when are apps due?

depends on the schools Dec 1 - Jan 15

when's the latest you can take the GRE? what's a good amount of time to study for them?

GRE is a computer based in the US so basically you can book it any day or time that the testing center has a slot open. It depends upon your testing center. Check out http://gre.org. I too am applying to grad schools. I am taking the GRE in mid October...giving me plenty of time to put together my portfolio and essays or procrastinate profusely.

Is computer-based GRE just an option, or has the traditional paper-based test become obsolete?

There is no advantage that I'm aware of for getting an application in early. I know that some schools claim to receive more than 80% of all applications within 1 week of the deadline.

There are many schools that will NOT defer admissions for a year and would require you to reapply - so if your real plan is to defer a year then be sure to check the policies of the schools in which you're interested.

isn't the usual work ethic in arch design to "never be able to finish"? and that's why portfolios are most likely going to be in the offices about one week before deadlines... so i think handing it in later is to your advantage in general..

You know, that's so true. During undergrad, there were more than a few kids, that were going directly into the grad program, who would walk into the office and turn the portfolios in literally a hours b/f the deadline.

Glad to know I'm not alone in having lots of work left to do. Still much to do on portfolio, plus haven't even started studying for GRE's, gotta arrange rec's...

wow, and defering, to be honest I didn't even know you could do that. anyone know which schools will allow and which won't?

and which schools are you applying to?
Right now, for me it looks like:

UT Austin
Harvard
Yale
UCLA
Berkeley
Princeton
Rice

tough competition.

I've heard that the number of schools one applies to affects the way the applicant is viewed. Albeit not significantly, of course, but in a way that sometimes it is a negative thing when the person is applying to like 10 or more schools. What do you guys think?

Princeton
UCLA
Columbia
Penn

uhh, how could they know how many schools you are applying to??

sanofiSYN: I think that if you let the schools know you're applying to a very long list (more than 8 or so, I'd say) then it could affect their opinion. I'd look at it as similar to when clients let on to their potential contractor that they're checking out more than 3 or 4 contractors: the interest in the project usually drops since they don't feel the chances are good that the client will pick them.

But: Most applications don't even ask which other schools you're applying to. Even if they do ask, there's no reason you have to list 8 schools. If you want to answer at all just answer with 2 others from your list. Pick those of comparable competetiveness so that you're not tipping them off that they're your safety school or your longshot.
If you are going to apply to a long list of schools you may also be better off setting up a large pool of recommendation writers. If you ask one professor for 8 or 10 letters they'll most likely write one blanket letter (hopefully filling in the correct school's name in each) and send that everywhere. If you ask each person for only 1 or 2 then they'll be better tailored to the specific school and why you're a good match.

pvb

always turn your portfolio in before the deadline. there are too many what-ifs involved with printing, binding, computers crashing, disks getting erased, and spilling coffee on it. believe me, i've done both, and its not worth it. don't skimp on quality, get it done right, but get it in as soon as you can. if its late, likely it won't even be considered especially if they have 500 applications to go through, and they will.

every spring at arizona state, upperclassmen used to sit outside the main office to see which second year students would miss the 5:00 deadline for turning their portfolios in to get into third year. i mean, there would literally be people crying and pounding on the door on their hands and knees, and the profs were just ruthless about it. nobody who missed the deadline was allowed to stay in architecture school the next year. no exaggeration. this image in and of itself is enough to make me get my shit in on time.

pvb

always turn your portfolio in before the deadline. there are too many what-ifs involved with printing, binding, computers crashing, disks getting erased, and spilling coffee on it. believe me, its not worth it. don't skimp on quality, get it done right, but get it in as soon as you can. if its late, likely it won't even be considered especially if they have 500 applications to go through, and they will.

every spring at arizona state, upperclassmen used to sit outside the main office to see which second year students would miss the 5:00 deadline for turning their portfolios in to get into third year. i mean, there would literally be people crying and pounding on the door on their hands and knees, and the profs were just ruthless about it. nobody who missed the deadline was allowed to stay in architecture school the next year. no exaggeration. this image in and of itself is enough to make me get my shit in on time.

Schools know how many total applications you are putting in by the College Board scores you submit. It shows to which other schools that you've submitted them to.

sanofiSYN: I've done admissions at 2 schools and the GRE score reports that the schools get don't have the names of the other schools to which the student has applied. This only shows up on the student's copy of the score report.
Also, the admissions committee rarely looks at the actual score reports, because the office staff puts each student's scores onto summary sheet for that student and into a spreadsheet that compares all applicants.
In any case, if you're particularly worried about your score reports tipping someone off then don't use the option to select any schools to report to when you're filling out the forms to take the GRE. Just use the separate forms to send them to each school AFTER you've taken the test and received your scores. (This option is slightly more expensive - and in my opinion unecessary, for the reasons I discussed above.)

no worries dillup. i've also done nothing, although all this talk has me (almost) motivated to get my ass in gear. i'm planning on keeping it rather east coast myself:

harvard
mit
princeton
yale
virginia

>important factors for admission>

1. portfolio
2. statement
3. reccs.
4. ug/previous study
5. gpa
6. gre
7. work experience

agree/disagree?

I disagree - slightly.

I would rank portfolio and recommendations roughly equal - and in some cases I'd say the recommendations can be even more important than portfolio.

Work experience is a tricky one. If you get good portfolio material out of it then it can be critical - but I think that "good" material is more often graphic design, exhibition design, illustration, etc. than specifically architecture related. Having a lot of intern-level fairly mundane architecture firm stuff (for instance CAD details of something fairly common/non-innovative) in your portfolio can actually hurt you. The same is usually true of your plan sketches for your uncle's rumpus room.

GPA and GRE are equally unimportant - unless both are extraordinarily low, in which case it won't rule you out entirely - but you'd sure better have some indication in there of potential and of clear written communication skills (in which case your statement may be more important than usual.)

Statements are not usually more important than recommendations.

what makes for a great reccommendation?

from someone notable or from someone who has great things to say about you and your work. and obviously if you have both of those you're in good shape.

Well, it they don't have at least some great things to say about you then they probably shouldn't be writing letters for you...

The "perfect" set of recommendations might include any of:

Someone who has taught you and is very familiar with your design work - or if you don't have a design background then a faculty person with good familiarity with any type of creative work/thinking/process that you've done. A favorite studio critic is usually a good choice.

Someone who has taught you for some years, or several years apart, who can discuss your maturation/direction/potential.

Someone like an employer or mentor who can write about your leadership, brainstorming ability, problem solving skills, dispute resolution abilities.... whatever your strengths are.

Someone with some connection to the school to which you're applying. Have you had any professors who've also taught there? Any guest critics currently teaching there? Any faculty who're alums of there? Have you worked with any grads of this program? (These people will only be helpful if they actually know you pretty well and can reasonably recollect and discuss your work.) Current or recent faculty usually have more clout than alums.

A well-known architect or other person with name-recognition MAY be helpful, but ONLY if they truly know you well enough to discuss you and your work in depth. They won't necessarily be helpful if they write the same brief, impersonal "recommendation" for everybody who interned for them last summer (happens a lot.)

I agree on Ormolu's assessment. More directly, I was told that the three letters of recommendation should be as follows:

1. Someone who knows you well

2. Someone who knows your work well

3. Someone who is well known or respected in the field themself.

These are not absolutes, merely a good guideline to follow

sanofiSYN,

paper GRE is not obsolete. Most people abroad still take the paper test and some testing centers still offer paper, but only once thise year. I think in October. This a small amount of testing centers thought, so you might have to do some research to figure it out. Frankly I like the flexibility and the fact that you are in a room with other people taking a bunch of other random tests, so the stress seems a little lower.

I am still working on my list and visiting some schools in October.

As of now...

UCLA
SciArc
Parsons
MIT
Princeton

Anyone know when other open houses are?

Penn> 29 OCT
Princeton>
Yale>
Harvard>
Columbia>

pvb358, didn't you go to u of m? why would you apply to schools that don't offer advanced placement like yale and columbia? don't you think the extra year is a waste of money?

Yale offers AP, albeit limited.
Columbia has an advanced placement program as well. You begin in higher level studios.

I've done the research... or do you know something I don't?

yeah but the advanced placement is a lot harder to get into. if you want to get in, you decrease your chances by applying for ap.

i think at this point, if i get into one of those top programs, im willing to spend the extra year there, hopefully ill get a good fin.aid package

Yes, I do know something you don't. Neither one offers Advanced Placement. Call them if you wish. Yale may offer a semester if you are transferring from another M.Arch program but not from a BS in Arch. Columbia just doesn't offer it. I know their website is misleading but I assure you neither will grant AP.

Are you only applying to ivy league schools on purpose? Seems a bit limiting don't you think?

I've heard that going for AP at the GSD does hurt you - they had less than 5% acceptance for the AP program last year.

Yale has offered as much as a year of advanced standing in recent years (since the advent of the Stern administration) - but not in all years, and only to a very small number of students. Prior to 1998 there was no advanced standing possibility at all, but since then they've offered it occasionally - it seems to depend on there being "holes" to fill in the 2nd year class (usually this would be caused by a higher than expected dropout rate or many simultaneous leaves of absence.) As far as I know these AP spots have gone only to people who did their undergrad degrees at Princeton, Yale or UVA.

I called them and the admissions person told me what I stated in my previous post - possibly 1 semester and only transferring from M.Arch. She could have been bullshitting me though.

yale has advanced placement. a good friend of mine goes there. she did not get into the ap however, but i personally guarantee they have it, and that in and of itself is as good as gold.

Well it's possible that they aren't anticipating accepting any advanced placement people this year. As I said, this possibility seems to be very limited at Yale, and based on changing needs of each specific year. Mainly my point was that it isn't 100% impossible, and that when it does happen it seems to be somewhat dependent on having graduated from certain "feeder schools." Some of the problem at Yale with accepting AP students is that the first year Building Project is such a core part of the curriculum. If you skipped first year you'd miss that.

im applying to UCLA also...

and probably Milwaukee, where I'm from

how are princeton, sci-arc, and penn with advanced placement?

they all have 2 year AP programs.

But Princeton has a similar situation to the GSD: the admission rate of AP appllicants is even lower than entry-level applicants, and if you're judged not well enough prepared for AP placement you're not automatically considered for admission as a regular first year.

That is true. I think that once the admisisons numbers get so low you really can't count on anything. When under 5% of applicants are admitted there is no telling who will get in. There are a large number of qualified students who get turned down. It's almost on the whim of the admissions committee - either politics or whether something in your application sparks their interest independent of being technically qualified.

I heard that Princeton let in around 8 AP students for this year.

If I am a B.Arch how does AP affect me? All I know is that with a B.Arch Princeton is a 1-1/2 and Yale is two years (M.Arch II for both).

If you have a B.Arch you're usually not applying for "AP" at all - you're applying to the post-professional programs at these schools. This is usually a separate program that you apply to - even though in some cases post-pro students are mixed together in studios and other classes with 2nd and 3rd year students from the first-professional programs.
"AP" usually refers to a situation in which a person with a 4-year undergrad non-professional degree with a major in architecture would get some advanced standing for coursework completed as an undergrad. Some schools grant as much as a full year of advanced standing, whereas other schools grant waivers for individual courses (which may or may not include studios) that the student can show evidence of having taken in the past.

I've heard that AP is harder to get into, but if you can, you should because you can avoid 1 year of core. But, I've seen some really bad student in AP, and really good ones, too. So, I don't really know what's up. I just know that M.Arch.I AP is less work once you're in school than M.Arch.I.

It can be less time - but not necessarily - at some schools you're merely waived from 1st year required courses - but you still have to take the same number of credits as electives, so there's no time savings at all.

Not all schools offer any AP placements and some offer them very infrequently (see the earlier part of this discussion.) Others don't offer it at all.

If you apply for advanced standing at some schools you won't be automatically considered for admission to the regular first year - you're either admitted for advanced placement or not admitted at all.

And to reiterate: advanced placement (AP) is not the same thing as applying as a post-professional student (someone who already has a B.Arch.) In general post-pro students can only apply to pos-pro programs, while those with undergrad non-professional degrees can only apply to first-professional M.Arch programs.
I don't usually use the terms "M.Arch 1" and "M.Arch 2" - because while most schoools use the former to name their 3 or 3.5 year first-professional program and the latter to name their post-pro program there are some schools that use the terms in the reverse - and others that differentiate between M.Arch 1, M.Arch 2, and M.Arch 3 programs...

pvb358, your list of schools seem to be getting larger. If I were you, I'd apply to some nice schools and some safety schools.

btw, some of your questions, like open house dates, could be better answered by asking directly to the schools. One thing, though. I know MIT used to have this program where open house guests can camp out at current MIT students' rooms, so I'd check into that soon.

In the mean time, stop worrying about other things. Just get the portfolio made, turn in everything on time, and wait for their reply.

How much can you bench?

Alex: there's no formula anyone can give you on what your chances are to get into which schools.
It definately isn't as simple as getting As in studio. I never got a single A in studio in my life (and I actually got some very low grades in a couple of studios.) But I got into "a highly selective school" for my M.Arch. Also: there's a big difference in levels of grade inflation between various undergrad programs. I don't even think ANYONE got any As in my undergrad studios.
A lot of my M.Arch classmates also had not had stellar GPAs as undergrads. Some had far-below-average GRE scores too.
Things that make the biggest difference are: portfolio, recommendations (and like it or not it can matter WHO wrote them as much as what they say) and sometimes what school you attended as an undergrad. If previous grads of your program have gotten into the program of your choice then your chances are probably pretty good too - provided of course that those people did reasonably well once they got there. If nobody from your current school has gone to your top choice M.Arch programs in the last 5 years or so then it may mean that you've got more of an uphill battle.