may explain why most of my posting is reacting to what others say (I direct statements at people often via calling out their name).
Maybe every thread needs something to react against, so even the most blisteringly intelligent poster can be seen by me as an "idiot" when they say something I don't agree with?
lb - I remember John or Paul or somebody saying that they didn't end up doing any moderation on the Volume (it's spelled with an e) thread.
To anybody else who's afraid of being called out as an idiot: looks like y'all just got a little agitated.
Whutt??!!
Jun 3, 07 10:48 pm ·
·
As the real person that likely has more experience with "threads" than anyone else within this virtual discussion--starting in 1997 at architecthetics, then design-l, archipol, lt-antiq, duchamp bb board, artforum/talkback, and archinect, and the 3 volumns of QBVS are a testament to a good bit of all that--'lines of idiocy' are the most insignificant part of it all, and really not all the much of a frequent occurance. Unfortunately, the real decay stems from most people finding/treating the whole past history of web logging as insignificant, that is, if they even know that there is such a history.
Postopolis, yeah, been there and done that long before last week.
I'm a N00B to architecture blogs, and I don't mean to denegrate the conversation by exposing my ignorance and naivete about online communities and public space. If idiocy is a necessary role to play in this space, then I'll don that hat. wear that coat, put on those shoes. I'll listen, and I like to dance too!
I have a lot of catching up to do... thank you for the brief history of this exploration.
I think the wonderful thing about Postopolis! was the integration of urban experience (re-enlivening an old storefront) with online idiocy and venerability. I agree all good things decay. I think this will have an exquisite degradation.
Though, I have to say the exhibition design was tooo, shall we say, conceptual?
I appreciate the spirit of wall-papering the back wall with A4 printouts, but who ever had time to read any of that stuff? who would? why wallpaper at such a small font? The scale was too small for my myopia. the dichotomy between urban-sized logos and the interior was clear. the experience, a little lacking...
I felt a little left out. but maybe that's just me and my relationship to small fonts.
that said, I had a great time! and find all of this fascinating and look forward to paying attention to the community of spatial syntehsizers more. Enjoyed meeting a few of you IRL, too.
:)
Jun 3, 07 11:20 pm ·
·
Misspellings of Volume and occurrence aside, the real point is that there are not idiots constantly, let alone necessarily, participating within architecture threads throughout the Internet. Letting go of that myth kind of forces the issue of what really is being said.
Jun 3, 07 11:32 pm ·
·
You mean reckless?
Jun 3, 07 11:49 pm ·
·
I'd say a de-territorialized critic is even more dangerous.
Jun 3, 07 11:54 pm ·
·
Not so much outside, rather, more beyond inside. Very much in the territory, but not within the normal restraints of the territory.
If you're in the fourth dimension, does that mean you can have your cake and eat it too?
i didn't think wigley meant 'idiots' or 'idiocy' as a pejorative. i also thought the 'more volume than volume' comment was VERY complimentary: basically an observation that more stirring/agitation happened in that one conversation - and that it possibly reached a broader range of people in a greater variety of places and circumstances - than the book/artifact they've compiled has been able to generate thus far.
and, while stepen's correct that a lot of the content of blogs is NOT about the drift and diversion driven by idiots - a lot of them are just people talking to themselves and others who accidentally click in - i do think that those passages where the unexpected/unintended conversations happen are when i get most engaged and therefore learn the most.
Archinect @ Postopolis!
here are a handful of places that have recently blogged Postopolis:
LVHRD
Mediabistro
Spacing Wire
Noisy Decent Graphics
Influx Insights
Pruned
Archidose
architecture.mnp
Progressive Reactionary
curious if anyone else has noticed a "clogging" of search engines with the growing number of blogs? for instance, after reading a blog today I tried to search for further info on richard rogers' "ecohat"... almost all of what I got were other blogs referencing other blogs or the initial article...
has this concern come up? is there some kind of wolf/sheep equilibrium based on info/interest?
is there any kind of research into blogs that have died? what factors in to the vitality/life of a given blog?
2cents observation: so blogs are becoming this hodge podge of special interest news/op.ed's that continually breaks down information into smaller and smaller pieces, spreading this web of info further and further apart, aided by faster and faster technology to access multiple or more obscure sources...www sprawl?
of course none of this has anything to do with architecture, just my casual blog observations...
postal, this is the best issue brought up yet, imho. it happens a lot when searching for a particular news with same reporting going around and around, appearing in multiple edited forms.
with blogs, it is usually the same image. it happens more so in so called design blogs.
there is definetly some kind of click count ranking system goes in in internet that i really don't know about. but 'click' is the yardstick of internet.
blogs are more like a self propelled one or four person electronic specialty newspapers, that their success measured with the blog publisher's rigour, range, specialty and ability to stay fresh and exciting. there are only few bloggers that are able to do that and usually they are the ones you see almost all the design blogs' links section.
i guess the sprawl is large, but most people go to 7-11 because they are everywhere and open in working condition 7-24.
anyway, i think it is a very interesting question that i like to hear more about. after all, this is blogopolis isn't it?
ya, i agree. this question is one definitely worth pursuing. i'll try to bring it up in conversation tonight, and at least invite some others to come here and share their thoughts.
namby, thanks for the comment. i realize that. but mostly i'm thinking that an event like this, meant to present and suggest possibilities and alternatives to the typical way we do things, could (should?) take it upon itself to insist on a real diversity of representation and fuck shit up. i'm also thinking where are the queers and trannies, but i should research more before saying that out loud. will be checking it out on saturday.
orhan, was that previous caption post for me? i'm kinda honored and touched. you're the best!
super,
the post wasn't for you per se, but it was clearly inspired by your post. i do understand the broader meaning of your question and i think you should definetly persue a response upon your visit to storefront. i suppose the beauty of postopolis is that, it's diverse enough so nothing is out of context. like yours, i do support some direct and investigative questioning of the event and i would think some of the participants i know there would also appreciate that. i don't think events like this can be called successful if there is no challenge.
~~~
now,
i was addicted to arabic poetry and its mathematical construction at an early age, so if you see some snarky rhymes in my post/s, just ignore/enjoy them.
as for being the best, yes, there is a grain of truth in it.. thank you!
After 'seeing' (initially, print is read, internet is seen, imo) the first announcement in Archinect, I must say, my interest in Postopolis started with the simple question of, "Really?"
At once, I was excited and curious and felt good that two of the participants I regularly read here and in their own Blogs, are involved.
Blogs, for me, are like daily specialty magazines that their specialty contains subjects of math, other science, art, architecture, future, present, schooling, patterns, beliefs, cultures, food, random research, social interaction, politics , power, sports, math, science, food, education, personal wealth, design, personal wealth, education, and loop and loop and repat after me...
So, their specialty, if I may borrow the word, is 'sprawl of opinion and information, process anything visible or not.' And, they are bit like catalytic converters in the pens of working bloggers, who often wanting to be a part of the solution.
In a way, it is time to look at bloggers as individual artists, considering most blogs are the works of single individuals contuniously processing, editing, searching further, commenting, answering the comments, always preparing new material. If you think you work 'hard', consider bloggers; 'hardcore'.
One function of effective *design blog is (*blog that is based on built and imagined environments in general), it's tremendous impact on design education. Architecture and design students learn their theory, practice and what-not within the blogs and do their project in school, often presenting to a faculty who read these blogs and, at times, participate in them.
It is safe to say, blogs and the web sites like Archinect, quickly becoming the omnipresent institutions within most design schools. They are, nowdays, sort of virtual classrooms and forums that serve hundreds if not thousands, of students at once. No wonder that actual heads of leading design schools are heavily interested in being present in these blogs.
Please note that academia is only one reader type. There are others;
young and old professionals who cannot satisfy their appetite for intellectual action in sterile office environments, other artists and curators, futurists, cooks, advocates, etc, etc.(no loop this time.)
Power of blogs must not be undermined. It can connect the readers to a tunnel in a border town, pick them up from there and take them to a bird's eye view of an environmental pollution site in Central Asia or talk about gondolas in New Orleans. It is the beauty of dynamically linkable web writing. It is fast, but the food is good.
Postopolis is not enough, but it is an all new salutation Raygun, officially announcing the new click powered giant. An actual shift on educational systems, politics of built environment and power shift in media world.
Innovations welcome. 7-24. Who you gonna click?
Blogs are now available in top architectural schools and professional circles, DSL is helpful but not necessary.
Don't think blogs are anything less...
Like Archinect;
register, see-read-learn-discuss-participate-find a job and find more.
Free of tiution fees.
Really...
(6/2/07,11;30 am)
is shorthand for web log.
www.quondam.com has been web logging about architecture and virtuality since 21 November 1996.
from Quondam's current front page:
D. Diederichsen's review of Mike Kelley's (forthcoming) Foul Perfection in Artforum January 2003 contains a poignant Kelley quotation:
"Official art culture is much more effective in its control of history than Republican strategists, for it knows that the best way to treat contradictory material is not to rail against it, but simply to pretend it didn't happen."
I like this quotation because it provides a clear indication of what real/true history comprises.
I think you're quite right metamechanic. Paul Virilio trained as an architect, and taught architecture for thirty years at the University of Paris (which one I can't remember).
check out LOL Postopolis! by Pruned:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pruned/
1:30pm: Conversation with Mark Wigley (MW)
Somehow Mark Wigley ended up in Lisbon and Beatriz Colomina in Quebec. Geoff (GM) and the rest of the organizers tried a phone interview for Wigley, but, proving to be a hard logistical effort, they did not do it with Colomina.
During the mega interview Mark Wigley talked about many issues including:
-What if architecture schools become blogs? You would have a different type of building and architect. What would that difference be?
-They are trying to cut the price of Volume by half so that it can better "agitate".
-According to MW, the Archinect thread on Volume was more Volume than Volume
-MW spoke about the life of a thread, the idea of decay, and the "line of idiocy". He believes that it is imperative for threads to decay in order for them to have real impact and capture a certain moment. The decay comes as "idiots" start taking the thread off subject, then the "anti-idiots" act as a police force saying that the thread has been taken off subject, re-caping the issues brought up and putting the final dagger into the thread.
He believes that blogs and forums ala Archinect work because they are fearless about the "idiot", they invite him and her to participate. While inviting the "idiot" you also invite the "brilliant" and it is at that line between "idiocy" and "brilliance" it is that you find real intelligence. In his opinion this is the advantage of digital media over traditional forms of communication.
-As blogs become more and more popular do they become the conservative establishment?
-The new architect WILL be part of the blogosphere, even if he or she does not hold a blog.
2:30pm Keller Easterling
Easterling's lecture had to do with her book "Enduring Innocence". I really cannot add anything to the MIT press description fron the link above, so I will let someone else in the Archinect staff fill you in on this one.
4:40pm: A panel about Archinect with John Jourden, Aaron Plewke, Enrique Ramirez, Bryan Finoki, Jill Fehrenbacher, Geoff Manaugh, Susan Surface, and myself (Quilian Riano).
It is hard to write about a panel you were in yourself... all I can say is that it was a pleasure to be up there with this crew. We focused on the School Blog project, the discussion board, and mapa as an example of the involvement and motivation of archinect members and the very real positive effect that can have.
John, Quilian, Bryan, Jill
Aaron, Enrique, Susan, John
Aaron, Enrique, Susan, John, Quilian
More images:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/quilian/sets/72157600284832772/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/342363@N25/pool/
PARTY!!
retroactive, for lb:
snazzy suit on Robert Neuwirth. the image doesn't do the texture of the material justice...
Photo by Dan Hill, City of Sound
Quillian, that recap of the Wigley phone interview above sounds amazing. Real Intelligence as the line between brilliance and idiocy, the Volume thread as more Volume than Volume, cutting the price of Volume in half ... genius.
Wish I could have heard that. Was that recorded in any way?
For Wigley's remarks to have any credence, some qualification is needed, but don't overlook the fact that Wigley did not even participate in the open Volumn discussion (which already discounts his remarks as far as I'm concerned).
So who are the idiots? Again, qualify the statement to prove that there even were idiots?
Name calling is somewhat idiotic itself, isn't it?
idiots...how delightful
[urlhttp://flickr.com/photos/larslarson/sets/72157600304863104/]random imagery from postopolis[/url]
I think lurking is a form of participation, the implied presence of an audience has effects on the show.
In re: Idiots. It's a decent catch-all term for how we all behave sometimes. Sniping, arguing, self promotion, dumb jokes, near-schizophrenic word salad, nonsense, these things happen when there are low barriers to entry in a conversation.
Who are the idiots? The idiots are us. Where does Real Intelligence come from? It comes from us, too. Because idiocy is a necessary precondition for it's production. I'm just riffing, I didn't hear what was actually said, but that's what Quillian's summary above implies.
I'm an idiot.
Revenge of the idiots
larslarson... i like the photos showing some of the final decay in the setup... the paper peeling off, the bottles accumulating, the peeling ceiling [although this will stay i guess]. just the fact that this event is being put to bed. good times were had and now it's time to end it. maybe another one next year? i hope so.
in the meantime, i'd like to hear more about that final discussion on archinect. come on guys!
I see, so next it's gonna be idiotnect @ IDIOTOPOLIS!
You might not like the word idiot, but I think it's quite a good observation - that all the thread-hijacking and flirting and incomprehensible digressions are a necessary part of an active web forum. Would you contend that such things don't exist, or would you just prefer a different term for them?
i think 765 sums it up well, and i agree that reading a thread and not posting to it (lurking) is a form of participation. also, the term idiot was used, admittedly, as a catch-all for a situation we're all familiar with but don't have a name for.
Stephen, what credentials does Wigley (or anyone for that matter) need to make qualified statements?
First off, lurking is lurking, and hardly participation.
I quickly scanned over the Volumn thread before calling Wigley on the 'line of idiocy' and found no idiocy. In fact, the thread pretty much remained on topic. Yes, there was some satire, but no decay.
Personally, I see the 'idiot' calling as an all too common ploy to dodge real criticism, of which the Volumn harbored a lot of.
...of which the Volumn thread harbored a lot of.
i should probably google "idiot" since, honestly, i'm not really sure what it means...of course, i'm too sure who wigley is either...but if i'm not mistaken, wasn't the creator of the "less money" t-shirt there?...that's pretty cool, right?
It sounds like he's acknowledging the criticism on the thread, Stephen, if he called it more Volume than Volume, said it generated insights, and then directly answered one of the recurring themes by suggesting the price was going down. How's that dodging?
Anyway, it's pointless without an actual transcript.
And this thread is now drifting, too.
I don't mind being called an idiot, I've certainly acted like one, here and elsewhere.
765, I didn't say that the items you mentioned are where I see the dodging. I said the 'idiot' calling was. Whether you mind being called an idiot isn't the point, rather, where is the 'line of idiocy' and 'decay' in the Volumn thread?
Nor is this thread drifting.
The dna of any good conversation is made up of free association, irreverent extemporizing, playful posturing, heated proselytising and incisive recapitulation, sometimes washed down with a dash of rebarbative non-sequiturs—for starters; and not always. It’s an open-ended negotiation that admits all voices and whose ultimate goal is not a stentorian pronouncement that aspires to be an absolute but rather the more modest goal of just being in the world and creating culture around shared values.
I would submit that stigmatizing digression by using the “idiots” epithet is in fact the summit of idiocy. It reflects a private contempt that secretely desires hegemony. I can’t imagine how tedious and uncreative this place would be without the anarchic banter that both bores and binds the community at the same time. Mr. Wigley, you should have girded yourself for the blowback you met—that you didn’t, unfortunately, says much.
I could surmise that this “idiot” stuff smacks of sour grapes. But funnily enough, when he says that the “Archinect thread on Volume was more Volume than Volume” he may plausibly be implying that Volume is also guilty of a similar idiocy: Ich bin ein Archinecter Mr. Wigley? On the other hand it could also mean that Volume works hard to purge as much “idiocy” as possible before going to press. Personally, I’d like to think that Volume aspires to be more “idiotic” because it intuits a profound vitality residing here and desires it muchly.
Perhaps Mr. Wigley would be so kind as to grace us with his presence and lay the matter to rest. After all, Archinect was most gracious in according Volume pride of place in one of the most fruitfully chaordic architectural forums on the web. And don’t worry Mr. Wigley, I can’t speak for the other hardies here but I bear you no grudge. You are a credit to the profession for rejecting the beaten path, and your flagrant “idiocy” has now made you one of us. Welcome to Archinect! It just so happens that Libeskind was on the radio trumpeting his crystal the other day and had this to say on the matter at hand.
“For the Greeks, idiot meant private person.”
Before I finish I’d just like to offer one very public suggestion:
Why not ask Rem to kick in one of his seven figure commissions and give the magazine away for a year. As Orhan astutely pointed out, the CONTENT here at Archinect is free. It’s a heady and rich blend that would be the envy of any architectural institution. You can’t compete with us at your price point, even if you halve it. I’ll also ask you to consider jettisoning AMO next year and asking Foster and partners to generously “curate” the next round…and so on ‘round the globe. Architecture has no Hippocratic oath but the AIA does have a code of ethics and part of its aim is to edify its patrons rather than patronizing an edifice, n’est-ce pas?
Congratuations to all senators of Postopolis! You have earned much deserved praise and are now a force to be reckoned with. May you wield it wisely.
sorry, meant to say that i didn't know who wigley was
who is wigley? or should i just google that too?
at least we're not still talking about the racial/ethnic makeup of postopolis
@Xentr0phy,
I agree,
I am often the idot, the lurker.
However, i would hope that
"Personally, I’d like to think that Volume aspires to be more “idiotic” because it intuits a profound vitality residing here and desires it muchly."
Lurking is silence and silence is a key aspect of any editing process.
Historical or otherwise.
I may not be engaged in the Events such as Postopolis but i am awarer because of this forum and others.
very well put xentr0py. especially the beginning...
and this is certainly on message.
*Wigley called no idiocy on the Volume thread, but was using the term to describe a phenomenon that does commonly occur when there are low barriers to entry into a conversation, which is typical of blogs and open internet fora. at the same time, he did say (as Quilian says above) that the discussion's fruit is between idiocy and brilliance.
just to clarify.
he blamed the idiot (and the way others respond to the idiot) for thread decay/death. and i don't think his idiot is a lurker.
he clearly stated that the level of discourse on that thread was impressive and insightful.
another thing that came up, albiet briefly: Geoff had a question/comment regarding idiocy in the academic institution, and Wigley agreed that the academy allows/promotes going through the mechanics of thinking w/o actually thinking...
...it would be nice for Wigley to come here and engage this discussion in this place. his physical absence at Postopolis was unfortunate, in particular because i believe the subject matter would have been hashed out more thoroughly had he been in the room with us...the immediacy of face to face interaction...
Threads on Archinect constantly remind me that I'm an idiot. I love that.
re: the use of "idiot" vis a vis the Volume thread: not really appropriate, correct, as the Volume thread was moderated to remain on topic, unlike typical threads?
AP, thanks for the suit - I admire a person who will dress snappily even in heat. Snazzy indeed.
I will need to consider this notion that lurkers are an audience and that posters perhaps (un)selfconsiously edit what they post with an audience in mind. I have only considered threads to be conversations, which may explain why most of my posting is reacting to what others say (I direct statements at people often via calling out their name).
Maybe every thread needs something to react against, so even the most blisteringly intelligent poster can be seen by me as an "idiot" when they say something I don't agree with?
Put me down as another fan of xentropy's first paragraph above, too. Super sharp writing.
Here's a link so puddles doesn't have to google: link.
Are you on crazy pills, puddles?
lb - I remember John or Paul or somebody saying that they didn't end up doing any moderation on the Volume (it's spelled with an e) thread.
To anybody else who's afraid of being called out as an idiot: looks like y'all just got a little agitated.
Whutt??!!
As the real person that likely has more experience with "threads" than anyone else within this virtual discussion--starting in 1997 at architecthetics, then design-l, archipol, lt-antiq, duchamp bb board, artforum/talkback, and archinect, and the 3 volumns of QBVS are a testament to a good bit of all that--'lines of idiocy' are the most insignificant part of it all, and really not all the much of a frequent occurance. Unfortunately, the real decay stems from most people finding/treating the whole past history of web logging as insignificant, that is, if they even know that there is such a history.
Postopolis, yeah, been there and done that long before last week.
I'm a N00B to architecture blogs, and I don't mean to denegrate the conversation by exposing my ignorance and naivete about online communities and public space. If idiocy is a necessary role to play in this space, then I'll don that hat. wear that coat, put on those shoes. I'll listen, and I like to dance too!
I have a lot of catching up to do... thank you for the brief history of this exploration.
I think the wonderful thing about Postopolis! was the integration of urban experience (re-enlivening an old storefront) with online idiocy and venerability. I agree all good things decay. I think this will have an exquisite degradation.
Though, I have to say the exhibition design was tooo, shall we say, conceptual?
I appreciate the spirit of wall-papering the back wall with A4 printouts, but who ever had time to read any of that stuff? who would? why wallpaper at such a small font? The scale was too small for my myopia. the dichotomy between urban-sized logos and the interior was clear. the experience, a little lacking...
I felt a little left out. but maybe that's just me and my relationship to small fonts.
that said, I had a great time! and find all of this fascinating and look forward to paying attention to the community of spatial syntehsizers more. Enjoyed meeting a few of you IRL, too.
:)
Misspellings of Volume and occurrence aside, the real point is that there are not idiots constantly, let alone necessarily, participating within architecture threads throughout the Internet. Letting go of that myth kind of forces the issue of what really is being said.
You mean reckless?
I'd say a de-territorialized critic is even more dangerous.
Not so much outside, rather, more beyond inside. Very much in the territory, but not within the normal restraints of the territory.
If you're in the fourth dimension, does that mean you can have your cake and eat it too?
i didn't think wigley meant 'idiots' or 'idiocy' as a pejorative. i also thought the 'more volume than volume' comment was VERY complimentary: basically an observation that more stirring/agitation happened in that one conversation - and that it possibly reached a broader range of people in a greater variety of places and circumstances - than the book/artifact they've compiled has been able to generate thus far.
and, while stepen's correct that a lot of the content of blogs is NOT about the drift and diversion driven by idiots - a lot of them are just people talking to themselves and others who accidentally click in - i do think that those passages where the unexpected/unintended conversations happen are when i get most engaged and therefore learn the most.
viva postopolis!
read gogol's "the nose" it seems to be an appropriate analogy. signed-the lurker
viva post-postopolis!
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